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mtdman
04-26-2005, 01:00 AM
In my search for alternatives to top dressing, and a source for some kind of pelletized compost, I have come across a supplier of granualized poultry manure compost. Any thoughts/info on this? I've never heard of it, although the supplier says it's good stuff.

Thanks

pema
04-26-2005, 09:37 AM
I've been using a product from Ag-Renu. It is a combination of poultry manure and compost. Sterilized to eliminate weed seeds, etc. Makes an excellent top dressing following aeration and I use it for 1 round of treatments.

Had excellent results in hard clay soils in new sub divisions.

LonniesLawns
04-26-2005, 10:11 AM
Can you share your pricing for ag-renu?

nocutting
04-26-2005, 12:10 PM
"Great Stuff"- Perdue [ the chicken folks ] and tyson both now make chick doo [ poultry litter]avalible on the open market. Perdue to Ag/ Greens industry & Tyson has a retail line.....I got a trailer delivered to NY, 2 seasons ago, it came out to about $5 bucks a bag [ 50 lbs ]....No it wasnt all for me [ I did a co-op ] buy with a few guys in my area? :waving:

mtdman
04-26-2005, 12:23 PM
I've been using a product from Ag-Renu. It is a combination of poultry manure and compost. Sterilized to eliminate weed seeds, etc. Makes an excellent top dressing following aeration and I use it for 1 round of treatments.

Had excellent results in hard clay soils in new sub divisions.

I'm not sure if that's what this is, but it's along the same lines. And that's exactly what I'm interested in using it for. What kind of price do you pay for it, and what do you charge for the top dressing?

Thanks!

NattyLawn
04-26-2005, 05:17 PM
MTD,

Is compost tea an option?

nocutting
04-26-2005, 10:43 PM
Hi, regarding priceing, I like to double my materials and than charge for labour.I almost always charge a flat rate for all services so that i'm not obligated to being there any longer than needed.Once you figure your hourly rate $40-60 per man hr, add 10-20% for error, and if alot of materials are needed add a pick-up or delivery charge. You know those materials just dont show up on there own to the job. :)

mtdman
04-26-2005, 11:25 PM
MTD,

Is compost tea an option?

I haven't really looked into it. I was looking for spreadable materials.

nocutting, this stuff is about $10 for a 50lb bag and it's supposed to cover 5000 sq ft. Just wondering if that was competitive. Even if I do double up and put the stuff on thick, that's $20 for materials, and what, maybe a half hour to spread, if that? My cost $40, I can charge at least $80 to double up.

Is there any dangers of using this stuff, anyone know? I assume nothing more than using cow manure.

googleplex
04-27-2005, 08:55 AM
a 50lb bag and it's supposed to cover 5000 sq ft.

That sounds like an application rate for fertilizer.
I try to top-dress at 1 cubic yard per 1000 sq.ft. That's about 1/3 " 10 pounds per 1000 sq.ft. isn't much of a top-dressing.

nocutting
04-27-2005, 11:45 AM
Hi, $10.00 a bag is a good price [ my Lesco sells "sustain" for $20] use it at the fert. application rate or alittle higher if you want? Think of it like a pellitized peat moss, but with a slow release N-P-K. As with any fertilizer, dont apply more than 1 lb of N,[ all fertilizer can have a burn potential]...I use this all the time when I slit seed....Food for thought,.....Dont look at the priceing compared to any mowing practices [ It kills me to see how little you guys make on those services, considering all the equipment you need to get that job done]....For a nice job like that I'd hope to be gettin up to $125, with this you're being paid for your expertise as well. "Good Luck" payup

mtdman
04-27-2005, 09:58 PM
That sounds like an application rate for fertilizer.
I try to top-dress at 1 cubic yard per 1000 sq.ft. That's about 1/3 " 10 pounds per 1000 sq.ft. isn't much of a top-dressing.


I'm not sure this is the same as top dressing with a soil compost. Somewhere in between fertilizer and top dressing, I think.

WhohasHelios?
04-28-2005, 12:09 AM
Is there a website for these products...and does anyone know if they are available in Canada?

I have been looking for granular/pelletized chicken emulsion for some time now with no luck.

-Reuben

nocutting
04-28-2005, 07:38 AM
Hi Ruben, heres a # for "Perdue Farms" 1 888 268 2988, Tom Fergurson is the man to talk to, There operation is down in Maryland,USA......regarding your search, dont use "emulsion", look for "Poultry litter" or "Chicken Fertilizer", you know Canada is very progressive, I just got a media pk for a residential dressing machine, made right up there. Made by a company called R & R, this is far better than any golf course machine I've ever seen...."Good Luck"...PS...let me know if you find a source in your area, sometimes I do work outa MI, near Port Huron- regards Saxon :)

googleplex
04-28-2005, 09:50 AM
I'm not sure this is the same as top dressing with a soil compost. Somewhere in between fertilizer and top dressing, I think.

MTD,
10 lbs per 1000 is the application rate for pelletized compost used as a fertilizer. Check out Organic Approach - they recommend 10 to 20 lbs. per 1000.

Using 10 lbs. per 1000 is not enough as top-dressing. If I was your customer, I'd be REALLY pissed at getting 10 lbs per 1000 as a 'top-dressing' . Look into using finished compost. I can get it in bulk at $9-20 per cubic yard.

mtdman
04-28-2005, 11:08 PM
I'm not selling it as top dressing. I'm not sure I'm going to do anything with it at all, at this point I'm exploring my options and experimenting. All I know is the recommendation from the supplier is 50lbs per 5000 sq ft. I'm not sure I'd want 1/3 of an inch of chicken **** spread over my lawn for any reason.

The reason I'm not using compost is because of a lack of delivery method for the compost. I am doing mostly residential lawns, which require a smaller machine to top dress. The cheapest machine available goes for $3500, and looks to me like it will require constant refilling. The alternative is spreading by hand, which will also be cost and labor prohibitive. I am exploring alternatives to doing top dressing. Many of my aeration customers are people with crappy clay soil that want to improve the soil conditions, but not at astronomical costs.

Thank you for your input though.

desertmtn
05-10-2005, 05:34 PM
In response to your inquiry about poultry manures,keep in mind that manures are the "end" product (literally) of the animal. Chickens and cows all drop their "stuff" in the same general area, and even if you "sterilize" it or homogenize it, you'll negate the beneficials as well as the pathogens. It all starts with the SOIL. Until a healthy, thriving food web is established, we'll all be looking for the magic bullet. Full, effective inoculation of the site is the 1st step toward a sustainable environment. The real trick, after that is to provide the "life" in your soils with a protein source that balances both essential amino's and non essential aminos to provide carbohydrates and calories to keep the populations thriving and building soil structure, so your Lawn or garden thrives instead of survives.Humus build up is the key to negate all the "symptoms" we try to thwart. Treat the cause and your life will be alot simpler

muddstopper
05-22-2005, 12:10 AM
There was an article in Progressive Farmer, I think , that mentioned someone in NC that had an abundance of Chicken Manure. He mixed it with other materials, I believe it was wood mulch and created a chicken manure compost. he sold this compost to farmers to put on their fields. Things worked great for the first few years and then yeilds started dropping off. Come to find out the chicken manure compost was causing a sodium build up in the soil. Just something for you to think about. I dont remember the full content of the article but do remember the part about chicken doo and sodium.

hunter
04-17-2008, 06:29 PM
Never use any form of chicken or bird manure for an organic solution. In humans, dogs and cats ( I care less about the cats) it causes a lung fungus called Histoplasmosis. It causes a fiber tissue to spread in the lungs.

I'm speaking from experience with this disease in my dog now. I don't know how he came down with this stuff. But he and I have hunted from Missouri to Florida and could have caught it any of these states.

Here is a short description:

Histoplasmosis is a chronic, noncontagious, disseminated, granulomatous disease of humans and other animals caused by the dimorphic fungus Histoplasma capsulatum . The organism is commonly found in soil that contains bird and bat manure. It produces mycelial growth in the soil and in culture at room temperature and grows in a yeast form in tissues and in cultures at 37°C.

Histoplasmosis is found worldwide. Endemic areas in the USA include the Mississippi and Ohio River valleys. Infection has been described in many animal species, but disease is uncommon to rare in all but dogs and cats. Infection is commonly via aerosol contamination of the respiratory tract, and the lungs and thoracic lymph nodes are the sites of primary infection, although the GI tract may be a primary site of infection, especially in dogs. The organisms enter the bloodstream from a primary focus and become disseminated throughout the body; they may localize in bone marrow or the eyes where they produce chorioretinitis or endophthalmitis.

heres the link to read more http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp?cfile=htm/bc/51108.htm

treegal1
04-18-2008, 12:51 AM
alriteee , chicken poo or chi po, the warning here will read danger for beginners,,, this is not a joke. hunter has pointed out the most dangerous manures rite after cow. the pellets that are bag-ed tyson.. and so on are heat treated and some times IR sterilized!!!!! no pathogens...for the diy types, your going to get your self killed, again danger!
do not ever yes i said never handle chi po without a license and proper training. it is also the hardest and most intensive to compost, its pure N .most of the time it is liquid and smells real bad!

as far as the bag-ed stuff call and ask about pathogens and how they handle it, then make a big order and be happy:waving:

and also no one here would run there mower without a air cleaner, always wear your air cleaner when using ferts or sprayes even organics, you know its SH*T?

treegal1
04-18-2008, 01:00 AM
Is histoplasmosis treatable?

Yes. Antifungal medications are used to treat severe cases of acute histoplasmosis and all cases of chronic and disseminated disease. Mild disease usually resolves without treatment. Past infection results in partial protection against ill effects if reinfected.

hunter
04-18-2008, 08:30 AM
It is treatable. But when you catch as late as we did there is not much hope. But we are treating.

jeffinsgf
04-18-2008, 09:01 AM
I don't want to disregard the dangers of handling raw chicken manure, but to get this thread back on track...

I used this product: http://www.healthygro.com/productinfo.php (the 8-3-8 blend) last summer with great success. It is a very cost effective FERTILIZER. It is not topdressing material nor does its application negate the need for incorporating organic matter into the soil. The OP needs to get a grip on the concept of what topdressing is. If you start offering an organically derived fertilizer as an alternative to topdressing, you're no better than ChemLawn. Yes, topdressing is either equipment intensive or labor intensive...take your pick. Yes, it is expensive and hard to sell. Either understand the subject, learn the selling points and get equipped, or sell fertilizer as fertilizer and nothing more.

NattyLawn
04-18-2008, 09:04 PM
I don't want to disregard the dangers of handling raw chicken manure, but to get this thread back on track...

I used this product: http://www.healthygro.com/productinfo.php (the 8-3-8 blend) last summer with great success. It is a very cost effective FERTILIZER. It is not topdressing material nor does its application negate the need for incorporating organic matter into the soil. The OP needs to get a grip on the concept of what topdressing is. If you start offering an organically derived fertilizer as an alternative to topdressing, you're no better than ChemLawn. Yes, topdressing is either equipment intensive or labor intensive...take your pick. Yes, it is expensive and hard to sell. Either understand the subject, learn the selling points and get equipped, or sell fertilizer as fertilizer and nothing more.

This thread is over 3 years old! I think those of us using poultry manure based products are using ones that are properly composted.

greenguy08
04-26-2008, 07:10 PM
It sounds like you might be talking about a particular pruduct that I use regularly- it contains composted poultry manure, kelp, and granular humate from leonardite ore. I use this product for pretty much everything, as it comes in different npk formulations. The basic product is 3-3-3, but it comes in higher n and also higher K, with specific formulations for lawns also. If this is the same thing that you're inquiring about, then I can say I endorse it strongly.

hunter
04-28-2008, 07:57 AM
Until it is proving that any products with any bird manure or bat guano will not cause Histoplasmosis I will not use.

After having this in one animal I will not take the risk with someone else's.

greenguy08
04-28-2008, 10:31 AM
I hope your dog gets better soon, Hunter. I appreciate your caution and concern after your experience with histoplasmosis. I share equal concerns about bone meal. As far as the granulated poultry manure product, A controlled thermophyllic composting process has been shown to eliminate pathogens (how to be sure that procedure was correctly followed is a different topic). For me personally, from what I've learned about histoplasmosis, I just take basic precautions to avoid breathing dust from the product when applying it.