Engine break-in, and synthetic oil

[andygold]

What is the typical break-in procedure for a mower's engine, to gain the best gas mileage and longevity?

Also, how many hours of operation are typically necessary for an engine to be considered "broken in"? I want to switch over to synthetic oil, but not before the engine is fully broken in.

[CWG]

jeez, brand new engine? I'd run it 25-30 hours then go synth.
Synthetics are absolutely worth the extra money.
I do oil flush after the first day on new motors, just me, but cheap insurance it seems.
CWG

[Brandyanna]

What is the typical break-in procedure for a mower's engine, to gain the best gas mileage and longevity?

Also, how many hours of operation are typically necessary for an engine to be considered "broken in"? I want to switch over to synthetic oil, but not before the engine is fully broken in.

Modern ring and honing techniques are such that a break in period is not neccesary. According to the local Yamaha folks you want to get the Synthetic's in BEFORE you have any cylinder wear. My new mowers recieved a immediate uprade to synthetics and experianced no ill effects. 4 cycle or two cycle.

[andygold]

Modern ring and honing techniques are such that a break in period is not neccesary. According to the local Yamaha folks you want to get the Synthetic's in BEFORE you have any cylinder wear. My new mowers recieved a immediate uprade to synthetics and experianced no ill effects. 4 cycle or two cycle.

I don't think I can agree with that (no disrespect intended)....is there some place, or respected publication where you've seen that printed? Please direct me to it! :) A coworker switched to synthetic in his pickup before it was broken in... within first 1000 miles. Now with less than 10,000 miles, he is going through excessive amounts of oil, with extremely low mpg for his type vehicle. I would assume that the car manufacturers would have the same or better ring and honing technology than small engine manufacturers, so what gives? Does he have a problem, or did he switch too early? The dealer says it's the latter. They told him to drain the synthetic, and run dino oil for a good long while to attempt to break-in the engine.

[Let it Grow]

I would recommend a break-in period. I would run the engine at about half ot the operating RPM's for a good half hour, then I would use it for a couple days, but don't run it at high RPM's for those few days, after two or three days I would change the oil, and then use it normally.

[Mower For Less]

I considered synthetics, but I read in the owners manual (Kawasaki) that they advised strickly against them. It was enough to persuade me to keep using regular oil. 700 Hours on Good 'Ol Straight 30, and no oil related problems to date. Still going strong.

Kevin

[Gautreaux's LNG]

Take the extra money the synthetics cost you and do more routine maintence on your equipment. If you consider more time in the engine for synthetic oil you are also allowing the things that contaminate your engine more time to be there also. I've been told to wear in oil rings, and it will burn oil if you don't. I don't know the magic number maybe someone else does. Later Guys

[Randy J]

....is there some place, or respected publication where you've seen that printed? Please direct me to it! :) ...

Actually there is another very similar thread where a publication is quoted (though I do believe it is an oil company publication). Many new vehicles come with synthetics in the crankcase from the factory. I just don't see how you could switch to synthetics too soon, and no one has ever been able to explain why it would be a problem.
Here's a website you may want to explore for your decision: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/. I persoanlly think synthetics or not is a personal choice. I prefer synthetics myself, but I also know there are many good dino oils, that changed regularly would be more than sufficient.

[andygold]

Actually there is another very similar thread where a publication is quoted (though I do believe it is an oil company publication). Many new vehicles come with synthetics in the crankcase from the factory. I just don't see how you could switch to synthetics too soon, and no one has ever been able to explain why it would be a problem.
Here's a website you may want to explore for your decision: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/. I persoanlly think synthetics or not is a personal choice. I prefer synthetics myself, but I also know there are many good dino oils, that changed regularly would be more than sufficient.


Well, this afternoon, I spoke to American Honda, and Mobil Oil Co. At Honda, it was a tech, and at Mobil I believe he was more of a salesperson than a tech. They both told me that from day one you can use synthetic oil in the engines, without the need for breaking in rings, cylinders, or valve seats. This is all news to me, but that's what I was told. The Mobil guy did tell me that new Corvettes, Aston Martins, AMG Mercedes, Mitsubishi, Vipers have Mobil 1 installed at the factory. He also said not to use it in Mazda rotary engines, and curiously, in 2004 VW diesels.

[kwelch]

I was considering using synthetic so I went to the local Kohler dealer and asked them. They said you can run synthetic but they only run HD30. So I'm running HD30.

[MJLsLawnCareNmoreLLC]

usually for a mower engine you want to run them with regular motor oil for the first 100 hours or so and the you switch to synthetic motor oil.

[lawnrangeralaska]

oil is oil, just use regular cheapo stuff and change it every 25 hours. you want to get the crap out of your motor so it doesnt hurt it. buy 10 dollar a quart oil and changing it regularly doesnt save you money. over time it will cost you more money bc they say it last longer, but you dont know that you got metal and other crap in the oil to ruin your motor. wal mart super tech is the way to go on oil.

[ince8728]

i own a walker and just had a new kohler put in it. My mechanic said use it for about 10 hrs, and don't go past 3 quarter throttle, then change it after the 1st 10. I'm going synthetic from day 1. My 1st kohler crapped out at 1500 hrs, nvr again, I want 3000- 4000 out of this baby. Synthetic will get me there.


- Matt

[Jpocket]

What is the typical break-in procedure for a mower's engine, to gain the best gas mileage and longevity?

Also, how many hours of operation are typically necessary for an engine to be considered "broken in"? I want to switch over to synthetic oil, but not before the engine is fully broken in.

All that synthetic stuff is for lazy people. A bunch of BS if you change your oil when your supposed to ( OFTEN) the motor will last just as long PERIOD. :dizzy:

[saw man]

Sure is alot of post from people that dont know jack about oil!!!

If you say oil is all the same you dont know jack! If you say synthetic is for lazy people and not worth it you dont know jack!!

Do some research on oils and see what the difference is, then come back and post something worth reading!!

[Jpocket]

THats your opinon on oil I have been around engines since i was a toddler.
Don't tell me my post isn't worth reading. UNless you have a mercedes or some engine that strictly calls for synthetic it's pointless if you change yor oil like your supposed to. I'd bet good money that some good ol' Castrol GTX or Quakerstate is just as good a Synthetic When you change your oil regularly.

Synthetic IS BULL! SAWMAN :angry:

[Jpocket]

Sure is alot of post from people that dont know jack about oil!!!

If you say oil is all the same you dont know jack! If you say synthetic is for lazy people and not worth it you dont know jack!!

Do some research on oils and see what the difference is, then come back and post something worth reading!!

Crap About oil! The nevere of some people. You believe everything these huge oil companys tell you. Ive seen a 35 year old 327 chevy all original new been cracked open run like a champ. SO WHAT ARE YOU SAYING IT WOULD HAVE LAST 70 years if the guy had used a synthetic oils That a crap load and I guess you don't know it. Take THE SYNTHETIC AND SHOVE IT !

[saw man]

THats your opinon on oil I have been around engines since i was a toddler.
Don't tell me my post isn't worth reading. UNless you have a mercedes or some engine that strictly calls for synthetic it's pointless if you change yor oil like your supposed to. I'd bet good money that some good ol' Castrol GTX or Quakerstate is just as good a Synthetic When you change your oil regularly.

Synthetic IS BULL! SAWMAN :angry:

Like I said go do research on oil and come back with something smart. Until you do I will call you a moron! You group Castrol GTX a Qstate the same when you know nothing about them! What basestock does each use? what additive package is each one using and which one outperforms the other? On different engines you will also get better wear #'s from different oils.

Its a shame that you have been around engines since you were a toddler and still dont know jack! You must only be 5, sorry.

[saw man]

Crap About oil! The nevere of some people. You believe everything these huge oil companys tell you. Ive seen a 35 year old 327 chevy all original new been cracked open run like a champ. SO WHAT ARE YOU SAYING IT WOULD HAVE LAST 70 years if the guy had used a synthetic oils That a crap load and I guess you don't know it. Take THE SYNTHETIC AND SHOVE IT !

I never said it would run longer, Im saying Syn. is a better oil! If you deny it your stupid!

There is some very good dino oils out there such as Chevron Supreme. Great package and great UOA results. Alot better than the oils you posted! So kiss my a$$ and do some research before you come to me with this BS, these other guys may not know but I do!!

[Jpocket]

OK you use your synthetic and ill use conventional. Spend $6.00 per quart and ill spend $2.19 and get the smae end result. The F*ck with wear packages, I use what has worked for my father his father and his fathers father. Wear wear packages HA

[Jpocket]

I never said it would run longer, Im saying Syn. is a better oil! If you deny it your stupid!

There is some very good dino oils out there such as Chevron Supreme. Great package and great UOA results. Alot better than the oils you posted! So kiss my a$$ and do some research before you come to me with this BS, these other guys may not know but I do!!

What do you work for Mobile or some thing or are you just a know it all smart ass?

[kerdog]

saw man----

Why don't you enlighten all of us about the facts of oil?

I always thought oil didn't break down (but I know different now). The reason to change it often (I thought), was because it gets contaminated; with gas/diesel, dirt, metal, etc. Maybe it's that stuff that breaks it down.

I was never that big on synthetic oil, too expensive, especially if you change it often, as recommended. Unless you're running some high horsepower nitrous whatever!

kerdog

[siclmn]

It is the contamination that gets into your oil which is the enemy. Not the brand of oil. Lawn mower engines are not high revving race car engines. They are work horse engines. The high end cars that are getting the synthetic oil from the factory are just securing synthetic oil customers from the get go.

[saw man]

Before you all start getting on your high horse and talking crap about that you great great grand pappy used such an oil so its must be good do some research.

I have posted this link many times, which is posted in this thread www.bobistheoilguy.com they have a forum section that you can learn alot from.

I dont spend $6 a quart on oil I spend about $3 to $3.25 on a syn. oil.

The reason for UOA is to determine what is in the oil and how it has broken down. High amounts of silicon will be the result of dirt consumption. Therefore you check and fix the problem before it gets out of hand.

You talk about ME working for Mobil, or listening to what a big oil company tells me and the next breath you talk about how you should change oil every 3k miles. That is from the oil manufactures and the ol jiffy lube. Most of the dino oil out today still has life left after 3k miles. Dont go by only dirt in your oil cause that can be rare, what is your TBN at after 3k miles, how is your additive package? And to laugh about an additive package means you are an idiot!!! ALL oils have additive packages! Even dino oil!

So before you all act like you are so smart do some research. Find out what oil works best for the type of engine you have wether its dino or syn.

PS ~ I also use chevron supreme dino oil in some applications, I am not saying dino oil is bad just that syn. is a better product! I mix my syn. oil for my car depending on time of year. And the Chevron oil I buy is $1 a quart if your spendin $2.19 you may want to rethink your decision since you like to save so much money!

[Envy Lawn Service]

Anyone who says 'Chevron' 'good' and 'oil' in the same sentence knows about oil.

Great stuff. Hard to find here though, except the fleet oil, which is good stuff too. So, I have returned to the Havoline dino. I've sorta been hoping it's the same oil since the companies are merged. Do you know SawMan???

Anyways, I tend to side with some of the others here about synthetics. I agree they are better oils, but so far I have not found a gas lawn & garden engine that I think it's smart to run synthetics in. In my opinion the oil in them gets too dirty too fast for it to be the smart or economical choice.

I just don't think you can run synthetics long enough in these engines to get your money's worth out of it. Especially not when you have some $1-$2 dino oil that comes pretty close in performance. Depending on weather conditions and working conditions, 25-50 hours seems to be my threshold for an oil and filter change. It's hard for me to justify.

Anyways, what's your recommendation for a Kawasaki V-Twin?

Also, I have a mower with a 2 gallon hydro system. Hydro Gear pumps, Parker Ross wheel motors. Specs are to run dino 20W 50 oil only. I can really see the benefit of synthetics in the hydros, and I know it would cost a crap load to put in 2 gallons of synthetic when it comes time for the first hydro service at 500 hrs.... But I CAN'T see any reason WHY Specs are to run dino 20W 50 oil only. What are your thoughts on this???

[TJLANDS]

Heres one for you oil guys. Mobil One is comming out with a 15000 mile
oil. So for some it would be once a year oil change. (Three times a year for me 45k)For me, syn in everything.
It just does not break down. As far as contaminents in your motors.....
keep them clean and caps tight.
Always used it in my trucks. Then one week we changed the oil in a couple of mowers and we did one in syn. One week later about 30hours each the regular oil was you know Black like it always is. the synthetic was almost the same as day one other than the fact I didnt flush it before I put it in. So dont knock it until you try it

[saw man]

Im not sure on the Havoline being the same as the Chevron dino, I havent read much into it but i will look and see what i can find. Here is something I just found that you may be interested in http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=11;t=000294

Here is a list of VOA that has been done on just about any oil you can think of http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=forum;f=11 search and you can find on a specific oil.

Most of the Hydros today are calling for a syn. 10-30 even from same manufacture. You may want to call and see if it is specific to this pump or not. If they still cal for the heavier oil then I see no reason why you couldnt use a 15-50 syn. oil in the hydro.

As far as the Kawi. twin, I would say it depends on usage, if you dont want to use a syn. then go with a good dino such as chevron, havoline has good #'s, Castrol GTX has good #'s.

The problem with mower engines is that they are close to the ground and with all the debris stirred around by the blades is that you will have more dirt consumption. The more you keep your filters clean the better, and changing oil frequently is also a good practice. Also how long do you use the machine for? We all know that its better on your car to go on long trips than to putt around town. You turn off your engine and the oil cools and goes to the sump, when U restart it doesnt have the lubrication or flow and does more damage. This is where syn. will out perform dino on this type of use. I use syn. in my car because of my driving habits, I drive 3/4 a mile to work and shut it down. I change my oil more often because I know im creating more wear by not getting my oil flowing good enough in the period of time i drive.

If any of you want to learn about oil, whether its dino or syn. go to the site I posted. I have been no there for over 2 years and have learned alot, there is chemists on there that help out in every forum, there are people that send in numerous oil samples so that everyone can learn, there is a section where you can find out what everything means and how it helps or hurts your engine. Also different engine act diff. to diff. oil and also on driving habits. The forum is very informative and you will learn alot. Use the search function and you will be there for days soaking in info. on different brands and how it all works.

Sorry for the long post, you will learn alot no matter what type of oil you want to use. You dont have to switch from dino to syn. or vice versus but at least you will learn something and maybe change brands based on the #'s given.

Thanks

[MMLawn]

i own a walker and just had a new kohler put in it. My mechanic said use it for about 10 hrs, and don't go past 3 quarter throttle, - Matt


Funny, in a new KAW mower that I have the dealer told me TO run it wide open during break in.

[bart may]

Sawman has shed some great advice on oils. There's no need to bash one another. One guy mentioned that after changing his synthetic oils the color is practically the same as when he put it in. This has been the case for me as well. This tells me that the contaminants are minimal compared to conventional oil. I run my synthetics a bit longer on oil change intervals because the oil can handle it, so the price is a wash with using conv. oils. The benefit is an oil that has better modifiers for start ups and a higher heat index tolerances. You'll have more time to do other maintenance. Try it on one oil change and if the syn. doesn't look cleaner than your conv. oil after the oil change then stay with the conv.

Just a thought. I remember my grandpa telling me a story about him farming. He said that a tire salesman came into the field trying to sell him rubber tractor tires. He said that he about ran him off. How could rubber tires be better than the metal ones he had. He didn't want to hear any of it. This is a true story. Take it for what it's worth. Technology is a good thing and sometimes can help us improve our way of life. Thank goodness my John Deere tractor doesn't have those huge metal tires of yester year.

[saw man]

One thing to add is that by switching oils with one that is better and has a better cleaning additive is that you may not see the diff. or tell by analysis for a couple oil changes because the "better" oil is cleaning what the old oil left.

here is a link for analysis specs http://theoildrop.server101.com/whatisoilanalysis.htm

Also diff. engines have been proven to break down oil faster than others. That is why I tell you all to research about what you have. It is the only way to tell.

[GetSomeGOJO]

I have often been told by my gearhead dad that synthetics have a more uniform viscosity at all temp. ranges. Meaning, the cool oil is as slippery as the warm oil (I guess). That means good things for recoil start WB units (easier to crank). Also, for every other machine I'd bet.

Dad uses Mobil 1 Delvac in his heavily modified Volkswagen Jetta TDI (diesel)

All the same, my heavily used Gravely promaster 100 will probably never see a drop of synth. Too many hours and not enough oil changes :(

[T.E.]

Say what you will about synthetics. I for one have no intentions of ever going back to dino oil. I have a walkbehind that I could not start for the life of me when it drops to about 40 degrees, put in syn. starts right up that is the only thing I did different. I also put syn in my Z rider. I get an hour more per tank on the gas now, than I did with dino oil. This may not be true for every one, but this is my own analysis. Have a good day everyone. Tony

[bigz1001]

Interesting link on breaking in new engines...

Break in Secrets (http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm)

[Travis Followell]

So does using synthetic oil make the oil change intervals longer like for example our 25 hp Kohler must have the oil changed every 50 hours and the filter every 100. Would using synthetic increase these intervals? Also if I wanted to run synthetic in a Kawasaki what oil would I use? kawasaki recommends SAE 30 and i'm not aware of synthetic SAE 30.

[Randy J]

In theory using synthetics would increase the intervals, though I'm not sure I would in a mower. I certainly do in my vehicles though, changing every 10,000 miles instead of 5000. But then I do a lot of highway driving also. Amsoil has a straight SAE 30 diesel oil. Not sure how that would work in a mower engine.

[MMLawn]

So does using synthetic oil make the oil change intervals longer like for example our 25 hp Kohler must have the oil changed every 50 hours and the filter every 100. Would using synthetic increase these intervals? Also if I wanted to run synthetic in a Kawasaki what oil would I use? kawasaki recommends SAE 30 and i'm not aware of synthetic SAE 30.


First off with a mower engine do NOT attempt to get to many hours between changes just because you decide to run Synth oil. Then if you really wait and do oil changes every 50 hours as the manual says and esp if you don't change the filter too and wait 100 hours your motors are headed for the shop! The cheapest preventive maintenance you can do is CHANGE THE ENGINE OIL! It is cheap even with a filter and 2 quarts of oil you are only looking $8! We change the oil and filter in all my mowers at 25 hours no matter what. As to the KAWS they also clearly suggest 10/30W and actually that has about the same temp ranges as 30W so if you want Synth you can get it in that blend.

[bart may]

MMlawn is right about running 10-30 in the kawi or Kohler. I let mine go to 75 hours before changing synthetics. One major thing to do, to insure clean engines is tap out your air filter daily. this is were 90% of contaminants enter. If you do this faithfully and keep your foam pre cleaner clean you can easily extend your oil changes with synthetics.

[Envy Lawn Service]

I have a Kawi without the canister filter, so I already MUST service the air filter ATLEAST daily.
Pitiful....

[LwnmwrMan22]

Ummm.... Guys???

I run AmzOil in everything.

I change my oil every 500 hours on the mower engines.

I change my oil in my truck every 20,000 miles.

If I did oil changes every 25 hours, that'd be every 3 days for me.

Plus, that'd be 20 oil changes to my 1 now.

Switch to synthetic.

Get it tested.

You'll never go back.

[MMLawn]

Ummm.... Guys???

I run AmzOil in everything.

I change my oil every 500 hours on the mower engines.

I change my oil in my truck every 20,000 miles.

Get it tested.
.


I suggest that you get it tested because even the BEST synthetic oils in the world won't hold up to those numbers!

I do changes every week.

Remind me to never buy anthing that has a motor from you. LOL :cool2:

[Envy Lawn Service]

I suggest that you get it tested because even the BEST synthetic oils in the world won't hold up to those numbers!

I do changes every week.

Remind me to never buy anthing that has a motor from you. LOL :cool2:

Likewise....

Maybe not so much the oil itself, dunno what amsoil can withstand, but as I have said, the standard filtration just is not good enough to support that type of drain intervals. You need canister air filtration and bypass oil filtration in my opinion, just do go beyond the recommended numbers.

I wonder how many of his mower engines live to see the second oil change?

[LwnmwrMan22]

Likewise....

Maybe not so much the oil itself, dunno what amsoil can withstand, but as I have said, the standard filtration just is not good enough to support that type of drain intervals. You need canister air filtration and bypass oil filtration in my opinion, just do go beyond the recommended numbers.

I wonder how many of his mower engines live to see the second oil change?


They all do, and have.

I trade my mowers in, every 2-3 years, with 1200-1800 hours on them.

I do this for tax purposes, not oil change purposes. Also, why not run everything under warranty??

Anyways, the trucks get 2 oil changes a year, and I trade every 3 years @ 100-120,000 miles in 3 years.

Nothing's ever leaked oil, no lifters have ever rattled, nothing's ever smoked like a "casio loving drinking mother in law".

I will change the filters once inbetween full oil changes, and yes Envy is right, it is all about the filter.

You cannot go to Wal-Mart, or Target and get your filter. If you do, please at least buy the more expensive one.

[Soupy]

The synthetic oil itself will last 500 hrs in a mower without breaking down. Just look at your hydro systems, the difference is a hydro system is sealed and doesn't consume dirt. The problem with mower engine oil is that it operates in very dusty environments and the oil gets dirty causing it to need changing way before the oil starts to break down. It is totally different then driving a car for 15,000 miles or how a hydro system works. I suggest you change the oil in your mowers by what your manual says. If you work in extreme dusty applications you should change it even more then what the manual says.

With that said, I believe Synthetic has more benefits then just extended drain intervals. So ideally in dusty applications a synthetic blend would be the best option. You still get all the benefits of synthetic but without the Extended drain intervals (which you won't use anyway).

[mowtime]

Wow a lot of different opinions out there, its funny why people change oil @ 3,000 miles because my 1982 toyota 4x4 manual states every 10,000 miles. It has 300,000 miles plus and still runs great never rebuilt. The DIFFERENCE is in the filter. A high quality filter is the most important feature. Go to any big auto parts chain and their house brand oil is almost always repackaged havoline or pennzoil. All oil must pass certain guidlines established by sae engineers.

[causalitist]

amsoil.. which according to the numbers makes the best synthetic oil there is even suggests not to use any of their oils during the break in period, but to instead use regular petro oil. this is because the engine will take way longer to break in because high quality sythetics loob too well for the engine to break in properly.

[tomo]

hello, what a lot of yawn ,yawn :sleeping:
But seriously have u guys never heard of semi synthetic oil ???????
Main benefit is it is way cheaper than full synthetics .
What is your criteria for changing oil ?
1/engine oil run hotter than 212f [just a liitle secret 99% of mowers run 212 & up [air cooled] }
2/99% of oil companies will say all oils have a shorter life when exposed to temps greater than 225f and up, although full synwill last longer than convential oil .Most ztr will be approx 260-270f
3/ask yourself do u mow in conditions other than bright green lawn ,my guess most answers would be yes .What r we talking about DUST DUST my man . DUST limits oil life as we know or as we know it grinding paste 4 your engine. It still contaminates expensive full syn oil also .
Dust does not discriminate!!!!!!


My exprience originally i could not get 50 hrs out of oil in peak season,it was cooked and dirty [standard mineral oil]
Fitted oil filter of quality and 3x larger than original
Fitted oil foam air filter in place of engine filter [canister donaldson also fitted up stream] With original air fiter a rub of finger on top of carb ,it was slightly discoloured. with foam filter this area stays clean .

FIT A HUGE OIL COOLER

No more oil issues and by the way a semi syn is being used and oil changes r at 50 --60 hrs

tomo:waving:

[causalitist]

full synthetic is better.. much better. the very best companies adding corrosion inhibiters to reduce rust in winter, guarunteeing 35,000 miles per change.. now of course i wouldnt extend it for that much in a mower.. they add alkalines to neutralize acids from combustion/condensation buildup more than double the average dino oil... it can withstand super high temps.. lowest volitility increasing fuel efficiency.. and on and on.

these same companies produce oil filters that filter almost double the quantity of gunk, and get 97% of particles down to 15 microns in size.
no over the counter or oem filter will even come close to that .. 40-100 microns at best with crappy paper element.. and yes, im talking about fram/stp/oem etc

these 2 coupled with some high tack foam filter oil on your prefilter and you really dont get minimal contaminants.

i get 300 hours per oil change, so yes.. i actually save money with synthetic.. and time..

and lastly, i got my oil analyzed a few times in the process of figuring out how long i could extend it.. and everytime it was good to go.. but i finally just decided to change every 300 hours for the heck of it. probabaly could go alot longer.

its only $25 to get your oil checked out by a lab.. and this way i can optamize the length of my oil change schedule.

[MOW ED]

I can tell by the post that it is the dead of winter in lawn care land.

Ok my 2 cents. Take a quart of 10-30 dino and a quart of 10-30 synthetic. Leave them outside overnight.
Tomorrow morning take them in the garage and pour them out. This convinced me for winter use. I can't advocate the heat test but I do know that synthetic outperforms dino in the heat.

That being said, there is no substitute for regular change intervals dependent on conditions. Period. No matter who is swimming in your engine. Come on spring!!!

[hwew]

Hey guy's,

I change my oil and oil filter every 50 hours and clean the air filter at the end of each day.

For my piece of mind this is the oil I run.

Some of the best specs. on the market.

[LwnmwrMan22]

I still stick by what I said last year.

I run Amsoil 15-40 heavyweight diesel / marine oil in the mowers and my trucks.

There's 2 airfilters, a regular and pre-filter.

Just like all the mowers are now switching to a dual canister (have and finally are, depending on the brand), I've been doing that for years, like most have already.

Same thing goes for oil filters on the truck, running dual oil filters.

I suppose my mowers are actually changed about every 300 hours, much like casualists'.

If I trade it in after 3 years with 1500 hours, then that means 500 hours / year, and I change it two times / year.

One time in 18 years have I had issues with bad lifters, pistons, etc., that was on a 22 hp liquid cooled Kohler that an employee ran without oil in it.

The sending unit for the oil shutoff broke, and leaked the oil out.

It didn't seize the engine, but the lifters needed to be redone, and a piston was slightly scored.

Imagine if that would have been conventional oil in there????? Probably would have needed a new engine.

[TSG]

One thing that folks are not saying is that Synthetics typically run 15-20 degrees cooler than dyno. This has been proven in air- cooled motorcycles.
Ask a Harley Owner
Syn all the way,
Alan

[hwew]

I still stick by what I said last year.

I run Amsoil 15-40 heavyweight diesel / marine oil in the mowers and my trucks.

There's 2 airfilters, a regular and pre-filter.

Just like all the mowers are now switching to a dual canister (have and finally are, depending on the brand), I've been doing that for years, like most have already.

Same thing goes for oil filters on the truck, running dual oil filters.

I suppose my mowers are actually changed about every 300 hours, much like casualists'.

If I trade it in after 3 years with 1500 hours, then that means 500 hours / year, and I change it two times / year.

One time in 18 years have I had issues with bad lifters, pistons, etc., that was on a 22 hp liquid cooled Kohler that an employee ran without oil in it.

The sending unit for the oil shutoff broke, and leaked the oil out.

It didn't seize the engine, but the lifters needed to be redone, and a piston was slightly scored.

Imagine if that would have been conventional oil in there????? Probably would have needed a new engine.

AMSOIL (AME)15W-40 is a great oil. for gas power equipment also. One of the things that most people do not get informed about when purchasing most newer class of gas engine and some diesel oils is the oil companies are being forced to reduce the amount of zinc and moly that is present in oil's. AMSOIL is one of the companies that will inform their customers that ask which oils has been effected by this change over. Stay away from all CJ-4 rated diesel oil's (Dyno or Synthetic) for your power equipment. All CJ-4 rated oils has reduced zinc and moly and with these hot running air cooled engines could spell trouble.

Some of the best oils to run for power equipment made by AMSOIL. They still have a good amount of Zinc and Moly present.

They are as follows:

AMSOIL Series 3000 100% Synthetic 5W-30 Diesel Oil (HDD)
AMSOIL Synthetic 10W-30/SAE 30 Diesel Oil (ACD)
AMSOIL Synthetic 15W-40 Heavy Duty Diesel & Marine Motor Oil (AME)

AMSOIL Formula 4-Stroke® 10W-30/SAE30 Small Engine Oil (ASE) I personaly run this stuff because it has the lowest evaperation rate.

AND in some Cases AMSOIL Formula 4-Stroke® 0W-40 Power Sports Synthetic Motor Oil (AFF)


Here are the specs. on the oil that LwnmwrMan22 runs. It is a great oil.

TYPICAL TECHNICAL PROPERTIES

AMSOIL Synthetic SAE 15W-40 Heavy-Duty Diesel and Marine Motor Oil (AME)

Kinematic Viscosity @ 100°C, cSt (ASTM D-445)
14.4

Kinematic Viscosity @ 40°C, cSt (ASTM D-445)
89.7

Viscosity Index (ASTM D-2270)
167

CCS Viscosity @ -20°C, cP (ASTM D-5293)
4477

Pour Point °C (°F) (ASTM D-97)
-42 (-44)

Flash Point °C (°F) (ASTM D-92)
234 (453)

Four Ball Wear Test (ASTM D-4172B: 40 kg, 75°C, 1200 rpm, 1 hour), Scar, mm
0.35

Noack Volatility, % weight loss (g/100g) (ASTM D-5800) 6.8

High Temperature/High Shear Viscosity
(ASTM D-4683 @ 150°C, 1.0 X 106 s.-1, cP
4.4

Total Base Number
12.1

[LwnmwrMan22]

AMSOIL (AME)15W-40 is a great oil. for gas power equipment also. One of the things that most people do not get informed about when purchasing most newer class of gas engine and some diesel oils is the oil companies are being forced to reduce the amount of zinc and moly that is present in oil's. AMSOIL is one of the companies that will inform their customers that ask which oils has been effected by this change over. Stay away from all CJ-4 rated diesel oil's (Dyno or Synthetic) for your power equipment. All CJ-4 rated oils has reduced zinc and moly and with these hot running air cooled engines could spell trouble.

Some of the best oils to run for power equipment made by AMSOIL. They still have a good amount of Zinc and Moly present.

They are as follows:

AMSOIL Series 3000 100% Synthetic 5W-30 Diesel Oil (HDD)
AMSOIL Synthetic 10W-30/SAE 30 Diesel Oil (ACD)
AMSOIL Synthetic 15W-40 Heavy Duty Diesel & Marine Motor Oil (AME)

AMSOIL Formula 4-Stroke® 10W-30/SAE30 Small Engine Oil (ASE) I personaly run this stuff because it has the lowest evaperation rate.

AND in some Cases AMSOIL Formula 4-Stroke® 0W-40 Power Sports Synthetic Motor Oil (AFF)


Here are the specs. on the oil that LwnmwrMan22 runs. It is a great oil.

TYPICAL TECHNICAL PROPERTIES

AMSOIL Synthetic SAE 15W-40 Heavy-Duty Diesel and Marine Motor Oil (AME)

Kinematic Viscosity @ 100°C, cSt (ASTM D-445)
14.4

Kinematic Viscosity @ 40°C, cSt (ASTM D-445)
89.7

Viscosity Index (ASTM D-2270)
167

CCS Viscosity @ -20°C, cP (ASTM D-5293)
4477

Pour Point °C (°F) (ASTM D-97)
-42 (-44)

Flash Point °C (°F) (ASTM D-92)
234 (453)

Four Ball Wear Test (ASTM D-4172B: 40 kg, 75°C, 1200 rpm, 1 hour), Scar, mm
0.35

Noack Volatility, % weight loss (g/100g) (ASTM D-5800) 6.8

High Temperature/High Shear Viscosity
(ASTM D-4683 @ 150°C, 1.0 X 106 s.-1, cP
4.4

Total Base Number
12.1

Plus people need to realize that even all of the higher end autos now are going to a 10k mile oil change, at least no less than 5k.

[Envy Lawn Service]

Well, since this thread has been revived from a couple of years ago, here was the original post #1....

What is the typical break-in procedure for a mower's engine, to gain the best gas mileage and longevity?

Also, how many hours of operation are typically necessary for an engine to be considered "broken in"? I want to switch over to synthetic oil, but not before the engine is fully broken in.

...And I have found out that the end-all-end answer to this is no longer what it was years ago... due to changes in engine manufacturing.

You don't baby engines around anymore during break-in or run them with synthetic oils. I've done this and it was a mistake.

Today, you should fire a new engine, ensure everything is working OK, then proceed to flog the pizz out of it. Run it like you stole it. In other words break it in HARD... like you are going to use it HARD in the future.

And break it in on the correct viscosity dino oil for the application!

Doing otherwise from this will delay break-in and can also lead to weak break-in.

In other words, baby it around, run synthetics, etc during break-in and you'll loose the opportunity for optimal break-in, peak ring performance and peak compression... and fuel economy.

Run hard 5-10 hours on dino... drain
Run to 25 hours... drain

The above will flush most of the early particles.
Then run until you are certain the hard break-in is complete.

The best ways to guage break-in is by monitoring peak RPM, fuel consumption and the feel of the power. If you can't hear it, feel it, or see it... usually you can find it by a change in fuel consumption.

Then you can switch over to synthetic if you want to.

I'm trying some myself now due to spiking prices in dino oil over time...
And until it proves me wrong, my opinion is that it's probably a WASTE OF MONEY.

Most of these air cooled gas engines are simply just too DIRTY and operate in too DIRTY of an environment to get a benefit. In other words, the oil gets too dirty too fast and needs changing too soon for it to even matter what type the oil is.

[EMTDUCK1984]

Typical Break In Is 100 Hrs The Car Industry Is Alittle Different But Ive Seen Good Results In Waiting The 100hrs If It Is A Kohler Command Use 10w30

[J&R Landscaping]

For diesel pick-ups, the make an oil bypass filter that will suposedly allow you to go 10000-15000 miles between changes. I'm not sure I beleive it but though I would put it out there.

For mower engines, my dealer will run the enigne in for a minimum of 3 hours with standard 30 weight oil then change it before delivery and put the Mobil 1 10-30 synthetic oil in it.

[Greenscapes, LLC]

ive been running amsoil synthetic in my 2005 silverado since day one and no problems i get about 7500 miles per oil change.Im also an autorized dealer for amsoil so if anyone is interested in purchasing amsoil just PM or visit my site at http://www.lubedealer.com/1345185/

[willietd2]

What do you work for Mobile or some thing or are you just a know it all smart ass?

I think you guys should not hold back,i mean tell us how you really feel

[willietd2]

Before you all start getting on your high horse and talking crap about that you great great grand pappy used such an oil so its must be good do some research.

I have posted this link many times, which is posted in this thread www.bobistheoilguy.com they have a forum section that you can learn alot from.

I dont spend $6 a quart on oil I spend about $3 to $3.25 on a syn. oil.

The reason for UOA is to determine what is in the oil and how it has broken down. High amounts of silicon will be the result of dirt consumption. Therefore you check and fix the problem before it gets out of hand.

You talk about ME working for Mobil, or listening to what a big oil company tells me and the next breath you talk about how you should change oil every 3k miles. That is from the oil manufactures and the ol jiffy lube. Most of the dino oil out today still has life left after 3k miles. Dont go by only dirt in your oil cause that can be rare, what is your TBN at after 3k miles, how is your additive package? And to laugh about an additive package means you are an idiot!!! ALL oils have additive packages! Even dino oil!

So before you all act like you are so smart do some research. Find out what oil works best for the type of engine you have wether its dino or syn.

PS ~ I also use chevron supreme dino oil in some applications, I am not saying dino oil is bad just that syn. is a better product! I mix my syn. oil for my car depending on time of year. And the Chevron oil I buy is $1 a quart if your spendin $2.19 you may want to rethink your decision since you like to save so much money!

where are you getting full syn for 3.00 or 3.25. i can get blend for that but not full. full castrol cost me 6.00

[causalitist]

Hey guy's,

I change my oil and oil filter every 50 hours and clean the air filter at the end of each day.

For my piece of mind this is the oil I run.

Some of the best specs. on the market.

u guys run the AMSOIL Formula 4-Stroke® huh? .. ive been going with the
series 2000 0w-30 .. the formula 4 is alot cheaper, i've been thinking of switching.

i do agree to an extend with whoever said our engines run too dirty to benefit from these oils.. i agree in that it might be wastefull to buy the super expensive series 2000 0w-30 for a mower since you would likely change it long before the additives were used up.

so i probabily will "downgrade" to formula 4 ...

now in the vehicles however, its series 2000 0w-30 all the way since then i actually can wait 35,000 miles to change it.

oh ya.. have you guys that use amsoil been able to find an amsoil "Ae" oil filter that fits your mower? i was able to for my 48" snapper WB ... just curious if they make ones that fit most machines.

[hwew]

Yes there are oil filters available.
For my Kawasaki engine it takes a Kawasaki # 49065-2078. My total price is $8.55

Amsoil / Wix # of EA009 and are you ready? Min. Sugested Retail Price is $15.30.

I run Kawasaki Filters.

[hwew]

Manufacturer Code: 490652078

Manufacturer Name: Kawasaki

AMSOIL Part: EA009

AMSOIL Note: Fits GM (85-05), Daihatsu (88-92), Infiniti (91-96), Nissan (91-95), Toyota (80-05), Scion (04-05)

[hwew]

Hey I found out that a Wix filter # 51394 crosses over to Kawasaki 49065-2078 and it is only $6.17

[ProStreetCamaro]

I hate to say it but alot of you change your oil way to often in your mowers. Is that a bad thing? NO but you are going over board.

Let me give you an example.

My father started in this business when I was pretty young. After a couple years with 2 36" WB's he went out and got a new Gravely pro 50 WB with the Kohler magnum 18hp engine. He used and kept that mower through 3,200 hours of hard use. In those 3,200 hours of hard use it received 2 oil changes with the cheapest oil money could buy and it still ran fine when he sold it to a friend. That guy then used it for his own lawn and it still runs fine today.

Once I got a little older (around 16) I started to take care of the equipment myself. Now our mowers get changed 2-3 time a year. I am now 28 and we have never had an engine failure, never had an engine consume oil, never had an engine loose power or any kind of engine problems at all. I use mobile 1 in all our mowers and I can change the oil in the spring and by mid summer the oil is just starting to look a little discolored. Thats when I change the oil and filter.

Facts

1. Synthetic runs cooler which is the key to air cooled engines.
2. Synthetics maintain viscosity better for cold starts and hot days.
3. Synthetic is slicker and reduces engine wear (the reason you should break an engine in before synthetic is used)
4. Synthetic have better detergents to keep the engine cleaner
5. Synthetics do not sluge up
6. Synthetics do not break down as quicly as dino oil.

I have 2 friends that have both been top notch mechanics that own there own shops for over 30 years. Both of them will only use Mobil1. 1 of which changes his own oil every 25,000 on his suburban which now has 200,000 miles on it and runs like it did brand new.


So in other words you guys can waste your time here on earth changeing your mowers oil every week and I will spend it with the ones I love or doing things I want to do and change mine twice a year and have my equipment last just as long if not longer than yours.

[TSG]

Amen to that,,,,,they aint your grandfathers corvair
Alan

[hwew]

We might be waisting our time but at least we can sleep at night.
Let me know when your truck gets over 576,000 miles. (1984 Mazda B2200 Diesel Pickup over 576,000 before the truck became unsafe to drive from rust) Then we can sit down and talk about oil changes. I only ran Shell rotella 15w-40 Dino.

[hwew]

Oh, I love Corvairs. You can make them very reliable with updated seals and pushrod tubes. The origionals always leaked. The engines are still used in some kit planes safely. But I will stay on the ground with one of those engines. Overall at the time the Corvair was a better car than the Volkswagon Beatle was. Too bad Ralph Nader killed production. The Beatle should of been killed first.

[Lennon's Lawn Care]

You should never run synthetic oils until engine is past it's break-in period. Synthetic oil is to slick and will glaze the cylinder walls and prevent the rings from sealing. This would cause you to burn some high dollar oil for the life of the engine. Now that being said, synthetic oils will last longer before breaking down but if you change your oil as often as recommended it doesn't really matter what kind of oil you use. Hope that helps.

[hwew]

Ok guy's we got off track on this fourm. I believe it is best to break in any engine first with recommended oil. Some call for Dino and now a days some are switching saying to use Synthetic from the start in the auto industry.
Synthetic has some great advanteges over dino. But one disadvantage is longer break in. Break in is important to any engine. The engine needs to be ran for a while for the bearing surfaces to polish. But with most engines the bearings are preasure fed. But one of the most important things is ring seating. The engine needs to to be loaded properly at differant level's of load and RPM's to break in properly and that is the advantage of dino oil. It still protects the bearings but in the same time there is not quite as much protection as synthetic oil so you get faster break in. And that is good for us that need to load up our equipment A.S.A.P. After break in this is where Synthetic shines.

[hwew]

Hey I found out that a Wix filter # 51394 crosses over to Kawasaki 49065-2078 and it is only $6.17

Guy's I found out some neat stuff. Wix filter # 51396 is about 1/2" longer than 51394. Everything else is built the same. More length and possibly more filter medea for the same price.

Oh, they had AMSOIL filter EA009 which crosses to 51394 and the dealer and I looked at them and they were axactly the same from color, build and markings. I don't know about the filter medea. I know Wix makes the filter for AMSOIL.

I thought this would be some good info. I guess I will be changing from Kawasaki filter # 49065-2078 to Wix filter # 51396.

Will it make a difference. I don't know. All I know it is a great price.

[EMTDUCK1984]

Hope Its Already Out Of Warranty Cause Kawi Doesnt Warranty Wix

[hwew]

I thought that was illegal to do. Do you have any document from Kawasaki to show this? I thought it ran into the same catagory as motor oil. Manufactuers cannot tell you that you can only run ther oil. As long as the oil falls in the guidelines of the manufactures specs. I think filters might be the same. But before I say anything else about it I will look into it.

Can anyone else help on this?

[Envy Lawn Service]

Hope Its Already Out Of Warranty Cause Kawi Doesnt Warranty Wix

They can't force you to run their oil and filters for warranty purposes.

[Envy Lawn Service]

I use mobile 1 in all our mowers and I can change the oil in the spring and by mid summer the oil is just starting to look a little discolored. Thats when I change the oil and filter.

Facts

1. Synthetic runs cooler which is the key to air cooled engines.


I switched to a cheap synthetic in the fall due to the fact of spiking dino oil prices... so I figured why not try the cheaper synthetic for just a bit more.

I myself have been hoping the oil will continue to 'look good' for a long enough period to extend oil drains. But frankly I have always assumed the dirtiness and smell of the oil was a result of combustion blow-by... dust ingestion... etc.

But maybe that is not entirely true in all cases?
Could be that dino oil just darkens faster?

*************************************

Where is the info available about synthetics running cooler?
I can see that as a benefit to air cooled engines.

[ProStreetCamaro]

I switched to a cheap synthetic in the fall due to the fact of spiking dino oil prices... so I figured why not try the cheaper synthetic for just a bit more.

I myself have been hoping the oil will continue to 'look good' for a long enough period to extend oil drains. But frankly I have always assumed the dirtiness and smell of the oil was a result of combustion blow-by... dust ingestion... etc.

But maybe that is not entirely true in all cases?
Could be that dino oil just darkens faster?

*************************************

Where is the info available about synthetics running cooler?
I can see that as a benefit to air cooled engines.


I think dino oil does discolor faster than synthetic because it cant tolerate the higher temps as well as the synthetic can. Some of it may be blow by but as far as the dust goes I really don't see that as an issue because as long as the filter is fresh and sealed properly then the engine should not be getting dust and dirt ingested.

Lets think about this for a second. If an engine is drawing in dust and dirt it HAS to enter through the carb which means it will enter the combustion chamber. Most of that will be expelled during the exhaust stroke. Whats not expelled may sit on the top of the piston or the rings. Almost non of it should make its way to the oil because it should never come in contact with the oil. Its almost impossible for it to get by the rings because they are seated tightly against the cylinder wall. What it could do is score the cylinder wall over time but very little of it should enter the oil.

I would say the air filter is the most critical part of these small engines longevity more so than the oil changes are.

1.Run the best oil and filter money can by for longer engine life and longer run times before an oil change is needed.

2. Service and check the air filtration system weekly

This will make these small engines last a very long time more so than a weekly oil change which is just ******ed.

[EMTDUCK1984]

No They Cant Force You To Use Their Filter But They Can Deny A Claim If They Can Prove That The Aftermarket Filter Didnt Do The Same Job As The Original

[TurfDesign Eric]

Well, this afternoon, I spoke to American Honda, and Mobil Oil Co. At Honda, it was a tech, and at Mobil I believe he was more of a salesperson than a tech. They both told me that from day one you can use synthetic oil in the engines, without the need for breaking in rings, cylinders, or valve seats. This is all news to me, but that's what I was told. The Mobil guy did tell me that new Corvettes, Aston Martins, AMG Mercedes, Mitsubishi, Vipers have Mobil 1 installed at the factory. He also said not to use it in Mazda rotary engines, and curiously, in 2004 VW diesels.

I just found contradiction in this whole arguement. I used to be a service advisor for a VW dealer, the diesels REQUIRE a specific type of synthetic oil, type 505.01. ANY other type of oil used, synthetic or not, will void the engine warranty if a problem arises from its use. The manufacturer can do chemical tests on both the oil & deposits in the engine to determine whether this is the case.

My advise is to follow the engine manufacturer's specifications. If they specifiy strictly synthetic, then thats what you stick with. If the owners manual says you can use either, then it's up to you.

[hwew]

When I get time tonight I will start a new fourm about the laws of running aftermarket filters. This should clear everything up.

Look for it.

[EMTDUCK1984]

In Most Cases Ive Seen Its Not A Problem But If Kawasaki Wanted To They Could Ask For It Back They Could Say The Filter Was The Cause

[jetengine]

I have used Moble 1 (10-30) in all my machines since new,8 hp snowblower,5 hp mower,5 hp chipper/shredder and 12.5 hp lawn tractor.I change oil every season with no adverse effects...All machines are at least 8 yrs. old,and all start on the first pull.When I drain the oil I rub my fingers through it and feel no grit at all,I'll pay the extra dollars for the extra lifetime.
jetengine

[caseymax]

Has anybody been running Lucas oil. We have been using it for the last 1500 hrs. Very pleased. Use the same oil in the hydraulic pump. Dixie Chopper

[Stillwater]

No their is no desire to use that, but i want to ask why are you using it did you have problems

[topsites]

If you read the Owner's manual it will tell you.
I think it's 8 hours then change the oil, the first time.
Most folks recommend run dino the first 8, then switch to synth...

But...

Modern ring and honing techniques are such that a break in period is not neccesary. According to the local Yamaha folks you want to get the Synthetic's in BEFORE you have any cylinder wear. My new mowers recieved a immediate uprade to synthetics and experianced no ill effects. 4 cycle or two cycle.

I'm doing it too, straight synth right off the bat.

To me break-in was described as "You run it the way you will be running it long-term"
so as to burn the memory of this use into the engine.
So, I do.

Not like cars, and even those things more than a few run synth from the factory.