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View Full Version : Another Perfect Property Patio Install


landscapingpoolguy
04-26-2005, 07:50 PM
Hey guys, well its good to be back in action. take a look at this install. First of the year. These pics are only up to the second day of the job.Its a Unilock Brusells patio with a seat wall with steps on either side. more to come. Take a look at the plans.

Chuck

landscapingpoolguy
04-26-2005, 07:54 PM
the plan wont upload oh well.

Freshcut Lawn Care
04-26-2005, 08:12 PM
Looks good so far! :cool:

Rex Mann
04-26-2005, 09:22 PM
Whats with the little wedge pieces in the radius? You should be cutting the full stones on the angle so you you will not have any small wedges. Small wedges give any project that much dreaded DIY homeowner look.

If you are not sure how to do it, let us know and we, the guys in this forum, will be able to walk you though it.

Peace,

Rex

LasVegasPavers.Com (http://lasvegaspavers.com)

landscapingpoolguy
04-27-2005, 09:12 AM
Relax REX I know how to cut a radius. The wedge pieces are something different that the customer likes. It gives it a more cobblestone/old style look. inside of the wall will be faced with the same look to give it a finished look all the way around. Obviously you missed the perfect radius and back cuts on the steps.

Chuck

sgallaher
04-27-2005, 06:26 PM
It does not look like you excavated out enough soil. In the last picture it looks like you are just putting an inch or two of crusher run on top of the soil. There should be about 6" of compacted crusher run on compacted sub soil. Just my view on the job. Every thing elso looks good. (I don't like the wedge pieces either).

NNJLandman
04-27-2005, 06:58 PM
Looks good so far Chuck, glad to see your back into the business, you do good work. Im guessing you found a few good guys to work for you this time around?

Jeff

cgland
04-27-2005, 07:07 PM
I don't see any geotextile separation fabric! :nono:

Chris

mdb landscaping
04-27-2005, 08:56 PM
you dont need geo grid for something that small. :)

landscapingpoolguy
04-27-2005, 09:50 PM
It does not look like you excavated out enough soil. In the last picture it looks like you are just putting an inch or two of crusher run on top of the soil. There should be about 6" of compacted crusher run on compacted sub soil. Just my view on the job. Every thing elso looks good. (I don't like the wedge pieces either).
The base goes from about 4" to 8 " in some spots(the steps) everything machine compacted. The second step in the third pic hasnt been backfilled and compacted yet in that pic. No geogrid is nesseccery. The wedges are to replicate the Roman pisa style, Its something different Ive never done but the customer likes it. Its a very tight radius 3.5' tuff to cut with full block and have it look right. I guess eveyone has there own opinion but just wait till we drop in the plantings that go infront of the seat wall. It will all tie in nicely. HEY JEFF CALL ME I CAN USE A "GOOD" EXTRA GUY IF YOUR INTERESTED.

Chuck

mbella
04-27-2005, 10:25 PM
you dont need geo grid for something that small. :)

Nobody mentioned geo grid. Chris mentioned geo separation fabric, which should be used on EVERY job. If you don't know the difference then you shouldn't be installing.

mbella
04-27-2005, 10:30 PM
It does not look like you excavated out enough soil. In the last picture it looks like you are just putting an inch or two of crusher run on top of the soil. There should be about 6" of compacted crusher run on compacted sub soil. Just my view on the job. Every thing elso looks good. (I don't like the wedge pieces either).

I agree, it doesn't appear as though you excavated enough. Chuck, in the last picture there is a row of what appears to be pavers. Are they pavers or caps or what? The soil appears to come to the bottom of them.

landscapingpoolguy
04-28-2005, 07:08 AM
Those are the second row of steps there is 9 3/4" of qp under them.Those blocks are 4" high and then they have 2 3/4" paver caps as the treads. When you back fill there is 6 3/4" inch of base.

Chuck

landscapingpoolguy
04-28-2005, 07:12 AM
Dont like to use the fabric. Unilock doesnt call for it anyways. Every one does something a little different.

cgland
04-28-2005, 08:26 PM
Do you like the fact that your stone will work it's way into the subsoil and cause settling? Do you not like that geotextile separation fabric, if installed properly, can be a nice insurance policy for settling? I guess people do things differently.....some do it right...and some don't!

Chris

P.S. My customers like when their patios are wavy and uneven, so that's the way I do it. :dizzy:

I26
04-28-2005, 08:55 PM
Call me stupid but what does "geotextile separation fabric" do?

mole
04-28-2005, 09:06 PM
why is everbody being so negitive on this guy. Looks good. If the homeownwer likes and you like who cares what theses guys say, they can't see it from there house.

mbella
04-28-2005, 09:31 PM
why is everbody being so negitive on this guy. Looks good. If the homeownwer likes and you like who cares what theses guys say, they can't see it from there house.

Mole, guys on here are trying to help, not be negative. Sometimes, the truth hurts. Chris from C&G mentioned geo separation fabric. That is installed under the base aggregate in order to prevent the base aggregate from migrating into voids in the subsoil. A professional installer ALWAYS uses it. If an installer doesn't use it, that raises a flag.

Most hardscape jobs look good, from the customer's house, upon completion. The trick is to make sure it looks good years after the installation. Unfortunately, many don't.

landscapingpoolguy
04-29-2005, 02:56 PM
Here are some more updated pics, of the patio everyone feels is built wrong.

cgland
04-29-2005, 09:38 PM
Are you setting the pavers right on the base??

Chris

mbella
04-29-2005, 09:49 PM
Chuck, what are you using for bedding material?

landscapingpoolguy
04-30-2005, 07:20 AM
No its on 1" stone dust

landscapingpoolguy
04-30-2005, 07:21 AM
Chuck, what are you using for bedding material?

QP and stone dust. Same as Ive built every patio for the last 5 years. If you look in the picture with the pavers installed you can see a color difference between the two materials. The pavers stop where the stone dust stops.

landscapingpoolguy
04-30-2005, 07:32 AM
http://www.unilock.com/InstallationInstructions.asp?Category=1&ID=1

To all of you that tell me im installing incorrectly here are the installtion instructions from UNILOCK. NO fabrics needed. My base is perfect. I use the specs from the manufacturer. Do something different from what they require and if you have a problem down the road they can opt to not warratty something. But What do I know. I only get $20.00 a sqft to install these patios cause everyone I build falls apart and I have all bad references.

Chuck

aries
04-30-2005, 09:15 AM
Look's good to me chuck! I wouldn't listen to what everyone say's you did not ask for help, you just posted pic's Good job!

Joe

mbella
04-30-2005, 09:54 AM
Chuck, maybe you should take another look at the specs you provided. They specifically spec coarse concrete sand, not stone dust. That would be a pretty good reason for them not to honor a warranty. Even though they don't mention the use of fabric, I doubt using it would effect the warranty.

sheshovel
04-30-2005, 01:59 PM
AND it's OK to critique jobs here that's why the pro's here get on to help if they think neccesary right?? Well other than the above mentioned I look at it and say hell-of-a nice job,good work,and not an easy installation I am sure,your doing great.
Now my advice to you is that you listen and learn and expect to have your jobs questioned if your gonna post pics of them.
It is only natural for craftsmen to compare their work with others and ask questions and have a dialog about the work.I mean it is their life blood,and they are proud of acomplisments and aquired knowlage.This includes you too.
There is not a thing wrong with that.Nobody said you were installing the job incorrectly or wrong.The first several questions were due to you not including things like,base materials,the customer wedge request,ect in your 1st post to clear up any grey areas .It's hard to tell what is used unless you ask.
The others were about geotex and if it should be used or not.The fact that you don't "LIKE"
to use geo-fab and "it is not required" is not the point.The point is really good craftsmen,do things they don't like and are not required all the time because that little bit of effot and extra work is neccesary for a job that will last many,many years
and they know it and so they do it "LIKE" it or not.
This is what separates the good from the exellent work.....See what I mean?
So nobodys getting down on your work,just giving you some advice and
if I were you I would thank them and take that knowlage to the next job with u and use it. SheShovel
P.S. I think what brought on the cretique was the title of "Another PERFECT patio Install"

mbella
04-30-2005, 06:04 PM
Good post Sheshovel. Chuck, Sheshovel is right, we're here to learn from each other. I asked what bedding material you used because I couldn't tell from the pics. As I later pointed out, you are not using what the manufacturer specs. Maybe you learned something. I was in no way trying to put you down, only help you. Hopefully, we are all learning from each other.

NCL
04-30-2005, 06:07 PM
Stone dust is not approved by ICPI and geotex is a requirement. Are you certified by the ICPI?

sgallaher
05-01-2005, 10:10 AM
I was not trying to be negative, I just could not tell from the first few pics how you were installing everything. We also always use fabric and concrete sand and follow ICPI guidelines and EP Henry specs. Again not trying to be negative, it does look good.

lawnboy30
05-01-2005, 01:32 PM
CHuck,

Looks good to me. Call me I have a few projects that I can throw your way if you have the time for them. 1 is a large paver project around an inground pool with steps, etc. Call me and we can discuss it.

Thanks.

Chris

landscapingpoolguy
05-03-2005, 08:09 PM
Hey Guys,

Sorry if I seemed a bit on edge, Its the first project Ive done since I injured myself last year so Im a bit touchy. We finished the project today. Honestly I have to admit its one of my better installs. I will get finalized pics once I go pickup the final payment tomorrow evening. Chris sorry I never got back to you. I have been swamped but I would love to work out some stuff with you for projects. I work with several other contractors and we all take care of each other. Ill be doing a patio on Hollywood Ave in about 2 weeks so you can check it out if you want. Everyone else enjoy the pics once I get them up tomorrow evening.

Chuck

GreenMonster
05-04-2005, 02:29 PM
Chuck,

The patio looks great. It's clear that you're very creative in your designs, although I must admit I'm not a big fan of the small pieces either -- sorry.

As far as some of the criticism you've received, I think that there are a lot of fine craftsman here when it comes to hardscapes. So, most guys aren't just looking at the finished product like a homeowner would, but the actual construction of the product as well. Sometimes with pics, it's hard to tell exactly what's going on. More than anything, I'm most guys just want to make sure your showpieces hold up over time.

Hope you prosper in your 2005 comeback!

lawnboy30
05-04-2005, 08:34 PM
Chuck,

Good to hear from you. We should catch up soon and talk about some future projects. I have some accounts off of Hollywood avenue. Let me know where and when and we can meet up there.

CHris

landscapingpoolguy
05-22-2005, 04:32 PM
Hey Guys,

Here are the finished pictures from this install.

landscapingpoolguy
05-22-2005, 04:33 PM
here are the rest.

Chuck

scraper69
05-27-2005, 07:00 AM
Looks good Chuck... i like the brussels look, but the wedges look kind of tacky, but if the customer is happy? no big deal I think i would have went the extra with geo fab. (i agree - its probably not really necessary ) but why not insur the fact that its REALLY a sound construction.

Overall i like it, I think i may do something like that in my own backyard -- and add a built in grill (those are sweet)!

sheshovel
05-29-2005, 03:30 AM
I looked at all your finished pics and it looks great!I only saw one flaw and that was you got a little weird in the left side with your grade to drain .You do real good work !keep it up and keep taking the pics and posting them.I always enjoy looking at work by others!!OK?
thanks Sheshovel

grassyfras
05-29-2005, 04:02 PM
I need to learn how to do that.

Turfdude
05-29-2005, 06:45 PM
I see youi chose blue salvias, day lillies a spiral juniper and possibly shenandoah switch grass. Those salvias are going to grow huge. I like the plant selection, but would have made the bed wider to accomodate the size those plants will grow to w/in the next year or 2. The hardscaping looks good. I think all will agree that whenever doing a raised patio that no matter what is done, some settlement will occur. By using the geo. fabric, settlement will be somewhat minimized. Kudos Chuck on a great job!