Making a yard thick and green?

[WalkerMan9669]

With the average yards, that have thin grass, weeds, and some crabgrass here and there....does just fertililzing every 3 months, and seeding in the fall clear most of this up?

[MMLawn]

First of all to put down ANY Fertilizer or any other chemical here in NC you MUST be LICENSED by the State of NC. It is called an Applicators License and the program is adminstered through NCSU and again is REQUIRED or you simply cannot put down chemicals. If you do without a license it is up to a $3,000.00 Fine for evry property and time you do it. I will assume that based on your question you do not have this training or license because if you did you would know that just putting fertilizer on weeds and crabgrass will just give you more weeds and crabgrass and less grass. Those need a special herbicide to take care of them. SO get you training and then license before you even attempt this part of the business.

[Soupy]

WalkerMan9669, I would suggest getting the customer on a 6 step program (every 4-6 weeks, by anyone licensed) and have the lawn fertilized and weeds treated. It would also be a good idea to get a soil sample before seeding and make any amendments needed http://www.spectrumanalytic.com/. Depending on the condition you will probably need to over-seed the the first couple years. If the customer will allow it, I would aerate in the spring also. Get the grass seed down early in fall so that all seed germinates. You (or sub) will be applying PreEmergent the following spring and seed left behind will not germinate.

I have never gotten a thin weedy lawn thick by one seeding using the aeration/seed method.

[Steve9]

If you dont have an answer for him then move on. Worry about yourself and quit asking for everyones credentials when somebody asks a question. :realmad:

[tiedeman]

what I found out that works the best for us cool season grass people is put the lawn on a 5 step fertilization process and mow HIGH. Of course proper watering helps as well. But of course this is just basic simple procedures. There is more involved if you want a superb lawn

[MMLawn]

If you dont have an answer for him then move on. Worry about yourself and quit asking for everyones credentials when somebody asks a question. :realmad:

I did have an answer for him, that he can't do fertilization in this state and told him so that he wouldn't get his young azz in trouble since it was clear he didn't know, and since we are in a bigger city they check daily for the license. I can also see that you've been a HUGE :dizzy: help to folks on LS as you have 170 post in nearly 2 YEARS.....and while you are complaining show me ANY post where I ask for anyones credentials BUBBA!.....

[olderthandirt]

I have never gotten a thin weedy lawn thick by one seeding using the aeration/seed method.

Try a lesco renovator. I've had really good luck with them over seeding thin lawns.
Also a 5 or 6 step program with irrigation won't hurt. :D

[MMLawn]

To make your post even funnier, you ask the very same thing about your state that i was informing this young man about in his state... ;) ;)


Do you need a license to apply fertilizer in Texas? Anybody have a link to where I need to go? Ive been to the DOA site but it says nothing about fertilizer, just pest apps.

[Soupy]

Try a lesco renovator. I've had really good luck with them over seeding thin lawns.
Also a 5 or 6 step program with irrigation won't hurt. :D

Do you charge more for this method then Aeration? I have thought about using a slit seeder, but I am more then happy to charge them to do it over, and over again year, after year. Plus I would have to do manual labor rather just sit on my but pulling the aerator :). Actually I have had good luck with the aeration method but not on really thin weedy lawns. They come in good but not what I would call thick. I aerate the crap out of them when seeding. That is the great thing about pull behinds. You can afford to beat the crap out of the lawn and still profit.

I aerate, 1/2 seed, aerate some more, and then apply rest of seed. I might rent a slice seeder for my lawn (just moved) and see how that works. I have never used one. I don't think I have ever seen anyone but a home owner using then either. It seems like the lawns I have seen them used on have lines of grass growing. But I never paid much attention to those lawns (not lawns I work on) later to see how the final results turned out. I just remember driving by lawns and seeing lines of grass growing in very thin lawns.

[Soupy]

what I found out that works the best for us cool season grass people is put the lawn on a 5 step fertilization process and mow HIGH. Of course proper watering helps as well. But of course this is just basic simple procedures. There is more involved if you want a superb lawn

Are you dealing with mostly Bluegrass? Bluegrass used to be popular in my area but now everyone wants Fescue for better drought tolerance.

[turf hokie]

I can also see that you've been a HUGE :dizzy: help to folks on LS as you have 170 post in nearly 2 YEARS.....

Does this mean that those of us with less than 1,000 posts are less helpful?

Or do we just answer what we know? As opposed to throwing answers out willy-nilly.

Or does this mean that we just have other things to do besides sit if front of our computers 3 hours a day?

[green with envy]

I too am sick and tired of all of the "Use the search feature " and "you must be certified " response to all of the questions asked anymore.

I don't mind seeing some of the same questions asked again. We have may new people who could give different opinions on these old questions and if every question has been asked this site would just be about the new charges bobbygedd is adding to his contracts. :waving: .

As far as certification goes.... Here in Michigan the Applicator must be certified to do applications for a Licensed Company. Therefore I am Certified and I also had to get my Company licensed to apply Pesticides.
That being said: am I an expert? Hell no! There is always more to learn and questions to ask.

But this site is for Turf professionals and the question at the start of this thread is something I would expect from a customer not a LCO.
That is the most turf grass 101 question I have ever seen.
I am not trying to be a smart ass but Oh MY God!

Check our the Scotts Lawns Book "your guide to a beautiful yard"
It is a very good book packed with basic info on turf, how and why it grows and how to care for it. I would suggest that anyone who has basic turf questions to pick this up it is a good starter reference tool.
Also stay on this site learn more and help others who are just starting out.

Oh yeah get certified. :dizzy:

Mike

[tjgray]

I too am sick and tired of all of the "Use the search feature " and "you must be certified " response to all of the questions asked anymore.Mike

Good Morning All :)

My question is would you rather no one tell the daily poster who seeks chemical application information that they need to be certified to apply chemicals?

I do understand that the constant you have to be licensed post get old and ugly quick but darn it seems their sure are alot of folks out there who are not licensed that want information, and have no clue that they need to be licensed even when there is a topic regarding the subject at the beginning of this forum.......

As an example over in commercial lawncare there is this kiddo *he is 19* who is bidding a large comcast facility (the biggest in the country). They want it to be fertilized five times and all the shrubs and a few small trees maintained. Now I don't know about you but this tells me that he probably needs a license and because of his age I suspect he truly doesn't have the experience, knowledge, or the license required to take on such a property *and oh just so you get a better picture they want him to take on the job without a contract*

Now I am tempted to ask him if he is licensed and knowledgeable enough to take on such a task BUT well see above *I don't want to start another are you licensed war :) *

So what do you do? I see this kiddo setting himself up for a big mess and as a professional in this industry I feel I should HELP him before he does something he is going to regret BUT well see the above again :)

Now you may ask yourself whats the worse that can happen? SO some kiddo gets fined, messes up some turf and ornamentals maybe, and loses a customer but I see a much bigger picture. I see this hurting the industry as a whole and something we as professionals who make our living in chemical applications should definitely be concerned with.

In closing I would also like to say this reply can also be in response to the my soap box thread but darn it how many times does it need to be said :)

On this beautiful awesome sunshiney day here in Texas I am sending warm wishes that some of it head you guys up norths way :waving:

[green with envy]

Tara, I think you need to read the rest of my post where I clarified my comment.

One big problem is that we will always have people who are not certified or licensed doing apps. But why does every post have to hammer in the point?

After the first reply goes after the lecense issue why cant that thread die or start a discussion for the licensed people who may have the same question or curiosity?

Mike

[tjgray]

But this site is for Turf professionals and the question at the start of this thread is something I would expect from a customer not a LCO. That is the most turf grass 101 question I have ever seen. I am not trying to be a smart ass but Oh MY God! Mike

Hey Mike :)

I realize that we are both thinking along the same lines and I realize that most here are pretty darn weary of the same ol you have to be licensed to apply chemicals post. My question to all was what do you do about it.....ya think maybe a please read this before posting thread would help?

And what do you think about the above example? How do you help someone to not get into something they are going to regret by telling them they need more knowledge and experince without offending them?

[tiedeman]

Are you dealing with mostly Bluegrass? Bluegrass used to be popular in my area but now everyone wants Fescue for better drought tolerance.

most lawns up here are bluegrass and fescue.

[jajwrigh]

To make your post even funnier, you ask the very same thing about your state that i was informing this young man about in his state... ;) ;)

Pot: "Hey kettle your black!"
Kettle: :rolleyes:

[tjgray]

After reading some of his other post ......

Trimming Leland Cyprus Trees

I recieved a call from a woman who has 14 leland cyprus trees.......and she wants the top 1/3 of the tree cut off or trimmed. Can anyone help me out with how i cut it? (Straight across? diagonal?) And also what to charge? I have no idea how to do this.....and yes i know, i should probally have training and stuff like that, but i am going to try and attempt it anyway. PLease help.....thanks guys


It is very obvious to me that this kid has absolutely NO respect for the industry and will only wind up messing himself up.

Walker Man if you truly want to be successful in the green industry I suggest you start showing some respect for it and take some of the good advice that others here on LS have given you.

[Garth]

Soupy nailed it. Aerate, top-dress, reseed, fertilize (w/ license) and pre-M( w/ license)

[Garth]

Are you dealing with mostly Bluegrass? Bluegrass used to be popular in my area but now everyone wants Fescue for better drought tolerance.
Smoked that once when I was a kid...ended up in Amsterdam with a sax player named Anna. :blush:

[olderthandirt]

Try a lesco renovator. I've had really good luck with them over seeding thin lawns.
Also a 5 or 6 step program with irrigation won't hurt.

I have never used one. I don't think I have ever seen anyone but a home owner using then either. It seems like the lawns I have seen them used on have lines of grass growing. But I never paid much attention to those lawns (not lawns I work on) later to see how the final results turned out. I just remember driving by lawns and seeing lines of grass growing in very thin lawns.

Soupy
I use a renovator which is a little different from a slice seeder, It dethatches and slice seeds, with the Lesco models it sort of works as an over seeder as it drops the seed not only in the slits but over the entire path of the machine. I have had great success using it for thin weedy lawns along with a 5 step program, or just by itself as long as the seed gets enough water to germinate. I run a checker board pattern to ensure good coverage and have never seen the lines you described unless the lawn was disc, or straw was crimped when it was installed. The Renovator is not a cheap machine at almost 5k but its been one of my most useful tools and highly profitable also

[timturf]

most lawns up here are bluegrass and fescue.

Which fescue?

Wel is it K31 tall fescue, tt tall fescue, creeping red fescue, chewing fescue, blue fescue, hard fescue, or sheep fescue? Did I miss any?

So many times people talk about fescue, when most of the time they are referring to tall fescue! We need to be more specific when talking about fescue! Just one of my pet peeves
tim

[Macvols]

Fine fescue!!
LOL
Just Kidding
MIke

[MIDWEST25]

You guys should check out an aerater called The Plugr.You can overseed thinner lawns with this thing due to the amount of plugs it pulls compared to the ryan.Self-Propelled without a transmission or chain drive.Lowest maintenance machine I've ever seen.Rock Solid is the name of the company;in lincoln nebraska.They are on the net

[boxoffire]

So what's my best process for a fescue lawn in NC right now. Aerate lawn, then overseed and tell him to use his sprinkler system regularly over a couple of weeks, and then put out fertilizer (right for his lawn)? Then have him water again for a couple of weeks? I've heard fertilizing fescue after March 15th and before August is not a good thing. Is this true? This is for North Carolina keep in mind. Thanks. Oh, also have read to avoid core aeration until Fall for best results too.

[Soupy]

So what's my best process for a fescue lawn in NC right now. Aerate lawn, then overseed and tell him to use his sprinkler system regularly over a couple of weeks, and then put out fertilizer (right for his lawn)? Then have him water again for a couple of weeks? I've heard fertilizing fescue after March 15th and before August is not a good thing. Is this true? This is for North Carolina keep in mind. Thanks. Oh, also have read to avoid core aeration until Fall for best results too.

What you just described would be one way of doing it. Yes, you can fertilize Fescue after March 15th and before August.

Depending on certain conditions, Fall is generally the best time for aeration, but you can aerate spring, summer and fall (some people do both spring and fall which is best yet). As long as the turf is active then you can aerate. Seeding is best in fall too, but can be done now if you do not have a real bad crabgrass problem. You can not apply a pre-emergent for crabgrass and seed in the spring. The other bad thing about seeding in spring is that the new grass roots have a hard time surviving a drought come July. If you have irrigation or water regularly then this isn't a huge problem. But typically you get root development in the fall. I killed and tilled my parents back lawn in June (put a pool in) and got some of the best growth I have ever had. I contribute this to the fact I followed my own directions and didn't ignore them like most customers do. Oh when I aerate/seed I pound the crap out of the lawn. I will aerate about 4 times changing directions each time, and I also apply half seed after the second pass. I use a tow behind, so this isn't a problem for me. I also do smaller lawns, on larger lawns I tend to only do double aerations unless the area is really dense. Or you could Aerate and then slit seed, or use what Mac uses.

So If you don't have a crabgrass problem and someone will continue to water then go right ahead and seed and fertilize. Control what ever weeds about 6 weeks after good growth starts. Wait for the soil temps to reach 60-65 before seeding too. Depending on how dense the current turf is now depends a lot on which methods of seeding to use. I personally like to Aerate/seed if you have at least 50% turf now. This method does more then just give the seed soil contact, it also loosen the soil for the roots to develop easier and it allows for nutrients to penetrate easier. Those are all things that will give your new seed job a boost.

Most importantly is to make sure the customer follows your watering directions. I can never seem to get them to listen, but the ones that do get the reward of a nice lawn.

[landbud]

Mmlawn You Are Truly A Jackass ,now For Steve9 I Like You

[Frank Fescue]

up here new customers always call about their "crabgrass" when its usually tall fescue or zoysia grass going dormant in October.

[ccash]

First of all to put down ANY Fertilizer or any other chemical here in NC you MUST be LICENSED by the State of NC. It is called an Applicators License and the program is adminstered through NCSU and again is REQUIRED or you simply cannot put down chemicals. If you do without a license it is up to a $3,000.00 Fine for evry property and time you do it. I will assume that based on your question you do not have this training or license because if you did you would know that just putting fertilizer on weeds and crabgrass will just give you more weeds and crabgrass and less grass. Those need a special herbicide to take care of them. SO get you training and then license before you even attempt this part of the business.

actually you only need the license to apply restricted use pesticides,not fertilizer,or if you have somone in the company licensed you can work under theirs.

[Runner]

Mmlawn You Are Truly A Jackass ,now For Steve9 I Like You
Actually, Mmlawn has been a successful and contributing member on this forum and others for years now. he has helped many people considerably over the years. As far as Steve9, h hasn't posted in around the last 2 years, and like so many others that have come and gone, is likely out of business and moved on to other things,..otherwise he would still be a contributing member here. So much for judging people or having a good judge of character.....:rolleyes:



actually you only need the license to apply restricted use pesticides,not fertilizer,or if you have somone in the company licensed you can work under theirs.

Actually, this applies to any and all pesticides...general use included...not just RUP's. Also, it is a bit more than just having someone in the company licensed. The company itself must be licensed. Just a bit of FYI. :)

[ccash]

Actually, this applies to any and all pesticides...general use included...not just RUP's. Also, it is a bit more than just having someone in the company licensed. The company itself must be licensed. Just a bit of FYI. :)[/QUOTE]

not the case with ferts, sorry pal or anything you can buy as a homeowner, that is here in nc.

[Smitty58]

As soon as I read the question and before I scrolled down to see the responses I said to myself, someone will say "you must have a license" and what do ya know the VERY FIRST response was that. Why can't you ask a question here without the the lawn police worrying about you having all the legal crap to do a job. And I also am sick of response to "do a search", maybe a guy did a search but wanted to hear from others as well. There are new members joining all the time so looking at old posts are fine but new ones would be great also.

If someone posted a question about operating a vehicle should the response be "remember you must be licensed to operate that vehicle".
I love this site and have learned a lot but some people really take themselves too seriously, just answer the stupid question and leave out the lectures.
Oh wait a minute, I don't have thousands of posts so I must be a moron!

[lawnservice]

If someone posted a question about operating a vehicle should the response be "remember you must be licensed to operate that vehicle".


no, first ask if he/she is properly insured :waving:

[Victor]

Actually, this applies to any and all pesticides...general use included...not just RUP's. Also, it is a bit more than just having someone in the company licensed. The company itself must be licensed. Just a bit of FYI. :)

not the case with ferts, sorry pal or anything you can buy as a homeowner, that is here in nc.[/QUOTE]

Ccash... If you call your local department of agriculture, I'd bet you big money they would tell you that your statement is false. I'll bet you that your state requires an applicator to be licensed if ANY pesticides (herbicides) are to be applied for hire.

That's the way it is here in Ohio, Florida, Michigan and any other state that I know of.

[JFF]

Well, since someone pointed out that you have to pay the gov-ment bribe to get a licence I wont go too far into the subject, except to say you might find a subcontractor to service your accounts for a flat fee. I used to have guys approach me all the time.

A more general statement:

3 things ya gotta have for good grass: Sun (in varying amounts based on turf type) soil, and water. Missing any one and you will struggle.

Bare ground in sunny areas can be an indicator of another issue. It might be compaction or a micronutrient deficency. Could be ph. Fairy ring, etc.

Soil tests are pretty valuable tools, and we can have them done for free 'round here.

[JFF]

not the case with ferts, sorry pal or anything you can buy as a homeowner, that is here in nc.

Ccash... If you call your local department of agriculture, I'd bet you big money they would tell you that your statement is false. I'll bet you that your state requires an applicator to be licensed if ANY pesticides (herbicides) are to be applied for hire.

That's the way it is here in Ohio, Florida, Michigan and any other state that I know of

Even Arkansas...

[WALKER LANDSCAPE]

As soon as I read the question and before I scrolled down to see the responses I said to myself, someone will say "you must have a license" and what do ya know the VERY FIRST response was that. Why can't you ask a question here without the the lawn police worrying about you having all the legal crap to do a job. And I also am sick of response to "do a search", maybe a guy did a search but wanted to hear from others as well. There are new members joining all the time so looking at old posts are fine but new ones would be great also.

If someone posted a question about operating a vehicle should the response be "remember you must be licensed to operate that vehicle".
I love this site and have learned a lot but some people really take themselves too seriously, just answer the stupid question and leave out the lectures.
Oh wait a minute, I don't have thousands of posts so I must be a moron!
I agree SMITT
I have this many how smart am I.:hammerhead:

[TBL3232]

2 lbs. per 1000 of KN3 monthly

2 lbs. per 1000 of Urea monthly

1 oz/1000 of PRIMO MAXX monthly

10 lbs. per 1000 of Ironite monthly

..........that should make it thick and green

[ccash]

Ccash... If you call your local department of agriculture, I'd bet you big money they would tell you that your statement is false. I'll bet you that your state requires an applicator to be licensed if ANY pesticides (herbicides) are to be applied for hire.

That's the way it is here in Ohio, Florida, Michigan and any other state that I know of.[/QUOTE]

this aint ohio and i volunteer at the local ag extension office.

[bfstrider]

When I inquired about license in NC I called the N.C. Dept. of Agriculture in Raleigh. I was told that if you apply anything, pesticide/herbicide any where but your own property you have to be licensed. This applies to any store bought(Lowes, Wal-Mart,Home Depot) products. You do not have to have a license to apply just fertilizer.

[MOW PRO LAWN SERVICE]

As soon as I read the question and before I scrolled down to see the responses I said to myself, someone will say "you must have a license" and what do ya know the VERY FIRST response was that. Why can't you ask a question here without the the lawn police worrying about you having all the legal crap to do a job. And I also am sick of response to "do a search", maybe a guy did a search but wanted to hear from others as well. There are new members joining all the time so looking at old posts are fine but new ones would be great also.

If someone posted a question about operating a vehicle should the response be "remember you must be licensed to operate that vehicle".
I love this site and have learned a lot but some people really take themselves too seriously, just answer the stupid question and leave out the lectures.
Oh wait a minute, I don't have thousands of posts so I must be a moron!
Good post the lawn police funny.

[Victor]

When I inquired about license in NC I called the N.C. Dept. of Agriculture in Raleigh. I was told that if you apply anything, pesticide/herbicide any where but your own property you have to be licensed. This applies to any store bought(Lowes, Wal-Mart,Home Depot) products. You do not have to have a license to apply just fertilizer.

There you go Ccash. The governing body of your state (for professional applicators) says you DO have to have a license to apply ANY pesticide for hire. My point has been reinforced.

[Ric]

Over Fertilization and Over water will build a Thick lawn, Maybe even too thick.

Most states you don't need a Certification or License to apply Water and Fertilizer.

[ccash]

yes but not fert. god I hate Ohio.

[LwnmwrMan22]

I wanted to jump in on this thread... hopefully new guys in MN will read this.

You need to have a license for both spraying pesticides / herbicides / aquacides, anything with a "cide" basically.

You ALSO need a license for fertilizing. However, there is no test, you just send in your, I believe off the top of my head, $150 to the MN Department of Ag.

This gets you a piece of paper that says you can apply fertilizer. NOT pesticides / herbicides / anything with a "cide", just FERTILIZER.