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HazyDavy
04-12-2005, 01:53 PM
does my lush, green lawn start to turn brown in spots/patches whenever we string 2 or 3 eighty degree days in a row??? Same thing happened last year. I over seeded heavily in the fall, and fertilized in september, october, and november with Espoma Organic Lawn fertilizer. All winter long my grass stayed very green. Early this spring, ditto, very green and full. Maybe the nicest lawn in the neighborhood. Now the brown patches are showing up. I did go heavy on the pre-emergent(CGM) a little over 2 weeks ago, but that shouldn't affect anything. WTF? What am I doing wrong?

PS - I did put down Milky Spore last summer, so I don't think it's a grub problem. I also think it's too early for grubs and/or brown patch fungis.

Appalachian landscape
04-12-2005, 03:28 PM
I looked at a milky spore bag today and it says to do 3 apps one year and 3 apps the following year to completely get rid of grubs (spring, summer, and fall).

HazyDavy
04-12-2005, 04:00 PM
Geez, I bought a can at Lowes and that's not what it said. That's a lot of applications. Might have to reluctantly resort to chemicals. :realmad:

SodKing
04-12-2005, 04:48 PM
does my lush, green lawn start to turn brown in spots/patches whenever we string 2 or 3 eighty degree days in a row??? Same thing happened last year. I over seeded heavily in the fall, and fertilized in september, october, and november with Espoma Organic Lawn fertilizer. All winter long my grass stayed very green. Early this spring, ditto, very green and full. Maybe the nicest lawn in the neighborhood. Now the brown patches are showing up. I did go heavy on the pre-emergent(CGM) a little over 2 weeks ago, but that shouldn't affect anything. WTF? What am I doing wrong?

PS - I did put down Milky Spore last summer, so I don't think it's a grub problem. I also think it's too early for grubs and/or brown patch fungis.


Post some pics....if it were grubs you would be able to peel the grass back like a welcome mat. Post some pics and we will get to the bottom of it for you. Sounds more like a fungus.

Appalachian landscape
04-12-2005, 11:51 PM
I figured it out.

taken from http://www.milkyspore.com/milkyspore.htm FAQ section

Milky Spore Powder in cans is a one time application put down in spots in measuring teaspoon amounts every four feet apart creating a checkerboard pattern of spots throughout your yard. Each spot contains 100 million spores.

Milky Spore Spreader Mix in bags is applied with a drop spreader over every square foot of grass and requires six applications usually Spring and Fall for three years to build the number of spores in any one area to millions of spores.

I was looking at a bag made for the spreader, not the can.

HazyDavy
04-13-2005, 08:22 AM
I've seen the stuff in bags. I actually walked around my lawn with a teaspoon last year to apply it. I put it down right after the Japanese Beetles disappeared in July.

I'll see what I can do to post a pic. I don't have a digital camera at the moment. I did try tugging at some of the dead grass, but it appears to have a pretty good hold, so maybe it is a fungus. Maybe I should nix the CGM from now on. I think I tend to overapply it.

1 more thing to support the fungis theory, on my side lawn the browning is elongated as if it spread with my lawnmower wheel.

GrassR1
04-29-2005, 10:49 AM
Hot weather....High fertility..., haven't you guys ever heard of diseases? You've got prime disease environments going on, and you're describing textbook disease symptoms. Why are you wondering if you applied a useless product correctly?

Milky Spore really has no scientific backing to it's claims of efficacy. The stuff just doesn't work. Any lawn will have occasional years without grubs, just by a natural chance. That doesn't mean the milky spore finally kicked in, it just means your lawn had a lucky year.

Being as though this is an organic forum, I wouldn't recommend fungicides, but it's important to at least understand what you're dealing with. Just have the diseases properly diagnosed, then find more resistant species of grass. Also, try to lower the fertility levels somewhat. You'll lose a bit of the green color, but the lawn will be healthier in the long run.

GrassMasterNC
04-29-2005, 01:42 PM
grubs shouldn't be a problem right now, at least not here...sounds like you have a fungus problem...and from the description, brown patch is the first thing that comes to mind, especially with you being in Raleigh - prime time and temps for it...but post some pics....brown patch is easy to cure with a little TLC.

Matt

HazyDavy
04-29-2005, 02:02 PM
The brown patches haven't spread anymore. Actually my lawn is looking a bit better. What is your recommendation for dealing with brown patch other than with cornmeal?

timturf
04-29-2005, 03:12 PM
Well I'm assuming you are growing a cool season turf, proably tall fescue.

How many lbs per thousand of cgm did you apply?

Which espoma fertilizer did you use for each application, and how many lbs per thousand did you apply?.

Would be leaning towards brown patch, but that is only an educated guess. Brown patch loves excessive nitrogen, daily moisture, and temps above 80 degrees!

Green Quality
05-01-2005, 10:05 PM
2 things you have said 2 or 3 days of 80 f and brown patches show up and same as last year.sounds like dry spots take a shovel and probe area you might find constrution debris or left over sand or something cutting off water to the roots when it gets hot and dry. hope this helps :rolleyes:

HazyDavy
05-02-2005, 11:20 AM
I know I'm gonna take some abuse for this, but I don't worry too much about how much I apply since it's organic, and breaks down slowly. That said, I did 3 applications(Sept,oct.,nov) of the espoma organic lawn fertilizer in the fall. I put a 50lb bag down each time. My lawn is roughly 1500-2000 square feet. This spring I put down 100 pounds of CGM. It was at the end of march. That's all I've put down so far. Could be the problem, aye?

BTW, yes I have a tall fescue lawn. Primarily Plantation Fescue, which is what I overseeded with in the fall.

sheshovel
05-02-2005, 12:18 PM
I'd say you have a problem of putting too much crap down on your lawn.100lbs of preemergent for 2000 sq' is a bit overdoing it
.You say it shoulent affect anything..Well it affects the soil.
And organic fertilizer can mess-up your PH just as much as any chemical can.You say you want to try and stay away from chemicals then drop 100lbs of pre-emergent.
I would diagnose that you have messed -up your soil by overdoing applications and therefore
weakened your lawn opening it up to suseptiblity to disease.
So you can treat the disease,
but intell you get your soil right and learn to properly do applications on your lawn the same problems will arise again and again for you.

timturf
05-02-2005, 04:57 PM
Well I'm assuming you are growing a cool season turf, proably tall fescue.

How many lbs per thousand of cgm did you apply?

Which espoma fertilizer did you use for each application, and how many lbs per thousand did you apply?.Would be leaning towards brown patch, but that is only an educated guess. Brown patch loves excessive nitrogen, daily moisture, and temps above 80 degrees!


Again, what type of grass?

Which espoma? 18-8-6, or 10-6-4, or 18-0-3? I think these are the only turf fert they sell1 I generally use the 18-8-6, tree tone 9-5-4, or bulb tone 4-10-6!



You have applied way too much nitrogen!!!!!!!!! If tho it is organic, it generally release in 8-10 weeks, when soil temps above 55 degrees.

If you used espoma 18-8-6, that contains an organic sythetic nitrogen source that will take up to three years to release! Yes, I know the bag says all nitrogen is organic, but they are referring to the chemist definition!!!!!!1

HazyDavy
05-03-2005, 11:30 AM
Type of grass is Plantation Fescue. I applied the 18-8-6. That stuff isn't organic? It appears organic if you look at the ingredients. I think the 1st ingredient is dehydrated manure.

At this point in time my lawn looks really good. The brown patches are not as noticeable and my lawn is very green. I know that's probably not a good thing going into the hot months.

LonniesLawns
05-03-2005, 06:54 PM
18-8-6 is organic only by chemist definition -- all ingredients are carbon based. However it contans ureaform and Triple super Phosphate -- not what msot peopel think of when they think organic -- which is naturally occuring.

Most of the N you applied last fall in the 18-8-6 is releasing this spring -- since release of voth manure ureaform is temperature dependant. You put down 75#/1000 ft2 of 18-8-6. YOu put down 13.5#N per thousand feet -- about 4.5 years worth of fertilizer in just 3 mos. Then you applied 100# of CGM which is around 10% nitrogen -- another 5#N/1000 this spring. SO ...... you have now applied 18.5#of N -- enough for about 6 years of growth -- problem is most of it will have released by May -- some of the UF will be hanging around for a while -- enought to damage your lawn through the summer and into the Fall.

MORE IS NOT BETTER!

YOU have done everything possible to grow disease -- not much you can do to fix it now -- see how bad it gets and then reseed every fall. Then -- hire a pro -- you would be money ahead already times 10 probably. One bag of 18-8-6 SHould last you 2 years witha 2 thousand square foot lawn.

timturf
05-04-2005, 01:00 PM
18-8-6 is organic only by chemist definition -- all ingredients are carbon based. However it contans ureaform and Triple super Phosphate -- not what msot peopel think of when they think organic -- which is naturally occuring.

Most of the N you applied last fall in the 18-8-6 is releasing this spring -- since release of voth manure ureaform is temperature dependant. You put down 75#/1000 ft2 of 18-8-6. YOu put down 13.5#N per thousand feet -- about 4.5 years worth of fertilizer in just 3 mos. Then you applied 100# of CGM which is around 10% nitrogen -- another 5#N/1000 this spring. SO ...... you have now applied 18.5#of N -- enough for about 6 years of growth -- problem is most of it will have released by May -- some of the UF will be hanging around for a while -- enought to damage your lawn through the summer and into the Fall.
MORE IS NOT BETTER!

YOU have done everything possible to grow disease -- not much you can do to fix it now -- see how bad it gets and then reseed every fall. Then -- hire a pro -- you would be money ahead already times 10 probably. One bag of 18-8-6 SHould last you 2 years witha 2 thousand square foot lawn.


Of the 13.5lbs of n per 1000 sq ft from 18-8-6 espoma, ~3.5lbs of n per 1000 is from uf, and ~33% of that is quick release. So ~2.3 lbs of n per 1000 is slow release, and some of that has released already, without reviewing my notes, I would assume you still have 1.75 to 2 lbs of n per 1000 still to release! Now remember, only about 85% of the slow release portion of uf will release in the first year, the remainder could take another two years! I would add some SULFATE OF POTASH AND IRON to help with the summer stress!

15 to 20 lbs per 1000 per season of 18-8-6 should be plenty of nitrogen and p for each season, you would only have to add some sop, sulfate of potash

get a soil test done

tim

HazyDavy
05-04-2005, 01:57 PM
Thanks Tim, I think I'll do that.

Lonnie, I happen to enjoy working on my own yard/lawn even if I screw it up. It's not the same having a nice yard knowing someone else did it for me. I'm sure you can appreciate that.Eventually I'll learn from my mistakes. At this point in time I have the nicest lawn on the block, and that includes my neighbor across the street who has sod. He's constantly telling me and my wife how great our yard looks.

Thanks again Tim for your input/advice.

LonniesLawns
05-04-2005, 03:30 PM
HazyDavy, you coaught me at abad time and I apologize if the tone of my comments seemed out of place for you. Going back and rereading them I did notice an edge.

I understand wanting it to do it myself. BUT also understand that you are coming and asking professionals whos very livelihood relies on the knowledge and expereince that we have obtained to solve your problems -- but you are not wanting to pay us for it. That would be similar to wanting doctors to tell you what was wrong with you without paying for an office visit or going asking a lawyer to give you advice without paying for a consult.

What I should have done is just not responded. Instead - I vented onto you. I apologize.

HazyDavy
05-04-2005, 03:48 PM
Don't sweat it.

I'm not trying to get something for free. I'm just drawing on the knowledge of people who are more experienced than me. Like you said, you don't have to respond if you don't want too, but it's not like I'm taking business away from you since I'm in Raleigh and you're in Massachusetts.

LonniesLawns
05-04-2005, 04:04 PM
Copied from the front page of lawnsite:

Organic Lawn Care Forum (7 Viewing)
A forum where Green Industry business owners discuss organic garden management; fertilizing schedules; pricing; organic materials and techniques; weed, disease, and pest control; find advice and more.

Homeowner Assistance Forum (6 Viewing)
If you're a homeowner or property manager who stumbled onto LawnSite.com and need to ask the pro's a question post it here.

Noticed you edited your message -- mine make sless ense now :dizzy:

HazyDavy
05-04-2005, 04:10 PM
Got it bookmarked, thanks!