Hustler Z / Super Z deck improvements

[mowerconsultant]

Here is the info I have to date.
We have a new deck design on our Hustler Z’s and Super Z’s
We have gone to a flat blade, compared to our old style which was an offset blade.
We have also enlarged the discharge opening.
The new blades have a hardened cutting edge referred to as a Fusion blade. Also, the cutting edge has been lengthened to cut the grass finer.

These are the part #'s for the new style blade we are starting to use.
52” decks 795526
60” decks 795252
72” decks 795260

You can make this blade change on your current unit.

All decks going from the old style blade to the new flat blade will require this > Part # 352542 Blade spacer kit (Each kit will do one complete deck.)

Many people at the Louisville Expo and the GIE happened to see this new blade and an experimental second blade on a unit we had on display, this second blade is not available currently, we are doing more testing with it.

These changes are only taking place on the full frame Hustler Z’s, Super Z's and Diesel Super Z’s (52”, 60” and 72”) at this time.

These units are just starting to get to warehouses and some dealers, not all dealers will have these soon, there still is some old style in the system.


A couple notes:

New mulch kits are available for the new decks. These mulch kits will fit the new decks with the wider discharge openings and older decks that have had the discharge opening enlarged.
52” decks 352435 Mulch kit
60” decks 352427 Mulch kit
72” decks 352419 Mulch kit

If you have an older deck with a mulch kit and you wish to modify the discharge opening you will need to order the following adapter plate before the existing mulch kit will work.
52” decks 352336 Adapter plate
60” decks 101071 Adapter plate
72” decks 101089 Adapter plate

You will also need to order the above adapter plates if a Bac-Vac blower has been installed on an older deck with the discharge opening enlarged. New Bac-Vac’s will have the adapter plate included with them.


Hope this helps

Pj

[joallen001]

Is there a way to enlarge the discharge on the decks we have now

[JLH]

I had a dealer in North Carolina to order me a Super Z 60/28 EFI yesterday.

I think he said the distributor was in Virginia. Will I get the new type deck? If not what can I do at this point.

My dealer told me yesterday that he was not sure when the mower would ship from distributor.

Is there a price difference from old style deck to new style deck?

Thanks

[mowerconsultant]

Is there a way to enlarge the discharge on the decks we have now

Yes you can.
E-mail me for information.

Pj

[mowerconsultant]

I had a dealer in North Carolina to order me a Super Z 60/28 EFI yesterday.

I think he said the distributor was in Virginia. Will I get the new type deck? If not what can I do at this point.

My dealer told me yesterday that he was not sure when the mower would ship from distributor.

Is there a price difference from old style deck to new style deck?

Thanks

Not sure if you will get the new style deck, there is still inventory out there of the old style.
There is no price difference.

Pj

[Soupy]

PJ, are the mowers being shipped now come with the new blades even if it is still the older deck. I ordered a Hustler a couple of Saturdays ago (not sure if that is when my dealer ordered it, that is when I paid for it). I know you answered the part about the new deck, but wondering if the new blades will come with it.

Does the blow out baffle change on the new decks?

Thanks,
Soupy

[markindetroit]

Can you post a picture of the new deck compared to the old deck . Similar view of the enlarged openings and an old deck with the adapter in place would be great.

[mickeyg]

Can you post pics of the new deck, above and under and of the new blades?

[mowerconsultant]

PJ, are the mowers being shipped now come with the new blades even if it is still the older deck. I ordered a Hustler a couple of Saturdays ago (not sure if that is when my dealer ordered it, that is when I paid for it). I know you answered the part about the new deck, but wondering if the new blades will come with it.

Does the blow out baffle change on the new decks?

Thanks,
Soupy

We are shipping the new deck on units leaving the factory.
We have warehouses all over the US that still have units in them, some dealers will get the new deck sooner than others.
Check with your dealer, he can contact his warehouse and find out which he is getting.
The old decks have the old blades in them still, you can put the new blades with spacer in the old deck.

Pj

[mowerconsultant]

This is the only picture I have to post.
You can see the larger opening and the new style flat blade sharpened almost to the center.
.

[mowerconsultant]

Does the blow out baffle change on the new decks?

Not that I am aware of, but I will ask the person that would know.

Pj

[Gautreaux's LNG]

Can a dealer get Fusion blades from Hustler?

[mowerconsultant]

Can a dealer get Fusion blades from Hustler?

The new blades we are using are Fusions.
You can order the above part #'s from your distributor.

Pj

[joallen001]

I performed the deck mod on my hustler. I can definaltely tell a difference. I will soon have the spacers for my blades. Hopefully that will fix all the problems.

[Doc Pete]

I performed the deck mod on my hustler. I can definaltely tell a difference. I will soon have the spacers for my blades. Hopefully that will fix all the problems.

I've been running the so called deck mod on my WB's for more than a year with great results. Keep in mind the idea is also to get the grass out of the deck as fast as possible. This means gators blades with give poorer performance because of there less lift, and also because they chop the grass into small pieces allowing clumping to occur easier.
I haven't seen the new blades yet, but if they are similar to the protos I've tested, you may want to "round the inside top end" of the blade sail, since wet grass with collect on it and spit off as clumps. Furthermore, you will also find that without the small last blade chute baffle, grass will collect on the edge of the rear chute opening and again come off as a clumps, from time to time. After much testing with the baffle off and on, I ended putting my baffle back on with better results in wet grass.
Pete

[mowerconsultant]

Pete,
The blades are different than what you were making / testing.
Also, these decks do not have the discharge baffle like the walks do, they did a few years ago, but we have since stopped using it.

Pj

[Doc Pete]

Pete,
The blades are different than what you were making / testing.
Also, these decks do not have the discharge baffle like the walks do, they did a few years ago, but we have since stopped using it.

Pj

Yes, I know. Thanks. I had a long talk with Brian about the disharge baffle. I was going to send him a video of the chute in wet grass, but we agreed most guy's wouldn't be cutting in the wet.
In most cases it's not needed. However, when it's wet, the grass hangs on the end of the top lip of chute and blows off about every 50ft. leaving small golfball size clumps.
FWIW, most guy's wouldn't see it, but me being the way I am, I just didn't want it. Reinstalling the baffle fixed the problem.
FYI, "all blades" that have a "cut" sail "to some extent" have the grass build up on the inside sail portion. This is one of the reasons the "bent" sail is better (no build up), but it's too hard to add a high enough sail that way.
I'll have to see the new blades ASAP.
Finally, though the grass build up goes "unnoticed" much of the time, the "drag" it imparts to the blades is the reason guy's wonder why their machine may slow down "AFTER" going through heavy grass and not "during it".
In other words, the machine will cut the heavy grass no problem, but when it hangs on the blades another 4 or 5 seconds, the drag slows the machine down even though you're done cutting the heavy patch.
Pete

[Envy Lawn Service]

PJ,

Well, I'm surprised. I thought the gullwing blades would never go away. The spacer and straight Fusion blade is another step in the right direction I believe. Maybe those with the old deck opening should try this blade and spacer first before they are content to go hacking on the opening?

Anyways, I wanted to ask about the mulch kit... did they actually update the design of the blade arcs on the baffles and pre-drill the new decks?

Thanks

[mowerconsultant]

Anyways, I wanted to ask about the mulch kit... did they actually update the design of the blade arcs on the baffles and pre-drill the new decks?

Thanks

The only thing in the mulch kit that changed is the closure plate, no need to change the baffles, the blades are the same length and run the in the same position as they did before (height in the deck).
Our decks have always had pilot holes to drill up to size for installing a mulch kit.

Pj

[Doc Pete]

PJ,

Well, I'm surprised. I thought the gullwing blades would never go away. The spacer and straight Fusion blade is another step in the right direction I believe. Maybe those with the old deck opening should try this blade and spacer first before they are content to go hacking on the opening?

FYI, I've already done that...........whether the blades are straight or not makes no difference.

Basically cutting/clumping is simple physics. Solving the problem is something else (G). Simply, when you cut “X” amount of grass, X amount must come out of the chute. From my experience, much of the clumping is “manufactured” under the deck. IOW, if the grass didn’t “collect” in/up/around parts of the deck, it would just exit without clumping. However, because manufacturer’s haven’t videoed the deck during cutting, they don’t realize this is where the problem is.
With the experimenting I’ve done, it has become apparent this where the clumping begins.
Doubles increase clumping by chopping the grass finer. However, doubles also increase air speed which tends to clean the deck. Hmmmmm, another dilemma (G). A higher sail great helps air speed, while not increasing the chopping effect. IOW, very large/high sail, Good!. However, now we have high velocity air/grass discharge. Bad and good. First, the higher velocity disperses the grass better for a nicer looking lawn, good, but you now need the space/area to do that. That’s the bad part.
Frankly, I believe that a duel exiting deck (left and right), with super high lift single blades is the solution.
This combo will minimize the time grass spends under the deck being pulverized, plus basically “doubling” the size of the will also cut the exit velocity of air/grass in half, too.

In conclusion, I realize you say you've solved the problem. Just so we don't hash over things again, please either offer the solution, or don't bother us with hearsay.......
And, as I've suggested, if you have the answer, patent it, and retire as a millionaire.
thanks,
Pete

[Tonyr]

Hi PJ,

can you tell me the specs of these new blades please?

I.E diametre of centre hole, and cut tip point, to cut tip point length...

I'm keen to try them on my Toro when they arrive over here, be interesting to try. btw, blade for 60'' deck I mean...

[Envy Lawn Service]

Pete,

You are onto part of it with the blade sails. But it does go further into overall design. I wish I had means to manufacture several different blades on a small scale. But I don't. So likewise I have tested many of the styles out there. Anyways, this fusion blade sounds good from the literature and don't knock it's straight design before you try it.

As far as my deck work, I will be seeking a patent. In fact I should have already, but I've just kept tinkering away at several other aspects beyond just eliminating side discharge clumping. I have been able to manipulate discharge distance along with it. Plus I've stopped dumping and clumping while mulching also. I was going to wait and work on an OCDC system to go along with it that would work as well as people wish it would, so you could close it and mulch around things, then open it on the go and let it fly out in the wide open.

But I think it is time to stop and get the red tape taken care of. Then attempt further development.

I like Hustler 110% and in fact, I would have liked to see them get everything I had in mind for Hustler Turf Equipment CHEAP. But I was not able to stir any interest at all. I guess they are content? I dunno. So maybe I'll get my patent and move on to someone interested.

Now, not meaning to be rude or offensive in any way to you or Hustler but....
It seems to me that the both of you ARE content...
Content to beat a dead horse trying to improve on this deck design.

I'm not saying that to be a butthole, menace, or whatever. I say that with passion because I think it's a crying shame. Hustler has everything else going for them in the world, except a few small thorns in their side. They have a great product, great customer service and even better people. For that, no other company deserves more to be at the top of the heap. I can see why you are a loyal owner Pete....

I can't think of another company that takes care of it's owners like Hustler does!
That means a lot in my book!

[WLLD]

PJ,
How does opening the discharge area on old units effect those with the back-vac? I looked at the opening on my 60" - the mounting holes for the pivot pin that holds the impeller & housing are pretty close to the edge of the opening. Is there something to adapt the mounting of the pivot pin?

Thanks,
Shayne

[mowerconsultant]

PJ,
How does opening the discharge area on old units effect those with the back-vac? I looked at the opening on my 60" - the mounting holes for the pivot pin that holds the impeller & housing are pretty close to the edge of the opening. Is there something to adapt the mounting of the pivot pin?

Thanks,
Shayne

Once you have opened up your discharge opening, you will need the adapter listed in the first post of this thread, it will allow you to bolt on your pin for mounting the Bac-Vac.

Pj

[Doc Pete]

Pete,


Now, not meaning to be rude or offensive in any way to you or Hustler but....
It seems to me that the both of you ARE content...
Content to beat a dead horse trying to improve on this deck design.


Well...... as they say, if you have lemons, make lemonade. At the moment, the slight drawback of finding enough room to throw the grass, is overshadowed by the many advantages of using the mower like a ground blower for street/driveway cleaning. Also, the incredible productivity of 25hp on a 48" deck being used to mow, pulverize, suck up and blow, all in one step for fall/spring cleanups, is good enough for the time being. Of course, it would be nice to cut "some lawns" without worrying about throwing grass on the neighbor's "roof" (G), but until you're patent becomes a reality (which I hope is soon), My custom Hustlers are just peachy.

Actually, I wish I had the time to tinker as you :D. I'm really glad you're going through with something. Hell, I don't care who finds the key, I'll buy it.
I have been using straight blades, and really didn't find a difference, with the deck I'm using, that is. HOWEVER, as with the blades I've designed (taller sail), I believe part of the advantage of a straight blade is it raises the airflow closer to the top of the deck and aids in moving the grass out the deck instead of allowing the grass to "bounce around" in the middle, before exiting.
Frankly, I can see something more like a snowblower impeller, which throws the grass out as fast as the cutting blades cut it. You would want 2to1 reduction (or more) in the impeller (to reduce power consumption) which would be at the top of the deck for strickly exiting the grass, and standard speed blades lower in the deck (normal height) for actually cutting the grass. You could use a planetary gear setup for the slow speed impeller and higher speed cutting blades.

[Envy Lawn Service]

Pete,

Yeah, I like the advantages of side discharge. I just don't like it while actually mowing grass. It's hard for me to see how I made it without a mulch kit. I can't see how you guys stand it, nor can I see how I put up with it over the years. So yeah, I'm real picky about side discharge. I don't like the discharge part PERIOD because of the mess to clean up and the increased likelyhood of an incident. I hate clumping and I hate getting clippings in the beds. Plus it's aggrivating trying to avoid throwing clippings where you do not want them. I also hate the "hay field look" from clippings that do not disappear due to clipping length or volume, and the sucessive chop-n-spread passes after the grass is cut that kill productivity.

So I thought I would spend some of my winter and weekends trying to address all the issues. Then test. I've had the basics completed a long time now. I've just been trying to add more to it. All in all, I think I've created something that everyone will appreciate.

However, I really must admit, this patent stuff is really intimidating. I never really realized how much this is so until I started digging into it. It seems to me you have to be VERY careful and thorough in the process in order to protect your work. Otherwise you have a patent that really isn't worth much because someone can find a loop hole.

My search for a patent attorney has also been unsuccessful to this point. It seems there are no resources of any kind in this area for this type of thing. Errrrr!!!

Do you have any advice you could offer me on this patent thing? I know this is worth a lot of money and I want to protect my interest in it. But I have no means to mass produce it as an aftermarket piece, much less anything beyond that. I just want to see a quality MFG put it in the field.

[Doc Pete]

Pete,

Yeah, I like the advantages of side discharge. I just don't like it while actually mowing grass. It's hard for me to see how I made it without a mulch kit. I can't see how you guys stand it, nor can I see how I put up with it over the years. So yeah, I'm real picky about side discharge. I don't like the discharge part PERIOD because of the mess to clean up and the increased likelyhood of an incident..

FWIW, I agree with that 100%.... I wish we could have a mower that would make the clippings just disappear (G).

OTOH, I have trees that drop leaves and/or flower petals, and at that time it's nice to dishcharge/blow and clean the lawn without hitting the customer for an extra cleanup. Not that I don't like making extra money, but many of my customers are over 10 year old accounts and I'd like to think it's because I don't try to wring every penny out of them (G).

[Doc Pete]

Do you have any advice you could offer me on this patent thing? I know this is worth a lot of money and I want to protect my interest in it. But I have no means to mass produce it as an aftermarket piece, much less anything beyond that. I just want to see a quality MFG put it in the field.


Well, if you look the problem with Hustler/Shortcut and the Wright stander, etc. you can see the whole patent thing is scary. Furthermore, if someone can use your idea and change it just a bit, then they can basically copy you say it not the same thing.
FWIW,
You may know I make a little Transmitter holder for R/C equipment. I didn't bother to patent it. However, I still have the market on this item because no one can make it better or cheaper than I can. The kicker is that because there's not a lot of money in the item, the big boys can't be bothered by trying to compete with me, since I make it in my garage with no overhead.
I'd be glad to talk more if I can help.

You can email me: Switchless@aol.com.

FYI, I have a great welder who does small manufacturing for companies like Verizon and Ethicon, etc. He may be the guy to help you start making "whatever" you have and just test the waters. I don't know if what you have is a "concept" or actually a part for mowing, so I don't know if he can actually help.
Thanks,
Pete

[Tonyr]

good on ya Envy, you certainly have my attention! :waving:

[Matt Horne]

Mowerconsultant - will the blades designed here for the 52 inch decks also work in the Fastrak with the 52 inch deck?

Thanks

Matt

[mowerconsultant]

The FasTrak and Mini Z and Super Mini Z already have flat blades, only difference is the cutting edge, on the new style blades the cutting edge is almost to the center of the blade.
I am not sure if the new blade for the full frame 52" units will work on the FasTraks and Mini's.
I will find out though.

Pj

[Matt Horne]

Thanks PJ. If they work I would like to give them a try. I am running doubles right now (gators on top, hi-lifts on bottom), but would prefer to run one set - if these do the trick I will pick them up.

Matt

[mowerconsultant]

I am being told that the new style blade will work on the Mini's and Super Mini's.

Oj

[Cutter lawns]

I have an 03 super mini z and read in a prevoius thread that the blades would not work on that machine. Is this due to the year or was I miss informed? I think my blade sizes were a little different than the full size deck. I would be very interested in purchasing these blades.

Thank you,
Cutter LLC

[mowerconsultant]

I have an 03 super mini z and read in a prevoius thread that the blades would not work on that machine. Is this due to the year or was I miss informed? I think my blade sizes were a little different than the full size deck. I would be very interested in purchasing these blades.

Thank you,
Cutter LLC

They will work fine.

[Matt Horne]

PJ, don't mean to be daft here, but you state the new blade with work with the mini and super mini - does that mean it will NOT work with the Fastrak with the 52 inch deck?

Thanks
Matt

[mowerconsultant]

It will work.

Pj

[Shady Brook]

I bought the new blades and was not overly impressed by them. They work fine, but do not approach the effectiveness of doubles. I also did not find them any better at cutting stalky stuff either. Just my experience.

[Doc Pete]

I bought the new blades and was not overly impressed by them. They work fine, but do not approach the effectiveness of doubles. I also did not find them any better at cutting stalky stuff either. Just my experience.

True,
Hustler is always a bit too cautious when making changes. I recieved some prototype blades from Hustler last year, which in their stock form would'nt have filled the bill.
The problem, I found, was the large sail made so much noise it was unacceptable. HOWEVER...... the good news is I reshaped the sail and "presto" all the noise stopped and now these blades are killer great.
At the moment, Hustler has chosen to take small steps and go from the bent blade to the straight blade. Hopefully the next step will be the larger rounded sail.
Pete

[gene gls]

I tried the new Hustler flat blade on my 60" Super Z and couldn't tell any differance from the oreginal blade. I put a set of Everride 60" blades on my Z and now there is a differance. They are flat with a turned up high sail. The hole is 9/16" and has to be enlarged to 5/8".

Gene

[mowerconsultant]

Gene,
Did you have the spacers installed? do you have your discharge opening opened up to the larger opening?

Pj

[Doc Pete]

I tried the new Hustler flat blade on my 60" Super Z and couldn't tell any differance from the oreginal blade. I put a set of Everride 60" blades on my Z and now there is a differance. They are flat with a turned up high sail. The hole is 9/16" and has to be enlarged to 5/8".

Gene

Gene,
The proto blades I'm using are superlift flat blades, and they work great. I truly hope I can convince Hustler to offer the same type of blade as the samples I recieved. I have pictures, but this forum doesn't seem to allow pictures.
Hey PJ. How do we get to have pictures on the forum?
Thanks,
Pete

[mowerconsultant]

Just attach the pictures as you would in any other part of LS, underneath your reply box is a "manage attachments" button, click on it and attach them as files.
You can also put your pics on a photo hosting site (I use www.Photobucket.com) and you can use img code and post them that way also.
After you have posted your post and images go into the regular holding que here, and I will release them when I am releasing other posts.

Pj

[Doc Pete]

Just attach the pictures as you would in any other part of LS, underneath your reply box is a "manage attachments" button, click on it and attach them as files.
You can also put your pics on a photo hosting site (I use www.Photobucket.com) and you can use img code and post them that way also.
After you have posted your post and images go into the regular holding que here, and I will release them when I am releasing other posts.

Pj

Thanks PJ,
I'll take pics of my modified blades. These are the samples brian sent me when they were deciding on the kind of blades to put on the new machines. They are working great. In fact, using them and stock blades, I've been mulching 3" of regular grass "without" a mulch kit, just an OCDC, and the results have been nothing short of super.

[gene gls]

Gene,
Did you have the spacers installed? do you have your discharge opening opened up to the larger opening?

Pj

P/J,
Yes,I am using the new spacers. I have also added a 5/8 washer with the spacer. This brings the blades about 1/8" to 1/4" from the bottom of the deck. The volume of air flow is much greater with the Everride blades and the clippings exit the deck at the top of the opening.

No, I have not changed the opening. And, yes, the grass still hangs up on the vac blower mounting pin when cutting heavy growth.

My next step is to replace the recirclelating baffle under the deck with a flat peice of steel so the clippings will get a direct discharge route. This should elimante the left and center blade from "over loading" with cut grass.

Gene

[Envy Lawn Service]

Thanks PJ,
I'll take pics of my modified blades. These are the samples brian sent me when they were deciding on the kind of blades to put on the new machines. They are working great. In fact, using them and stock blades, I've been mulching 3" of regular grass "without" a mulch kit, just an OCDC, and the results have been nothing short of super.

Well now that sounds great!

[mowerconsultant]

Gene,
You need to get the discharge opening opened up, just like the new decks, you will see a world of difference.

Pj

[tacoma200]

Does this new blade have any lift? Its hard to tell by looking at the picture.

[mowerconsultant]

Yes it does.
I will see if I can get a picture of the blade alone.

Pj

[gene gls]

Gene,
You need to get the discharge opening opened up, just like the new decks, you will see a world of difference.

Pj

P/j,
Question on the new adaptor plate for the larger opening. Does it add any width to the overall width of the deck to mount the vac unit? Does the plate mount to the vac unit blower pickup to keep the pickup centered in the larger opening?
Thanks.........Gene

[mowerconsultant]

The adapter plate bolts in place at the rear of the discharge opening, basically where the old piece would be.
It allows for the blower to mount the same way it did before and in the same position.

Pj

[gene gls]

The adapter plate bolts in place at the rear of the discharge opening, basically where the old piece would be.
It allows for the blower to mount the same way it did before and in the same position.

Pj

Can you post a picture of this adapter plate, #101071?? I am confused as to how the opening can be enlarged and still have the vac pick-up mounted in the opening with out the pivot pin being in the way for side discharge. I was at Batcher's the other day but they didn't have one in stock to look at. Thanks.......

Gene

[mowerconsultant]

I do not have a picture to post unfortunately.
I will see if I can get someone at the plant to pull the part and take a picture for me.

Pj

[gene gls]

I do not have a picture to post unfortunately.
I will see if I can get someone at the plant to pull the part and take a picture for me.

Pj

P/j,

No need for a picture. Tom was at Bacher's yesterday and explained the adaptor plate. Having to remove the plate every time I want to side discharge defeats the purpose of having the Bac-Vac unit,easy on-off with no tools. I replaced the recirclelating baffel with a piece of flat steel and now have a direct exit for the clippings. By using blades with a notched sail, the clippings exit the front and top of deck. I do still get some buildup on the pivot pin in wet or very heavy growth but overall I am satisfied with the results.

Thanks......

Gene