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View Full Version : pavers vursus stamping


Residential Recreation
03-27-2005, 09:50 PM
i started this thread to debate the pros and cons of pavers and stamping.
lets see how we duke this one out :realmad: :angry: :dizzy: :cry:

cgland
03-28-2005, 02:32 PM
Others may disagree, but the facts are the facts. Any poured in place concrete product WILL crack. I don't care what type of base prep you have, it will, at some point crack. Stamped concrete, IMO, is ugly and very unnatural looking. (especially when you have the expansion joints in there) The beauty of pavers is they expand and contract as individual units, not as a whole like concrete. Pavers will hold up to salt and the elements better and the pattern and color choices are greater with pavers. You don't see any of the sea ports going to poured concrete now do you. Pavers are just more versatile and way more appealing to the eye. IMO.

Chris

GreenMonster
03-28-2005, 02:40 PM
I gotta agree with Chris on this one.

Unless their was a big cost savings with the concrete and then only in an area that was not subject to a freeze/thaw cycle, I would always go with pavers as a first choice.

Like Chris said, great color, texture and pattern choices, as well as the limitless design options you can add on your own with circle kits, soldier courses, sailor courses, etc.

Residential Recreation
03-28-2005, 02:44 PM
i agree with both of you but lets hear from some of the stampers

The Good Earth
03-28-2005, 07:18 PM
I know that stamping is real big down in the south because of the lack of freeze and thaw. While it is just the opposite of that here in the great white north. I have a customer that I did some seeding for and am installing a water feature this spring. Their builder put in a stamped concrete patio in the rear of the house. If it was me i would have ripped up the check and told the builder to redo it. Man, it looks bad. I am going up there probably wednesday. I'll take a polaroid of it. Y'all will bust your rear ends laughing.

mbella
03-28-2005, 07:37 PM
For the guys that do stamped concrete, how long do you warranty the work?

Residential Recreation
03-28-2005, 08:32 PM
stampers have no argument yet come on where are you guys

DJD
03-28-2005, 09:07 PM
They is no input, I have said it in another thread already. If you can install pavers, more power to you. But in my area, you can't sell what the people don't want, bottom line.

I do however got a question for the guys that install pavers. How much work do you actually get with pavers???? 5,,, mabe 7 jobs a year.
I did pavers for 10 years and stilll do, but when I stamp 30-50 yards a concrete a week for 5 months,,,, the past 3 years. I will leave the pavers to you guys.

www.concrete-texturing.com

Go look and then tell me about color combinations and patterns with pavers that concrete doesn't have. I didn't want to make the change 3 years ago, but it was the best financial move my company has ever made.

IMO,,,,, Give the people what they want :)

Residential Recreation
03-28-2005, 09:18 PM
pavin jobs about 50 decks 70 playstructures 25 fences 30 ponds 15 jobs arbors and gazebos 25 jobs incorperating 2-3 things 20 jobs incorperating 4-5 things 5

Residential Recreation
03-28-2005, 09:19 PM
just bull chittin if i did that much work in the warm season i would have no time for my family

DJD
03-28-2005, 09:23 PM
It wasn't meant to knock anyone,, I was just stating that if I didn't stamp concrete,, I would never have enough work with pavers.
Sorry if anyone took it the wrong way

mbella
03-28-2005, 09:28 PM
DJD, how long do you warranty the stamped concrete?

DJD
03-28-2005, 09:34 PM
Usually a year, if there is a major problem we usually take care of it for a few years.
Most jobs we reseal the following year before winter included in the original price.

mbella
03-28-2005, 09:37 PM
Do you warranty against cracking or spalling?

Residential Recreation
03-28-2005, 09:43 PM
you did not offend anybody we are just happy to hear from a stamper. my brother does a lot of stampin in cali but it really wouldnt work well here i have no problem with stampers sorry if you thought i was offended

DJD
03-28-2005, 09:48 PM
Crackin,. 99% of the time if it does crack off a control cut it will crack in the deep part of the pattern where if you reseal that spot with a lacquer sealer, fixed. Stops water from penetrating and hides the crack. Never had a problem with large cracks or lifting.
I never had a problem with spalling. We always,,, always use a good sealer whether it be stamped, stained, or regular concrete
To be honest from the best of my knowledge,, spalling is mostly caused by the workers. Adding that little bit of water to get cream up or just finishing it way to wet.
I have been a union mason for 13 years now and am still learning. I go to everyclass and seminar I can to keep learning.
I think the sealer is the answer to alot of concrete problems.

I tend to overdo alot. I mean I play it safe as far as prep, pouring and sealing. At $12 a square foot,,,, I make sure there are no problems that I can control

northmichigan
03-28-2005, 09:50 PM
It wasn't meant to knock anyone,, I was just stating that if I didn't stamp concrete,, I would never have enough work with pavers.
Sorry if anyone took it the wrong way
i like to do flagstone patios but have time to check out stamping. do you think with five months of winter and 120" of snow stamping would hold up ?

DJD
03-28-2005, 09:53 PM
NP Residential,,
But I do have to tell you this,,,, I have stamped front sidewalks, inground pool all stamped,,, but yet off my deck,,,going to the pool, I have a 18x18 paver patio :D And No,, I am not kidding,lol

mbella
03-28-2005, 09:56 PM
DJD, thanks for the responses. I understand that stamped concrete is selling better than pavers in your area. However, in my area, I would have to say the opposite is true. I think pavers are a better application for a few reasons. Lifetime warranty against cracking or spalling (never met a stamper that offered that kind of warranty), easy replacement in case of damage, access to underground utilities and as somebody else said, no expansion joints to distract from the pattern. When it comes to cost, they are virtually the same.

DJD
03-28-2005, 10:00 PM
NorthMichigan,
Flagstone is by far,, the nicest looking material used. I still try and push flagstone on people. How is the quality of your flagstone there? Our area seems to get the bottom of the barrel anymore. Alot of metals in it. No matter how much sealer you put on it, it still shows rust in a year

Like I said,, everything seems to revolve around having a good sealer on. Just might have to apply once a year, or everyother year.

mbella
03-28-2005, 10:02 PM
DJD, what would you say are the benefits of using stamped concrete rather than pavers?

DJD
03-28-2005, 10:06 PM
Mbella,
I agree with you on all your points. Like I said if you can sell it in your area,, that's great. But here,,, it just doesn't sell.

That is one done fall with stamped concrete. Once that colored release is on,, there is no room for error. One dropped stamped will scar the job for as long as it is there.
Look at this way, at the money you get for stamping,, you could actually screw it up,,, rip it out,, redo it,,, and still make a profit

mbella
03-28-2005, 10:11 PM
DJD, I understand where you're coming from. I'm just suprised. I'm suprised that for virtually the same price, consumers in your area would choose an inferrior application. I've gone up against stamped concrete when selling paver jobs and I never have a problem explaining the advantages of pavers.

Residential Recreation
03-28-2005, 10:12 PM
neither have i mike

mbella
03-28-2005, 10:14 PM
DJD, by the way, the quality of flagstone sucks here as well.

Residential Recreation
03-28-2005, 10:21 PM
yup the flagstone here in northern indiana is great because nm is soo close if you want good quality stone you just have to pay the price aggregate industries will get it for you they offered me dg at 65 a ton thats with their 45 a ton shipping

northmichigan
03-28-2005, 10:32 PM
NorthMichigan,
Flagstone is by far,, the nicest looking material used. I still try and push flagstone on people. How is the quality of your flagstone there? Our area seems to get the bottom of the barrel anymore. Alot of metals in it. No matter how much sealer you put on it, it still shows rust in a year

Like I said,, everything seems to revolve around having a good sealer on. Just might have to apply once a year, or everyother year.
we have great flagstone here but very pricey from 250 to 400 a ton. in dozens of colors and sizes.
there are many landscapers doing dry-set flags on crushed limestone base.many more masons doing mortar on concrete. i do both.what is your speciality?
mj

northmichigan
03-28-2005, 10:33 PM
DJD, by the way, the quality of flagstone sucks here as well.
i've used penn. bluestone and loved it.
mj

mbella
04-01-2005, 08:14 PM
Before last year, I would have agreed. I saw a marked decrease in flagstone quality last year. I bought from five different vendors and the lack of quality was consistent.

scraper69
04-03-2005, 09:23 AM
It customer preference- Stamp vs Pavers. and in Mich Stamp is a bit less than pavers- due to time to prep and install. We do both, i like pouring because the job gets done faster. pavers are time consuming (cuts steps etc)
As for quality- i agree pavers are better -especially in Mich with frz/thw cycle
however its what you can sell the client. Now days. there are many different patterns for stamping, (and We use added color to the concrete (no release) much easier and cleaner to work with.) Beware - you need talent to do this,,, not everyone who can lay pavers can finish and stamp concrete. It takes experience and skill. If done right you can have a hella finished product.
I still prefer to start the sales pitch with pavers (due to $/sq), and it holds up longer with frost(freeze thaw).

It all depends on what the customer wants.. but i am glad to offer both,