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Eddie B
04-11-2005, 08:55 PM
I was kickin around the Home Depot today, and while I was there I glanced at the Toro homeowner mowers. Then I noticed the Honda mowers sitting right next to them, with the plastic decks. One of the employees walked up to me and asked if I was looking for a mower. I said "No, but I remember seeing these plastic honda decks before. Whats the deal?". After explaining to him that I own 2 Toro's with aluminum decks, he said that the plastic decks are far better. Easy to clean, they flex on impact, and will outlast anything else out there. I remember them having a high rating with consumer reports as well. So I ask you. Whats the deal? Seems to me its plastic, plastic can melt, crack, etc a lot easier than metal. Seems to me if you hit a large object with one of these, the deck is gonna give. Am I right? I'm not buying one, but its got me thinking.

nelbuts
04-11-2005, 09:36 PM
HOGWASH! Let me give you a few examples. Remember the old bagger shutes? Well here in Florida the sand will eat them up. The sun and elements will work on them and they will become brittle.

Now on the other hand the Flymos and such I think have plastic decks. But they are much shallower and have down force rather than a deck that creates an upflow.

ed2hess
04-11-2005, 10:01 PM
I believe Honda put the "plastic" deck on the commericial mower this year. It is a lot lighter. I have a Honda with steel deck and it didn't hold up very well so I would not worry about the new plastic. I used a lot of lawnboys that had aluminum(or some type to cast material) and they cracked all the time.

mkwl
04-11-2005, 10:06 PM
Plastic decks on mowers... Thanks I'll Pass!

jtkplc
04-11-2005, 10:13 PM
I have the xenoy deck on my honda. I love it. All of last year nothing stuck to the underside of it. I think you would really have to abuse the deck in order to crack it.

Anthony-MB
04-11-2005, 10:20 PM
the plastic decks are mulch mowers - if I remeber no bagger
oddly they where more expensive than the aluminum deck.

I'm not sure how one would crack aluminum or steel deck.
I always check the are I mow even pickup rocks or loose concrete from the area.

MMLawn
04-11-2005, 10:34 PM
the plastic decks are mulch mowers - if I remeber no bagger.

First they aren't made of "plastic" they are made of xenoy. A substance similar to plastic but much stronger. As a matter of fact the xenoy deck is warrantied for a Full 5 Years which is longer than their other decks and Yes it does come in mulching, side discharge and bagger.

Eddie B
04-12-2005, 04:23 AM
First they aren't made of "plastic" they are made of xenoy. A substance similar to plastic but much stronger. As a matter of fact the xenoy deck is warrantied for a Full 5 Years which is longer than their other decks and Yes it does come in mulching, side discharge and bagger.

Yea these Honda mowers were baggers. I thought they called the plastic "polymer" or something like that. I doubt that the warranty covers commercial use. But then again, the homeowner warrany on my Toros is 3 years. (1 year commercial). I once hit a horseshoe with one and it completely ruined the deck. It was bent, cracked, completey done for. This is one reason why i'm wondering about these Hondas. I really love my Toro's tho. :rolleyes:

StealthDT
04-12-2005, 09:51 AM
Whenever I buy a new mower with a metal deck, first thing I do is pull it off and take it to Linex. They spray the smooth basecoat on the underside for about $100, depends on the size. Nothing sticks to it, and the deck won't rust from the inside out. Noticed it's alot quieter too.....

Teiman
04-12-2005, 02:08 PM
Stealth,

Great tip, I learn something all the time on this site.

Thanks for the post.

kcowell
04-12-2005, 03:36 PM
I like the Line-Ex idea. They make a roll-on or brush-on coating just like it, but you can do it yourself for a lot less than $100. It comes in a paint bucket (quart) for around $30-$40. A quart should cover several decks. Be careful you don't get it on too thick.

Teiman
04-12-2005, 04:32 PM
I wonder if the consumer versions would be smooth
as Stealth described. Might be important to flow characteristics

Appalachian landscape
04-12-2005, 04:33 PM
I have a honda with the xenoy deck and it's as strong or maybe even stronger than any other deck I've seen. Look at this link. http://www.hondapowerequipment.com/apicfolder/xenoy.gif

I find that grass doesn't stick to it much either. When I purchased mine there was a warranty extension to go from 5 to 6 years. In my opinion six years is a long time to guarantee a mower deck.

StealthDT
04-12-2005, 09:13 PM
When I went to Linex with my truck, they showed me pieces of all the other brand liners that failed and had to be removed. I wanted a slick surface on the truck bed since it dumps. They said no problem cause the first coat is always slick. I saw the potential for other uses like wheelbarrows and loader buckets. If you work in the wet clay of Virginia, you know what I'm talking about.

Anyway, once I did one deck, that was all I needed to realize how easy it was to clean with just a garden hose.

specialtylc
04-12-2005, 10:18 PM
The commercial Honda mower decks are still steel. I dont like plastic, cast aluminum, or magnesium, because when they break or the axle holes get wornout they are not repairable.

Eric Vest
02-18-2009, 12:22 PM
I was kickin around the Home Depot today, and while I was there I glanced at the Toro homeowner mowers. Then I noticed the Honda mowers sitting right next to them, with the plastic decks. One of the employees walked up to me and asked if I was looking for a mower. I said "No, but I remember seeing these plastic honda decks before. Whats the deal?". After explaining to him that I own 2 Toro's with aluminum decks, he said that the plastic decks are far better. Easy to clean, they flex on impact, and will outlast anything else out there. I remember them having a high rating with consumer reports as well. So I ask you. Whats the deal? Seems to me its plastic, plastic can melt, crack, etc a lot easier than metal. Seems to me if you hit a large object with one of these, the deck is gonna give. Am I right? I'm not buying one, but its got me thinking.

I used to work for Honda North America as an auditor and audited Honda Power Equipment's North Carolina plant. Honda changed from aluminum to plastic decks as a cost reduction effort; not to improve quality. Honda Management stated this to me. I bought a Harmony plastic deck mower for my brother with my Honda discount. This mower's deck cracked even though my brother is very careful with his equipment and he only uses this mower as a trim mower. My father and I have owned Lawn Boy and Toro aluminum deck mowers and have obtained 20+ years service with no deck problems.

I think Honda mowers are over rated and over priced. The top Harmony model costs $900, but has a residential engine with no iron sleeve. This mower is a poor value not only for its plastic deck, but non-commerical engine. Another thing to consider, Toro residential mowers have a 5 year warranty compared to Honda's 3 year warranty.

Runner
02-18-2009, 01:18 PM
I want the model with the carbon fiber deck, titanium handles, and knobs, and all stainless hardware.

Roger
02-18-2009, 03:11 PM
This is one of Honda's top-end consumer models. The deck is Nexite, the mower is not a Harmony.

http://www.hondapowerequipment.com/products/modeldetail.aspx?page=modeldetail&section=P2LM&modelname=HRX217K2HXA&modelid=HRX2172HXA

Some have commented on LS that these mowers have held up well under commercial use. I have spent much time in trying to find a new hand mower, and have settled on this one. One of the primary reasons: weight. The HRC model is nearly 30# heavier, just too much for me. I don't give a hoot about the material, as long as it has long life. I will find out soon enough.

As stated by EricVest, the engine is really troublesome for me too. I am very concerned about running the GCV engine for 6-700 hours per season. But, I'm out of ideas of what else to buy -- already have a ToroProline 21", but it is too heavy for daily use (used as second mower). My only other choice was Snapper, with GXV Honda. It is about 100#.

I would welcome any feedback on the Nexite Honda deck experiences.

saw man
02-18-2009, 04:53 PM
I have not had any problems with the Nexite (plastic) Honda deck. I do, however, have issues with rock holes in aluminum decks. You could end up replacing the engine with a GSV190 when or if it dies before the rest of the machine is gone.

This deck also has a lifetime warranty on it.



Very old thread by the way! Maybe Eric just wanted to bad mouth Honda?

Eric Vest
06-23-2009, 08:17 PM
I have not had any problems with the Nexite (plastic) Honda deck. I do, however, have issues with rock holes in aluminum decks. You could end up replacing the engine with a GSV190 when or if it dies before the rest of the machine is gone.

This deck also has a lifetime warranty on it.



Very old thread by the way! Maybe Eric just wanted to bad mouth Honda?

I found the thread by Google when I was comparing lawn mowers. I was an auditor for Honda 3 years and a cost accountant specializing in new model development for another 3 years so I have a good understanding of how Honda operates and develops products. I talked with the executives at Honda Power Equipment's North Carolina plant in the early 1990's shortly after they introduced the plastic deck on what was then the Harmony line. They stated it was to reduce costs. The Masters lawn mower was very expensive to produce. Honda cut costs by going from an aluminum deck to a plastic one and from a commercial to a consumer engine. If you compare a Masters to a plastic deck Honda you can see considerable cost cutting.

As I stated above, my brother had negative experiences with a plastic deck Harmony. Also, a neighbor bought a plastic deck Harmony a few years ago and complained to me that it was a weak mulcher and did not handle well. He gave that mower to a relative after he bought a relatively inexpensive Troy-Bilt. He told me the Troy-Bilt mulched and handled better than the Honda.

The HRX's (the Harmony's replacement) only has a 90 commercial warranty. I am not sure the limited lifetime warranty of the plastic deck applies to commercial use. Toro's top aluminum deck Super Recycler costs $690 and Honda's top HRX costs $900. From what I hear the Toro mulches better than the Honda, has an aluminum deck which I prefer, and costs $200 less.

I worked at Honda of America Manufacturing in Marysville, Ohio. I remember discussing mowers with fellow Honda associates and no one owned a Honda mower even though they were entitled to a discount. The general consensus was that Honda mowers were not good values.

Eric Vest
06-24-2009, 08:06 AM
I found the thread by Google when I was comparing lawn mowers. I was an auditor for Honda 3 years and a cost accountant specializing in new model development for another 3 years so I have a good understanding of how Honda operates and develops products. I talked with the executives at Honda Power Equipment's North Carolina plant in the early 1990's shortly after they introduced the plastic deck on what was then the Harmony line. They stated it was to reduce cost. The Masters lawn mower was very expensive to produce and Honda wanted to dramatically lower costs on the Harmony. Honda cut cost by going from an aluminum deck to a plastic one and from a commercial to a consumer engine. If you compare a Masters to a plastic deck Honda you can see considerable cost cutting.

As I stated above, my brother had negative experiences with a plastic deck Harmony. Also, a neighbor bought a plastic deck Harmony a few years ago and complained to me that it was a weak mulcher and did not handle well. He gave that mower to a relative after he bought a relatively inexpensive Troy-Bilt. He told me the Troy-Bilt mulched and handled better than the Honda.

The HRX's (the Harmony's replacement) has 3 year consumer warranty and only a 90 day commercial warranty. I am not sure the limited lifetime warranty of the plastic deck applies to commercial use.

Toro's top aluminum deck Super Recycler costs $690 which is $200 less than Honda's top HRX. From what I hear the Toro mulches better than the Honda, has an aluminum deck, which I prefer, and has a five year consumer warranty.

I worked at Honda of America Manufacturing in Marysville, Ohio. I remember discussing mowers with fellow Honda associates and no one I spoke with owned a Honda mower even though they were entitled to a discount. The general consensus was that Honda mowers were not good values.

Eric Vest
06-24-2009, 08:18 AM
This is one of Honda's top-end consumer models. The deck is Nexite, the mower is not a Harmony.

http://www.hondapowerequipment.com/products/modeldetail.aspx?page=modeldetail&section=P2LM&modelname=HRX217K2HXA&modelid=HRX2172HXA

Some have commented on LS that these mowers have held up well under commercial use. I have spent much time in trying to find a new hand mower, and have settled on this one. One of the primary reasons: weight. The HRC model is nearly 30# heavier, just too much for me. I don't give a hoot about the material, as long as it has long life. I will find out soon enough.

As stated by EricVest, the engine is really troublesome for me too. I am very concerned about running the GCV engine for 6-700 hours per season. But, I'm out of ideas of what else to buy -- already have a ToroProline 21", but it is too heavy for daily use (used as second mower). My only other choice was Snapper, with GXV Honda. It is about 100#.

I would welcome any feedback on the Nexite Honda deck experiences.

When the Harmony came out, it had a Lexan (GE Plastics) deck. They changed the plastic name to Nexite, but it is the same material. The HRX is similar to the Harmony. The HRX is an updated model.

Roger
06-24-2009, 09:26 PM
Eric, my post was made earlier this year, before making a decision. You will find a thread I started in early April, with a review of the HRX. I decided on the HRX, primarily because of weight. You can see from my post that weight was an important element in my decision.

To date, the Nexite-decked mower has covered all, or part of about 450 lawns, often sees over 6 service hours per day. It has been a great decision from my experience thus far. I don't really care about Nexite or aluminum, or any other deck material -- IF it does the job, is weight-advantaged, and has long life. If you read my other thread on the review, you will find my conversation with another who has run his for more than four seasons. He has his aluminum commercial model parked in the shed, and only uses his HRX.

The GCV engine is performing beyond my expectations. More time will be needed for assessing longevity.

People who worked for Honda may not have owned one because they weren't mowing grass for income, just needing a mower for weekend warrior tasks. Whether employees used Honda equipment, or not, does not reflect on the products one way or another.

kaferhaus
06-24-2009, 11:27 PM
Wow, talk about mis-information...... nexite is NOT lexan or anything close to it.

The "Harmony" line was discontinued a few years back due to quality control problems and poor component selections. The Harmony line was a warranty nightmare for Honda. They made bad decisons on transmissions, wheels and the then formula for the decks.

The "homeowner" models do not have the commercial engine (have no idea if they're aluminum bore or steel lined).... didn't think anyone was making aluminum bore engines anymore but perhaps it's true. The commercial engines do have cast iron liners and a long commercial warranty.

We don't own any Honda mowers but it has nothing to do with any quality issue with the commercial mowers, it's the price. They're outrageously priced in my opinion. $1200bucks for a stamped steel deck mower that doesn't even come with the discharge chute is insane. AND it's only a 5HP engine AND it's having to turn a drive shaft .... which is good and bad..... good strength and longevity but saps more power from the engine... so it's already underpowered for such a heavy walk behind and then you put even more of a load on it.

Several LCOs here use them but everyone of them I've talked too have the same issues with them.

Underpowered

Can't discharge with it without buying a $50 part

Bags are $90 +

Deck clogs easily in wet grass

Mower is too long and too heavy.

But no one has complained about durability.

I think everyone is looking for that magic bullet.... a 6-700 dollar mower with a aluminum deck 6.5HP commercial engine, large gas tank, bag, mulch or discharge (at no extra charge....) with a reliable transmission and 4MPH ground speed, ball bearing wheels, single point height adjuster..

I'd buy 8 of them tomorrow

Eric Vest
06-24-2009, 11:57 PM
Wow, talk about mis-information...... nexite is NOT lexan or anything close to it.

The original Harmony decks were Lexan, at least that is what the Honda Power Equipment plant management said.

I have read that Nexite is another name for Lexan in another forum, but could not confirm that elsewhere. Maybe its a new material Honda is using.

Also, most lawn mower engines have aluminum bores. Most consumer engines have aluminum bores which is the vast majority of sales.

Eric Vest
06-25-2009, 12:06 AM
Eric, my post was made earlier this year, before making a decision. You will find a thread I started in early April, with a review of the HRX. I decided on the HRX, primarily because of weight. You can see from my post that weight was an important element in my decision.

To date, the Nexite-decked mower has covered all, or part of about 450 lawns, often sees over 6 service hours per day. It has been a great decision from my experience thus far. I don't really care about Nexite or aluminum, or any other deck material -- IF it does the job, is weight-advantaged, and has long life. If you read my other thread on the review, you will find my conversation with another who has run his for more than four seasons. He has his aluminum commercial model parked in the shed, and only uses his HRX.

The GCV engine is performing beyond my expectations. More time will be needed for assessing longevity.

People who worked for Honda may not have owned one because they weren't mowing grass for income, just needing a mower for weekend warrior tasks. Whether employees used Honda equipment, or not, does not reflect on the products one way or another.

I am glad you are happy with your purchase. Given your purchase criteria of being light weight, it maybe the only choice. Since you use it commercially, you can justify the cost easily because relative to commercial 21" mowers, the HRX price is reasonable.

ADLAWNCUTTERS
06-25-2009, 02:36 AM
If your a serious landscaper you will use a walk behind or a ztr just to increase your productivity.If you have a lot of small yards then get a 32 " walk behind.We don't mess around with small yards.I have a honda from home depot it works great. We use it for an is lot island.Most the time we just use the trimmer.They are only four or five hundred.It will last a few years.If your guys abuse your equipment nothing will last..

kaferhaus
06-25-2009, 08:08 AM
The original Harmony decks were Lexan, at least that is what the Honda Power Equipment plant management said.


Whoever those "management" people were are obviously morons then. Lexan is not suitable for "load bearing" and has never been touted as such. Lexan is scratch resistant but it's impact resistance is very poor.

Nexite is a polymer blend with a high nylon content. It's very strong stuff with great impact resistance and decent scratch resistance.

The best decks for commercial walk behinds is still aluminum. Honda doesn't use it for reasons of economy. The steel deck is expected to outlast the warranty and any more that's all manufactures are really looking for.

Eric Vest
06-25-2009, 09:44 AM
Whoever those "management" people were are obviously morons then. Lexan is not suitable for "load bearing" and has never been touted as such. Lexan is scratch resistant but it's impact resistance is very poor.

Nexite is a polymer blend with a high nylon content. It's very strong stuff with great impact resistance and decent scratch resistance.

Probably I remembered the name of the plastic wrong and the Honda Power Equipment management told me the right name. I remember they sourced the plastic from GE Plastics.

topsites
06-25-2009, 10:47 AM
Yeah they make great frisbees, although the engine's a bit heavy but
you should see how nicely one can make these plastic lawn mowers FLY!

johnwon
06-25-2009, 02:17 PM
Whoever those "management" people were are obviously morons then. Lexan is not suitable for "load bearing" and has never been touted as such. Lexan is scratch resistant but it's impact resistance is very poor.

Nexite is a polymer blend with a high nylon content. It's very strong stuff with great impact resistance and decent scratch resistance.

The best decks for commercial walk behinds is still aluminum. Honda doesn't use it for reasons of economy. The steel deck is expected to outlast the warranty and any more that's all manufactures are really looking for.
Clear Lexan is used for bullet proof windows, I'm not sure about the load bearing deal. Lexan is a trade mark brand name, other manufactures make the same material but have to call it something other than Lexan. Polycarbonate is one of the names used by one of the manufactures for the same material. It's same deal as Goretex, there is the samething out there but has to go by a different name. Clear Lexan & clear Polycarbonate is also used in aircraft windows and race car windows, colored material for football helmets, etc. I'm not sure if Polycarbonate is a trade mark name or not? We use black Polycarbonate for the material in one of our parts where I work at. The parts we have molded with Polycarbonate will not crack or break. We can cut it with a saw and rip it apart with great effort if it is thin enough.

Eric Vest
06-25-2009, 04:02 PM
It seems some people, including myself, prefer die cast aluminum decks, some steel, and some like the Honda plastic decks.

I find it curious if the Honda plastic deck is so tuff, why does not Honda use a plastic deck on their commercial model?

dishboy
06-25-2009, 09:46 PM
It seems some people, including myself, prefer die cast aluminum decks, some steel, and some like the Honda plastic decks.

I find it curious if the Honda plastic deck is so tuff, why does not Honda use a plastic deck on their commercial model?

Because their commercial drive line will last at least 10 years commercially and you can weld steel, not plastic. Hit the right rock and it will knock a chunk out of a Aluminum deck with steel all is good and all is repairable.

Heintooga
06-27-2009, 05:40 PM
I think everyone is looking for that magic bullet.... a 6-700 dollar mower with a aluminum deck 6.5HP commercial engine, large gas tank, bag, mulch or discharge (at no extra charge....) with a reliable transmission and 4MPH ground speed, ball bearing wheels, single point height adjuster.....I'd buy 8 of them tomorrow

The Snapper CRP2160KWV is as close as you'll get to that dream.

Herdfan
06-27-2009, 08:11 PM
The GCV engine is performing beyond my expectations.

Not to derail this thread, but I have an HRX with a Nexite deck. I wanted something other than steel and this fit the bill.

But my question for Roger is the engine. Out of the box it started with a very easy pull. Now 1/3 of the way into the season, it is hit or miss. Sometimes an easy pull fires it right up, other times it seems like it will never start. How is your starting experience? I use mid-grade gas from a good supplier.

lifetree
06-27-2009, 09:56 PM
... I bought a Harmony plastic deck mower for my brother with my Honda discount. This mower's deck cracked even though my brother is very careful with his equipment and he only uses this mower as a trim mower. My father and I have owned Lawn Boy and Toro aluminum deck mowers and have obtained 20+ years service with no deck problems. ...

That's interesting because on Honda's website they show a man using a sledge hammer as hard as he can on the "new deck" and it seems to take it with no problem ... but I actually believe your story about it not holding up to even minimal use !!

sweetz
06-27-2009, 10:16 PM
Whenever I buy a new mower with a metal deck, first thing I do is pull it off and take it to Linex. They spray the smooth basecoat on the underside for about $100, depends on the size. Nothing sticks to it, and the deck won't rust from the inside out. Noticed it's alot quieter too.....

I don't care what you spray on the underside of decks down here, it will be gone after you mow your first yard with it.

Roger
06-27-2009, 10:25 PM
Not to derail this thread, but I have an HRX with a Nexite deck. I wanted something other than steel and this fit the bill.

But my question for Roger is the engine. Out of the box it started with a very easy pull. Now 1/3 of the way into the season, it is hit or miss. Sometimes an easy pull fires it right up, other times it seems like it will never start. How is your starting experience? I use mid-grade gas from a good supplier.

Funny you should ask the question today. We used it for six jobs today -- ran through at least four tanks of fuel. I was thinking when I started one time near the end of the day, "... this thing starts better now than when it was new." I expect it has about 300 service hours behind it now.

It never requires a second pull. And, the first pull seems to be easier and easier -- just a little tug. Perhaps I'm just getting more accustomed to it starting, and expecting it to start. I spent so much time in the past two seasons working hard to get my LawnBoy DuraForce started -- many pulls, and sometimes not at all without taking out the spark plug to clean. I've saved myself soooooo much time this season with an engine that always starts on first pull.

Now, having said that, what might be the problem with your GCV engine? I don't know. With so few hours, the plug should still be good. Electronic parts are fluky, so maybe an ignition module is degenerating.

I change oil one time per week; every Thursday morning before it leaves for work. I'm using Shell Rotella Triple-T, 10W-30. I don't know why my frequent oil changes would make for better starting. Everybody I've known with the GCV engine has had starting experiences like mine. Your report is a rare negative report.

Herdfan
06-28-2009, 09:00 AM
I wonder if my issue stems from the automatic choke?

One thing I have found is if it is being difficult to start, wait 30 seconds, and then give a nice easy pull or two and then it will start. I wonder if I am pulling too hard and all it wants is a nice easy pull.

dishboy
06-28-2009, 09:42 AM
I wonder if my issue stems from the automatic choke?

One thing I have found is if it is being difficult to start, wait 30 seconds, and then give a nice easy pull or two and then it will start. I wonder if I am pulling too hard and all it wants is a nice easy pull.

Most likely your throttle /choke cable has stretched a little , If you pull the Air cleaner out you should be able to see the butterfly, it should be almost closed in the choke position.

jkilov
06-28-2009, 03:34 PM
I personally prefer a steel deck, It's proven. A few pounds extra is the only penalty.

Aluminum can crack and few can weld it, plastic will age and warp over time, specially in sunlight.

Roger
06-29-2009, 07:08 AM
... plastic will age and warp over time, specially in sunlight.

Any anecdotal evidence of the warping? Pics please.

Eric Vest
07-06-2009, 12:55 PM
Any anecdotal evidence of the warping? Pics please.

As I stated above my brother's Harmony deck cracked. I was at a Cincinnati power equipment dealer this past week and he stated that he replaced a Honda plastic deck that cracked. Apparently, it is not unheard of that a Honda plastic deck cracks. He also stated that in warm temperatures, Honda decks flex.

Eric Vest
07-06-2009, 12:59 PM
I spent so much time in the past two seasons working hard to get my LawnBoy DuraForce started -- many pulls, and sometimes not at all without taking out the spark plug to clean. I've saved myself soooooo much time this season with an engine that always starts on first pull.

Maybe the Lawn-Boy DuraForce carburetor needs attention. These engines are usually easy to start.

Nutsedge
04-17-2012, 10:46 PM
I'm sorry Eric Vest but you just seem like a disgruntled employee. Where I work (only 20 or so employees, people who work in one department often have no clue exactly what people in other departments are doing. I'm pretty sure thats how most places are. Now imagine a corporation as large as Honda. You are an auditor, and im sure a damn fine one at that but to me, the last thing im thinking when I wan to know anything about the manufacturing process of a mower deck is "man I really wish I could talk to an auditor there and get his opinion". I'm not trying to bring you down but its the truth.

Now to why I think Honda uses a Steel deck on the commercial units.

After reading this entire thread its clear as day. Some people are stuck in there ways and will not change them regardless of the factual and personal experiences of others. How many posts were made simply stating "I dont want no plastic deck"? There is is. Even though referring to Nexite as plastic is about as accurate as referring to diamonds as a mineral. In their minds its plastic and thats that.

I just picked up a 6yr old HRX and its as light as the 11yr old HRT with a 160cc motor, no hydro tranny, no blade brake, no bag and one less lever on the handle. To me thats great. This mower is easily twice as ridged as my old metal decked Honda. Also the GCV190 starts so effortlessly I still cant believe it, I'm talking a half a$$ed limp wristed tug and it starts. Warm or cold. Id bet the farm the issues with the hard starting are related to the auto choke as easy starting is another of the known benefits of having a Honda motor on your equipment.

One last bit of personal experience. My father in law has a Simplicity with a variant of the nexite deck (whatever it was when the simplicity line first came out) that will be celebrating it's 20 year b day this year, or actually just did. This mower has been one pull starting the whole time and has kept his mid sized lawn looking tip top and has even seen long hard tours at the family farm house from time to time in those years. The only thing he has had to fix on it was the throttle cable and that was after 15 years or so. Pretty good IMO.

Nutsedge
04-17-2012, 10:59 PM
Here is a press release from Honda on the Xenoy material, its made by GE.

http://www.hondanews.com/channels/power-equipment-lawnmowers-hrx/releases/honda-hrx-lawnmower-press-kit-xenoy-deck

Ill see what I can find on Nexite, its differences v Xenoy and why they changed.

Nutsedge
04-17-2012, 11:19 PM
I cant find jack worth posting about Nexite. Hondas press release index doesnt even have mention of the change. To me this sounds like one day they darkened the mix and started calling Xenoy NeXite. The reason a company would do this is trademark/patent/contract issues with their partners in development. I cant prove that just yet but I will find out and post back.

weeze
04-17-2012, 11:26 PM
i'll take nexite over steel or aluminum any day.

Alan0354
04-18-2012, 03:27 AM
This is a general comment, don't look down on plastic like material. They look plastic, but they are not. The semi auto Glock gun are made in plastic and they out last the metal flame ones. They don't rust, they are more flexible. try break something made of polycarbonate and you'll see.

One time I bought a bottom of boost and they forgot to take out the tamper cap. I didn't discover that until I took it home. I though how hard can it be to take it out myself. I got big vice, all the tools in my workshop. I was wrong. Long story short, I ended up clamping it with the big vice, beat it with a 5lbs sludge hammer and it would not give. End up I crack the plastic bottle and the bottle start leaking. I had to return it for an exchange......with the cap still on it!!!! I would have got it off if it were steel. Image I beat on it so hard so many time that the vibration crack the soft plastic bottle. Don't tell me those "plastic" are weaker than steel. The only think I worry is if it operate in super hot or super cold environment like in the engine or deep freeze condition.

Nutsedge
04-18-2012, 08:35 AM
Good Point about the glock, that may be an idea the folks who don't want a plastic deck can absorb a bit easier.

I'm not sure what a 'bottle of boost' is and perhaps I'm just not familiar and it's an engine treatment or something?

Hey if polycarbonates are good enough for the cockpit shield on a f-18 super hornet in the form of Lexan, than I highly doubt I'll be subjecting my HRX to any more trying task than they would be!
Posted via Mobile Device

Bigfish8
04-18-2012, 08:49 AM
I have owned a Honda Self Propelled Mower with the "plastic composite deck" for at least 10 years. I would not say it has been abused but it certainly has not been babied at all. The mower was power washed and serviced this past weekend and honestly still looks new. I have used it exclusively with a rear bag taking nearly 1.5 hours weekly to cut my yard. I recently purchased a Gravely Compact Pro for the yard (I want to shorten the cutting time, cut more often and just being lazy) so the Honda will be used now only on occasion for small trimming situations.

If I were in the market for a new walk behind home mower today I would not hesitate to purchase another Honda with the "plastic composite deck."

Nutsedge
04-18-2012, 11:39 AM
Allrighty, just got off the phone with a very knowledgeable/friendly employee at Honda Power Equipment (Tel: 770-497-6400).

I was correct in my assumption that Xenoy and NeXite are the exact same thing, just that the NeXite is slightly darker in shade. There were some issues between HPE and GE so they had to change the appearance slightly and call it something different Why do you think the X in NeXite is capitalized, in my mind its just there to piss off GE and give some sort of connection to Xenoy but still be legal!). Personally I prefer NeXite as Xenoy sounds like an alien planet/civilization to me.

He also couldn't confirm 100% but also didn't deny at all that the reason the NeXite isn't on commercial mowers was for the reason I cited above. I cant blame Honda, when people think plastic that sounds cheap and when people think whats stronger (as a broad question) plastic or steel/aluminum I would venture that most people would say "the metal, what a stupid question". But that brings up back to the fact that NeXite just simply is not plastic, its much much more and IMO far superior in all aspects to all but the very most expensive metal compositions metallurgists can get by manipulating the compositions. Then that metal is priced straight out of the stratosphere. Ill keep my "plastic". :)

mikeypizano
04-18-2012, 11:57 AM
I have a HRC216HXA and I really wanted the HRX because of the NeXite deck has a lifetime warranty but wanted to go with the commercial model. Personally, I would PREFER the NeXite for the reason of NO RUSTING. I have to say that in the end, I LOVE my HRC and have only about 20 hours on it, but this is the only mower I am using.

Nutsedge
04-18-2012, 12:05 PM
I have a HRC216HXA and I really wanted the HRX because of the NeXite deck has a lifetime warranty but wanted to go with the commercial model. Personally, I would PREFER the NeXite for the reason of NO RUSTING. I have to say that in the end, I LOVE my HRC and have only about 20 hours on it, but this is the only mower I am using.

The HRC is a commercial model correct?

robert@honda
04-18-2012, 01:28 PM
Xenoy® is a material and trademarked name of a polymer material developed by General Electric, and was used to promote the first generation of Honda's HRX-series mowers.

After some discussion, it was decided to use a different name that Honda could own and use exclusively, and Nexite® was created. Xenoy was dropped from all Honda marketing materials. I understand GE still markets the material as Xenoy.

Both Xenoy and Nexite are essentially the same material, the color was changed, but not much else.

Along with the change, Honda starting offering a lifetime limited warranty on all Nexite decks. It applies to non-commerical use, and is valid only for the original retail buyer of the mower.

-Robert@Honda

Caveat: I work for Honda, but the preceding was my opinion alone.

Nutsedge
04-18-2012, 02:27 PM
Xenoy® is a material and trademarked name of a polymer material developed by General Electric, and was used to promote the first generation of Honda's HRX-series mowers.

After some discussion, it was decided to use a different name that Honda could own and use exclusively, and Nexite® was created. Xenoy was dropped from all Honda marketing materials. I understand GE still markets the material as Xenoy.

Both Xenoy and Nexite are essentially the same material, the color was changed, but not much else.

Along with the change, Honda starting offering a lifetime limited warranty on all Nexite decks. It applies to non-commerical use, and is valid only for the original retail buyer of the mower.

-Robert@Honda

Caveat: I work for Honda, but the preceding was my opinion alone.

Nice you have your "straight from the horses mouth", factual insight here Robert!

What would warrant a deck replacement, by Honda, under warranty/for free, on a mower equipped with one?

Alan0354
04-18-2012, 07:25 PM
Good Point about the glock, that may be an idea the folks who don't want a plastic deck can absorb a bit easier.

I'm not sure what a 'bottle of boost' is and perhaps I'm just not familiar and it's an engine treatment or something?

Hey if polycarbonates are good enough for the cockpit shield on a f-18 super hornet in the form of Lexan, than I highly doubt I'll be subjecting my HRX to any more trying task than they would be!
Posted via Mobile Device

I must be spelling wrong, it was brandy!!!:laugh:
Man, I tell you, the cap looked so thin, less than 1mm. I thought I just ply it off, then hammer, then pounding!!! At the end, that thing did not even change shape. The pounding cracked the soft bottle plastic just from the vibration!!!

Lexan is used for bullet proof glass!!!

Nutsedge
04-18-2012, 07:33 PM
I must be spelling wrong, it was brandy!!!:laugh:
Man, I tell you, the cap looked so thin, less than 1mm. I thought I just ply it off, then hammer, then pounding!!! At the end, that thing did not even change shape. The pounding cracked the soft bottle plastic just from the vibration!!!

Lexan is used for bullet proof glass!!!

It sure is tough, lexan is used in lots of places a metal substitute wouldn't hold up, plus they can formulate these compounds to be clear so as you said they can make bullet proof glass, **** pits, vehicle headlight lenses.

mikeypizano
04-18-2012, 08:14 PM
Yes the HRC is the commercial model Honda. I love mine like I said!

Nutsedge
04-18-2012, 08:20 PM
Wow, with as little as you use that beast it may become a family heirloom and your great grand children may be cutting their lawns with it in 2059!

Why get a commercial mower to use so little I must ask though?
Posted via Mobile Device

mikeypizano
04-18-2012, 09:14 PM
Wow, with as little as you use that beast it may become a family heirloom and your great grand children may be cutting their lawns with it in 2059!

Why get a commercial mower to use so little I must ask though?
Posted via Mobile Device

I am just really starting out, this is the first year I have it. The problem is the grass is still growing slow here so I didn't really get into full bore mowing yet.

weeze
04-18-2012, 09:38 PM
personally i wouldn't even bother buying the commercial model. i'm sure it will last longer but the nexite mower is 6.5hp where as the commercial is 5.5hp. the residential can discharge, mulch, bag, or any combination of those without any added attachments. the commercial model needs attachments. i'd just buy 2 of the nexite mowers which would be about the same price of a commercial one. 2 of those should last as long as 1 commercial mower so you would end up paying the same price overall. personally i hardly use a 21" mower at all. i just use it on a few accounts now and then so the nexite model would be perfect for me.

mikeypizano
04-18-2012, 09:40 PM
personally i wouldn't even bother buying the commercial model. i'm sure it will last longer but the nexite mower is 6.5hp where as the commercial is 5.5hp. the residential can discharge, mulch, bag, or any combination of those without any added attachments. the commercial model needs attachments. i'd just buy 2 of the nexite mowers which would be about the same price of a commercial one. 2 of those should last as long as 1 commercial mower so you would end up paying the same price overall. personally i hardly use a 21" mower at all. i just use it on a few accounts now and then so the nexite model would be perfect for me.

This is my only mower actually.

bulhead19
04-18-2012, 09:40 PM
Jason, what model Honda 21 do you have?

weeze
04-18-2012, 09:45 PM
mine isn't actually a honda. it just has a honda engine on it. the gcv 160. it is a craftsman self propelled pushmower. i've had it over 5 years and it still works like it's brand new.


http://i53.tinypic.com/3177erk.jpg

Eric Vest
04-19-2012, 12:06 AM
[QUOTE=Nutsedge;4385643]I'm sorry Eric Vest but you just seem like a disgruntled employee.

I find it curious that this thread was restarted after so many years. I would not call myself a disgruntled employee. I talked with the executives at the North Carolina Honda Power Equipment plant a few years after the Harmony line was introduced and they stated Honda switched to a plastic deck primarily to reduce costs and not to improve quality. The aluminum deck Masters line was just too expensive to manufacture. Even 20 years ago, Masters mowers retailed close to $1,000. The high pressure die cast machine at Honda Power Equipment's North Carolina plant was used to make automotive transmission cases after Honda quit making lawnmower decks out of aluminum. They shipped these transmission cases to Honda’s transmission plant in Anna Ohio. I talked to several members of the executive team and they all collaborated what I said above. Also, I have talked to Honda dealers who preferred the Masters line over the Harmony line. A neighbor and my brother bought Harmony mowers and did not like them. My brother's mower deck cracked as I stated above and he used this mower for a trim mower so it did not get that much use. Both my brother and neighbor bought relatively inexpensive steel deck Troy Built MTD mowers with Honda engines to replace their Harmony mowers. Both my neighbor and brother told me they like the Troy Built mowers better than the Hondas. I bought a Law-Boy Gold Series 2 cycle lawnmower with an aluminum deck 15 years ago and it still works like it did when it was new and I paid considerable less than a comparable Harmony. If I wanted an expensive mower with a Honda engine, I think I would look at the commercial Snapper HI VAC with the commercial Honda engine. The Snapper HI VAC deck is made of heavy gage steel and these mowers seem to last a long time and perform well.

robert@honda
04-19-2012, 08:31 AM
Nice you have your "straight from the horses mouth", factual insight here Robert!

What would warrant a deck replacement, by Honda, under warranty/for free, on a mower equipped with one?

It would have to pass a few conditions:
a. Must be purchased after the lifetime warranty policy on Nexite decks went into effect.
b. Must be clearly used as a private, residential mower, with no evidence of commercial use.
c. Must be still owned by the original retail purchaser.

After all that, it's kind of a case-by-case basis; generally, cosmetics are not covered (scratches, weathering, etc.) but genuine failures of material (cracks, broken parts etc.) are considered. It must be clear the failure was not due to an accident, but a genuine defect in the failed part. The warranty is not a "no matter what happens, we'll replace it" but really a "if we can determine there's an honest defect" policy.

I see a report on warranty claims all the time and can tell you Nexite deck replacements are not on the radar. Honda has the formula figured out (it has been nearly 15 years the material has been in use) and it has proved to be an excellent choice.

The following is in bold just to make sure everyone here understands:

-Robert@Honda

Caveat: I work for Honda, but the preceding was my opinion alone.

Nutsedge
04-19-2012, 08:50 AM
It's amazing the difference between what a happy employee states and not.
Posted via Mobile Device

robert@honda
04-19-2012, 08:53 AM
Honda is always thinking about both consumer and commercial markets, and tries very hard to make mowers that fit needs, wants, and price points.

In the case of a Nexite (a.k.a. "plastic") mower for commercial users, it is my humble opinion Honda would love to offer one, but must first make sure it can hold up to commercial duty cycles. Critical parts, such as the transmission, must be able to survive many, many hours of operation without failure to satisfy Honda's engineering standards for reliable operation.

If you look at Honda's two current commercial mowers, the HRC216HXA uses a shaft-drive GXV160 engine driving a proven hydrostatic transmission. This combination has been in use for a long time and has solid track record. The other HRC is a push model, and uses a commercial version of the GC-series engine, the GSV160.

Now look at the consumer/ residential models: sure, they're all 100% Honda, but the standards for expected durability are not as high as they are for commercial models. The HRX models with the Nexite decks all are self-propelled and have belt-drive transmissions. While this combination is fine for < 5 hours of use a week, it's my opinion they may not hold up to the daily grind of a commercial operator. I also suspect there's no way to incorporate the GXV160's engine/shaft-drive and matching transmission into the currently-tooled Nexite mower deck. I think this may be the reason the HRC models use a modified version of the HRR-series steel deck.

If it's any consolation, I'll share a little secret with you: Honda HRC mowers do have Nexite wheels, a big improvement over the costly steel wheels used in the past.

-Robert@Honda

Caveat: I work for Honda, but the preceding was my opinion alone.

DreamHomeStudio
07-03-2012, 02:17 PM
After doing what I thought was careful research, I decided to spend $780 on a Honda lawn mower because of what I thought were superior engineering and manufacturing practices.

The result is that the Xenoy deck began cracking. *I mow only my small yard, I am not a professional.

I spent over 15 months communicating with Honda Equipment's headquarters in Georgia. *After promises that calls would be returned and were not, and following an incident wherein I was mowing my yard and the Xenoy support that held the well assembly cracked and the week fell completely off of my lawn mower, I contacted*Scott Conner, vice president, Honda Power Equipment. *I invested even more time in sharing with his personal assistant. *
The result: *Mr Conner did not return my call. He had another gentleman call me (he did not identify himself), and that gentleman told me "Scott is not going to call you. The only person you get to talk to is me." *He demanded that I produce documentation stating that my Honda mower had a lifetime warranty on the Xenoy deck. *When I said I did not have the paperwork that came with the mower, he said "well then we don't have to do anything for you. The burden of proof is on you to prove that you have a warranty."

I would not purchase Honda Power Equipment. Honda's legendary superior engineering and manufacturing practices no longer exist on their power equipment products, and Honda as a company refuses to stand behind their products and the promises of their dealers as well as Honda Sales Representatives who are in retailers selling their products.*

Nutsedge
07-03-2012, 02:21 PM
After doing what I thought was careful research, I decided to spend $780 on a Honda lawn mower because of what I thought were superior engineering and manufacturing practices.

The result is that the Xenoy deck began cracking. *I mow only my small yard, I am not a professional.

I spent over 15 months communicating with Honda Equipment's headquarters in Georgia. *After promises that calls would be returned and were not, and following an incident wherein I was mowing my yard and the Xenoy support that held the well assembly cracked and the week fell completely off of my lawn mower, I contacted*Scott Conner, vice president, Honda Power Equipment. *I invested even more time in sharing with his personal assistant. *
The result: *Mr Conner did not return my call. He had another gentleman call me (he did not identify himself), and that gentleman told me "Scott is not going to call you. The only person you get to talk to is me." *He demanded that I produce documentation stating that my Honda mower had a lifetime warranty on the Xenoy deck. *When I said I did not have the paperwork that came with the mower, he said "well then we don't have to do anything for you. The burden of proof is on you to prove that you have a warranty."

I would not purchase Honda Power Equipment. Honda's legendary superior engineering and manufacturing practices no longer exist on their power equipment products, and Honda as a company refuses to stand behind their products and the promises of their dealers as well as Honda Sales Representatives who are in retailers selling their products.*

That sucks but why did you not keep the paperwork to your $780 mower?

GMLC
07-03-2012, 02:45 PM
Honda has always gone above and beyond to help me.

This story sounds fishy to me. There is always a paper trail of a purchase.
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weeze
07-03-2012, 02:53 PM
dang i just read the first few pages of this thread and there is nothing but misinformation in the comments. where do these people get their info from?

Nutsedge
07-03-2012, 04:14 PM
I'm just saying, if Honda were to replace the deck on this mower for you with no paperwork then they would have to do it for everyone. That's not the business' (Honda) fault the paperwork was lost and like was said, there should be a paper trail from where you bought it.

Roger
07-03-2012, 04:56 PM
...

This story sounds fishy to me. There is always a paper trail of a purchase.
Posted via Mobile Device


Agree. And, there is more to the story that is not being shared.

rlitman
07-03-2012, 05:37 PM
Hi, welcome to the forum. Interesting first post.
Why don't you at least back this claim up with some pictures detailing your damage?

Oh, and what model plastic deck Honda is $780? The prices I've seen jump from $700 to $850 between the HRX217HYA (replaced the HRX217HXA at the same price) and the HRX217HZA (which I believe replaced the HRX217HMA at the same price).

When did you purchase this mower? Did you buy it from a dealer? I'm sure they can look up the date you purchased it, and reference the warranty. There is plenty of information on the internet about the xenoy deck warranty (and it's change from a 5 year warranty to a lifetime over the years).

dahammer
07-03-2012, 06:18 PM
Even though I personally would have done my best to keep up with the paperwork, the truth is you shouldn't have too do that. If the mower is under warranty, they should fix it instead of trying to weasel out of it over some technicality like paperwork. I'm sure in this modern era we live in that they could track the mower serial number back to date and place it was purchased, if they wanted too.

Nutsedge
07-03-2012, 08:28 PM
I don't think so. If you were a business owner with a warranty attached to the service/product you rendered, you would have guidelines that would need to be met in order for that warranty to apply. Sure, there's a bit of give here or there but having nothing to link you to the product then thinking your going to get that warranty claim covered is just wrong.

If this were me in that situation I may try to make a call/send an email but if I got nowhere I would have no one to blame but myself for not following the guidelines.

Plain and simple.
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dahammer
07-03-2012, 09:24 PM
I don't think so. If you were a business owner with a warranty attached to the service/product you rendered, you would have guidelines that would need to be met in order for that warranty to apply. Sure, there's a bit of give here or there but having nothing to link you to the product then thinking your going to get that warranty claim covered is just wrong.

If this were me in that situation I may try to make a call/send an email but if I got nowhere I would have no one to blame but myself for not following the guidelines.

Plain and simple.
Posted via Mobile Device

Guess we have a difference in opinion then. If the product is in warranty, the only link you "should" need is the fact that you have the product in hand. You can take a broken Craftsman wrench into any Sears store in the country and get it replaced without any paperwork because it is warranted for life and they stand behind it. All I'm saying is that companies should not attach so many strings to their warranties. It has gotten to the point that there are so many hoops to jump through to get something warranted that they are useless a lot of the time. A lot of companies play the odds and try to avoid warranty claims at all costs instead of standing behind their products like they should. Didn't send in that registration card? Eh, sorry the warranty agreement requires that you do that. Lost your receipt? Tough.

Eric Vest
07-03-2012, 10:41 PM
Guess we have a difference in opinion then. If the product is in warranty, the only link you "should" need is the fact that you have the product in hand. You can take a broken Craftsman wrench into any Sears store in the country and get it replaced without any paperwork because it is warranted for life and they stand behind it. All I'm saying is that companies should not attach so many strings to their warranties. It has gotten to the point that there are so many hoops to jump through to get something warranted that they are useless a lot of the time. A lot of companies play the odds and try to avoid warranty claims at all costs instead of standing behind their products like they should. Didn't send in that registration card? Eh, sorry the warranty agreement requires that you do that. Lost your receipt? Tough.
It seems like several people cannot stand a difference of opinion on Honda mowers and Honda plastic decks in particular. I guess it's your turn to be "in the barrel," Dahammer. I stated my opinions earlier this year based on my experiences, my brother's experiences, my neighbor's experiences, a respected second generation power equipment store owner's experiences, but was dismissed in a back handed fashion. What is the market share of Honda plastic deck mowers? It is probably less than 10%. The vast majority of the American buying public must not be that impressed with Honda plastic deck mowers. I particularly like the comment that plastic must be good because Glock uses plastic in its pistol frames. I will be impressed with plastic when Caterpillar starts making their bulldozers out of plastic.

dahammer
07-04-2012, 12:37 AM
It seems like several people cannot stand a difference of opinion on Honda mowers and Honda plastic decks in particular. I guess it's your turn to be "in the barrel," Dahammer. I stated my opinions earlier this year based on my experiences, my brother's experiences, my neighbor's experiences, a respected second generation power equipment store owner's experiences, but was dismissed in a back handed fashion. What is the market share of Honda plastic deck mowers? It is probably less than 10%. The vast majority of the American buying public must not be that impressed with Honda plastic deck mowers. I particularly like the comment that plastic must be good because Glock uses plastic in its pistol frames. I will be impressed with plastic when Caterpillar starts making their bulldozers out of plastic.

I thought the Glock comparisons were interesting as well. What they failed to mention is that Glock uses metal where strength/durability is needed like for the barrels, slides and frame rails. The polymer is there to reduce weight/bulk not because it's superior to metal. I wander why they don't make the barrels out of plastic? :)

Anyway, I don't really have a dog in this hunt. I just think companies should stand behind their products if they are under warranty and instead of finding loopholes/technicalities to justify not honoring the warranty. There was a thread on here the other day where a guy had a brand new Bad Boy ZTR that blew the engine in less than 10 hours and he was having all sorts of trouble getting that straightened out. What a bunch of whoee. They should have just exchanged that mower and sent him on his way.

nolatoolguy
07-04-2012, 04:31 AM
I really dont care how light weight, cheap, easier to manuever, etc a mower can be but something just shouldnt be plastic. I prefer an will only use metal. No way will I use plastic.

leon2245
07-04-2012, 04:44 AM
Just about every company makes you jump through some hoops in order to cash in on warranties, because the reality is if they didn't, then all the scammers who take advantage of loose policies like those mentioned of craftsman/sears (who has coincidentally recently outsourced manufacturing to China- I hope the scammers who scavenge rusted out trashed craftsman tools & take them into sears, exchange them for NIB ones, then exchange those for store credit & sell them etc. didn't contribute to the necessity of that move), it would sink them.

Even if you do everything right, perfect, maintenance records, keep up with your paperwork, meet all the conditions etc. you'll be lucky if even then you actually get anything out of them. Reread the language used by the honda employee here (not the temp, but the other guy claiming to be an actual employee of honda who was discussing warranties). The burden of proof is on the consumer, and tie goes to Honda, i.e. it must be conclusively determined you did everything right (vs. them merely NOT being able to determine you did something wrong).

Eithr way, if Honda ever puts their nexite deck on a push mower with a commercial engine & nexite wheel etc. I'll be first in line & won't give a damn about warranties!

Roger
07-04-2012, 06:17 AM
....

Eithr way, if Honda ever puts their nexite deck on a push mower with a commercial engine & nexite wheel etc. I'll be first in line & won't give a damn about warranties!

How many service hours would you expect from such a mower for the combination to be worthwhile?

Roger
07-04-2012, 06:18 AM
...

a mower can be but something just shouldnt be plastic. I prefer an will only use metal. No way will I use plastic.


And, the reasoning would be ....?

leon2245
07-04-2012, 06:30 AM
How many service hours would you expect from such a mower for the combination to be worthwhile?

I'll go in with no expectations- i'm willing to pay for the privilege to test it for them.

:)

Nutsedge
07-04-2012, 08:57 AM
Heat is the reason Glock doesn't use polymer for its barrels. A resin will not have the same strength under heat as a metal. At least not yet, it's just the way the molicules are aligned.

And that caterpillar comment could not be more ludicrous. I'm sure you could get a polymer cat or better yet how about a carbon fiber cat! It's all about the cost, a polymer cat would cost many times more than a metal one.
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Ngog_Nrythrng
07-04-2012, 05:08 PM
Heat is the reason Glock doesn't use polymer for its barrels. A resin will not have the same strength under heat as a metal. At least not yet, it's just the way the molicules are aligned.

No, it is not heat. You do not know what you are talking about. Yet, you still post with absolute conviction.

If anyone needed a reason to completely discount Nutsedge's previous posts in this thread, he just delivered.

:dizzy:


Anyone interested in why gun barrels are steel can go to a reputable firearms forum and find out, and it has nothing to do with how "the molicules" are aligned. :laugh:

doublesharp
07-04-2012, 07:03 PM
This HR173 17" 40lb plastic deck is probably older than many forum members. :)

I bought it used in the early 90s. Still starts first pull and is the best trim mower I've ever used.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e255/doublesharp/BILD0919.jpg

jkingrph
07-04-2012, 07:52 PM
Did you all realize this argument had been going on since April , 2005. at least in this thread, just over 7 years!

Roger
07-04-2012, 07:54 PM
Did you all realize this argument had been going on since April , 2005. at least in this thread, just over 7 years!

Time-transcendent topic! Argument ...? Not sure the discussion would be stretched that far.

Nutsedge
07-04-2012, 10:03 PM
No, it is not heat. You do not know what you are talking about. Yet, you still post with absolute conviction.

If anyone needed a reason to completely discount Nutsedge's previous posts in this thread, he just delivered.

:dizzy:


Anyone interested in why gun barrels are steel can go to a reputable firearms forum and find out, and it has nothing to do with how "the molicules" are aligned. :laugh:

So you must be a molecular chemist too huh???
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Nutsedge
07-04-2012, 10:06 PM
Time-transcendent topic! Argument ...? Not sure the discussion would be stretched that far.

I just think its the limp wristed arguments and posts like the one I quoted in my above post that demand a response.

This guy Probly owns or has shot a Glock so he believes he is an authority on the subject.
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Mtnmn
07-04-2012, 10:55 PM
Company's make us jump thru bullsh#t hoops because people are abusing the warranty's and satisfaction guarantee's.

Like the person who took a Stanley thermos made 1953 back to wally world, they weren't in business in 1953.

I worked with a guy that bought a tiller from Menards, and took it back after he tilled his garden said it didn't work. they took it back and told him not to come back and shop there any more because he returned to many purchases. He also bought a HD camcorder from Costco and took it back after taping his daughter's wedding.

People buy tools from the big box stores and take them back after using them and say they broke, and don't want a replacement and want a refund. The stores don't even see if the tools work or not, put them in a bin and call manufacturer and get credit,and the stores pitch'em .

There is even a nation wide list that stores can subscribe to that has the names of customers that chronically returns purchases and will refuse returns for any reason

This is not to say those of you that had your polymer decks crack from normal use companies get pi$$ed at getting scammed just as much as you or I do.

Also courtesy and attitude can make a big difference if and how your claim will handled.

robert@honda
07-05-2012, 12:30 PM
Just to clear things up a bit:

Honda does keep digital records of every mower sold. When Honda sells a mower to a dealer, that is called the "invoice date."

When the dealer sells the mower to a retail customer, the mower should be registered with Honda as a retailed mower. In the case of an independent Honda dealer, they usually take the time to collect the customer's information and register the purchase online, so Honda knows when that specific unit was sold. This "retail sale" date starts the clock on the warranty.

Now with Home Depot, the mower is often sold in the box, and it falls on the customer to register the sale. This is just filling out a postage-paid registration card with name-address and copying down the serial number off the back of the mower deck.

Of course, some dealers don't always register every sale, and many customers don't bother to fill out and mail the registration card. Not a big deal in most cases. Honda still knows when the unit was wholesaled (invoice date). When/if a mower is brought in for warranty work, the Honda systems can tell the servicing dealer the "retail sale" and/or the "invoice" date, so see if the unit is still in the warranty period. If there is no "retail sale" date or record of registration, Honda uses the "invoice date" to establish the first day of the warranty.

Pretty much any mower sold by Honda in the past 15 years shows up in the systems used by Honda dealers. Just punch in the serial number off the back of the mower deck, and the dealer can see when the warranty started.

If the only date in the system is an "invoice date" then it's possible the customer bought some time later, and might think they should still be under warranty.

For example, if a mower has a three year warranty, and was invoiced to the dealer on 1/1/2010, it could sit unsold for X months. Let's say it finally was retailed on 7/1/2010, but neither the dealer (or Home Depot) or the customer completed the registration.

Fast-foward to 5/1/2013, and the mower breaks. The customer, remembering he bought it not quite three years ago, takes in in for warranty work. The dealer checks the dates on the Honda system, and sees (a) it was never registered as retail sale (b) the only working date is the invoice date of 1/1/2010. At this point, the warranty appears to be expired since the only date Honda has on file is the "invoice date." Not all is lost. If the customer can show proof of purchase, Honda can then enter a genuine "retail sale" date, and Volia! The warranty is still in effect. All it takes is a good dealer and/or a phone call to Honda to square it up.

Bottom line? Warranty is Warranty, and paperwork is only necessary if there's a discrepancy between the "invoice date" and actual "retail sale" date. Otherwise, just having the serial number is enough to confirm if the warranty is still active.

Notes

• Honda customers do not have to register to obtain warranty service. The only exception is as described above, if there's a discrepancy between the invoice and retail selling dates.

• You can read the current Honda Distributor's Warranty at this link:
Distributor's Limited Warranty, Honda Power Equipment (http://powerequipment.honda.com/pdf/warranty/p-pwl50623-q.pdf)

• Why Register If It's Not Necessary? Registration confirms the actual retail delivery date and makes sure the customer gets the full length of the warranty applied to his mower. Also, in the unlikely event there's ever a Product Safety Recall, Honda uses customer registration data to contact those customers. Honda never shares personal customer information with anyone. Honda will always ask you to "opt in" if you want to get any communications direct from Honda.

-Robert@Honda

Caveat: I work for Honda, but the preceding was my opinion alone.

Eric Vest
07-08-2012, 08:26 AM
It would have to pass a few conditions:
a. Must be purchased after the lifetime warranty policy on Nexite decks went into effect.
b. Must be clearly used as a private, residential mower, with no evidence of commercial use.
c. Must be still owned by the original retail purchaser.

After all that, it's kind of a case-by-case basis; generally, cosmetics are not covered (scratches, weathering, etc.) but genuine failures of material (cracks, broken parts etc.) are considered. It must be clear the failure was not due to an accident, but a genuine defect in the failed part. The warranty is not a "no matter what happens, we'll replace it" but really a "if we can determine there's an honest defect" policy.

I see a report on warranty claims all the time and can tell you Nexite deck replacements are not on the radar. Honda has the formula figured out (it has been nearly 15 years the material has been in use) and it has proved to be an excellent choice.

The following is in bold just to make sure everyone here understands:

-Robert@Honda

Caveat: I work for Honda, but the preceding was my opinion alone.

I just talked with my brother during a family gathering this weekend. He said he presented his purchase receipt when his mower deck cracked around the wheel attachments to a Honda Power Equipment dealer and they would not honor the warranty. He purchased his mower in 1997. The dealer said the mower was too old. This was several years ago.

jkingrph
07-08-2012, 12:36 PM
Heat is the reason Glock doesn't use polymer for its barrels. A resin will not have the same strength under heat as a metal. At least not yet, it's just the way the molicules are aligned.

Not so. Steel is used in bearing or sliding surfaces. Glock uses steel inserts in their polymer frames for the wear surfaces, and probably spring contact points( I am not an expert on Glocks, never having had one). Steel is also needed for the barrel to withstand the immense pressures of literally reshaping the bullet, cutting the rifeling into the bullet and the cutting effect of the hot gasses at very high velicity and pressure.

As for barrels, way back in the 1960's I think, Winchester had a shotgun with a fiberglass barrel. It had a very thin steel insert to handle friction and cutting forces of hot gas, but was wound with miles and miles of fine fiberglass thread then resin treated.

Remington made some .22 rifles back in the 50's, the Nylon 66 in semi auto, almost all nylon again except for a steel barrel insert springs and other "wear"parts such as trigger, sear, firing pin.

Currently many makers of firearms produce guns with alluminum and or alloy frames. In semi autos, the slides are usually steel for the weight, with other parts being steel for wear resistance.

I have a S&W Scandium Lite, with a frame and barrel shroud of a scandium alloy. I think the cylinder is titanium but am not sure but I know it is not steel. It does have a stainless steel barrel insert, again for resistance to wear from bullet friction and cutting action of hot gasses.. The alloys used are capable of withstanding the pressures involved but will not withstand the friction and hot gasses.


Right now polymers(plastics) have earned their place in the production of high quality goods within their limitations. This to me means structural parts that are not subjected to heavy friction, or high pressure, high velocity, hot gasses. Who knows what the future will bring, possibly polymer parts with ceramic type coatings to withstand friction and cutting actions may be in the cards, I had seen something about this several years ago referencing research into engine development using polymers and ceramics.

Right now my question is how long will the polymer parts last, such as the mower deck or Glock frames. What will be the long term effect of heat, ultaviolet exposure, or simply exposure to air.

Nutsedge
07-08-2012, 01:59 PM
Friction = heat
Posted via Mobile Device

Eric Vest
07-09-2012, 08:44 AM
On the Garden Web website I saw a "Xenoy decks on Hondas" thread which discussed cracking problems on Honda plastic mower decks. This thread is located:

http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/lmower/msg021036046882.html?6

Apparently, Honda plastic mower decks cracking is not an unusual problem.

Nutsedge
07-09-2012, 10:45 AM
A post on another forum with only one person saying they had problems and another guy saying "I am see a lot of Honda HRB 215,216 comming in the shop with cracks in the Bodies." That was their ONLY post, the original one for the thread...

There were actually more people in that thread saying they had great luck with their Xenoy/Nexite decks.

robert@honda
07-09-2012, 02:15 PM
I just talked with my brother during a family gathering this weekend. He said he presented his purchase receipt when his mower deck cracked around the wheel attachments to a Honda Power Equipment dealer and they would not honor the warranty. He purchased his mower in 1997. The dealer said the mower was too old. This was several years ago.

The lifetime warranty on the NeXite (Xenoy) mower decks did not start until November 2006. Only mowers purchased AFTER November 2006 are eligible for the lifetime deck warranty.

Before then, the warranty for the mower deck was 60 months. So, a mower bought on 12/31/1997 would have a warranty through 12/31/2002.

-Robert@Honda

Caveat: I work for Honda, but the preceding was my opinion alone.

weeze
07-09-2012, 03:27 PM
yeah no worries about the deck. if it was gonna crack and such they wouldn't offer a lifetime warranty on it. i think the only way to crack it would be to drop it off the top of the empire state building. they even show in the video where they hit it with a sledgehammer and drive an suv over the nexite deck and it doesn't damage it at all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSqOYvROoFg&list=FLCwVBN_IEXm4680w3jyY6KQ&index=4&feature=plpp_video

Nutsedge
07-09-2012, 03:56 PM
yeah no worries about the deck. if it was gonna crack and such they wouldn't offer a lifetime warranty on it. i think the only way to crack it would be to drop it off the top of the empire state building. they even show in the video where they hit it with a sledgehammer and drive an suv over the nexite deck and it doesn't damage it at all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSqOYvROoFg&list=FLCwVBN_IEXm4680w3jyY6KQ&index=4&feature=plpp_video

I like this one much better... very calming!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QiORCymH-XA&feature=related

Eric Vest
07-09-2012, 05:12 PM
A post on another forum with only one person saying they had problems and another guy saying "I am see a lot of Honda HRB 215,216 comming in the shop with cracks in the Bodies." That was their ONLY post, the original one for the thread...

There were actually more people in that thread saying they had great luck with their Xenoy/Nexite decks.

2 out of 8 postings on this thread were positive on the Honda plastic decks. These owners had mowers that were 5 and 7 years old. The first post was a lawn mower repair shop shop employee who stated he saw "a lot of Honda HRB 215,216 comming in the shop with cracks" and an owner who stated his mower had more than one crack. The other posts were either neutral or negative.

http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/...6046882.html?6