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Stan MI
05-02-2005, 09:32 PM
How long after application is the product "Rain Safe". Or, how much time should there be before it rains again after I spray to not wash off.

And

Is 80oz (2-4-D) to 40gal (Water) to 40,000 square feet, Correct ??

Thanks in advance for any help.

qps
05-02-2005, 09:46 PM
How long after application is the product "Rain Safe". Or, how much time should there be before it rains again after I spray to not wash off.

And

Is 80oz (2-4-D) to 40gal (Water) to 40,000 square feet, Correct ??

Thanks in advance for any help.


If you applying 1.5 oz a thou you should use 60 oz....how much water depends on the your rate per thousand your spraying (carrier), if your licensed you should know this

Garth
05-02-2005, 10:41 PM
A systemic herbicide, 2,4-D is easily absorbed by foliage and translocated throughout the treated plant, which dies in 7-14 days. Phenoxy acid herbicides like 2,4-D mimic the action of natural plant growth regulators known as auxins, causing treated plants to literally grow themselves to death. In soil, 2,4-D residues usually dissipate within a month, primarily due to microbial degradation.Concentration levels vary for desired effect but are dependent on leaf surface, i.e. the broader the leaf, the more toxin absorbed. Because of this, grass having very little leaf surface shows little to no effect and dandelion, having a broad horizontal leaf structure dies. The longer it stays on the leaf surface, the better the translocation. Although the product dries in a few hours, it is better to leave it on for at least 24 hours before water is applied. If you don't have a license, get someone who does. 2,4D is a restricted material and there are many studies showing increased occurences of lymphoma and other cancers. It can also contaminate water supplies by runoff and should never be used without consulting an Ag commissioner in areas with high water tables.

ArizPestWeed
05-03-2005, 01:09 AM
I use 24d @ 1 once per gal and the weeds wilt over night .
You wrote 7 to 14 days .
Maybe you are thinking glyfosate , if so , OK

Neal Wolbert
05-03-2005, 01:11 AM
Garth, What's your source on 2,4-D and cancer? Take a look at www.pestfacts.org for recent info. I understand there is no science behind the claim. Neal

Grandview
05-03-2005, 05:55 AM
2-4D is rainfast within four hours. 80 0z per acres seems high. I have not used it in a couple years. You need to know how much your sprayer is putting out.

Stan MI
05-03-2005, 08:17 AM
What I was looking for was a simple equation that I could translate easily.

In other words, if 80 oz per acre is high is 60 correct for 40 gal and 40,000 square feet ?

I know there are other varibles. My thought was fill the sprayer with the correct mix and cover a specific area. If I have to cross the same path once or several times until the sprayer is empty I have applied what was in the unit.

Thanks again.

Grandview
05-03-2005, 08:44 AM
You need to read the label. How many oz 2-4D per acre does the label say to use? If the label says use 80 oz then use that. The second issue is how much water to mix with it. That depends on how much your sprayer puts out. If your sprayer puts out 40 gals/acre, then mix 80 0z for every 40 gals. You can determine that by filling up your sprayer with water, spray an acre and see how much you use. I only spray 5 gals/acre so I would mix 80 oz/ 5 gals. Every sprayer is different. Speed and pressure also determine output. The math is more complicated than just mixing so many ounces per gallon.

Stan MI
05-03-2005, 09:23 AM
You need to read the label. How many oz 2-4D per acre does the label say to use? If the label says use 80 oz then use that. The second issue is how much water to mix with it. That depends on how much your sprayer puts out. If your sprayer puts out 40 gals/acre, then mix 80 0z for every 40 gals. You can determine that by filling up your sprayer with water, spray an acre and see how much you use. I only spray 5 gals/acre so I would mix 80 oz/ 5 gals. Every sprayer is different. Speed and pressure also determine output. The math is more complicated than just mixing so many ounces per gallon.

Thank you for the response.

As to the label. It is vague at best as to how much to use per acre. That's why I asked here. as to the sprayer out put. I know this is not the most efficient way. In an effort to simplify I am attempting to eliminate speed and pressure from the eqauation.

BCSteel
05-03-2005, 09:33 AM
Ok, heres an example *not factual numbers*

Label says to use 15 oz/10000 sf. to control broad leaf weeds in cool season turf. The math is simple

15 oz
------ = -------
10000 sf 55000 sf (or what ever area you need to apply it to)

So the equation goes 15 oz x 55000sf / 10000sf = 82.5 oz. I think its called cross multiply and divide. You can use this formula for any combination of 2 factors as long as you are working in the same unitson the top and the same units on the bottom.

DiscoveryLawn
05-03-2005, 09:37 AM
Thank you for the response.

As to the label. It is vague at best as to how much to use per acre. That's why I asked here. as to the sprayer out put. I know this is not the most efficient way. In an effort to simplify I am attempting to eliminate speed and pressure from the eqauation.

This is very simple. If you are covering 40,000 sq ft with 40 gallons (1 gal per 1000 sq. ft.) and the label calls for 1 oz. of 2,4-D per 1000 sq. ft. then mix 40 ozs. with 40 gallons and apply to 40,000 sq. ft. evenly.

The problem is you are starting at the wrong end of this equation. You need to know at what rate are you applying (the mix) per 1000 sq. ft.? After that has been determined is when you can figure how much 2,4-D to ad to 40 gallons of water. Other variables to consider is what kind of coverage do want to get? Droplet size? Appropriate pressure? Walking pace? Etc..

David

Garth
05-03-2005, 09:48 AM
Garth, What's your source on 2,4-D and cancer? Take a look at www.pestfacts.org for recent info. I understand there is no science behind the claim. Neal
Ministry of Health in Canada noted an increase in cancer among farmers and their families who used pesticides containing 2,4D. They also found, and I'm not making this up, dogs were contracting lymphoma that were confined to yards where 2,4D was routinely used. As a result the Canadian government with the backing of medical professionals is looking to ban it's use to the general public. Now I may have followed the Grateful Dead for four years and yes, I have hair down to my waist but I am a Qualified Applicator and believe in better life through chemicals. I also believe in responsible use. I'm stating facts that I have read in medical journals and medical websites and not on the websites of militant hippy eco-terrorists, just so you know. But, even if you don't think that this is real, remember when cloradane was putting pest control out of business? Everyone thought the stuff was the best thing to ever happen...until they found out that it was fat-insoluble and it started showing up in well water.

BCSteel
05-03-2005, 10:09 AM
Ok, heres an example *not factual numbers*

Label says to use 15 oz/10000 sf. to control broad leaf weeds in cool season turf. The math is simple

15 oz
------ = -------
10000 sf 55000 sf (or what ever area you need to apply it to)

So the equation goes 15 oz x 55000sf / 10000sf = 82.5 oz. I think its called cross multiply and divide. You can use this formula for any combination of 2 factors as long as you are working in the same unitson the top and the same units on the bottom.

This can work to calibrate your sprayer as well. If you know that your sprayer puts out .27 gallons/1000sf and you need to spray 55000sf the equation looks like this

.27 gal.
------ = --------
750sf.... 55000sf

So .27 gal x 55000sf / 1000sf = 19.8 gal

From the previous equation we know that you need 82.5 oz of product to cover 55000sf so to apply it through your sprayer you would need to mix it with 19.8 gallons of water to cover 55000sf. Pretty easy eh?

Garth
05-03-2005, 10:11 AM
About the Industry Task Force II on 2,4-D Research Data
The Industry Task Force II on 2,4-D Research Data is organized to provide
funding for some 300 GLP research studies required to respond to the Canadian
and U.S. pesticide re-evaluation/re-registration programs. The 2,4-D Task Force is
made up of those companies owning the technical Canadian and U.S. registrations
on the active ingredient in 2,4-D herbicides. They are Dow AgroSciences (U.S.),
Nufarm, Ltd. (Australia) and Agro-Gor Corp., a U.S. corporation jointly owned by
Atanor, S.A. (Argentina) and PBI-Gordon Corp. (U.S.).
In the continuing public debate on this important matter of public policy, it
remains important that the principle of weight-of-evidence is not discarded. For
those who wish to receive copies of any of the regulatory decisions or studies
referenced, please do not hesitate to call the Task Force at 1-800-345-5109.


It's kinda interesting that the people who say there is no risk are the ones making the money off it's use. Let's face it. If a Saudi prince tells you that gas is too cheap, would you believe him?
I think that the whole debate lies on whether the labels are followed. There are alot of people out there who think more is better and disregard the instructions given for each substance. Homeowner are especially guilty of this. As licensed applicators, we know that to apply too much is not only unprofitable but potentially hazardous. There's my view.

coyoteman
05-03-2005, 10:30 PM
Here is the PMRA's february, 2005 report on 2,4,d. http://www.pmra-arla.gc.ca/english/pdf/highlights/InfoNote-2,4-D-e.pdf

Garth
05-04-2005, 02:15 AM
"Part of the human health assessment is to ensure that, when 2,4-D is used according to label
directions, there is a large enough margin of safety between the level of exposure humans could
be exposed to and any identified toxic effect during animal testing. The PMRA’s assessment
included the addition of extra safety factors to ensure that the most sensitive subpopulations,
such as children and pregnant women, were also protected. The PMRA also took into
consideration the unique physiology, behaviours and play habits of children, such as their lower
body weights and hand-to-mouth contact while playing on treated grass."


I've notice the "according to label instructions" part in this. I am impressed, however, that you've found a website with no visible manufacturer ties, coyoteman. Well done, that man. It still leaves the question though. What, if anything, will they do if they find that the second most commonly used pesticide is carcinogenic in higher than recommended amounts?