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Updog
04-16-2005, 12:29 AM
Have you guys seen the new exmark commercial trying to sell pro equipment to homeowners. I don't like it I understand wanting to make more profit but this seems wrong to me for some reason.What are your opinions.

DALMlawn&landscaping
04-16-2005, 12:49 AM
dang! i just saw that commercial too! i got on to complain as well. as for the commercial goes - what home owner is gonna buy a $7,000+ zero turn mower (sorry if i don't know the real price of one, never really cared enough) for a yard they will only mow once a week. for pros it makes more sense because 8-10 months out of the year they are using them everyday, mowing more then 10 accounts a day. it just seems like a poor choice of advertisement on exmarks part because it shows how shallow and greedy they are or want to be. and its not just me who thinks that, what do you think the wealthy home owner is gonna say when they're like, oh i like that commercial, maybe i should check up on an exmark ztr... the mower cost HOW much?!?!?!?!!!!!

so think of it this way,

exmark ztr - cost - $over 7K
lawn service on a overly sized yard- 60 bucks, per week, lets say, 30 weeks
around 1800 a season
but then you might as well include trimming and blowing and gas and supplies, and time, and inconveinence, and its NOT worth it
come on, is a homeowner willing to make those kinds of sacrafices, paying that much for a mower and mowing as often and doing as good of a job as a pro?

I DONT THINK SO

but i wouldn't mind having one

DALMlawn&landscaping
04-16-2005, 12:54 AM
when is better quick gonna come out with their commercial.

splatz100
04-16-2005, 12:57 AM
i think it was in competition w/ Gravely's

beransfixitinc
04-16-2005, 01:06 AM
dang! i just saw that commercial too! i got on to complain as well. as for the commercial goes - what home owner is gonna buy a $7,000+ zero turn mower (sorry if i don't know the real price of one, never really cared enough) for a yard they will only mow once a week. for pros it makes more sense because 8-10 months out of the year they are using them everyday, mowing more then 10 accounts a day. it just seems like a poor choice of advertisement on exmarks part because it shows how shallow and greedy they are or want to be. and its not just me who thinks that, what do you think the wealthy home owner is gonna say when they're like, oh i like that commercial, maybe i should check up on an exmark ztr... the mower cost HOW much?!?!?!?!!!!!

so think of it this way,

exmark ztr - cost - $over 7K
lawn service on a overly sized yard- 60 bucks, per week, lets say, 30 weeks
around 1800 a season
but then you might as well include trimming and blowing and gas and supplies, and time, and inconveinence, and its NOT worth it
come on, is a homeowner willing to make those kinds of sacrafices, paying that much for a mower and mowing as often and doing as good of a job as a pro?

I DONT THINK SO

but i wouldn't mind having one

Ok, how much do you charge to mow let's say approx 15-20 acres, which includes mowing around a 3 or 4 acre lake. Frequency of mowing is whenever the customer feels the grass is getting too tall, or when he is having a bunch of company over for a party. Currently, it takes him 6-7 hours with a Scag Turf Tiger 61".

So, what is your price?

pagefault
04-16-2005, 01:22 AM
Ok, how much do you charge to mow let's say approx 15-20 acres, which includes mowing around a 3 or 4 acre lake. Frequency of mowing is whenever the customer feels the grass is getting too tall, or when he is having a bunch of company over for a party. Currently, it takes him 6-7 hours with a Scag Turf Tiger 61".

So, what is your price?

Without knowing more, I'd charge about $750 a pop if it was going to be done on a regular basis and $1000 +/- if it was just whenever it got too tall. Although, I would have to really think about it before I agreed to the "whenever it gets too tall" deal. If you mow it when it is too tall, it will look like **** and you might not even want your name on it.

If the customer has 15-20 acres near Austin (depending on how near) and a 61" mower, it sounds like he has a little money. If he has money, it is probably because he is well paid. So, what is 6-7 hours of his time worth? Probably between $725 and $1750, I'd guess. Besides, most people only get 2 days off per week. Why would he want to burn nearly an entire day mowing the lawn?

language

DALMlawn&landscaping
04-16-2005, 01:32 AM
alright, some texas boys, you know what you do for 15-20 acres? i work on a ranch, here's my large area mower and yes, it lays stripes

http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=102199

bulverde for me, san marcos, austin, we're all in the same area, so no excuses

lawnman_scott
04-16-2005, 01:34 AM
Have you guys seen the new exmark commercial trying to sell pro equipment to homeowners. I don't like it I understand wanting to make more profit but this seems wrong to me for some reason.What are your opinions.
Why would it be wrong?

Soupy
04-16-2005, 01:52 AM
dang! i just saw that commercial too! i got on to complain as well. as for the commercial goes - what home owner is gonna buy a $7,000+ zero turn mower (sorry if i don't know the real price of one, never really cared enough) for a yard they will only mow once a week. for pros it makes more sense because 8-10 months out of the year they are using them everyday, mowing more then 10 accounts a day. it just seems like a poor choice of advertisement on exmarks part because it shows how shallow and greedy they are or want to be. and its not just me who thinks that, what do you think the wealthy home owner is gonna say when they're like, oh i like that commercial, maybe i should check up on an exmark ztr... the mower cost HOW much?!?!?!?!!!!!

so think of it this way,

exmark ztr - cost - $over 7K
lawn service on a overly sized yard- 60 bucks, per week, lets say, 30 weeks
around 1800 a season
but then you might as well include trimming and blowing and gas and supplies, and time, and inconveinence, and its NOT worth it
come on, is a homeowner willing to make those kinds of sacrafices, paying that much for a mower and mowing as often and doing as good of a job as a pro?

I DONT THINK SO

but i wouldn't mind having one

The homeowner doesn't look at it like that. They compare the monthly payment against the monthly cost of lawn care. A guy paying $90 a week for a 1 1/2 hour cut might be willing to buy one of these. For 6 hours a month he gets a mower that will last a life time and bragging rights to his neighbors that he owns the same mower that their lawn care uses.

If you figure that the mower will last long past the time the mower payments have stopped. It really doesn't sound to bad to the homeowner. He can throw a Blower and trimmer in for little extra monthly payment too. An ambitious man would have fun cutting his lawn every week and 1 1/2 hours is no different then the homeowner that uses a 21" push mower on a 1/2 acre.

I'm not saying I like the Idea, but I am seeing more and more Homeowners with 1/4 - 1/2 acre lots owning a commercial walk-behind.

pagefault
04-16-2005, 01:55 AM
alright, some texas boys, you know what you do for 15-20 acres? i work on a ranch, here's my large area mower and yes, it lays stripes

http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=102199

bulverde for me, san marcos, austin, we're all in the same area, so no excuses

I'm no rancher, but I have worked a few summers on a tobacco farm. That looks like a TN65 or similar with a 60" rough cut mower. That oughtta clear 15 acres pretty damn quick.

DALMlawn&landscaping
04-16-2005, 02:08 AM
damn you're good, its the TN65 with the 72" squealer! and yes, it clears brush like none other
the way i think-
a mower that last a lifetime..
a home owner that doesn't..
its not that mowing is hard..
its everything else that is..
a homeowner has two days off..
i'd rather be fishing..
have you ever tried edging around even 5 acres on a large country lot??
texas is hot..
most home owners will pass..
and hire some one else..
even if they do it themselves, they'll get the local JD special 42" lawn tractor, good for them, hopefully they have lots of kids, and hopefully their kids have lots of grandkids

pagefault
04-16-2005, 02:23 AM
damn you're good, its the TN65 with the 72" squealer! and yes, it clears brush like none other


I grew up in Connecticut and spent many summers cutting, stringing and hanging tobacco. Driving the rigs from the fields to the barns was one of the perks you got if you were one of the guys who lasted more than one season.

I keep telling my wife that I'm looking for an excuse to get an old Farmall Super C, but I don't think she believes me.

Don't tell anyone I'm a yankee...

beransfixitinc
04-16-2005, 02:23 AM
Without knowing more, I'd charge about $750 a pop if it was going to be done on a regular basis and $1000 +/- if it was just whenever it got too tall. Although, I would have to really think about it before I agreed to the "whenever it gets too tall" deal. If you mow it when it is too tall, it will look like sh*t and you might not even want your name on it.

If the customer has 15-20 acres near Austin (depending on how near) and a 61" mower, it sounds like he has a little money. If he has money, it is probably because he is well paid. So, what is 6-7 hours of his time worth? Probably between $725 and $1750, I'd guess. Besides, most people only get 2 days off per week. Why would he want to burn nearly an entire day mowing the lawn?

He has more than "a little money". He owns the contracting company. And he enjoys mowing his "yard". Says it relaxes him after everything he has to deal with all day. It's just him and his mower and nothing can reach him.

pagefault
04-16-2005, 02:28 AM
He has more than "a little money". He owns the contracting company. And he enjoys mowing his "yard". Says it relaxes him after everything he has to deal with all day. It's just him and his mower and nothing can reach him.

Then, I guess I wouldn't charge him anything. He doesn't sound like a potential customer.

DALMlawn&landscaping
04-16-2005, 02:34 AM
haha, my boss manages an 9billion dollar a year company, yes, you read right, and he loves to mow the yard too, but i make sure everything is done for him so he doesn't even have to worry, every day he comes home and he sees his ranch in perfect condition and all 2 or so acres of st. agustine in pristeine condition, and he can go to bed and wake up happy and spend his weekends doing things with his lovely wife and family.

maybe thats why i dont agree with the exmark commercial, what can be better then having a pro do it for you, or even the ranch hand (in my case). family is important, and if anything, exmark should be advertising that their equipment is one of the best, to further promote the knowledge for home owners, that hey, if some one uses high quality stuff (not just exmark) then they are pros, and the homeowner can relax and leave their yard, their pride and joy, in the hands of others.

Envy Lawn Service
04-16-2005, 04:44 AM
Bad move on the part of eXmark in my opinion.

Sorta like the commercial dealer that has his own mowing crew.
Or the supply company that has it's own applicator crew.

Not a good business practice.
Greed is what it is.

Richard Martin
04-16-2005, 06:01 AM
You all may not like it but Exmark is just trying to reach more of a segment of the population that is already buying the bulk of commercial riders. I know of a commercial dealer locally who's clientle is over 80% homeowner. I bought my "new" Dixie wih only 29 hours on it from a homeowner for $4500. In the right areas there's a lot of money being spent on luxury items from Hummers to Harleys to commercial mowers.

CBB
04-16-2005, 02:42 PM
Guys if you knew the numbers that Exmark was already selling to the homeowner market right now, you would all pass out. The reason that anyone is targeting selling high end ZTR's to a residence, is because a lot of people are getting smarter with their purchases. My father for example has 4 acres. He is 55 yrs old, and is never going to have anyone cut his property other than himself. He bought an LHP 48/20 last year. Takes approx. 2 hours to do the job. So he may put 75 hrs a year on it. In comparison to the lifetime commercially for these mowers, he will never by another lawnmower. He just like others are tired of spending $2,000 every couple of years on lawn tractors, when he can spend $7,000 and be done with it. In ten years the average homeowner has spent enough for a Lazer, and with little hours on it by commercial, it will still be going strong. That is why Exmark is advertising to homeowners, because a lot of homeowners are buying them already.

Envy Lawn Service
04-16-2005, 03:01 PM
Oh yeah, I wouldn't be afraid to say that they currently make up over 50% of total sales.

I have no problem with that.
It's the advertisement and encouragement to buy.

...that sorta stings a little, and you can bet your last buck that this eventually effects the service we get from these compaies.

Richard Martin
04-16-2005, 04:22 PM
I have no problem with that.
It's the advertisement and encouragement to buy.

...that sorta stings a little,

Really? Do you have any idea of why Exmark is in business? In case you don't know it's to make money. The bottom line is they don't really care where the money comes from just so long as it keeps increasing profits. Remember, they are owned by Toro. A lot of people here whined and cried when Exmark pulled the plug on their forum. The "word" was that Terrry was no longer with Exmark and there was no one else to do the job. B.S. Terry may no longer be with Exmark but that's not the reason they don't moderate it any more. In all likelyhood (Note to moderators, I don't know this for sure, it is pure speculation) it came down to paying someone to moderate their forum or paying for spots (ads). I guess the spots pay off better. Lawnsite is a great place to advertise but the truth is that Exmark can touch more potential customers other ways.

scout_pete
04-17-2005, 02:33 PM
Urban flight and rural land use changes away from ag toward "McMansion" estate developments has created a fair sized consumer market for larger commercial grade machines. For an extra thousand, or two, a consumer can have the quality and reliability you pros are used to.

I have about 5 acres to cut and there isn't a consumer-grade machine out there that would be a good investment for me or anybody cutting more than 3 acres. I know--I burned up a top end consumer machine within two years of mowing and snow plowing.

In my area, fescue is the turf of choice for larger properties and it needs to be cut every four days throughout the growing season unless a summer dry spell kicks in heat dormancy. If I didn't have the time to take care of it myself, I would need to go commercial. Becasue I can find 2 1/2 hours every four or five days, a $10,000+ machine and attachments is still a good investment when compared to the cost of commercial services.

There's the target market of Toro's Exmark division. :waving:

aclassic
04-17-2005, 03:43 PM
exmark isnt looking for the sensible consumer, they are looking for the H2/Excusion owner who thinks they need it. my dad bought one 12 yrs ago for our 5 acre wooded property, it was the most expensive vehicle he'd aver bought but we needed it (still use it today) but this isnt who they're targeting (i feel). if someone will buy something as rediculous as a hummer then they'll also buy a ztr for their 1 acre lot.

EC-Rider
04-18-2005, 11:48 AM
Have you guys seen the new exmark commercial trying to sell pro equipment to homeowners. I don't like it I understand wanting to make more profit but this seems wrong to me for some reason.What are your opinions.

I don’t think that’s a good idea…I know a lot of homeowners who have ponds, lake and canal ditches, some with slopes and no guard rails. :nono:

Moreover, these people are now using JD homeowner tractors or Murray with front steering…but once they start slipping and sliding with those ZTR’s…Things could get dicey! LOL!

It’s all good, enjoy, peace! :angel:

Regards,

EC-Rider

Bayrat
04-19-2005, 10:15 PM
I mow three acres and just bought the Gravely 260Z. In addition, I have a Kubota with a loader and 72" deck, but it is just too much of a pain to remove that thing every time I have heavy work to do.

By the way, I quit buying non-commercial equipment in the 70's after owning a couple of Dynamarks, talk about throwing money away. My father still mowed with the same Cub LowBoy he bought new in the late 50's. He could not longer push in the clutch so he traded it for a new Wheel Horse hydro. I sold it for my mom when he passed a couple of years ago and . Lost more on that than the 50 year old commercial Cub. I still use my 1977 Lawnboy for trimming, another commercial mower that more than paid for itself. Now what really makes sense?

scout_pete
04-19-2005, 11:42 PM
Ah'yep...here's my personal lawnmower. Still tweaking my 1978 Gravely 8183-T as a rider back-up

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/pete2210/jd_4110/turfco4110.jpg

Cleanmaxx Brian
04-20-2005, 01:35 AM
Soupy said "The homeowner doesn't look at it like that. They compare the monthly payment against the monthly cost of lawn care. A guy paying $90 a week for a 1 1/2 hour cut might be willing to buy one of these. For 6 hours a month he gets a mower that will last a life time and bragging rights to his neighbors that he owns the same mower that their lawn care uses.

If you figure that the mower will last long past the time the mower payments have stopped. It really doesn't sound to bad to the homeowner. He can throw a Blower and trimmer in for little extra monthly payment too. An ambitious man would have fun cutting his lawn every week and 1 1/2 hours is no different then the homeowner that uses a 21" push mower on a 1/2 acre.

I'm not saying I like the Idea, but I am seeing more and more Homeowners with 1/4 - 1/2 acre lots owning a commercial walk-behind."
**********************

Yup...home owner here with a realitivly small yard (133ft x 121 with a ranch house, 15x25 garage with a double wide driveway, 10x18 shed and a 20x20 patio) and I just bought a low end commercial 32 inch mower. I figured that paying 35 a week, it would not take long to cover the price of my investment! Plus I figure with 30-45 minutes of use a week for 7 months should make this machine last forever! Being bigger than the 21" that I used to use before hiring it done, allows this new machine to finish in 1/2 the time so now I can handle it! I already had a blowerand a gas edger so I was all set. I just canceled my deal with the local lawn professional.

Smalltimer1
04-20-2005, 01:57 AM
Ah'yep...here's my personal lawnmower. Still tweaking my 1978 Gravely 8183-T as a rider back-up

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/pete2210/jd_4110/turfco4110.jpg

That is exactly the setup I want..... :blob3: