Best way to run valves with no AC power.

[jcom]

I have been asked for a quote to install electric valves and timer. After looking it over, it is almost impossible to get wires to the valves. A lot of carpentry would be necessary. Tear out several ceilings, walls, etc..

What is the best remote way to power them up by using electric valves and starting them without a conventional controller. Rainbird makes EasyRain but is quite costly. Hunter uses a similar setup but much less expensive. Each company also has multi-station setups as well.

Need to makeover 21 stations. There are now 2-3 in one area but I could bury wire to combine them if necessary to use multistation.

Any ideas or experience with any of these or something completely different?

Does anyone make a complete wireless transmitter/controller to wireless valve system?


John ;) ;)

[Wet_Boots]

because this question doesn't make much sense, unless the situation is extreme. If the valves are outdoors, one could always employ an outdoors controller. If there is no outdoor AC near the valves, you have it installed. There are situations where carpentry considerations affect a sprinkler system design, but I have yet to see one where it forced a system to run without AC power. If the homeowner wants a controller in a specific problem location, talk him out of it, and maybe sell a remote operator as an extra.

[jcom]

This is an extreme situation! No AC power so outdoor controller won't work. We will have to check on electrician installed options. Tear down of interior is not going to fly either.

I was hoping for feedback of the use of individual valve controllers of some type or brand in the event that no other option is available.

Thanks for your help!

John :waving:

[bicmudpuppy]

I have been asked for a quote to install electric valves and timer. After looking it over, it is almost impossible to get wires to the valves. A lot of carpentry would be necessary. Tear out several ceilings, walls, etc..

What is the best remote way to power them up by using electric valves and starting them without a conventional controller. Rainbird makes EasyRain but is quite costly. Hunter uses a similar setup but much less expensive. Each company also has multi-station setups as well.

Need to makeover 21 stations. There are now 2-3 in one area but I could bury wire to combine them if necessary to use multistation.

Any ideas or experience with any of these or something completely different?

Does anyone make a complete wireless transmitter/controller to wireless valve system?


John ;) ;)
Ok, best? or least expensive? 21 stations of existing valves? or new install. Depending on the brand of valves already installed (assuming existing) then I say IBOC. Irritrol Battery Operated Controller. Uses two 6v dry cells and you can get a full season out of them. When I worked in the DFW area, we had several projects where AC wasn't an option. The IBOC works. Of late, I have seen a few guys operate ICC's with tandem 12v auto batteries. Not my prefered solution, but I am told it works. I am told the ICC will actually open and close the appropriate circuits from the 9v backup battery, but that isn't enough power to fire a solenoid. With the IBOC, you have to switch to DC latching solenoids (retrofits for most brands are available). With the ICC setup, I understand they are rotating the batteries on a monthly schedule. (Guy I knew who was doing this had 3 or 4 controllers set up this way. He used one "spare" set and rotated them one day apart) Good luck. DC applications are always fun. FYI, I would recomend the wiring be 14ga if at all possible. 18ga is going to be a stretch with DC

[sheshovel]

You must mean 21 heads not 21 stations,each station can run more than one head.I'm not sure what the heck you are talking about,Dig makes a controller that sets on top of the valve and runs on batteries that will run a station, or you can put a multistaton controller outside if it is in outside approved metal box mounted on a post with AC running to it from the house or garage thru conduit and brought up to a GFI that has a plastic weatherproof cover over it and plug into that

[jerryrwm]

I have been asked for a quote to install electric valves and timer. After looking it over, it is almost impossible to get wires to the valves. A lot of carpentry would be necessary. Tear out several ceilings, walls, etc..

What is the best remote way to power them up by using electric valves and starting them without a conventional controller. Rainbird makes EasyRain but is quite costly. Hunter uses a similar setup but much less expensive. Each company also has multi-station setups as well.

Need to makeover 21 stations. There are now 2-3 in one area but I could bury wire to combine them if necessary to use multistation.

Any ideas or experience with any of these or something completely different?

Does anyone make a complete wireless transmitter/controller to wireless valve system?


John ;) ;)


Could you be a little more specific? Why is the no way to get power to the location? Is the area completely isolated? As for getting electrical power to the area, contact an electrician that you could sub-contract. They can usually pull power wires long distances in tight spaces without a lot of damage.

You are looking at a pocketful of coin using individual battery operated controllers on 21 stations.

Another option is a solar powered controller. It is (or was) called LEIT-8000. You have to use their valves, and their wire. Not cheap, but functional.

Also that IBOC that mudpuppy mentioned with latching solenoids and even a solar power option, is a good choice also. They have been around for a long time.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Jerry R

[YardPro]

an electrician can certinally run power from under the house, of somewhere....

I don't buy this " getting power is impossible"

the hunter setup is really nice, but at $50.00/ controller you're looking at a thousand bucks, plus batteries, plus programing each one..... sounds like a shceduling nightmare......

GET AC............

[jcom]

You are all correct! Nothing is impossible if price is no object. :rolleyes:

We are looking into electrician pricing for AC for 4 different controllers outside. Five separate buildings and yes, 21 stations. It has been installed with manual valves at the present and I am putting together an estimate to upgrade to electrics. Customer first wanted timers indoors and a carpenter would be necessary to allow wires to stations.

Using individual valve mount controllers , the cost is close to $3500! Controller, valve, and dc latching solenoid for each one. And I mean my cost. Not counting installation, plumbing and so on.

Using the battery controllers, the cost is somewhat less but the valves, and also the latching solenoid are still required.

I will get some estimates from electrician and go from there.

Thanks for all your info.

John :waving:

[Wet_Boots]

Five separate buildings, none of which has any electrical power? Hoo-Boy. How many acres is this complex? Is there a single water source?

[jcom]

Complex covers about 5 acres total. Five separate water sources. Concrete parking lots all over. I could pull wire to combine two areas with one timer and the others would have to be stand alone.

At present there is no external AC except to plug in poles which are wired to individual apt. meters. Irrigation has to be powered by common areas which are paid by the owner.

I expect my time will be for free on this one as I don't think any of the options are going to be accepted.

John :waving:

[Instant Rain]

I would use a single control valve at each water source. This valve would be controlled by a Nelson Solorain controller. This type of controller can be programed with up to six different start/stop times. The NiCad battery has a life of about two or three years when used for watering warm season and cool season over seeded turf. This contoller replaces the solenoid. You will need an adaptor if you plan on placeing it on a brand of valvbe other than Nelson. Following this valve I would place an indexing valve. An indexing valve has a single inlet and as many as six outlets. This is perfect for the Solorain. The indexing valve requires a delay between stations to select the next station. No wires are needed. No electrician is needed. Just back-flow, controller valve, indexing valve, pipe, fittings, and heads.

[jcom]

Hi Instant Rain,

I am not familiar with the Solarain from Nelson but will try and get some info and pricing. Is the indexing valve from Nelson also or another company?

Thanks for the help.

John :waving:

[Wet_Boots]

Indexing valves are not cold-climate-friendly. Even when blown out, sitting idle for months doesn't help their reliability.

Depending on the layout (single water supply?) one controller, with field-run wire to the other manifolds, might do the job.

We're still missing some pertinent details on this particular installation.

[drmiller100]

if it were me, i'd do this.

red top optima battery. cost is 100 bucks, and are cool because you can cycle them a bunch and it doesn't hurt them.
40 dollar ac inverter.
50 dollar solar battery trickler charger. build a box to house it all.

you could probably run 3 to 5 controllers off of each battery if you can make the cords reach.

if this is commercial, 5000 bucks to automate it is not a big deal. cool thing is not digging.
if you want a smaller package, use small sealed lead acid batteries for a motorcycle. probably get one of those for 50 bucks instead the redtop optima.

[jcom]

Battery idea would create a nightmare before winter as they would all have to be taken out and stored and then reinstalled in the spring. -30 is not battery friendly to say the least.

There are five water sources now but I could combine two areas electrically to eliminate one water source. As I stated before, buildings are surroounded by concrete except for the immediate area next to them which is being watered now with manual valves on underground pipe and heads.

After looking at the Solarain on Nelsons' website, it would appear it is similar to a Hunter system-the WV or something like that. Again, by the time all the latching solenoids and their controllers and the programmer for them have been figured in , it is not going to fly as to the expense.

These buildings and grounds have been haphazardly organized with no thought to future irrigation possiblities. Least expensive all the way.

The present valve boxes are located next to the buildings and the manager goes to each one, opens it up and turns a zone on as needed. I think an outdoor timer in four locations would be ideal if the electrical was not an issue. Will have to wait and see their estimate.

Thanks for all the ideas.

John :waving:

[Wet_Boots]

Ahh, I missed post #10 - if this old system is being run from manual valves, the question of backflow prevention would enter into things. With separate water sources, bringing a no-backflow system up to speed would add some bucks to the cost. Given that it's an apartment complex, going by the book, as far as backflow goes, will cover your tail. I have seen instances where a separate electrical service and meter was installed to power a sprinkler system, where the conventional sources weren't there. If there are exterior electrical meters, then the AC you need is within reach.

Least Expensive is the warning not to go nuts over planning the upgrade. Too cheap to do it right in the first place may very well mean too cheap to upgrade it right (unless forced to by an inspector)

[Dirty Water]

I think your underestimating the skills of electricians.

Is there any lightposts/outdoor lights or anything close to where you want to run the timers. They probably run on the appt complex's meter, and not a private renters. An electrician could easily give you outlets from those.

[YardPro]

You are all correct! Nothing is impossible if price is no object. :rolleyes:

We are looking into electrician pricing for AC for 4 different controllers outside. Five separate buildings and yes, 21 stations. It has been installed with manual valves at the present and I am putting together an estimate to upgrade to electrics. Customer first wanted timers indoors and a carpenter would be necessary to allow wires to stations.

Using individual valve mount controllers , the cost is close to $3500! Controller, valve, and dc latching solenoid for each one. And I mean my cost. Not counting installation, plumbing and so on.

Using the battery controllers, the cost is somewhat less but the valves, and also the latching solenoid are still required.

I will get some estimates from electrician and go from there.

Thanks for all your info.

John :waving:
we just did a similar project last fall.. 27 zones. all hand activated. we were able to condense them into 12.. we had to use 3 controllers to avoid cutting through the parking lot.

can you do something similar....

[sprinkler guy]

jcom,

this may all be moot if the owner will be scared away by the price , as you have said a might happen, but...

The IBOC set-up is the best solution. Proven track record, good reliability, and with the solar charging option for the gel-pack battery cells, battery maintenance would be at a minimum. Nelson also makes a unit that has a ten-year battery life, but it is for a single valve. For multi-valve, if budget is such a factor, I would recommend Hunter's SVC, or the WVC. Stay away from Dig; you have to use their special DC solenoid, and their track record for the last couple years has been spotty at best. With the Hunter system you can use any two-wire DC latching solenoid. Rain Bird's units (both TBOS and EasyRain) are nice, but a little more expensive than Hunter's, and not the easiest to program. The LEIT system would be the nicest, but by far the costliest.

We sell am all, so I'm telling you my two-cents based on experience. Also, I don't deal with any extreme freezing temperatures here, so double check with the manufacturer for the most durable unit for your area.

[bicmudpuppy]

I thought of this post yesterday while in the parts house. A guy was in dealing with the Hunter WCV setup. He must have goten a bad batch of the single valve controllers as he was collecting warranty on six of them. The newer 4 station WCV was being displayed and the rep claimed you could extend the wire up to 100' and did not have to upgrade beyond 18ga. At only $194 list for the 4 station unit, this might be a more affordable option. The single station units were over $100 ea. The only added expense was the programer. The hand held wireless programmer was around $400. I think this was cost not list. BUT that would get your per controller cost down to around $200 per if you could do it in 4 controllers and only 16 total valves. Or if you do it in 5 controllers 4 stations each, you are under $100 per controller for the programmer.

[JimLewis]

What's wrong with just using a battery operated controller?

I've used the Hunter SVC Controllers (http://www.hunterindustries.com/Products/Controllers/svcintro.html) in the past and they seem to work very well. They run off 1 9V battery and install very easily. They're not real easy to program. But if you read the manual, you get the hang of it.

You can use a regular valve but you can't use a regular solenoid. You have to get a D.C. Latching Solenoid. Most controllers and valves are set to operate off of 12V or 24V. So to operate off of just 9V you have to get these special valves that come with the D.C. latching solenoids. Hunter makes them (so does rainbird for that matter). They install just like a regular valve does.

There are two types of Hunter SVC controllers. One can handle only one valve at at time. Another can handle up to 4 valves.

We maintain a 7-11 store with this set-up. Their system worked for over a year with just 1 9V battery.