Bidding Lawns

[Lee Homan]

Up to this point I have been bidding lawns based on an hourly rate but want to switch to a square footage system to be more consistant. I have noticed from previous posts that Lazer and some other guys use a stop fee of say $20.00 and than so much per 1000 square feet. What I would like to do and I would appreciate your feedback, is use strictly a square footage rate and take out the stop fee. I know the sq ft. rate would have to be higher than the above system so that you would make money. The problem I have is that when I measured some of my yards the other day I had a 32,000 sq ft. yard that I use a rider on that takes as long as a 5,000 sq ft. yard that I have to push mow (because it's a small yard and small)but they both pay the same amount. Should I charge more per sq ft. when push mowing or use the hourly rate? Also this 32,000 sq ft. yard is mostly open so I can mow it quicker than say a yard the same size with more obsticles. Thinking maybe there should be different rates per sq ft. for difficulty in mowing?

[Scraper]

I just go by how long I think it is going to take me with whatever piece of equipment is needed to perform the job. I base it on a minimum of $45/hour. Most of my lawns I average about $60/hour. Kinda shoddy "eyeballing" it, but you get a feelof how long something will take. All of my properties are residentials up to 2 acres so I'm not dealing with industrial parks where the "eye-ball" method wouldn't work. I'll worry about that if the opportunity arises.

[Starling Lawn]

lee,you have to know what your costs are for this method.beside your per stop amount,your cost could vary between $2-$8,or even more.eyeballing isn`t good either,especially if you`re doing `full service`.plus you have to know the rate per hour that you can charge and still get new clients.hope i`ve helped.<br>dave

[Scraper]

dls: I am doing &quot;full-service&quot;. You don't think that $45-60/hour is a fair amount to charge? I guess what I mean is...what do you mean by full service? Everything I do has a set fee (i.e. mulching, mowing, pruning) I don't just charge by the hour which is what my post may have appeared to say, I charge by what has been done. I just use the $ amount I strive to make per hour as a factor in my price. After being in this area/market one gets an idea what people are willing to pay. This is not meant to be sarcastic...

[Starling Lawn]

scaper,<br>no offense taken.i meant that if you don`t know your costs(equipment,personnel,overhead)the cost are going to vary from a full service co.as opposed to a one man blow and go.think of the costs difference,more euquipment and payroll between the two.when i first started i eyeballed and lost my shirt.i found out the reasonable rates for my area,then went an sat down with a accountant.man did that open my eyes,not to mention fatten my wallet.sorry to ramble.<br>dave

[Lee Homan]

dls,<p>With the $20.00 per stop and $1.75 per 1000 sq ft. method used as an example what do you figure your overhead and profit on, the $20.00 stop or the sq ft. amount or both? It seems confusing to me, why not just have a flat rate to go by? I guess my question is how do you come up with both figures what are they based on?

[Starling Lawn]

lee,thats that what my point is,if you don`t know what your specific costs,this won`t work for you.your overhead maybe lower than mine would be.yours could could have many variables.do you do everything at this stop or just cut.is this your only account or do you have several at one time.employees?bigger equipment?<br>i`m only try to offer a suggestion.if eyeballing puts money in your pocket after the bills are paid,great.whatever works for you.good luck,<br>dave

[geogunn]

lee--this doesn't actually respond to your question but it seems that you need to get rid of the push mower and get an apropriate walkbehind for small yards. perhaps a 36&quot;.<p>comparing costs and time for the two yards you mention doesn't seem to be apropriate because your use of the pushmower is so ineficeint. just a comment. good luck.<p>GEO

[Scraper]

dls: One more question...(sorry)...so if you go by the $20 stop and $1.75/1,000 ft2...to have an acre property cut/trimmed and blow would cost nearly $95. Do you adjust? I mean it's tough getting $65 around here with guys doing them for $40-45.<p>

[Starling Lawn]

scraper,i looked at my previous postings and they may have been vague.if you were a one man operation,lets say with a low overhead.your stop costs maybe 10.00 stop fee instead of 20.00.then you take your per 1000 sq ft costs,using this for what other services you do,trim ,etc and base that on what you need to get.again that figure could be lower than the example.the figures will be different according the area you are in.just my ex.,fla rates per hr. are higher than va.<br>nilsson could also help with this discusion.i`ve probably just made things more confusing.sorry if i did.<br>dave<br>ps.email me dls7133@excite.com if i can help further

[MRPLOW]

I'm confused how do you justify adjusting your stop fee because of employees. I mean the going rate is the going rate no matter if your one man or four man crew. If you can get yards figuring on a $20.00 stop fee basis then why charge only $10.00 if your a one man operation when you can get $20.00? It seems like you would only be shortchanging yourself.

[Starling Lawn]

its only a formula based on cost.its not written in stone.

[gene gls]

Stay with an hourly rate,that way you can recover any extra time required for what ever reason to maintain each property.

[southside]

I agree,stay with hourly rate.With hourly<br>rate you only need to have 1 price per hour<br>for each job you do,no matter what size job.<br>With square metre pricing you have to vary <br>your cost per m2 (or ft2) on each different<br>sized job.Small jobs you have to up the rate<br>and large jobs you have to drop it or you'll<br>price yourself out of the market.<br>Hope this helps.<p>Karl<p>

[CMerLand]

We bid by the hour for mowing as well because then its very easy to explain to an employee how long it should take to do the job with a profit. In addition I can think of a many scenarios that would give a wide variation in the amount of time that it would take to complete two similiar sized jobs.<p>Example in a new development:<p>Two 15,000 square ft lawns one sodded at completion the other still growing in from seed.<p>Sodded lawn has complete landscaping around house with smooth beds around all obstacles and no fences (ie: Minimal string trimming. Also has an overzealous 7 lbs N per year homeowner who runs the sprinkler system every day. <p>Seeded house has no landscaping grass up to the foundation, a fence surrounding the entire yard, a swing set, a pool and a shed in the back yard. Oh and did i mention its a corner house with 800 ft of sidewalks???<p>In the above example the times may balance out to about equal mowing times. But what if the fence/pool/corner lot were house #1. Biggg variation in the mowing times then.<p>We do use sq ft for pesticide application costs but even then use a factor on unusual circumstance lawns. The biggest factor about bidding as i believe someone else mentioned is knowing alllllll your costs.<p>Labor, equipment, and especially overhead .

[Starling Lawn]

that was my point,know your cost.it doesn`t matter which method you use,as long as you put money in the bank<br>dave

[Lee Homan]

I appreciate all the responses. I think I'm going to try a minimum mowing charge to cover the small stuff (1 hour or less)and a square ft. charge for the larger stuff and maybe break it down into 3 levels of difficulty eack level having it's own rate per square ft.. I do alright eyeballing the small stuff but the larger stuff is where I have some problems. I just want to be more consistant on my bidding instead of looking at something and saying oh, that looks like a $50 dollar job. I know some of you guys probably do pretty good with that method but I'm not real comfortable with it yet.

[Doug406]

I would never use a per foot flat charge!! Like others are saying, if you do you will be wondering why your company always gets the 1/2 acer, tightly lanscaped, hilly, fenced, pooled, trim crazy yards that take forever and a day for $30 bucks while you lost the 2 acer open lot that can be cut in less time than than the other lawn because you bid accordingly for $120 while I will cut the 2 acer lot with a 62&quot; for $80 and be off to the next profit maker before you.<br> Always bid each property differently, figuring in your overhead and time nessesary for the job, and do not undercut yourself.