Building a commercial walk behind mower, your info please

[motor86]

I cannot afford to buy a new walk behind mower. They cost too much. I have determined that they are what I want for lawn care. They look like they are very manuverable and not as heavy as a rider.

I am considering building one since I cannot afford one. I have a few questions about the controls and other things. I am going to build a gear drive model.

How do the gear drives steer? Should I make independent brakes on the two drive wheels and press on the one brake to turn?

How are they clutched? Since they are hand clutched, I assume you couldn't have as heavy of a spring. Do they use a belt clutch?

How do they track going accross a flat yard? Do they run strait, or do they want to turn to the side? How about on sidehills?

I am not sure how I want to build this machine. I was considering belt drive, but then I thought of how high the belt tension would have to be. I have also though about a friction plate and wheel system like on a snapper. Then I could shift while on the fly. Any suggestions?

I can buy a 15 year old lawn tractor for $20. I could take the transmission off and engine and deck and put it in a new frame that I would make. I think I could build the whole thing for about $100.

Any imput on this idea, or if anyone in my area has a used commercial mower for cheap (need not run) that I could buy, please reply.

Thank you

[Evan528]

Dont waste your time! Its not a easy task... do you know how much time and research commerical mower companies put into there product? You cant just wip one up in your garage! You can get a decent used commerical walkbehind for 1,000 bucks!

[Island Lawn]

Not me! But,

If you could find junk mowers with all the necessary parts, could you have it running in time for Spring?
How dependable do you think a homebuilt from junk is going to be?

Maybe you are a lot handier w/ a wrench than I am. But I'd rather be cutting grass!

Personally, I went the dealer financing route (last week!).
I got a bullet proof machine w/ a bullet proof warrantee.
And I've got dealer w/ a reputation for helping his customers(ME)

eXmark 48" $3000
Stihl 2 cycle stuff $1000

More of an investment than an expense, and I hope to have it all paid for by the end of the summer!

If you dont want the new stuff, used is certainly a viable option! But I would buy junk that I had to piece together and then hope it would work. Much less try to make a living!

[Shack]

Have you thought about a used walk behind? I am sure you will have better sucess than with a home made.

[Eric ELM]

If I couldn't afford a new mower, I would borrow the money to buy a good used commercial mower. What happens if that thing falls apart and something falls in a the blade and kills someone. Make sure you have good insurance on that mower. You can't sue the mfg. and people are sue happy.

[Esby]

Well, if you are really motivated to do this, then I guess there is no stopping you. But you are a lot better off buying a used one. If you look you can find a decent one for less than it would cost to build one. And if you did succeed on constructing one, I think its a fair bet to say that there will be alot of problems with it. Now, I'm not doubting your abilities, but just saying that there is alot of engineering that goes into making a professional peice of equipment. You will end up spending more time fixing (spending $$) than you will cutting grass.

[VLM]

You may be wrong about weights. Most commercial wbs are made of solid 1/4" steel. They weigh from 600lbs up. I doubt a hardware store tractor is heavier. Definitely buy a used wb. No sense in trying to reinvent the wheel.

[Randy Scott]

You're young, you've got the energy, let us know how it turns out and post a picture of it. Maybe others would want one.

[1MajorTom]

The main thing you need to be concerned about is safety. Building your own mower would probably be hard to meet safety specifications.
Listen to the others, try to find a used one.

[motor86]

Would someone please answere my question. I want info so I can build one, I don't want someone telling me I can't. I have built many machines before, and I know this will work. I will use parts like mower decks off of garden tractors and buy transmissions. Please answer my questions!

Thanks

[LoneStarLawn]

No one will answer if you are going to be like that. These guys are trying to help. You wanted their input and they gave you their input.

[lawrence stone]

Motor wrote:

>I will use parts like mower decks off of garden tractors

Making your own deck from old tin cans would make a stronger deck vs. a deck off a garden tractor.

[Richard Martin]

Please answer my questions!

Instead of reengineering walkbehinds why don't you just go to Exmark's or Gravely's websites and download the parts manuals. This will tell you everything you need to know about how they're built. BTW, tracking is usually controlled by air pressure in the rear tires.

[Mid Rivers]

If you know you can do this, and you know if will work! Why are you asking questions? ;)

[dmk395]

Please post some pictures of this machine when you are done, I am rather curious to see this beast.

[SJR Lawncare]

Please post pictures as you build this thing from start to finish. It will be interesting to see the process.
Thanks SJR

[Cutter1]

I have heard it all!!!

[Eric ELM]

The way it is looking, nobody here has built one. Using a deck off of a lawn tractor isn't going to be very strong. I had one years ago that I bummped a cut off tree stump that bent the whole front of the deck in. I've done the same thing with a commercial deck and didn't hurt it at all. I think the above posts have been your answer. Don't do this, go get a used walk behind commercial mower. I've seen them very cheap too and then you can just rebuild it. If you plan to make a living with this machine, you need a dependable machine to start with. Your customers are not going to be happy if you only show up 1 or 2 times a month if you have to fix a home made machine all the time. We are professionals here, we use professional machines, you should too if you are going to do this for a living. This is the best advice I can give you. Sorry it isn't what you want.
Eric

[1MajorTom]

Motor86,

I see in your profile you like dirtbikes. Would you build a dirtbike with junkyard material then go race it with the big boys? http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/image/ez_icons/emoticons/pimp.gif
Not knocking you, just having a little fun.


MATT

[Cleve]

Originally posted by motor86
I am considering building one since I cannot afford one. I have a few questions about the controls and other things. I am going to build a gear drive model.

How do the gear drives steer? Should I make independent brakes on the two drive wheels and press on the one brake to turn?

How are they clutched? Since they are hand clutched, I assume you couldn't have as heavy of a spring. Do they use a belt clutch?


I have a much better idea. Since you are smart enough at 16 to build one, just drop by any dealer and take about 5 minutes to study the levers and belts on the drive system on a new one. Will be much more informative than ony one of us trying to explain the clutching mechanism or steer system on them. Is really a simple engineered mechanical system and should be easy for you.
Ain't no way you gonna build one for $100 though.
Cleve....

[eslawns]

I'm curious about why you can't afford a mower, new or used. If you're cutting part time, keep the money you're making aside until you have enough to get an adequate machine. If you're cutting full time, what the hell are you using to do it?

If you're determined to build one yourself, and this is collossal stupidity, go to a dealer and look at how they're made, ask questions, and get a brochure or two. Use this as a template. If you needed a car, and had access to a junk yard, would you build one from old wrecks? Even if you did, do you really think it's the same as a new car?

You'd have none of the benefit of the trial and error and years of experience from the existing manufacturers. I'm the kind who usually thinks outside the box, don't do what everyone else does just because they do it. BUT, and this is a big but, the competition for market share is fierce.

The market is leaning away from walk behinds, so this is a good time to be looking for one, dealers will probably lean over backwards to sell one or find a used trade from a guy who wants to get a rider. You do what you want, but this is a bad idea, especially if you plan to use it on other people's lawns. You, as the manufacturer, are responsible for the design and construction on top of its use.

[Double D]

Motor86,
Please listen to these people! There is probably 1000 years of experience on this site, and every single person thinks this is one of the dumbest ideas ever. Get yourself a used machine, the life you save might be your own.

[Keith]

ROTFLMAO :D

Dude, I have no doubt you could fabricate something to work, but why? I have seen used (very) walkbehinds for $300 or less. Yeah, they need work, but at least it's a starting point. Do you want to make money or spend countless hours trying to reinvent the wheel?

[Superior Lawn Care]

Motor86
Where are you from in Iowa, I live in Des Moines and have a used 1990 Toro 44" Belt drive that runs and i will sell it for $500 if you pick it up.
email me at JOHN_BK7@yahoo.com if you want to know more.

[cantoo]

Motor86, I build stuff all the time but I very rarely start from fresh I usually start with something and just make it better or make it do something close to the same type of job. The problem will starting from scratch is dollars, how much do you think it would cost to build a car from scratch by buying parts at a junk yard, it wouldn't take long before you would have more than the new price of a car or more than the price of a used running car. I buy stuff from auctions all the time and tinker with it to make it work or work better. Time and money aside whenever it breaks down and it will, you have to start all over again to fix it. My advice too is to buy a used broken one and rebuilt it. Consider getting a part time job at a dealer and tell them to pay you with a walk behind than someone has traded in and needs work, then work to pay for the parts. By doing this you will gain valuable experience for your future and will end up with a mower that you " built" yourself.

[motor86]

Thank you for the replies.

I stopped by the John deere dealer today and he had none in stock (new or used). I told him I would take a used one if it came in. I told him a blown engine is fine, since I can rebuild an engine easily.

My big plan is to still build this. The basic layout would be a frame, with transmission on back, pivoting wheels out front. Then I could hang the deck from this frame and set the engine in between the deck and transmission.

I have the ability to build this (as questioned above). I have built a water pump. And I have also modified a lawn mower to work like a tractor and bush hog, with a 3.5hp engine on it! It goes through 3ft tall grass. I have built an attachment for a rider that pulls another lawn mower behind so I can mow 64" wide with a 46" deck, plus I can mow larger areas for less money.

I have never taken anything to a shop to be repaired. I rebuild engines a lot, and I build stuff a lot.

I know of where I can get all major components for this machine for under $50.

I currently use a 2000 model year Lawn Boy self-proppelled Goldpro mower. It has a 3sp transmission. I feel I could do more in less time if I had a mower deck with width somewhere between 36 and 48 inches.

I cannot afford this right now due to recent purchases. I just bought a dirt bike, and a truck.

visit my site, http://www.geocities.com/motor86_cr250/home.html
to see my stuff.

[gardin2124]

This guy has been watching too much "junkyard wars" or maybe he is the next Dane Scag, if he knows who Dane Scag is.

[motor86]

I would really like some answers to my questions. It would really help in making this.

Please.

Thanks

[Nathan]

For all of you making fun of this guy, you should remember that the person who invented the hydro system and sold it to scag was a musician who mowed lawns in the summers to earn extra cash. Now he collects a percentage off every hydro mower sold from every company that builds them.

As far as how they are steered. It is a belt drive system with an idler system on each wheel running off a jackshaft. By releasing the idler on one side the belt can slip therefore slowing the drive on that side. They also have a friction brake that can engage when the idler is released beyond a point. It is a simple idea but actually a fairly complex mechanical system. The hyro systems are much more straight forward. If you truly think you can create a working model you really should go to a bunch of shops until you can take a close look at both types of drive system. It may stir some creative juices in you. Good luck.

[motor86]

Thanks. That makes complete sense. I understand that perfectly.

[LoneStarLawn]

I don't believe that anyone is making fun of this guy. He is coming across as someone who wants to make his own equipment for his use, not someone who is looking to design an ADDITION to exsisting models for capital gain. There is a big difference.

[Cutter1]

If you want to build something, so be it. The one thing you must know is, do you really need the dirt bike?? Be all want things, but that one little word gets in the way.....priority. You can always buy a dirtbike. Heck if you sell the bike you can get a good, SAFE, walkbehind. With the money you make with the walkbehind, you can then buy another bike.

[motor86]

I actually have 2, one I am trying to sell. If it sells, for $1300, I will pay off all debts and have about $700 to spend.

I am trying to decide on what I am going to do. I really want a walk behind, or a ZTR, but I know a walk behind would be much cheaper and simpler to build. I am not sure if that $700 should be spent on equiptment or if I should save it. I know the $700 investment in a lawn mower would give back a much better return on the investment than I would earn at a bank.

I currently, in the summer, make about $500 a month. Yes, it is probably a lot less than most of you. If I bought a bigger mower (or built one) I could mow 20. Right now, I have 12, but since I now have a truck to transport me around, I could easily do 15 just in the time saved by driving between lawns instead of walking between lawns.

I think I will head over to a used equiptment place about an hour away from where I live and see what they have for fix-up machines. I still don't like the idea of buying one since it is not made with controls that I would like, but I guess it will have to do. I guess I could remake all of the controls so it can be controlled in a way I like.

[TLS]

Jeff,

Look at what happened with your KDX. Would you want this to happen to a lawnmower with spinning blades? What if that tree was a person....Mom, Dad, Sibling. Just save some money. Mow all you can with the LawnBoy and maybe this time next year buy a NEW walkbehind.

A used one in running condition (not perfect) but running and cutting can go for about $250 to $300. Not bad. Making things gets old when they break. I'm not downing your abilities, just trying to save you some time/energy thats better spent making money. Even a used garden tractor will save you time mowing over a 21" push mower.

Just be safe dude!

[Cutter1]

That guy posted that he would sell you a walkbehind for $500 and he is from Iowa. YOu should consider that!!

[Esby]

Anybody have any tips out there on how I could build a truck?? Thinking of a 4x4 for off road and stuff. I need something really powerful for towing my equipment. What kinds of parts are included in something like that? Gear ratios and things like that would help.

[motor86]

Originally posted by dixie1
Jeff,

Look at what happened with your KDX.


Did I miss something? What did I do to it? I am confused?

I am considering a used one a little more. I emailed that guy first thing after I saw it. The bad thing is that he is 4hours away from me. The good thing is my sister lives about an hour away from him. Maybe I could go see my sister some weekend and pick it up at the same time. I am not sure if it is worth 500 miles of wear on my truck for the trip. 500 miles is $250 of wear on the truck.

No, I will not sell both dirt bikes. I cannot afford to not have them. I bought one 3 weeks ago (the CR250) and I got it for about $800 less than what it is worth. If I sold it, I would be out $800 when it comes summer. I bought it in the winter to save money, since he couldn't find anyone who wanted it this time of year. I don't care, I will rebuild most of the bike, greasing every joint, and relacing all fluids before spring comes and I get to use it. Then I will get a week to ride it without having maintenance.

Anyone else live near northeast Iowa with a junker? ugly, whatever, doesn't bother me, I will probably make some sheet metal covers to cover up some of the stuff anyway.

[VLM]

Come on guys dont be mean, he's only a kid. Besides, I like his spunk. Definitely the type well suited for this forum, and I think he's beginning to realize he can save himself alot of sweat and God forbid blood, by taking the advice of guys who have been working on their own equipment longer than he's been alive.

[motor86]

up

[plow kid]

Hey,

if you have a welder and can weld you can do anything. :rolleyes:

Nate

[lakegastonla]

jeez, I've heard it all now!! Post some pictures when this frankenstein-creation is finished. Also, keep up with the time you have invested in this project. I'll be out making money during the dozens of hours this will take you.



IT'S ALIVE!!! IT'S ALIVE!!! MY GOD IT'S ALIVE!!!!

[eslawns]

I was not picking on him, kid or not. IMO, the best thing about this board is for guys in our biz to share common experience, good or bad, and allow the rest of us to benefit from it.

What I wanted to get across was not a slam on his ability to weld. I make things all the time. But, I do it to save money. I bought trimmer racks and a gate lift. I could have made them, but the time it would have cost me would have been more expensive than what I spent. If I had not had the money, things might have been different.

If this guy has good ability, what he should do is get a used machine and improve it. That would be something that could benefit the industry and his wallet. Remember guys, just because someone is full of ideas, does not mean they are good ideas.

We're not talking about a soap box racer, but a machine that spins a sharp object over 15,000 feet per second. FYI, a 9mm bullet travels at around 1,200 fps. Do you want to stand next to this thing?? I don't, no matter how well he can weld.

[MrFikit]

I know it's alot later and you've either bought one or made one, but I really wanted to put my two cents in on this. Believe me it's alot of work to try and build something like this from scratch. I do this on a daily basis because it's my job as an engineer. Even with solid modeling software and manfacturing backing, it's a wonder I even have this little bit of hair left! There are still many options out there from a variety of manufacters that you can get an entry-level walk-behind for little money. Look around, especially at this time of year, for sales on clearence and previous years models.

[Lawn Sharks]

A 48" John Deere WB with a blown engine just sold on Ebay for $177.

[jsr2741]

All I can say is... Good Luck.:rolleyes:

[HarryD]

he was a scrub that lost interest in the mowing buisness his last post on LS was 3-1-2001 I guess he came to his senses :rolleyes:

[Tony Harrell]

I think his dad bought him a car and he found out what girls are made of!

[justaschmo]

Hey, Aren't you the guy who invented the first telephone. ( the one with the 2 soup cans and a string)? Just wondering!

[Rhett]

Check out his web sight. He traded in dads lawn tractor in for a new craftsman. Gotta wonder how he is paying for it with 48 stops a month for 50 dollars:confused:

[Doc Pete]

Originally posted by motor86
I would really like some answers to my questions. It would really help in making this.Thanks

First, basically "none of us" would bother to make a lawnmower, because we "already" know the headaches and shortcomings of the project and realize how much more "sensable and productive" it is to find a good deal on a used machine.
And second, if you read the above statement "again", you'll realize we "ARE" answering your questions....... you just don't like the answers...........:( :( :(

Pete