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View Full Version : Ford Powerstroke or Dodge Cummins?


WalkerMan9669
03-23-2005, 03:07 AM
Im thinking about buying a truck, and am seriously thinking about getting a 1992 Ford F-250 Diesel with 260,000 miles on it for $2500. The truck is in excellent condition to be this old. But is that still a good price? And would u go with this? or check into a dodge cummins

Go for the Green
03-23-2005, 08:12 AM
You gotta love anything with the name Power Stroke!!

:cool2: :cool2:

Bunton Guy
03-23-2005, 08:17 AM
I own 3 powerstrokes and 1 non powerstroke (89 f-250) Love them all. Very minimul troubles out of any of them it at all. For landscape maintenance I think the ford is the ideal truck. Don't get me wrong the dodge is a great truck...I beleive it gets better fuel milage than the powerstroke. The cummins gets around 17-18mph and the powerstroke will get around 12-16mpg. This is with my experience. Check out www.thedieselstop.com if you have any questions.

Jpocket
03-23-2005, 08:21 AM
a 92' is not a powerstroke it's a 7.3 Navistar. the Powerstroke didn't come out till like late 93' or maybe 94'. These are still great motors without the turbo, we had one back in 96' it was just as torquey as a stroker.

Blades of Steel
03-23-2005, 08:39 AM
Why RAM it !!!!!!!!!!!!!! When you can get it STROKED!!!!!!!!!!! :D

rodfather
03-23-2005, 09:15 AM
I love our F-350 PSD's.

Smalltimer1
03-23-2005, 10:00 AM
a 92' is not a powerstroke it's a 7.3 Navistar. the Powerstroke didn't come out till like late 93' or maybe 94'. These are still great motors without the turbo, we had one back in 96' it was just as torquey as a stroker.

The Power Stroke was introduced in November of '94. This was when there was a choice of 3 diesels in the F-series. You could still get the 7.3L IDI, 7.3L IDIT, and the then newly developed 7.3L Power Stroke. Throw a Banks Sidewinder turbo system on a IDI 7.3L and it will make similar power to a stock PSD.

As for the question at hand, I would request to see the maintenance records. Also I would check the SCA level immediately. This will tell you all you need to know. If there is a low level of SCA in the coolant, run for the hills-cavitation is eminent!! Also, if possible, ask to have the oil tested, take a sample after driving it for 30 minutes, draw a sample, and send it to Blackstone Labs, the oil analysis will also tell you what kind of shape the engine is in.

ztoro
03-23-2005, 11:07 AM
I'd rather be stroked than rammed.....

Madstriper
03-23-2005, 11:40 AM
Thats correct, its not a PSD, but it is a good engine.
For a good cheap truck it sounds good, but you need to find
out what kind of shape the engine is in. If the coolant hasnt
been treated, the cylinder walls(I think thats right) can corrode
and you will have to have the cylinders sleeved. Not real cheap
unless you plan on keeping the truck for many years.

Smalltimer1
03-23-2005, 12:24 PM
Thats correct, its not a PSD, but it is a good engine.
For a good cheap truck it sounds good, but you need to find
out what kind of shape the engine is in. If the coolant hasnt
been treated, the cylinder walls(I think thats right) can corrode
and you will have to have the cylinders sleeved. Not real cheap
unless you plan on keeping the truck for many years.

That is called cavitation, it is caused by the sidewalls getting brittle from the heat and flaking away. The SCA additive solves this by helping to distribute the heat better, by moving the heat elsewhere in the engine.

Again, check the SCA level in the coolant, and have an oil analysis run on it.

mrusk
03-23-2005, 11:15 PM
I just picked up a 05 cummins last night! Only driven it the 5 miles home from the dealer! Didn't take it out today because i didn't want it to get all dirty in the snow. lol If the weather breaks tommoror, i'll put some miles on it to break it in, before i go pickup my enclosed trailer!

Matt

bettergrass
03-23-2005, 11:44 PM
id rather be cummin then strokin

jtkplc
03-24-2005, 12:34 AM
id rather be cummin then strokin

I second that

Smalltimer1
03-24-2005, 02:38 AM
id rather be cummin then strokin

I'd rather be on the road than waiting for a new transmission.... :rolleyes:

Smalltimer1
03-24-2005, 02:43 AM
Here's some interesting reading for all you Dodge guys......enjoy! :D

http://www.columbia.edu/~gwo2001/dodge.html

malojeer
03-24-2005, 03:42 AM
I have 01 dodge 2500 with cummins HO. I get 22 MPG on hwy and not much less in city. A buddy has 93 dodge and gets better than mine with over 300,000 miles.

vanguard
03-24-2005, 05:53 AM
I had a 01 2500, the Cummins is a great motor, the only problem is the crapy Dodge thats wraped around it! :dizzy: I wish Ford would stop selling Cummins engines to Dodge and put them in the F series! :cool:

anteater6788
03-24-2005, 10:31 AM
Ford is not selling Cummins engines to anybody. For a while Ford owned a small percentage of Cummin's stock but they sold it all several years ago so they have nothing at all to do with Cummins anymore. I know a guy who works at Cummin's who said that they approached both Ford and Chevy to put the 5.9L in their trucks back in the mid 80's but they both refused so they went to Dodge who also turned them down but finally agreed to try it if Cummin's would do all the R&D work on it. I am a Ford guy and our farm is powered by mostly International diesel engines but I recently bought a '99 2500 with the Cummin's, I felt that the engine was enough better than a Powerstroke to make up for the rest of the truck being slightly lower quality than the Ford. Almost every farm equipment company has tried putting a V-8 diesel in a tractor at some point and none of them turned out very good compared to their I-6 counterparts with the exception of maybe a few Cats. The V-8s seem to do okay in trucks where they are not under heavy loads all the time but I'll stick with an I-6.

jsr2741
03-24-2005, 04:21 PM
I'd rather be on the road than waiting for a new transmission.... :rolleyes:

Yeah, those Fords are now having trouble with their tranny's. Glad you've seen the light Smalltimer.

All that negative reading on the Dieselstop finally help convince you eh. :p

ztoro
03-24-2005, 04:38 PM
Headed into 2004, the F-Series had been America's top-selling automobile for 22 consecutive years--and there's no reason to believe it won't finish on top again this year. In the first six months of 2004, the F-Series outsold the second best-selling vehicle, General Motors' (NYSE:GM - News) Chevrolet Silverado pickup, by more than 100,000 models.

ztoro
03-24-2005, 04:45 PM
"F250 - ITS BIG ITS BRAWNY AND ITS THE BEST TOWING TRUCK OUT OF THE GROUP"

http://motortrend.com/roadtests/pickup/112_0409_bigtrucks/index.html

Smalltimer1
03-24-2005, 08:08 PM
Yeah, those Fords are now having trouble with their tranny's. Glad you've seen the light Smalltimer.

All that negative reading on the Dieselstop finally help convince you eh. :p

Naaa I was referring to Dodge transmissions actually, the Fords only go bad when they are abused. We got burned with a Dodge tranny once won't make that mistake again. Had the truck less than a month from the showroom and it burned up.

BCSteel
03-25-2005, 02:02 AM
Im thinking about buying a truck, and am seriously thinking about getting a 1992 Ford F-250 Diesel with 260,000 miles on it for $2500. The truck is in excellent condition to be this old. But is that still a good price? And would u go with this? or check into a dodge cummins

I have a '94 Ford idi turbo and my old boss had a '91 Dodge w/ I-6. The dodge had much more torque hands down. My ford has been nothing but trouble, his dodge was nothing but trouble, but at least it had more power.

Lawnworks
03-25-2005, 08:59 AM
I have owned about 10 diesel trucks in my short life, and I would have to say I would stay away from trucks that have over 200k on them unless they have real good maintenance records or you personally know the guy that is selling it. And yes the Cummins is a better motor hands down, even the ford guys know that.

lawnandplow42
03-25-2005, 10:03 AM
overal i prefer chevy. but out of your choices i'd go with the ford. this is because all i've heard is bad news about dodge/cummins transmissions. The cummins is a good motor, but u need a good transmission to get the power to the wheels.

Lawnworks
03-25-2005, 01:05 PM
Ford transmission don't last past 100k either.

Smalltimer1
03-25-2005, 01:21 PM
Ford transmission don't last past 100k either.

WRONG! I've seen numerous Ford transmissions make it past 200k. This is a common misconception by ignorant people blowing their bad experience out of proportion. What kills the E40D/4R100 is heat. From my experience, the E40D/4R100 is better on the road than in a delivery type application.

Another thing is that I know a bunch of people that don't wait for the truck to stop before they shift into drive or reverse. This causes a lot of trouble as well.

Ignorance causes most of these problems, and then the whiners get on the computer and complain about it.

Smalltimer1
03-25-2005, 01:26 PM
I have owned about 10 diesel trucks in my short life, and I would have to say I would stay away from trucks that have over 200k on them unless they have real good maintenance records or you personally know the guy that is selling it. And yes the Cummins is a better motor hands down, even the ford guys know that.

The Cummins has no true advantage over the Power Stroke other than a 1/2mpg. I have seen numerous ads in the paper for Dodge Cummins with less than 200k with "rebuilt Cummins diesel" in the description. Doesn't say a whole lot to me. After you replace a few injectors, lift pumps, transfer pumps, and timing sets, you'll know what I'm talking about. :rolleyes:

Lawnworks
03-25-2005, 07:22 PM
Do you even own a diesel? Come on man. Don't act like you know what the hell you are talking about because you look stuff on the internet. Get some real world experience. I have built three cummins motors for hp from the ground up. I have three diesel trucks right now. don't act like I don't have any experience w/ diesels. One of my cummins has 276k w/ NO PROBLEMS. Any truck can be abused and need a rebuild. Powerstrokes could not even be rebuilt till a couple years ago. They were/are throw away motors. Go look on ebay and see how burnt powerjokes there on there. I think they are both good motors, but cummins is by far superior. Why the hell don't you see people putting powerstrokes into dodges?? I am not against Fords, in fact I am thinking about buying a F450 crew cab, but I sure wish there was a cummins option.

Randy J
03-25-2005, 09:35 PM
The Cummins has no true advantage over the Power Stroke other than a 1/2mpg. I have seen numerous ads in the paper for Dodge Cummins with less than 200k with "rebuilt Cummins diesel" in the description. Doesn't say a whole lot to me. After you replace a few injectors, lift pumps, transfer pumps, and timing sets, you'll know what I'm talking about. :rolleyes:

I've owned 1 F350 Powerstroke truck, albeit not that long. In the short time I owned it, I had to replace the leaking fuel pump. The previous owner had already replaced the glowplugs, glowplug relay, dualmass flywheel, and turbo. That was with less than 120,000 miles. Between me and my father we've owned 4 Dodges with Cummins motors. We replaced nothing on those trucks. On my '98 I went over 160,000 miles, with an automatic transmission, and had absolutely zero problems. I got around 17 - 18 mpg combined city/highway, with oversized tires. Stock vs. stock, or enhanced vs. enhanced, I'd take the Cummins anyday over the Powerstroke for reliability, endurance, fuel mileage, and pulling power. The Powerstroke is a fine engine, but it is not in a league with the I6 Cummins. The Ford is a fine truck, but I'll take the Dodge w/ Cummins anyday.

Travis Followell
03-25-2005, 10:50 PM
Smalltimer, Dodge transmissions are not as bad as you think. Just because you had bad luck with one doesn't make every single one of them bad. if that was the case then no one would buy dodges and I don't know about where you live but here there are a lot of Dodges on the road. Just as many as Fords and Chevy's. In 2003 Dodge redesigned their transmissions and came out with the 48 re and there have been very few problems with it. It's a lot better transmission than the old 47re used with the Cummins in 2002 and down. I think the new Dodge transmissions would hold up just as good as any other auto transmission.

malojeer
03-26-2005, 01:01 AM
My Dodge 2500 has a 6 speed manual.Zero problems. seems the automatics are the ones with more trouble. I've been a Diesel Mechanic for 17 yrs. and recently got out because of a bad back. In my experience the new powerstrokes are having a lot of electrical and injection problems. The new chevy Duramax is having major trouble with heads in 30,000 mile range. Friend has one and been to shop 4 times with head problems.

Travis Followell
03-26-2005, 09:00 AM
The Duramax's is also having problems with the flywheels breaking.

Smalltimer1
03-26-2005, 03:51 PM
Do you even own a diesel? Come on man. Don't act like you know what the hell you are talking about because you look stuff on the internet. Get some real world experience. I have built three cummins motors for hp from the ground up. I have three diesel trucks right now. don't act like I don't have any experience w/ diesels. One of my cummins has 276k w/ NO PROBLEMS. Any truck can be abused and need a rebuild. Powerstrokes could not even be rebuilt till a couple years ago. They were/are throw away motors. Go look on ebay and see how burnt powerjokes there on there. I think they are both good motors, but cummins is by far superior. Why the hell don't you see people putting powerstrokes into dodges?? I am not against Fords, in fact I am thinking about buying a F450 crew cab, but I sure wish there was a cummins option.


Yes I work on them at the farm.

1987 Chevy 70 Cat 3208/Road Ranger
1975 John Deere 4230 Quad Range Diesel
2001 John Deere 5205 SyncReverse Diesel

Had a International Loadstar with the Cummins--worst diesel ever put in a truck. Went through numerous injector pumps and always combatting fuel leaks. Got smart and got a Cat diesel, the repair bills almost disappeared then.

Power Strokes are not throw aways, I drove one a while back with 800k on the original engine. Talk to any of the loggers and OTR drivers around here and they'll tell you Cummins are disposable engines. Most prefer Cats and there are people that like Detroits.

Actually I have seen several non-turbo 7.3's put in Dodges, easy to do because of the mechanical control and no electronics. The reason you don't see PSD's in Dodges is because of the amount of electrical fab up required. The Cummins put in Fords are 6BTA's with out electronics. I have heard of one 24v Cummins put in a Ford, but the cost was so enormous that you'd never get the money back out.

Look around at medium duty trucks, International engines are by far the best. The DT-466 started off rough in the late 70's but has now been refined to be the best MD diesel out. The same goes for the HT-570. The Power Stroke T444E was also one of the best out, its only downfall was emissions. In the Class 8 OTR trucks, Cats rule the roads. Cummins are base or discounted, while Cats are the top option available. Power Stroke trucks also retain higher resale value than Cummins. Wonder why?

I took my mother's Dodge Intrepid into the Dodge dealer for oil change/filter yesterday afternoon, and was talking to a salesman about the diesel trucks, and asked about the automatic transmissions, he said that they were instructed not to talk about the autos unless the customer mentioned it, he ended up telling me that the bugs are still not out of the 48RE.

Lawnworks
03-26-2005, 07:17 PM
Power Strokes are not throw aways, I drove one a while back with 800k on the original engine. Talk to any of the loggers and OTR drivers around here and they'll tell you Cummins are disposable engines. Most prefer Cats and there are people that like Detroits.

Umm yes they are. They are too expensive to rebuild. Ask any qualified mechanic. Cummins are disposable? What? I have built 3 for far less than the cost of a new one. Parts are readily available. Perhaps you should look up "disposable" in the dictionary. Logger and OTR drivers all have 6-cylinder diesels in their big rigs... why would they like a V8 diesel engine. Torque is a beautiful thing, and torque is 6-cylinder motor's specialty.

Actually I have seen several non-turbo 7.3's put in Dodges, easy to do because of the mechanical control and no electronics. The reason you don't see PSD's in Dodges is because of the amount of electrical fab up required. The Cummins put in Fords are 6BTA's with out electronics. I have heard of one 24v Cummins put in a Ford, but the cost was so enormous that you'd never get the money back out.

Show me a powerstroke in a dodge! Post a picture!

Look around at medium duty trucks, International engines are by far the best. The DT-466 started off rough in the late 70's but has now been refined to be the best MD diesel out. The same goes for the HT-570. The Power Stroke T444E was also one of the best out, its only downfall was emissions. In the Class 8 OTR trucks, Cats rule the roads. Cummins are base or discounted, while Cats are the top option available. Power Stroke trucks also retain higher resale value than Cummins. Wonder why?

This is purely your opinion which is frankly misguided.

I took my mother's Dodge Intrepid into the Dodge dealer for oil change/filter yesterday afternoon, and was talking to a salesman about the diesel trucks, and asked about the automatic transmissions, he said that they were instructed not to talk about the autos unless the customer mentioned it, he ended up telling me that the bugs are still not out of the 48RE.

Hey man, your brand loyalty is mind boggling. You can't even admit Powerstrokes have problems at all other than a cam sensor problem.

Do you, yourself actually own a diesel??? Not your daddy's diesel... if not I don't see how your opinion could be worth the crap on the bottom of my shoe.

Planet Landscaping
03-26-2005, 07:31 PM
Powerstrokes here. :waving:

mrusk
03-26-2005, 07:39 PM
Lawnworks- Don't waste your time aruging with small timer. Everytime a truck thread comes up its the same deal. Don't waste your time. Let him be a dumb and buy a powerstroke.

Matt

Dodgemania
03-26-2005, 11:39 PM
My vote is cummins all the way. Why do you people think cummins hasn't changed their design over the last decade and a half. The 7.3 didn't cut it and in 4 or 5 years there will be something different besides the 6.0. Mean while cummins will be in there third decade. No need to change perfection!

Dodgemania
03-26-2005, 11:41 PM
There's a reason why there called power jokes!

northwest lawn
03-27-2005, 02:32 AM
id rather be cummin than strokin

Lawnworks
03-27-2005, 03:18 AM
I like cummin alot

Grassmechanic
03-28-2005, 08:32 AM
Guys, cut Smalltimer some slack. He's just a 18 yo misguided kid. He's got a blue oval so far up his azz that it's causing severe pressure on the part of his brain that is used for rationalizing. He thinks that if you have a problem with a Ford then you've been beating it, but if you have a problem with a Dodge, it's because it's junk. He has no real life experinces. It's always "my dads" or "my grandpas" or some elses. I've own both PSD and Cummins and the Cummins is better - more torque, better cold weather start-up, and far better fuel economy are some of the things I like. Best thing to do with smalltimer is to take his advice with a grain of salt and realize he has a credibility problem.

Eclipse
03-28-2005, 09:15 AM
Guys, cut Smalltimer some slack. He's just a 18 yo misguided kid. He's got a blue oval so far up his azz that it's causing severe pressure on the part of his brain that is used for rationalizing. He thinks that if you have a problem with a Ford then you've been beating it, but if you have a problem with a Dodge, it's because it's junk. He has no real life experinces. It's always "my dads" or "my grandpas" or some elses. I've own both PSD and Cummins and the Cummins is better - more torque, better cold weather start-up, and far better fuel economy are some of the things I like. Best thing to do with smalltimer is to take his advice with a grain of salt and realize he has a credibility problem.

I was going to share my experiences with the Powerstroke and the Cummins (I currently own two Cummins powered trucks) to help show that Smalltimer1 is a bit misguided in his comments, but I think Grassmechanic summed this discussion up pretty well.

The Dude
03-28-2005, 12:37 PM
Guys, cut Smalltimer some slack. He's just a 18 yo misguided kid. He's got a blue oval so far up his azz that it's causing severe pressure on the part of his brain that is used for rationalizing. He thinks that if you have a problem with a Ford then you've been beating it, but if you have a problem with a Dodge, it's because it's junk. He has no real life experinces. It's always "my dads" or "my grandpas" or some elses. I've own both PSD and Cummins and the Cummins is better - more torque, better cold weather start-up, and far better fuel economy are some of the things I like. Best thing to do with smalltimer is to take his advice with a grain of salt and realize he has a credibility problem.

Couldn't have said it better myself. All vehicles have problems of some kind. Otherwise there wouldn't be a need for variety. Just try them out, and buy what you like.

Lawnworks
03-28-2005, 12:37 PM
hmmmm... I wonder why smalltimer's public profile age says N/A :rolleyes: