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br549oicu8
04-07-2005, 12:11 PM
I am starting a new thread as I see so many opinions of what a scrub is. I am sure mine are quite different than many which is ok. We all have an opinion which in the good old USA we are entitled to and thank God for that. This is not intended to start a mess....just get the feel of what most operators feel. I am starting with a few myself and please feel free to add or comment with no offense taken or given.

1. An individual that asks how much the present lawn contractor charges so he can be lower.
2. A lawn contractor that avoids obeying the laws in his area...(paying taxes, carrying insurance both liability and work comp if required).

PLease add some folks!!!

You notice I did not mention equipment, etc.....it's more about the important issues.

Buddy in Leavenworth, Kansas!!!!!!!!!!! :waving:

packerbacker
04-07-2005, 12:15 PM
Do we really have to go through this again... :)



Ok ill bite.


At one time I was a scrub. I had no insurance. I was underbidding. Hell, the lights on my trailer didnt even work!


As the years have gone by Ive picked up insurance, paid my taxes and fixed my lights. My truck is lettered and always kept clean as is my equipment. Im still around after 5 years.


Most companies start out are scrubs. I had nothing handed to me and I started out small making next to nothing.

You learn as you go. If your not making mistakes then your doing something wrong.

br549oicu8
04-07-2005, 12:19 PM
Just getting started and the guy avoiding the issues are really different types.
Thanks for the response. There is no right or wrong opinion here. I have been in business for 25 years with over 220 mowing accounts and 250 plus applicationn accounts. BUT..I am relatively new to this forum. I can learn...and I can advise....and nobody knows it all except the main guy up above.

marko
04-07-2005, 12:23 PM
If a guy is lowballing and does not know his costs, he is an idiot, not a scrub. As stated in numerous other posts, if someone figures: I can mow a yard in 1 hour and charge $25 Im making $25/hour, these are the guys that kill us. Yes they eventually go under, but there are plenty of others one step behind the guy who went out of business (they have not learned their lesson yet). Someone who is not legal (licenses, insurance, workman's comp, taxes, etc) to me is a scrub. He has a distinct advantage due to lower hourly cost. What I do for $30, he can do for $15 and still come out ahead.

br549oicu8
04-07-2005, 12:26 PM
Great reply Marko. That is exactly what I am looking to hear...true honest opinions. I run into this stuff here too even after 25 years. My grandson charged this...the neighbors son charged that.....etc..
We all see it and it wil never be eliminated.
We deal with it in a professional manner and we survive jsut fine.
That is my belief...my opinion.

packerbacker
04-07-2005, 12:42 PM
Great reply Marko. That is exactly what I am looking to hear...true honest opinions. I run into this stuff here too even after 25 years. My grandson charged this...the neighbors son charged that.....etc..
We all see it and it wil never be eliminated.
We deal with it in a professional manner and we survive jsut fine.
That is my belief...my opinion.






What they dont understand is that their grandsons and neighbors arent in business to support their family.

I told a guy I charge 55 an hour for cleanups and he had a heart attack screaming his plumber doesnt get that much. I laughed and said get your plumber to rake your leaves.

br549oicu8
04-07-2005, 12:49 PM
I agree!!! I had some plumbing done at a new shop we built this past year. The plumber charged ridiculous rates and I confronted him. He told me he like to get $65 an hour for himself and $35 for his non-trained helper. I told him what you like and what you get are 2 different things. He planned poorly..making several trips for parts instead of one and charged me for the entire time. I balke and he reduced it by 25%. I told Him I would like to get that ($100 an hour) and he made the mistake to say we were just wacking weeds!! Bad idea. I asked what degree he had in plumbing...as my son has a degree in business and turf management. I asked how much in equipment was in his truck....and was it all listed with the county as business equipment....
As you night expect we no longer talk....but he is now formally a "scrub plumber". ;)

packerbacker
04-07-2005, 12:53 PM
Ironically this morning (while im waiting to get my mower out of the shop) I ahd an older customer call for some work.

I went over there and installed some gutter guards and she asked me to fix her toilet. I threw a new handle on and adjusted the flush valve.

All told I was there for an hour and I got my usual 55 bucks.

She told me she had called a plumber and he wanted 75 just to come over and look at it.

br549oicu8
04-07-2005, 01:15 PM
Stuff like that happens all the time.
Another scrub definition...
3. A lawn care contractor that does not treat the environment properly. (Dumps clippings, trash, etc.. on other peoples property, etc.)

packerbacker
04-07-2005, 01:19 PM
A guy who mows with jeans on BUT wont wear a shirt and just unloaded a 36 Bunton covered in rust out of the back of his van.


Sounds like the guy I saw yesterday...

br549oicu8
04-07-2005, 01:22 PM
Yep....that is a scrub. No concern for his own appearance or health.
Last year we gained a new very nice account. The previous lawn provider's crew had a guy....no shirt...tatoos all over but the two things the homeowner hated....nipple rings and a 6 inch tall tatto on his back "KILL".
Said that didn't go over well when she had the broge club over. Gotta love those guys for sending business my way!!

rclay11541
04-07-2005, 02:44 PM
A SCRUB IS SOMEONE WHO JUST CUTS GRASS TO MAKE SOME EXTRA MONEY. Nothin else matters, Most of us here cant go and take a 100K loan out to buy all new stuff and pay all the bills. You have to start from somewhere.

wanabe
04-07-2005, 02:59 PM
$500 trucks, home made trailers, illegal mexicans, paying everyone in cash, expired license plates, junk mowers that are never serviced or washed, and the list just goes on!

packerbacker
04-07-2005, 04:50 PM
A SCRUB IS SOMEONE WHO JUST CUTS GRASS TO MAKE SOME EXTRA MONEY. Nothin else matters, Most of us here cant go and take a 100K loan out to buy all new stuff and pay all the bills. You have to start from somewhere.






So you never had a part time job in high school to earn extra cash?

Mo Green
04-07-2005, 04:55 PM
A guy who mows with jeans on BUT wont wear a shirt and just unloaded a 36 Bunton covered in rust out of the back of his van.


Sounds like the guy I saw yesterday...
Are you sure you weren't in New Jersey? LOL

This is such a tired and overdiscussed subject. I can't believe it has come up once again.

packerbacker
04-07-2005, 04:57 PM
Are you sure you weren't in New Jersey? LOL

This is such a tired and overdiscussed subject. I can't believe it has come up once again.





He did have a mullet! Was it a Gedd sighting?

rodfather
04-07-2005, 04:57 PM
I went up against one (scrub) yesterday. I told this women I needed $65 to mow her property and he said $40. Why?

1. He had no Federal EIN
2. He carries absolutely no insurance
3. He requested payment only in cash and immediately after service
4. No commercial tags or signage

I won't get into the truck and equipment he had, but yes, after recognizing the above, he can do it for 40 bucks.

Littleriver1
04-07-2005, 05:06 PM
Buddy in Leavenworth, Kansas!!!!!!!!!!!
BR, Are you using a computer on the inside of A chainlink fence with a lot of concrete around you?

rodfather
04-07-2005, 05:10 PM
Sorry, forgot to mention. I got the job in lieu of what I was up against...quality and reliability sells. :)

nocutting
04-07-2005, 05:16 PM
That New Guy in buisness that you refer to a good client, He so posed to cut while the client is on vacation,. He Doesent, but bills anyway [ and the neighboors let the client know hes never been there!]....They get back and "I" get fired for refering that "Scrub". :dizzy: - Saxon

nocutting
04-07-2005, 05:17 PM
I get fired after they "Pay the Scrub" -Saxon

Todd's lawncare
04-07-2005, 05:57 PM
I went up against one (scrub) yesterday. I told this women I needed $65 to mow her property and he said $40. Why?

1. He had no Federal EIN
2. He carries absolutely no insurance
3. He requested payment only in cash and immediately after service
4. No commercial tags or signage

I won't get into the truck and equipment he had, but yes, after recognizing the above, he can do it for 40 bucks.
I know why but did that job really mattered if you didn't get it ? Have you always had ins,ein,comm tags, ???? A scrub can pay the 400 ins 200 tags ein don't cost a thing and still bid them with it all being paid but why do you got to point it out to every one do you really need the work ?

Todd's lawncare
04-07-2005, 06:04 PM
Some one who think there better then every other lco because they start off being 100,00 in the hole . So any one with out all new mowers and the top commercial qupmeant money can buy . Or they go to lowes or home depot . So if any of you Don't have all and only Snap-on tools in the tool box your a scrub. And whats wrong with an older truck i have two 79's if something gos wrong pull it in it can be fixed in a night now pull the 93 in it might be done in 4 days 3 nights .

rodfather
04-07-2005, 06:13 PM
I know why but did that job really mattered if you didn't get it ? Have you always had ins,ein,comm tags, ???? A scrub can pay the 400 ins 200 tags ein don't cost a thing and still bid them with it all being paid but why do you got to point it out to every one do you really need the work ?

Yea, pretty much had all those things since Day 1. Do I need the work? F*** no, we do already over 300 acres a week in mowing alone and just added a 81 acre school district as well. I could care less whether or not I get any more week for this year. I was just trying to make a point is all...

Flex-Deck
04-07-2005, 06:16 PM
The first post on this thread is absolutely the best description of a scrub. I have said the same thing in the past.

1. If you ask what the charges are of the present LCO and then under cut, you are a pond sucking no good scrub.
2. If you are doing an LCO business, and not carrying insurance etc. to keep your costs down, you are a pond sucking no good scrub.

I have absolutely no problem with people that bid lower. They may be making more money per hr. than I am. I have a real problem with cheaters.

Todd's lawncare
04-07-2005, 06:16 PM
I get the point but some people just want it done . And who doesn't go for the cheapest one if you were going to get the new truck and abc ford had it for 32,000 but xyz had it for 30,550 where would you go ?

Flex-Deck
04-07-2005, 06:38 PM
I get the point but some people just want it done . And who doesn't go for the cheapest one if you were going to get the new truck and abc ford had it for 32,000 but xyz had it for 30,550 where would you go ?

I would go to the one with the best service departement. for $1450, it is not worth driving a long way, or putting up with poor service down the road. that is excactly why I pay premium dollars for JD equipment in my mowing operation. I have virtually no problems, and if I do, my Jd Dealer has tremendous people in the shop, and they take care of me. Including loaner mowers if I would ever need one.

Shelman Yard works
04-07-2005, 06:55 PM
Here is my definition of a scrub.
Truck:
Ratty looking pick up, windows missing, rusted out bed, different color body panels, beer cans in bed.
Equiptment:
Trashed mower (a hose does wonders), oil leaking out of everywhere, rope should stay on the recoil.
Personal appearance:
Unshaven, hair a mess, flannel with iron maiden t-shirt under. Holes in jeans.



I have witnessed this yesterday. I pull up to an estimate in an area with 500k homes and see this crew. So I wait in my freshly washed and waxed rig with tire shine and the works. (Bling bling). As there are walking down the drive, I get out and start to walk up. They comment how do you work in a truck that clean. I respond with all I have to do is wash it. Lol. So I meet with the lady and she tell me she want spring clean up (8-10 very large oak trees and a lot of bed cover with no fall clean up) 12 yard of mulch to go in the back yard up 8 stairs. She will buy the mulch. Ok I give her my price for spring clean up $240 will take 2 guys 3 hours. She looks at me and tells me the guy that just left would do it for $100. I tell her if you feel that is a fair price then you should go with them. If she would like my professional service here is my card please feel free to call for an lawn care needs. She called today and want us for the job. :cool2:

br549oicu8
04-07-2005, 08:30 PM
No fence around me...yet!!!! hahahah..Yeah the big prison is less then 3 miles from me..great selection of workers.NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :cool2:

lawnman_scott
04-07-2005, 08:48 PM
Here is a scrub trailer. Amazingly its gone, so i assume it sold.

packerbacker
04-07-2005, 08:57 PM
LOVE the helmets :)

HighGrass
04-07-2005, 09:05 PM
A scrub is a person who spends way to much time worrying about the other guy and how bad they may be. He is so self absorbed in what HE considers a scrub, that he truly believes he is the center of the universe and that all planets and stars revolve around him. He has, in essence, arrived at a time and place in his/her career as to have nothing better to do with ones time than to worry about the status or welfare of other folk. He also truly believes that by being so attentive to said person he will help preserve his reputation and that of his fellow "non-scrubs". It is often encountered when he feels threatened and worries that his business will actually be in jeopardy by someone who may be transporting a machine in such a way as to be different than that of his fellow non-scrubs. Another practice is to actually judge a person who is trying to make a living but wearing the wrong attire. This tendency can be over come however by practicing one easy exercise. Pay attention to what YOU are doing...not someone else.

br549oicu8
04-07-2005, 09:57 PM
UH....I would say your highness has spoken!! :angel:

chefdrp
04-07-2005, 10:29 PM
we all know what a scrub is. And prob 98% of guys on here started out as a scrub. I sure as hell did. I had a nice truck and used my dads J/D rider and trailer. Old homeowner weed eater and even had a push broom. Didnt pay taxes and was normaly 1/2 drunk and had no liab. ins. Wore a wife beater and jeans. smoked on peoples lawns ect. Now i have awsome mowers signage on my clean truck, clean shaven face every day, clean embroiderd uniform. almost 3 years sober and almost 4 years non smoker. Carry 1 mill. in liab coverage and pay my taxes. go rid of the broom and have all commercial 2cycle stuff. Even added a nice plow so i can grow my bussines.

fga
04-07-2005, 10:36 PM
oh man, a push broom is now scrub? i am in trouble...
how would you pick up a pile you made in the street, along a curb?

jason1978
04-07-2005, 10:37 PM
A scrub is someone that needs to post this crap about other people because they run a business differently then themselves. A lot of people here need a ego check. Who cares who pays taxes, who has insurance, who has top of the line equipment.

chefdrp
04-07-2005, 10:41 PM
you know what i mean about a push broom. I had no blower. I know what you mean by using a broom. I personaly have no need for a broom.I dont discharge in the street or on a curb.

K.Carothers
04-07-2005, 10:42 PM
A scrub is a person who spends way to much time worrying about the other guy and how bad they may be. He is so self absorbed in what HE considers a scrub, that he truly believes he is the center of the universe and that all planets and stars revolve around him. He has, in essence, arrived at a time and place in his/her career as to have nothing better to do with ones time than to worry about the status or welfare of other folk. He also truly believes that by being so attentive to said person he will help preserve his reputation and that of his fellow "non-scrubs". It is often encountered when he feels threatened and worries that his business will actually be in jeopardy by someone who may be transporting a machine in such a way as to be different than that of his fellow non-scrubs. Another practice is to actually judge a person who is trying to make a living but wearing the wrong attire. This tendency can be over come however by practicing one easy exercise. Pay attention to what YOU are doing...not someone else.

Well said!

fga
04-07-2005, 10:44 PM
you know what i mean about a push broom. I had no blower. I know what you mean by using a broom. I personaly have no need for a broom.I dont discharge in the street or on a curb.
i bag everything, so i get to much clippings in the street. but NY'ers are messy and throw cigarettes, food wrappers, and the occasionally crack vial. when i'm using the push broom the it gives new meaning to the term "pusher man"..

dvmcmrhp52
04-07-2005, 11:02 PM
A scrub is a person who spends way to much time worrying about the other guy and how bad they may be. He is so self absorbed in what HE considers a scrub, that he truly believes he is the center of the universe and that all planets and stars revolve around him. He has, in essence, arrived at a time and place in his/her career as to have nothing better to do with ones time than to worry about the status or welfare of other folk. He also truly believes that by being so attentive to said person he will help preserve his reputation and that of his fellow "non-scrubs". It is often encountered when he feels threatened and worries that his business will actually be in jeopardy by someone who may be transporting a machine in such a way as to be different than that of his fellow non-scrubs. Another practice is to actually judge a person who is trying to make a living but wearing the wrong attire. This tendency can be over come however by practicing one easy exercise. Pay attention to what YOU are doing...not someone else.




Best damn definition I've heard lately.................. :drinkup:

MMLawn
04-07-2005, 11:06 PM
Best damn definition I've heard lately.................. :drinkup:


Amen to that. I'm still stunned that a NEWBIE that has only been on LS a week was the one to start this thread :eek: He'll be making a lot of friends on here.... :laugh:

Fareway Lawncare
04-07-2005, 11:13 PM
Administration Really Should Sticky this Scrub Test to the Top of the Page for you Kids so we can Avoid these Threads in the Future.

This is a copy of the Official Test currently under discussion as mandatory for entrance to the Green Industry Mowing and Maintenance Guild or GIMMG.


Answering “Yes” to the following adds 1 point to your total. Please note that you must add the totals of each section together if permitted to proceed.

Equipment: Section A:

I own or operate

1) Handheld Blower
2) Curved Shaft Trimmer
3) Any non-commercial handhelds
4) Any electric powered handhelds or mower
5) Walkbehind Vacs on turf (Billy Goat and their ilk)
6) Non commercial 21” (Toro Recycler, Honda Harmony, Lawnboy Gold and their ilk)
7) Troy-Bilt 33”
8) Homeowner rated Zero-Turn
9) Lawn Tractor
10) Handheld leaf vacs (Echo shred’n’Vac & its ilk)
11) Attachment series stick tools (Stihl Combi System and its ilk)
12) Power Edger’s (unless this is strict necessity in your market)

Equipment : Section B:

13) My Dealer is Home Depot/Lowes/Costco/Wal-Mart
14) I have made a significant equipment purchase at any of the above outlets.
15) I have no back-up units
16) I have rented a hedge trimmer or chain saw
17) I work out of a truck bed or the back of a mini-van
18) I haul a trailer with a mini-van or car
19) My trailer is made of wood
20) My trailer has no drop gate
21) The lighting system on my trailer does not function
22) My trailer is not plated

“Yes” adds a point to your total.

Total
5-9 Riff Raff
10-22 Scrub

If your Total remains less than 5 you may continue, otherwise your classification stands and you may not proceed.

Work Procedures Section:

1) I enjoy chatting with elderly customers and doing them small chores.
2) I will do almost anything a customer asks even if it's not green industry related.
3) My garage is my shop
4) I do not carry pre-wound bump heads
5) I do not carry extra gas or gas/mix
6) I or my employee (s) wear wife beaters and or cut-offs while working
7) I or my employee(s) smoke on the jobsite
8) I or my employee(s) relieve themselves on the jobsite
9) I or my employee(s) eat lunch sitting on a customer’s front lawn
10) My wife/girlfriend is my secretary or works with me in the field
11) My friends or relatives help out when things get busy
12) I am part time (Add 2 Points)
13) I sharpen blades a few times a season

“Yes” adds a point to your total.

Total
6-9 Riff Raff
10-15 Scrub

If your Total remains less than 6 you may continue, otherwise your classification stands and you may not proceed.

Business Procedures Section:

1) I wait to get paid after each service visit.
2) My business cards consist of my number hand written on a piece of scrap paper.
3) I have collected money from under a door mat
4) Billing is sent out in no specific time frame
5) Billing is hand written
6) I do not carry liability, equipment, and commercial vehicle insurance
7) I pay my employee(s) cash
8) My personal bank account and or phone # is same as business'
9) I declare less than 70% of earnings
10) My employee (s) are illegals
11) My employee (s) are not paid and covered as per my States laws
12) I call myself a landscaper when my primary focus is maintenance

“Yes” adds a point to your total

1-4 Member of Green Industry Elite
5-8 High Class Scrub
8-12 Riff Raff

Todd's lawncare
04-07-2005, 11:57 PM
you know what i mean about a push broom. I had no blower. I know what you mean by using a broom. I personaly have no need for a broom.I dont discharge in the street or on a curb.
So on a windy day not even one piece of grass gos in to the street ?

Macvols
04-08-2005, 12:29 AM
$500 trucks, home made trailers, illegal mexicans, paying everyone in cash, expired license plates, junk mowers that are never serviced or washed, and the list just goes on!



Expecially hiring illegal help!!!!!!

packerbacker
04-08-2005, 08:04 AM
Amen to that. I'm still stunned that a NEWBIE that has only been on LS a week was the one to start this thread :eek: He'll be making a lot of friends on here.... :laugh:





As opposed to some guy who has 1400 posts and sits behind a computer calling people "newbies"?

br549oicu8
04-08-2005, 08:58 AM
I am the newbie that started this thread. Yeah..newbie....25 years a business owner, 30 plus years experience in commercial, residential, municipal lawn care. Newbie..huh.
SOrry a few folks are tired of the scrub thing. This forum is new to me so if it is old to you please choose to not open the thread. You have the choice. If you choose to open....that is your right and that is a good thing to have the right to do so.
My thread is aimed at listening to how people feel about this business. I feel expressing yourself is a good old USA benefit. I prefer to make this a positive thing instead of negative. OK...scrub is not a positive thing. Most start out without the knowledge of the business or understanding of the laws that govern. It is typically learned as you go. The person that chooses to learn and comply is not a scrub. He who learns, laughs at or ignores the same most likely is a scrub.
I am here to learn and advise. We can all benefit from that.
These has been "newbies" in my area that have come to me knowing I have been in business a long time and want advice. I not only give them that I try to send them some business. That is what I feel is the right thing to do.
What do you think is right??????

MMLawn
04-08-2005, 09:28 AM
As opposed to some guy who has 1400 posts and sits behind a computer calling people "newbies"?

Ohhhhhhhhh I'm sorry MR. packer I didn't mean to be rough to your new chat buddy.............I mean you are so much help to others on here. I mean like 600 of your 1100 post are bashing folks esp BG.



BR I too have more than 25 years in this business and yes I was calling you the newbie on here because when I first joined LS last year I spent hours upon hours searching threads and learning all I could about the site...and business and not starting my first threads bashing others, cause see I believe that even with 25 years I still have tons to learn, but it clear you don't and already know everything so you and packer have fun as I promise you I won't be opening any more of your childish threads.

packerbacker
04-08-2005, 09:32 AM
Ohhhhhhhhh I'm sorry MR. packer I didn't mean to be rough to your new chat buddy.............I mean you are so much help to others on here. I mean like 600 of your 1100 post are bashing folks esp BG.



BR I too have more than 25 years in this business and yes I was calling you the newbie on here because when I first joined LS last year I spent hours upon hours searching threads and learning all I could about the site...and business and not starting my first threads bashing others, cause see I believe that even with 25 years I still have tons to learn, but it clear you don't and already know everything so you and packer have fun as I promise you I won't be opening any more of your childish threads.






Is that a tear I see?

br549oicu8
04-08-2005, 09:33 AM
Mr. MM. Thank you for your opinion.
I read this site for many months before joining in also. I believe my post said I still had a lot to learn...so I am not sure where the " I know everything" you talk about came from.
Have a nice day.

Congrats to the Tar Heels also using our old coach Roy.

BR..Jayhawks fan

dvmcmrhp52
04-08-2005, 10:17 PM
I am here to learn and advise. We can all benefit from that.
These has been "newbies" in my area that have come to me knowing I have been in business a long time and want advice. I not only give them that I try to send them some business. That is what I feel is the right thing to do.
What do you think is right??????




So you are saying that you are not afraid of competition?
Hmmm.........
For the right person I would help, for the goober that has no clue, sorry, I don't need to waste my time on someone who will never be anything but a detriment.

The whole scrub thing is just really, really, really, really played out here at lawnsite, that's why you get certain responses.

Most of the people that complain about the so called scrubs are just irritated because they can't make a go of it for numerous other reasons. Although a few may have legitimate concerns.

Mo Green
04-08-2005, 10:25 PM
It seems that it is easier to blame someone else(i.e. scrubs) for things not going someone's way, then to accept responsibility for one's own failure.

J&R
04-09-2005, 03:33 AM
A scrub- any LOC the has more work than he can do. And never has the money to buy new mowers, trimmers, blowers and insurance.