how do you price jobs?

[danlawnser]

What do you charge per hour? Should I price on the job or by hour? It was a mulching job. It took me about 9 hours to mulch and trim bushes? I had to wheelbarrel a lot of it. It was 15 scoops(Ford bucket tractor) of mulch. I cannot work as fast as you guys because I don't have the same equipment and knowledge. I am only 15. thanks for the feed back.
tools used were: a landscape wheelbarrel, big pitch fork, and a 4 by 8 trailer

[motor86]

I would charge $100 for that. If they question you on price, say...

$8.00 an hour my labor = $72
I had to pay my uncle $30 for use of his trailer.

That is $102, but $100 is fine.
Remember to say please when you ask them for the money. Thank you's go a long way. Always say thanks whenever you recieve money for a service.

[MIDSOUTH]

8.00 bucks an hour- man go to walmart and work in the air conditioner.

I wouldn't take under 35.00 per hour for anything I do, wheelbarring is manual labor. Though if you felt it should have took you a considerable amount less time, then factor that in your final price-3.0 man hours = 105.00. If it is 9.0 man hours = 315.00. You should have gave the customer a basis on how you would charge before you started the job if you think 315.00 is going to make their eyes pop out. If you think it should have only took you 3 hours, charge 105.00. good luck on your decision.

[JimLewis]

I agree with MIDSOUTH, except that this guy's only 15. I am sorry, but I can't see most people paying a 15 year old $35 an hour. But I agree that $8 is a little cheap. If I were 15, I'd rather go work at Safeway with cute chicks and air conditioning if I just wanted to make $8 an hour. So maybe somewhere in between. I know when I was just starting out at age 25 I was happy to be making $18 an hour. That was 50% more than I'd ever made at any other job. If I were 15, just starting out, I guess I'd want to make $12 an hour. Yah, I'd be pretty dang happy with that. If I could get more, sure.

[moonarrow]

I agree with JIM and Midsouth, 8 is to cheap, if you are doing a professional job and you put on the appearance of a true company, and just a kid trying to make a few bucks then act like it and charge more because that is what it takes to be a company, If you don't charge more and make a profit, then how will you ever grow and purchase new equipment.

[jrblawncare]

I'am with everyone else here...DON'T GIVE YOUR SERVICES AWAY....For you 10 to 15 an hour would great or the Safeway idea with cute chicks works too!GOOD LUCK,JRB...............If you are going to charge 10 to 15 an hour..Don't drag your feet and work along at a good pace.

[Edited by jrblawncare on 02-17-2001 at 05:08 AM]

[lawrence stone]

The part I find hard to believe is that some people with actually hire CHILDREN as landscape contractors.

A child (anyone under 18) has no insurance, cannot sign a contract, and since they have no workman’s comp insurance the homeowner will be libel if the child gets hurt and will have to cover any property damage.

I feel we are doing these children and ourselves great disservice by offering encouragement to work in the green industry.

The encouragement we should offer is for these children to go on to college instead of becoming a "lawnboy" which do to their lack of education they will be on the lowest rung of the economic and social ladder their entire lifetime.

[Dillon]

Sorry that Stone feels that lawn guys are on the lowest rung of the economic and social ladder. I think it's great that this kid is out working and trying to make something out of himself. He could be out causing trouble but instead he decided to do something to make himself and his life better and who's to say that this kid is not an "A" student. He's on here trying to learn and seems to be well spoken. I give him tons of credit for being this ambitious and wanting to make something out of himself. We need more kids like this.I have heard so many people say these kids today don't have a good work ethic, so when we find one that does we should encourage him not discuorage him and maybe he will make something out of himself and not become one of the boys in the hood. I think its great what you are doing Danalawnser keep up the great work and always skip past the people that are negitive about what you are doing, they are usually just jealous that weren't smart enough to do what you are doing when they were your age. That's just my opinion but I could be wrong. NOT

[danlawnser]

thanks dillon. I plan on staying in this business a long time.

[jrblawncare]

STONE,And YOU never pushed a 21" before you were 18 for a neighbor for 10 bucks?

[Island Lawn]

$15hr minimum! Be sure to increase the rate as your experience and knowledge increase!
I think most members on this forum would not do it for less than $35hr.

The good customers seem to understand that this kind of work is worth double than the slow ass, brain dead corporate drone @ the local air conditioned superstore that cant answer questions or find products.

But you will probably not get it if you dont ask for it!

If they look at you like you're a krazy kid, then you can explain to them how you are in this for the long term and need to make $ for running a business, not just spending$!

If they don't jump on the offer, then just thank them for their time, hand them a card, tell them there is no pressure, they can think about it, shop around, and call you later if they decide they want a reliable, professional service @ rock bottom start-up price. Then forget about them and move on.

This is just my opinion.
As w/ any business decision, think it through.
In the end the decision, and it's consequence, is yours!

Stone seems to be VERY consistent w/ his attitude, BUT most of the time he has good info backed w/ lots of experience.
I think this time he may have lapsed! LOL
I'm currently paying a $30,000.00 student loan for a degree I don't use (B.S. in Phys Ed)(emphasis on BS!!!)

You're at the right place for education here @ LS! Be sure to read the ancient posts and click on every link that members give. My "favorites" list is LOADED w/ nothing more than these links!

Good Luck and keep us updated!

[npalomba]

If I have to push I try to get up to $30 an hour; that's why I try not to take customers that have a lot of pushing needed; 8 is way to cheap but I don't know your market, check around with other local contractors to see what they get.

[lakegastonla]

I have to admit it, folks, but Stone is dead on the money! This kid is only fifteen years old and is at the age where his decisions for the next few years will shape who he is for the rest of his life.
Any kid fifteen years old whose highest aspirations are to cut grass for a living,is just taking the easy way out. Don't be a slacker! Move your butt closer to the front of the room, pay attention, and make some decent grades, for pete's sake! GO TO COLLEGE! If you are truly drawn to this field of work, then major in golf course managment or a related field in college. THAT would prove to everyone that you are dedicated to this type of career! Just planning on jumping in to it with no education is a sure plan for FAILURE!
I love this web site, and you guys usually give good advice, but this time you missed the mark. Face the facts, guys none of us really planned for this as a lifelong vocation. MOST of us ended up here because our education limits our options in the workplace. We try to make the best of it, but facts be facts! :)
By the way, JRB would be much better off working for someone else in the lawnbiz rather than trying to run a business at 15. Last thing a teen needs is the IRS beating him down for not keeping proper records, and back taxes!
He also said that he plans to be in this business "for a long time." Yeah, well when I was 15, I had a girlfriend and we were crazy for each other. As a matter of fact, we were going to be together "forever". Yeah right! Things change DAILY when you're that age.
STAY IN SCHOOL, DUDE!

[danlawnser]

guys don't get me wrong I plan on getting a 4 year degree in business and/or landscape architecture.

[npalomba]

Well Dan you have a good school in NC State; I used to do business down there and the professors there were great to chat with.

[Dillon]

It's ashame that some of you think this business is a last resort and that a life long commitment to it will get you nowhere, I could only wish that I would have been smart enough and ambitious enough to start this when I was 15. I know this is a great business and for those willing to work hard and stick to it the rewards will be great and many. Maybe you guys who think this kid is so stupid should look in the mirror and wonder why it took you so long to get here. Maybe you guys don't make money at this, I don't know, but I do and I am far from being at the bottom.
Danny don't worry about the neg. people there is always going to be them out there, they will not make a difference in your life. The power of POSITIVE THINKING will help get you where you won't to go. So blow off the neg. people keep your head up, always learn from your mistakes and Im sure that you you will do 10 times better than any of these guys could ever do in there wildest dreams. You have a much better start obviously then did any of those guys.

[65hoss]

Did you have to get the mulch, bring it back, use your trailer and equipment? Or was is supplied by the homeowner and just your services? If it was your equipment and you handled everything then you should have be getting the going rate! If you only supplied labor then probably $10 sounds right. Most of us got started as kids doing some of this type work and later made it a career. Keep it up.

[Currier]

danlawnser, Congratulations you have hopefully a long life ahead of you! Do you think this lawn and landscape biz might be something you would want to pursue as a career/self owned business. Or is this mainly just a "do some stuff for the neighbors to get some money for the time being." Please understand either way is fine. If you are just looking for short time cash...probably you don't need to worry about getting much $$.If you want to make a go of this as a real business sit down and think about where you would like your business to go (3 years, 5years...).Set a goal. Figure out some steps to reach it. Then work towards it. This would help you to decide what you need to charge in order to be working toward your goals.

Read tons of Lawnsite and start researching what all is involved in a business plan.

[danlawnser]

The main reason I'm in it is because I enjoy it a lot? I know the money can be good but you shouldn't be in the buz if you don't like it. It may show in your work. Please tell me if I'm wrong. I'm doing good in school and I want to be able to do what I enjoy.
First I did start with a 22 inch Lowes mower, then a 28 inch Snapper. I now run a Sabre(cheap Deere)to pull my 4 by 8 trailer which consists Stihl blower, Stihl weedeater, 2000 Toro personal pace(21 alum. deck), and a brand new 48 inch Great Dane Scamper walkbehind with sulky. I pull it around in the neighborhood. I don't want to be mowing the rest of my life. I think I want to get into landscaping after college when I know what to do. N.C State I think is the only college in N.C. offering landscape architecture.

[VLM]

Hey Stone how do you live with yourself if you believe you are on the "lowest rung of the social and econimic ladder"? Wow! Why not just end it all now man? And what about those of us who did go to college and got a degree and worked in an office for 5 yrs and hated every minute of it except when we were doing our lawn business after hours? Are we on the lowest rung too?

I'm a well respected member of my community who runs a successful business and contributes to the economy.

Lakegastonla, you may be right that most of us did not dream of going into the lawn business when we were young but I know guys who did, and they have thriving businesses now. What is wrong with a youngster dreaming of owning his own business? I dreamt of owning my own business as a kid, that's why I majored in business mgmt in college. Just because you harbor negative stereotypes about the industry doesn't mean they're true. As for taking golf course mgmt., your confusing the issue. If you get a degree in that and work for a course you are not in business for yourself! Totally different. He is better off studying business mgmt.

[Dillon]

I agree 100%

[thelawnguy]

man, you folks should read the whole post before sounding off. I believe he was referring to a lawn boy as the lowest rung, i.e. scrub with a 21 inch murray in the back of the cutlass. Big difference from a lawn boy to a turf manager/grounds care specialist.

[lakegastonla]

Dillon, you don't know jack, so don't come around here with that mess. I never said I don't make money at landscaping or that I don't enjoy it. Mr smarty pants, I happen to have a regular job that pays me over 50 large a year, but I hate it. I started this lawn and landscape biz 2 years ago as an attempt to get out of the paper industry. I do most of the work myself. When I am at work, I have a helper who gets it done. I am also not at the bottom, and I have a rig that would probably make more than a few people envious around here. But, that is NOT THE POINT!
The point that I was trying to make is that now more than ever, an EDUCATION is the most important thing a young person should be concerned with. If you disagree with that, then you have some issues bud!! As it turns out, the young man IS going to attend NC STATE! (good choice, and congrats!) If you do not agree that a formal education in ones field will help, then I feel sorry for you. As far as the AMWAY speech you gave about a positive attitude "carrying you through" I have to say, yeah, whatever! I know plenty of positive people who are dirt poor almost starving to death. I prefer facing reality rather than putting my faith in a shiny-bubbly pipe dream.
Kind of like that scissors/paper/rock game..........education trumps attitude. have a nice day...somewhere else.

And to answer VLM's post,nothing is wrong with a youngster wanting his/her own business....as long as they get an education first.
And by the way, thank you SO much for helping me make my point!! You went to school and got a business degree! I am sure that it has been VERY useful, too. I will bet that your business is probably doing very well as a result of that college degree! That's all I menat! And finally, I don't think I have negative stereotypes of this industry. I try to be positive as much as possible. If you want to see negative stereotypes of this industry, watch the movie "Drowning Mona." The movie sucked, so maybe less than 10 people saw it even though Bette Midler was in it. They made landscapers look like backwoods idiots!

[lakegastonla]

Hey DILLON, WHO MOVED YOUR CHEESE?

[VLM]

Actually, I saw Drowning Mona last week. I thought it was pretty funny.

[lakegastonla]

The movie painted quite a picture as far as landscapers go, huh?

[Dillon]

Lakegostonia, If you could actually read and understand a post you would know that I never said that an education wasn't important and at no time did Danny say that he wasn't going to school you just ass-umed that he wasn't. Alot of good your education did you, your here trying to learn just like him. As far as income goes sounds like you have some work to do to catch up to us uneducated big dogs.
Talk to me some more when you have an actual business to run and not some after work sideline

[Fantasy Lawns]

$30 an hour/per man on side work ....20-25 for lawn maintence

[pcs]

lakegastonla, I do now if I agree with what you say about getting an education. I agree finish High School. But I don't agree with it being the most concerned part of my life. I feel if you are young and can be sucessful in any business without furthering your education, than more power to you!

[teamII]

dan,
try to always at least triple your money on these jobs by this i mean if the mulch cost you 100 charge the customer 300. this is for you since your young and just starting out. you will not be able to chage what i charge (or they would have got me or another of our big lawn care friends) if this was me i would charge 60.00/ yard for the mulch and paid one of my friends 8.00 bucks per hour to wheelbarrow the mulch for me while i did the easy part...it pays to be the boss.

[Dillon]

lakegosonla, It seems that you have knowledge about Amway obviously must of been like paper industry to you. Keep trying some day maybe you will find something that suits you.

[jrblawncare]

Boy...did this thing get out of hand, all because a young man wanted to make a little cash doing some yard work,sorry about that Dan.Yes,we all know education is important and it sounds like you know that.If I had to do things over again I surly would have done things differently.You see, at the age of 18 {right out of high school}I was hirerd at Eastman Kodak...after 19 years I was downsized.I have been doing Landscaping/lawn care part time since '87 so at least I have something to fall back on,many did not.Just be happy at what you do, and do it well.I'am happier now with my job than I ever have been!Good Luck,John...[my folks are over in Statesville nice country down there]

[RNH]

Danny I think what your doing is great, I was 30 years old before I finally found out what I wanted to do with my life, and now all I do is dream of building my business and providing my wife and children the best life I can. It sounds to me like your on your way to a great career, You've already got off to a better start than most of us.
You know where your headed, and where you want to be in the future. Going to collage is the right thing to do.

Good Job...

[cantoo]

Danny, learn to price jobs by the job not by the hour. This way it doesn't matter how long it takes you or what equipment you have the customer still pays the going rate. Then when you save up and get the proper equipment you will be making more money per hour and will not have to train your customers to your pricing. If you price by the hour now and it takes you 5 hours to do a job then whenever you buy a bigger faster mower and it only takes you one hour to do the job they will only want to pay you the $8 hour.
Therefore the faster you work the more you get paid always.

[ron]

Please can anyone help me I need to find a pic for my ms Word I made a flyier and need to add a lawn clip of something hope fully a man mowing etc please help meeeeee.

[thelawnguy]

"I feel if you are young and can be sucessful in any business without furthering your education, than more power to you!"

The problem here, is that by the time you figure out that this theory isnt going quite as planned, you are now middle age with a mortgage and kids to support so now you are in a rut with little hope of digging yourself out.

regardless of what career path one ultimately goes down, a well-rounded education will put you steps ahead of the next guy, and not pigeon-hole you into a niche that you have no hope of escaping.

[BryanB]

I am only 17 years old and charge about $10/ hour. Just for you guys that hink that us kids cant do anything better I am also president of NHS and top 10% of my class. I have he responsibility and drive to do the work so why shoulnt people pay me just like they pay you. Its good experience to get out and work for what you have.

[Dillon]

Keep up the good work!

[Bob Shoaff]

I just wanted to apply to this lowest rung thing. I have a 4 year degree in Environmental Safety and Health. I worked for Weyerhaeuser and just left. I made good money at Weyerhaeuser but working for a big corpoartion sucks. I can develop new programs, bust my butt and I get my regular salary and a pat on the back if I am lucky while the President gets 1 million dollar bonuses. Being in my own business I can make as much or as little as I want and it is all driven on how much I work and the quality of work I do. I am also going to double my Salary in just this first full-time year.
Now on the kid issue. My oldest son is 13 and has worked along side me for a few years now. He is the best helper I have, he does quality work, can suggest plants for certain areas and can sweet talk a customer like no sales man I could ever find. He has a gift for landscaping and plans on moving into this as his career. He does however plan on going to UW and getting his degree in Landscape Architecture. He wants to do this so he can be my boss! We still need to discuss that one.
OK now back to the lowest rung thing again. I have a few millionaire customers, pshycolgists, a couple of bio-chemists and big shot doctors. When we get together and talk they treat me with the same respect I treat them with. They do not belittle me because I keep up their yard. Now maybe it's because I can hold a good conversation with them and let them stand on their soap box every once in awhile when they have a new success but I don't mind. I would never change what I am doing nor will I ever regret leaving corporate america to do my own thing. I get so much more satisfaction in running and growing my own business. There is nothing that can replace the feeling this gives me.
Bob

[jrblawncare]

BOB,you said it all....The sad part is we did not do it sooner.Good Luck,John

[JimLewis]

I am with VLM. I too got an office job right after spending 5 years at a great Universty. But mostly, they teach you how to get a job. I did that and, like VLM, hated every minute of it. I am not in this industry because of lack of education. I am in it because I figured out I could make more money in this business. In fact, some times I wish I would have skipped college and started my business when I was younger. My business would be twice as big.

And I disagree with that skipping college is a sure plan for failure. My wife makes more than almost all of my college friends. And she never stepped foot in a college room. My best friend is a painting contractor and went to college for a total of 5 days. He makes well over 200K a year and is extremely successful financially and in his personal life. Sure, I can quote him Shakespeare and I know the impact Lavoisier had on Chemistry. But the fact remains that he is still more financially successful today.

Don't get me wrong. I think an education is great. But I wouldn't go with the idea that it's the best way to get ahead in life. I think ambition, determination, the ability to deal well with people, and a good attitude are WAY more important in defining a man's success in all aspects of his life.

I am sure we can find exceptions on either end. But if there were a way to measure success (and not just monetarily) I'd lay my money on the people who had the four abilities I mentioned above over those with simply a college degree any day of the week.

I love education. And I am not saying don't go to college. It was a great experience and I leardned a lot about people. But I wouldn't say that if someone doesn't go they are destined to fail. That is simply not supported by fact.

[HOMER]

I'd like to add something here..............OK

Communication skills and the ability to charm the pants off of people are the folks that are gonna make it in this world, educated or not!

I've seen college grads that are absolutely the biggest ars holes and think because they have a degree the world owes them.............I wouldn't give them the time of day.

I've seen High School grads that have an uncanny ability to rally people around them and be great leaders. They also have the qualities that people seem to want....down to earth honesty! Some of the best salesman are the ones that know how to BS and believe me that didn't come from college. I know a guy that could sell a drowning man water, he has several businesses going on at the same time and I am so glad he isn't in this business in my area. He never went to college, got hired at my old place of employement by simply BS'ing his way in the door---did a good job of selling himself. Some people have a gift, others struggle to find it.

College never hurt anybody unless they didn't want to be there. If your a dreamer and have the attributes needed to operate your own business then your a threat to all the competition. If your college edumacated and carry yourself with a proud look then you won't make it in the South.

If I ever go to college it will be to take a public speaking course, after all the whole thing starts with words and body language......if you can't sell that you'll never get started.

First impressions are everlasting. Never been a truer statement!

Ya'll have a good day!

[1MajorTom]

Hey there Homer,

Just noticed something. You are the HEART OF...
What happened to the DIXIE?

Or are you changing your location to....

THE HEART OF LAWNSITE :)

[JimLewis]

Homer,

I gotta agree with ya 100%.

I spent many years in speech and communications courses. The courses on public speaking at colleges are decent but they aren't typically suited for what we do. They are more designed for speaking to crowds, etc.

If you really want to get an education on speaking to people one on one, save yourself the money and read (and re-read) "How to win friends and Influence People" by Carnegie, "Power and Confidence in dealing with people" by Giblin and "How I raised myself from failure to success in selling" by Betger. Those are the cream of the crop when it comes to dealing with customers and clients. I learned 10 times more from those books (especially How to win friends...) than I ever did in speaking courses.

I will say one thing though. The public speaking courses did do wonders for releiving anxiety when speaking to crowds. I competed in speech and debate for years and often spoke in front of huge crowds. But again, that didn't really help me in this business.

[TJLC]

Can't we all just get along.LOL I got into lawncare because it was offered to me. It's not the most glamorous job but it helps pay the bills. When we first moved to FLA I was making $6.00 per hour! I'm making 3 times that doing lawncare,so for now, it works for me. It does not take a rocket scientist to cut grass but it does take a certain amount of common sense to run a business.

[lawrence stone]

Bob wrote:

>Now on the kid issue. My oldest son is 13 and has worked along side me for a few years now

Real LCO's use real employees but if white slavery works for you I say go for it.

[lawrence stone]

Bryan wrote:

>I am only 17 years old and charge about $10/ hour. Just for you guys that hink that us kids cant do anything better I am also president of NHS and top 10% of my class.

Thanks for making my point that a child should not operate an illegal business.

Exactly where are the kids at the bottom 10% working?

At fast food joints making $8 per hour getting free meals and scholarship money for college while not have any expenses?

[Eric ELM]

Originally posted by BryanB
I am only 17 years old and charge about $10/ hour. Just for you guys that hink that us kids cant do anything better I am also president of NHS and top 10% of my class. I have he responsibility and drive to do the work so why shoulnt people pay me just like they pay you. Its good experience to get out and work for what you have.

If you want to get paid like us, you need to charge a lot more than $10 an hour. I'm sure you can mow at least 2 lawns an hour, so that is just $5 a lawn. That is WAY to low and you need to raise your prices by about 5 times.

You could make $10 an hour working for some lawn company and not have any expenses at all. It's time to raise your prices.

[Dillon]

Stone, you just don't like life do you. Everything that I have read that you have wrote since I have been a member has been NEGATIVE. Obviously there is alot of kids that work go to school and have great lives. Im sure that many of the members started as kids mowing the neighbors lawns and now today have thriving business's.As for illegal business, in my area kids can start working at 14 and even earlier if they are working for their family. It's not like these kids are out selling drugs.You should give credit where credit is due.Basicaly you sound like a grumpy old man that has nothing better to than find things to b*tch about.

[Eric ELM]

Originally posted by lawrence stone
Bryan wrote:

>I am only 17 years old and charge about $10/ hour. Just for you guys that hink that us kids cant do anything better I am also president of NHS and top 10% of my class.

Thanks for making my point that a child should not operate an illegal business.

Exactly where are the kids at the bottom 10% working?

At fast food joints making $8 per hour getting free meals and scholarship money for college while not have any expenses?


I feel Lawrence Stone is giving him good advice, not putting him down. He isn't saying a teenager can't work legally, I feel what he is saying is Bryan can't be working legally if he is charging $10 an hour. About 1/3 of this goes for taxes, 1/3 of this will go to insurance on the business insurance, he then has to have expenses for gas, repairs, ect. This leaves very little left for profit, approximately nothing. When you operate a lawn biz, your operating expenses are around $10 an hour, so this is why he mentioned he would be better off working at a fast food place for $8 an hour and getting free food. I feel this is good advice.

[Dillon]

Maybe he doesn't want to work for someone else like many of us here. Probably the reason that he is here is to learn so that he will charge the correct amounts and make the money he should. Instead of discouraging these young guys and telling them there better off doing something else,we should encourage them and tell them what they need to do to be more sucessful. Isn't that what this site is suposed to be about anyway.

[Green Finger]

Stone has good points.

I'm all for the little guy working. But one thing we must address and be careful of. It's called LIABILITY.

If he damage something like a sprinkler system or burst a pipe. He does't have insurance, so guess who pays for it. The PARENTS.

If a minor injures himself on the property with no workmans comp. Guess who pays for it? THE HOME OWNER.

True, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to start this business but what is the failure rate? How many chevy station wagon lowballers stay in this business after five years?(not directed to anyone.)

Jim also has great points. Good communication skills and being well rounded is great.

The source of those skills comes from a lot of factors like education, your upbringing, who you associate with, the type of activities you do while in school, church, or social activities.

What education does?
I'm not in the Landscaping industry because I was forced. I have a degree in business and Thank God, I have never had a problem with having a corp job. The true guys are not just in it for the money. We are in it because deep down in the inside there is a burning for business and no job can pay you what you think you are worth. FREEDOM.

That's why if you fail, you try, and try until you make it. Because you believe with all your heart that you were made to do this. It doesn't matter how you came to the industry. you just have to make it. (I'm rambling on)

But education gives you options in life. You never know about the industry.

I'm not saying that you shouldn't be in business, but take the time and learn the business. There is always going to be grass.

Take you time little brother, you're going to be fine.

[Eric ELM]

I agree that is what this forum is about. You are defending Bryan and I was defending Stone. I don't know that much about you or Bryan, but I have read Stone's posts for almost 2 years. He probably has the highest profit margin per man hour of any one man operators on this forum and he can give some great advice. I don't always agree with what he says, nor do I always agree with what other members say, but this is also what a forum is for.

I give Bryan a lot of credit for going out and having a business. I told him he needs to raise his price. Stone basically did the same thing, but in his way. You need to get to know the members before assuming they only write negative posts. Each member has different ways of expressing themselves.

None of us are journalists and some of us may have a crude way of posting, but we all are trying to help each other. This is the main point here.

I think we all have cabin fever and need to get out and mow some grass. :)

[1MajorTom]

Eric ELM: I think we all have cabin fever and need to get out and mow some grass.

You can say that again. :)


Here's the thing about forums. The more colorful the poster, the more lively the forum and fun it is to read.
If we all thought alike, We'd all be sheep. http://w1.511.telia.com/~u51102888/anims/animal3/sheep.gif

[mountain]

quote:
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Eric ELM: I think we all have cabin fever and need to get out and mow some grass.
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AMEN to that

[Bob Shoaff]

Ouch Stone. Real LCO's use real employees? I guarantee I am real and I also see nothing wrong with having my son work with me. I also have one other person now as well and I am sure as I continue to grow there will be many more real employees. I pay my son a decent wage so it is not white slavary. (how did you know I was white anyway?) What it is a a father, nurturing his son's growth along and paying him good money because he is worth it.

[lawrence stone]

Bob wrote:

>(how did you know I was white anyway?)

Hackers tools.

[kutnkru]

Im probably goona get kicked in the arse for this but heres my .03 for what its worth.

There have been good points made by all on both sides of the table. But I will be honest with you. I think that its kind of a kick in the pants when someone who is not out there FULL time expects to get paid what those of us who have turned that "rung" into a career do.

I guess its kind of like saying that just because you have purchased the fatigues to look the part or passed boot camp that you should be earning Generals wages instead of having to put in the time.

I think that the younger and ambitious ones need to remember that they are STILL the neighborhood kid, and should do all they can to learn from everyone else here as I continue to do so at 30. I think they should concentrate on quality instead of competing for market share.

And just for those who are wondering I have been mowing lawns since I was 11, worked for Garden Center Inc. while going to college, and have pursued this industry vigorously as well. I think I am justified 19 yrs later in saying that I dont agree with the younger entreprenuers not yet out of school making what some of us do.

Kris