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View Full Version : Lazer PTO Clutch....Replaced with pics.


TLS
04-27-2005, 09:54 PM
Mowing last night and went to idle my LC Lazer down so I could blow off the grass and dirt for the evening.

Get all done and notice a strange noise from the rear of the engine. Sounded like a leaf was stuck in a hydro pulley or something. I investigate further and notice the noise is coming from the electric PTO clutch. A real dry sound. I narrowed it down to bearing noise, as it went away when engaged.

So, last night I look in my J-Thomas catalog, and try to cross reference it. No luck. Seeing as though I have the 27hp LC Kawi, it takes an oddball clutch. So this morning I call them thinking I could nurse it through the weekend most likely H had also heard their prices on clutches were pretty good. They were very helpfull on the phone, however, they didn't have one in stock, and would need 7-10 days to order and ship it to me. I thought THAT was stretching my luck a bit too far. I then called my eXmark dealer. Not only did he have the correct one in stock, but it was only $5 more than J-Thomas wanted ($179) plus I wouldn't have to pay shipping!

From what my dealer said, it having 1493 hrs, it was about due anyway.

R&R was rather easy. I used an impact gun to loosen the crank bolt though, as with a ratchet and socket, I was simply turning the engine over.

Here it is as you'd see it on the mower.

Warner Electric MAG-STOP 200 lb/ft clutch

TLS
04-27-2005, 09:55 PM
Here is the back (pulley) side.

TLS
04-27-2005, 09:58 PM
Opened up.....Clutch disc and pressure plate?

They didn't look too worn really.

TLS
04-27-2005, 10:00 PM
Taken fully apart. No tools needed to disassemble.

TLS
04-27-2005, 10:02 PM
This is the electro-magnet I guess. Notice the two cracks at 12 and 6 o'clock in the plastic. You can see copper wire through the one crack.

TLS
04-27-2005, 10:04 PM
This is the pulley and it's bearing. I stuck my index and middle fingers through the bearing and spun the pulley. You could hear it wasn't any good anymore.

TLS
04-27-2005, 10:07 PM
And here is why!

Almost a powdery graphite material inside. No grease whatsoever!!! ;)

Once I took the seals off, the bearing really spun loud, and seemed somewhat loose.

TLS
04-27-2005, 10:09 PM
The other bearing was just as dry.

I guess you could call these 1450 hr bearings! :rolleyes:

TLS
04-28-2005, 07:43 AM
Pictures Forum?

TLS
04-28-2005, 04:28 PM
I guess this didn't intrest anyone. Usually a post with a paperclip (picture) gets responses.

Bottom line....Keep your ear out for clutch bearing noise.

dvmcmrhp52
04-28-2005, 06:29 PM
I thought it was informative ..............
It's always good to hear and see how long things last and why they failed.
Thanks for posting it.

TLS
04-28-2005, 10:28 PM
Thanks.

I just thought that with all the mowers out there with electric clutches, that there would be more intrest in such a thread.

ALarsh
04-28-2005, 11:36 PM
Thanks for the pics. At how much throttle do you engage the clutch at? Full, 1/2?

dvmcmrhp52
04-28-2005, 11:41 PM
I think this goes well with the "spindle bearing thread" that was just going...............
Ya know the one about greasable spindle bearings or non greasable..................


I guess the "NON greasable" bearings do ok, considering you had 1493 hours on it...............


Also shows how tough these clutches actually are...............

TLS
04-29-2005, 07:32 AM
Thanks for the pics. At how much throttle do you engage the clutch at? Full, 1/2?

About 1/4 throttle, with 1/4 pull on the choke. I disengage at idle (unless my leg hits the PTO button!)


I just wish that they would have made the bearings better. Everything else looked GREAT wear wise. I don't know if those cracks in the black plastic would have affected anything though.

But, yeah, for sealed bearings that spin ar 3800 RPM constantly (well, the rear one anyway, the front pulley bearing only spins when the blades are off) they lasted pretty good I think. Especially considering their environment and shock loads.


So, if you guys start hearing noise back there at idle, this is likely what it is.

65hoss
04-29-2005, 08:10 AM
TLS,
How long did it take you to replace it with a new one?
Considering were the clutch is that is good hours. Right down in the dust and dirt. I also turn my pto on at the lowest possible rpm's. With regular blades its about 1700 rpms and with the megmos its about 2100 rpms. Always go to idle before turning it off. I'm glad you posted the pics.

TLS
04-29-2005, 08:20 AM
Lets just say...I could do another one in less than a half hour.....in the field!

The engine just wanted to turn over when I used a 1/2" ratchet with the 16mm socket. This is why I suggest taking the crank bolt off with an impact.

They're a little tricky, and with mine being a LC, I may have more clearance issues. If there are no obstructions in the way, they can be put on in one piece, I had to seperate and put on the pulley, then try to slip the rest on while angling the clutch disc under the brake mechanism, all the while the big magnet is trying to stick to things!

My belt pulley was quite worn as well where the belt seats in the V groove. Real smooth and worn right where the belt rides. This pulley likely wouldn't have went another 1500 hrs without failure.

o-so-n-so
04-30-2005, 01:15 AM
Id like to see more of this type post. Very Tech..ish :D

kppurn
04-30-2005, 01:35 AM
I have actually been hearing that "leaf rubbing" sound coming from the pump drive belt area on my Lazer. I seriously thought there was a leaf in there, but I always keep that area blown out and free of debris.

Makes me wonder if something is about to go out on me?

TLS
04-30-2005, 08:22 AM
kppurn,

Have you released tension on the pump belt idler, removed the belt and checked the pump pulleys for being loose/noisy?

Get a stethiscope or a long handled screwdriver and while its running (belt put back on) raise the seat and listen to each pump to see if you hear any abnormal noise.

Don't rule out the clutch, as noise has a way of traveling through drivetrains/crankshafts, etc. You may want to read my other thread I made last season about the pump idler. Depending on how new your Lazer is, the idler arm is subject to a lot of wear. HERE (http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=72362) is the link for that thread.

kppurn
04-30-2005, 01:12 PM
TLS,

Thanks for the information. No, I have not released tension on the pump belt idler to check the pulleys. I kinda thought that may be where the noise was coming from, but it's hard to tell for sure. I will check this out tomorrow. I've got 970 hrs. on it, so I'm sure it has seen it's fair share of abuse.

TLS
05-01-2005, 07:54 PM
It could very well be your PTO clutch bearings as well.

The pump idler really should be released and greased several times/season.

DLCS
05-01-2005, 10:12 PM
My JD 757s use the same clutch. I get to replace one with 500 hrs on it this week. I got one that doesn't want to engage every time. Seems to just make a hissing noise instead of engaging. Thanks for the impact tip. :)

kppurn
05-01-2005, 11:39 PM
The pump idler really should be released and greased several times/season.

I did this today and so far the noise I was hearing is gone. I didn't get a chance to actually look at it, but after releasing it and greasing, the noise is gone. I grease it periodically, but have never released the tension. It's amazing how well things work when you follow the directions in the manual. :rolleyes:

TLS
05-02-2005, 07:03 AM
DLCS,

Pop your grease seals and take a look/picture.

DLCS
05-03-2005, 09:53 PM
DLCS,

Pop your grease seals and take a look/picture.


TLS,

I'll get a picture for you this weekend. I'm going to try and wait until then to change that clutch. Pto clutch still works but sometimes you have to try to engage it a couple of times before it engages. Do you think it might be the bearing holding it up?

PROCUTSLAWNCARE
05-03-2005, 10:00 PM
I had a PTO clutch go bad on my ZTR last year. It was a warner and only had 600 hrs on it? I engage my blades at 1/4 throttle and always disengage pretty much the same. My problem was not the clutch.... it was the bearings. Went dry and broke apart. Man you should have seen that clutch throw some sparks out the back end. Looked like the fourth of july.

As fas as changing the clutch. Jacked up the rear end and took it off in 2 minutes. It was harder to get the pump belt off so I could get to the clutch.

Hopefully the new one will last 1400 hrs?????????????

TLS
05-03-2005, 11:02 PM
TLS,

I'll get a picture for you this weekend. I'm going to try and wait until then to change that clutch. Pto clutch still works but sometimes you have to try to engage it a couple of times before it engages. Do you think it might be the bearing holding it up?

May want to pull your switch, and clean the wiring harness that plugs in behind it. Mine was caked with dust/dirt and halfway pulled out! I cleaned it real good, lube it with dielectric grease and bent a few spades out to hold it in better.

This could be your problem. Unless dry bearings mess up the magnetic field somehow?

PROCUTSLAWNCARE
05-04-2005, 08:46 PM
No, No. The bearings were completely gone in it. Thanks for the info though........

RedWolf
05-15-2005, 11:58 PM
If you have a shop press you could press them out and press new ones in.Thats what i did for the one on my Dixon.Just go slow and you`ll be in great shape.Any good bearing shop should match it up with no trouble at all.

dvblandscaping
05-01-2007, 02:51 PM
I have a Wright 48 Velke. 80 hours and the clutch went. Its the same mag clutch as in the pics I believe. 350$ for the part... I just bought the machine off someone who bought it new in 2005. I am not the original owner so no warranty for me. I plan to call wright and complain. Dont know what else to do. Im out 400 bucks including labor.

But you're right about the sound of the leaf. I almost diddnt bring it in, I thought I was being too finicky.

But sure enough I was right!

Not too happy about this though.

burlap
05-10-2007, 10:00 PM
I also have a clutch that lookes just like the one in this thread. It's a Warner CMSR 175 instead of a 200. It won't engage the mower but but makes a hissing sound with a few sparks and a load on the engine. I can hear it click when I jump it with 12 volts and the pto shaft will turn manually with the belts off. My question is that I don't see where or how to check the air gap. Before I scrap it I want to check the air gap. Can anyone tell me how I can do that. Thanks, burlap

TLS
05-10-2007, 10:02 PM
These are NON-Serviceable clutches. Remove and replace.

Ogura clutchs' are the only "serviceable" ones.

Gruneich Lawn Care, Inc.
05-10-2007, 10:35 PM
As a matter of fact, I was laying on the ground replacing the clutch on my 52" 23hp turf tracer monday morning, what a way to start out the week. Not hard to replace at all once you have replace one of them

ranger350
05-11-2007, 06:36 AM
Your lucky you got that many hours out of an electric clutch! Ive had bearings go before in my lawn tractor....on a saturday of course. But they are just a standard bearing so i replaced them and got another 400 hours out of it, lol. It was a Warner clutch also.....just have to chisel off those tabs holding in the bearing and away you go! When you get cracks in the epoxy holding in the coil, moisture will get in and expand the coil pack....then it will rub on the friction disk and short.

DiyDave
05-11-2007, 06:51 AM
I guess the reason they don't use grease is it might bleed out and ruin the clutch. How many hours did you get out of it?

DiyDave
05-11-2007, 06:53 AM
Whoops, didn't read all the pages of the post!

Gruneich Lawn Care, Inc.
05-11-2007, 08:31 PM
Both of my Lazer's clutch's made it to around 1000 hours, I have a Hustler that still has the original clutch at around 950 hours.

FHB4LIFE
05-15-2013, 12:43 AM
I know this post is a few years old, but Im hoping you can help me. I also have a 27hp LC Kawasaki Exmark. My pto clutch made noise, but unfortunately I waited until it shattered before fixing it. When I removed the old clutch, I noticed there was a 1"-1 1/2" groove, about 20,000-40,000 thousandths deep in the crankshaft. My question is, when you took the old clutch off, did you notice any wear on the crankshaft near the spacer. Thanks for your time.

TLS
05-15-2013, 08:16 AM
Sorry, this WAS a long time ago. But, if something was wrong, I surely would have remembered it. Does it "look" factory, or does it "look" like something gouged it? Take some pictures and post them up. I'm sure somebody would know here!

Exmark PR
05-15-2013, 08:57 AM
If you’d like assistance from Exmark Customer service, please call us at 800-667-5296 and you have your model and serial number available.

FHB4LIFE
05-15-2013, 02:06 PM
First pic is with the spacer on it and the second is w/o the spacer. Thanks for any help.

-Mike

ZX12R
05-19-2013, 02:57 PM
[QUOTE=TLS;1010102]About 1/4 throttle, with 1/4 pull on the choke. I disengage at idle (unless my leg hits the PTO button!)


Starting the mower for the first time in the morning(cold engine),I engage the PTO at almost full throttle or the machine will almost stall. After that,going from job tojob,I engage at about 1/4 throttle. I always disengage at idle all the time.

Sounds like it an easy replacement for the do it your-selfer.How much time is involved?

Thanks for taking the time to post this.

TLS
05-19-2013, 03:04 PM
FHB4Life,

That doesn't look normal, but it was a while ago. Does the clutch fit tight or loose on the shaft?

ZX12R,

My point was, if you leave the choke on partially, you won't stall it. No need for full throttle engagement.

There is a lot of room to work with unlike today's vertical shaft engines.
Posted via Mobile Device

ZX12R
05-19-2013, 03:25 PM
FHB4Life,

That doesn't look normal, but it was a while ago. Does the clutch fit tight or loose on the shaft?

ZX12R,

My point was, if you leave the choke on partially, you won't stall it. No need for full throttle engagement.

There is a lot of room to work with unlike today's vertical shaft engines.
Posted via Mobile Device

Interesting,I will give that a try.