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MJhnson Lawn
05-18-2005, 04:51 PM
Watching the news today they reported Landscapers being robbed at gun point and pistol whipped for all their equipment. I'm going to start carrying
my 9mm in the holster and on my hip while working and just hope I don't
offend my clients.

jbell113
05-18-2005, 04:54 PM
yea I seen that....kinda scary ....my brother in law will be with me ...hes a crazy green beret so if they come around I will keep working while he takes care of those guys. Evidently there scared to shoot anyone or they would have done it already.

kc2006
05-18-2005, 05:01 PM
If any of your customers say anything about you carrying just explain the situation. They should understand. Bring a 357 savage and the robbers won't even come near you :D

Eddie B
05-18-2005, 05:21 PM
I read somewhere last year where a LCO was shot and killed, robbery was the motive. Really makes you think sometimes. I've made a habit of only carrying the equipment I need, especially after starting the season off with my truck, trailer, and equipment all stolen while out on the job.

Reliable Lawn Care
05-18-2005, 05:46 PM
Where did this robbery happen at? I haven't heard this yet?

nelbuts
05-18-2005, 05:53 PM
I have a conseal carry permit. I don't want them to know I am packing. Get them close and save the taxpayers money. I have kept one in the truck for years.

Cimarron Landscape
05-18-2005, 06:38 PM
In Texas, ya have to have the permit to carry it anywhere, unless you are a ranch hand....not sure if LCO qualifies for that...bummer :p
Yeah, I'll carry a handgun when I'm able to, know several people pesonally that were robbed at gunpoint....not a situation I want to be in.
~Brian

South Florida Lawns
05-18-2005, 07:10 PM
They just passed a bill enabling the person being robbed to shoot back and not be held accountable.

DennisF
05-18-2005, 07:17 PM
Can you say Glock. Never leave home without him.

Better to be judged by 12 than to be carried by 6.

Dashunde
05-18-2005, 08:17 PM
(Funny.. I just posted this yesterday in another thread)

I'm glad I'm in MO.
I'm also glad I'm a law abiding, well practiced and fully trained recipient of our Concealed Carry Permit.
I carry a Kel-Tec P3AT(.380 auto) in light clothing, a Kahr PM9 when wearing jeans, and a Kimber TLEII 1911 .45ACP during the winter.

Although I'd really hate to unload on someone threatening my life or loved ones... It's nice to know that I can.

mdobar
05-18-2005, 08:28 PM
Here is the artical out of the AJC in Atlanta.


Lawn care workers attacked in Cobb

By MIKE MORRIS
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Published on: 05/18/05
Cobb County police are investigating two cases this month in which lawn care workers in were attacked.
On May 10, two employees of Gibbs Landscaping were kidnapped and their truck hijacked from a jobsite on Six Flags Drive in Mableton.
One of the victims was beaten, kicked and pistol-whipped, and both victims were kidnapped. They were released about two hours later in DeKalb County, said Cobb police Cpl. Dana Pierce.
The truck was found the following day in DeKalb, but the lawn care equipment has not been located.
Pierce said the suspects were described as two black men in their mid-20s to early 30s, one 5 feet 10 inches tall and weighing 300 pounds or more, and the other 6 feet tall and weighing about 180 pounds.
The second incident occurred on Monday, when an employee of Chips Lawn Care had his truck and equipment hijacked from the 2700 block of Mableton Parkway in Austell.
The two suspects forced the victim into the trunk of a green Ford Taurus, Pierce said, but the victim was able to escape. He was treated at a local hospital and released, Pierce said.

Cimarron Landscape
05-18-2005, 09:10 PM
(Funny.. I just posted this yesterday in another thread)

I'm glad I'm in MO.
I'm also glad I'm a law abiding, well practiced and fully trained recipient of our Concealed Carry Permit.
I carry a Kel-Tec P3AT(.380 auto) in light clothing, a Kahr PM9 when wearing jeans, and a Kimber TLEII 1911 .45ACP during the winter.

Although I'd really hate to unload on someone threatening my life or loved ones... It's nice to know that I can.

I'm with you...like I said, soon as I can, I'll be in the same position as you.-cept with a CZ :cool2:
~Brian

LwnmwrMan22
05-18-2005, 09:13 PM
I have a tendency to mow at night, like 1-4 am in the summer time at my commercial places, trying to stay out of the heat if it's really warm, plus I'm not cutting when the sun's the hottest anyways.

I do a bunch of commercial where the entire property is lit up well, a couple of Wal-Marts, some car dealers, etc., but there are darker areas that need to be trimmed where there are some shadows.

I do get nervous sometimes, mowing at 2 am at a car dealer and there's people driving through, because you know they're looking for something to steal. Not too many people looking at cars at that time of night.

The Wal-Marts aren't bad, they're open 24 hours.

jimslawns
05-18-2005, 09:27 PM
Hate to think of the poor would be theif!!!! CCP here! :D

jpp
05-18-2005, 09:31 PM
WTF, I am so sick and tired of thieves taking hardworking men and women's money. I bet you these are crackheads that are doing this stuff. I for one would like to pack a gun while I was out but I don't have a permit. Plus when I get ticked off that might not be a good idea to have around. :realmad: :realmad:

pjslawncare/landscap
05-18-2005, 09:52 PM
Ive held a permit for many years and feel a little better if we ever go to crappy neighborhoods or something like that. I have a stainless AMT 380 pocket pistol that hides nicely under anything I wear, but its there if I ever need to protect myself in an extreme situation

Toy2
05-18-2005, 10:03 PM
Being a former Sheriff's Deputy and being involved in a shooting, all I can say if you pull it, you better use it, no BS, just pull the trigger.....it's not TV....Be Safe!! :cool:

Cimarron Landscape
05-18-2005, 10:12 PM
Amen Martinez.
I've studied proper techniques for concealed carry, the law, etc. Threatening is NOT good. if you pull, shoot. If you shoot, shoot to kill. That's at least Texas. If you do otherwise, you can only imagine the ways that criminal will bring it to court and haunt you. Also realize that if you do take a life, you will most definately end up in court. Better have a good reason.
~Brian

BryPaulD
05-18-2005, 10:32 PM
and if you start carrying, now you could be accused of being the robber???

rachel3511
05-18-2005, 11:19 PM
Had my carry permit for a long time now in FL, just recently got it when I moved to OH.

Carry a KT P3AT and Kahr PM9 like another poster said.

Not only good for idiots like these robbers, but if I ever have a huge dog coming at me, he's gone.

Most people who pull a gun do not have to use it, only 15% of the time actually according to the stats.

Be safe.

Turf Dancer
05-19-2005, 03:40 AM
I would love to have someone try that crap with me, I get pissed and then I fly off the handle. I also have a ccp, I am also getting one for WA since I do some work over there. I wonder how fast they would run when you pull a gun on them. I pulled a gun on a punk once that would not get off my porch and the cops were busy. He jumped over a 4' high juniper hedge. Damn kid anyway. He was trying to scam me for cash, said it was a donation for the school. I got him to leave. I have thought about using it for those Jehovah's Witnesses that come to my door and won't leave.

lawnman_scott
05-19-2005, 07:22 AM
I have thought about using it for those Jehovah's Witnesses that come to my door and won't leave.Sounds like a great idea. More rational than going in the house and closing the door in their faces.

ztoro
05-19-2005, 08:58 AM
I pulled a gun on a punk once that would not get off my porch and the cops were busy. He jumped over a 4' high juniper hedge. Damn kid anyway. He was trying to scam me for cash, said it was a donation for the school.


hope he doesnt want revenge, since he knows where you live.....

KathysLGC
05-19-2005, 10:09 AM
Glock 23 here. Gotta love the 40cal... I got her pre ban also. 13 rounds baby!
I call her Amy because the serial # is AMY###

excell
05-19-2005, 10:26 AM
Here in Detroit, with our rep. I dare not leave out the house without my 9mm Smith & Wesson. We LCO's work very hard and I know a couple of guys that want to wear expensive jewelry and glasses and have been robbed. They were fortunate that the robbers didn't ask for the money and equipment. I know it will come when they want our equipment.
However, if I pull it, it will be used. Here is the catch... to protect your life not your stuff. I'll be damned!!

Gravely_Man
05-19-2005, 11:45 AM
Tough call people. This is why I have full insurance on everything. My equipment is not worth my life or someone else's life as well. They can have the equipment but if it is a life threaten situation then it is all about survival.



Gravely_Man

Pro-Scapes
05-19-2005, 12:31 PM
Tough call people. This is why I have full insurance on everything. My equipment is not worth my life or someone else's life as well. They can have the equipment but if it is a life threaten situation then it is all about survival.



Gravely_Man


I agree. Let em have the stuff its not worth being hurt or killed over. I carry a glock 9 in my truck but hello. What ggood is it in there if your being robbed outside?

I lock my truck and all gear is locked down and I usually keep it in sight. Being most of my jobs are in the country helps a lot I'm sure. If it came to it tho I would be popin a slug in someone tho. I'm insured tho. I'm not losing a drop of blood for some machine that can be replaced.

sheshovel
05-19-2005, 12:59 PM
Sounds to me like the two LCO's dident have a choice,they were brutaly attacked.The theives diden't say "hey give us you equipment or we will beat the livin crap out of you".They jumped them by suprise possibly,pistol whipped one of them,while and in a situation like that you are likely to get you gun taken from you and increasing the chances of you getting shot.

Someboby should invent a bag of dye that releases out of the equipment or trailer or a remote pop out banner or sign that you can activate from anywhere that would display off the back of the trailer that reads:PULL ME OVER I AM STOLEN!or CALL POLICE THIS TRAILER IS STOLEN.!Or a special remote control licenceplate frame that would flash those messages when activated. Just one of those wierd ideas that flash into my head.
But like they say if you do carry a gun be prepared to use it and to protect it from being taken away from you in a fight,and if you shoot ,shoot to kill,don't aim for the body aim for the head.

Grassmechanic
05-19-2005, 01:56 PM
I have thought about using it for those Jehovah's Witnesses that come to my door and won't leave.Just offer them to come in for a shot of JD and to watch Girls Gone Wild videos. :D :waving:

Mgardner
05-19-2005, 06:54 PM
I believe if they are in the act of using deadly force to abduct you in any way you have a legal obligation to send them to the closest ER with a nice round to the chest ,hopefully through the heart. They made the decision to weild deadly force therefore they have no protection under the law. Same goes if they pull a knive and you feel they intend to kill you. BAM !!! Thats why target practice is so vital.

Jeff@SGLC.ca
05-19-2005, 08:33 PM
It's always interesting when I listen to the americans talk about their guns lol. Haven't went for my license to own a gun but we don't have Conceal licenses. I believe in our southern ontario area there was only one civilian allowed to carry a concealed weapon and he was the chairman of the Toronto Transit Commision. I'd carry one strapped if I could. Specially working at the laundromat late at night you never know who would come walking in expecting to get paid.

l1011100
05-24-2005, 11:44 PM
I saw this on the news the other night and it scared me to death. After reading the article in the AJC it scares me even more, thats not 3 miles from where I live and have most of my accounts. One of them is right in the middle of it all. I've thought about getting a carry permit before, I think I will be applying soon. I just hope they come at me while I am in the truck, I don't think them or the vehicle would stand much chance against a 3500 dooley. We just have to watch our backs out there. And watch each others backs as well. Anyone else in the Mableton area?
Steve

andygold
05-25-2005, 12:47 AM
Just some info...In NY State, waving a gun is an arrestable charge called menacing. Don't pull a gun unless you fully intend to use it. You'll get arrested if you brandish it, and the perp calls the cops...remember, when he sees the gun, he most likely has not commited a crime YET. You spook him off, he calls the cops, you get picked up, who's watching your equipment then? If you shoot at someone who is using a vehicle against you, you will go to jail...the theory is that you might hit them, and then you have an uncontrolled vehicle traveling down the road headed towards who knows where...maybe towards some kids? Now if they are in that same vehicle and using a weapon(gun) against you, then it's a different story. Don't put "gun manufacturer's" stickers on your vehicles. You're opening yourself up to more problems....anyone on the street... for example... someone you might have cut off with your truck, calls in that you waved a Glock at them (you have a Glock sticker on your window that they noticed). You get picked up a day later for example. Even if you didn't have the gun with you the day before, a records check will show you own a Glock, and then the local cops will confiscate your gun, and your permit. Doesn't matter that you didn't have it, some moron will swear you did. You lose your permit in that fashion, and you are not going to get it back!

The old cliche, "better to judged by 12 than carried by 6", might sound good, but if the shooting cannot be justified, you're going to jail on a felony charge, which will probable carry a multi-year sentence in a state facility. Let me say that I've been involved in many, many trials over the past 18 years, and the "jury of your peers" might not always be a "jury of your peers"!!!!! If you decide that you need to use deadly physical force (every gun owner should be fully aware of their state's criminal procedue laws (CPL) in regards to "defense of justification"... in NY it's; Article 35), make sure that there is no other option available.

If you do need to use a weapon, it should be because "you feared for your life". In some states, AFAIB, you may not be able to protect property with deadly physical force (check with your local DA, law enforcement agency, criminal defense attorney).

jwalker17
12-30-2008, 02:55 PM
I used to salt/plow for a numbre of projects. I would just drive up IN MY TRUCK IN UNIFORM. and say "whats up fellas, Im going to be plowing/salting once it snows. I see most of you have kids, is there any path you want me to do for teh little ones. I have kids too..." this opens up everything, and only once I had a problem and it was all of 35 seconds before about 20 people came out to back me up!

RLC12065
12-30-2008, 09:57 PM
why would you live in an area where you need to carry a gun to feel safe? i live in area with very little crime and have never been worried about being robbed or attacked. i feel sorry for you guys who live in such primal areas of the country.

STIHL GUY
12-30-2008, 10:02 PM
as soon as im 21 i want to get a concealed cary permit

ryry278
12-30-2008, 10:15 PM
Jan 25!!!!!!!!!!! Almost here

Spartan Pride
12-30-2008, 10:43 PM
Every situation is different, but I've got to believe that you stand a better chance of surviving a gun robbery if you don't reach for yours.

Then again maybe you have to what you have to do to protect yourself. My brother just bought himself a .45. He's an Iraq vet, so I guess it comes second nature to him.

General Landscaping
12-30-2008, 10:55 PM
For those looking for a nice, tight carry piece; check out the Kel Tec PF-9.
Kel Tec PF-9 (http://www.kel-tec-cnc.com/pf9.htm)
Although I'd rather be throwing a .45ACP or 7.62X25, the 9MM is a respectable round, especially for a concealed carry.
It is double action only and has no safety other than a long, hard trigger..... so use a holster of some kind. The slide has one helluva recoil spring, so carry her ready for action.
When considering firepower,weight, size, & price (in that order) it's a tough package to beat for a dedicated CC.
BTW, price is fairly easy to swallow on this one. Don't expect to find one used, as it's a fairly new model. The P-11 would be a good second choice.

But most important of all, know the laws that you will be proving yourself innocent by. Make sure the story and evidence will get you whistling on your way from the courthouse.

Loadsmasher
12-30-2008, 11:59 PM
I believe in our southern ontario area there was only one civilian allowed to carry a concealed weapon and he was the chairman of the Toronto Transit Commision.

Is his life supposed to be more valuable than any other citizen's? Sounds like some of the left wing mindsets in some areas of our country. Luckily, not mine.:)


EDIT: Wow, I just realized how old the beginning of this thread is. It's still applicable, though.

puppypaws
12-31-2008, 12:16 AM
why would you live in an area where you need to carry a gun to feel safe? i live in area with very little crime and have never been worried about being robbed or attacked. i feel sorry for you guys who live in such primal areas of the country.

You must live in a very sparsely populated area and can consider yourself very fortunate, but this is not the ordinary.

Things will get worse in 2009, less jobs, no money, no food, got to have alcohol, cigarettes and drugs to support their habit.

People need to carry preferably a 45 for knock down power. A person on drugs shot with a smaller faster bullet can still kill or hurt you. Everyone in a business such as lawn maintenance can be isolated and made a very easy target. I will promise there will be more robberies and killings in the US in 2009 than ever in history and this will come about due to the poor economy we are facing.

Here in Charlotte, NC and the surrounding areas people have become so brazen they are committing robberies 24 hrs. a day. Yesterday a man and his wife came home from the grocery store in the middle of the day and when he stepped out of the car a black boy put a gun to his head and told him and his wife to go into the house. There were two blacks that went inside while one waited in the get away vehicle, they ransacked the entire house and took everything of any value then left the victims terrified.

This type thing will become more prevalent as the economy worsens. These perpetrators will kill you for anything they think you may have whether it is $1.00 or $1000.00, they could not care less. I will say everyone in 2009 needs to be aware of people in their immediate surroundings at all times and keep a means of protection always with you.

It only takes a split second for you to be killed or crippled and change life as you and your family know it forever. I personally would not worry about what the law thinks one way or the other, if I feel threatened by someone I would advise them to ask God to receive their soul because I am sending it to him.

I will not shoot to wound; this way I do not have to argue with him in a court room, dead men don't testify.

DuallyVette
12-31-2008, 12:34 AM
For those looking for a nice, tight carry piece; check out the Kel Tec PF-9.
Kel Tec PF-9 (http://www.kel-tec-cnc.com/pf9.htm)
.


I just bought a Kel Tec PF9. Its a great little pistol. Not the gun you'd want for target practice longevity, but you can't beat it for price & size. 9mm at the size of a .380. I also have a Glock 19 (15 round & 32 round magazines), a little Glock 36 (45acp 6+1), and a Mossburg 590 Mariner to keep me warm at night.

Several criminals have been STOPPED around here in the last couple of years. Every time you ring the bell an angle gets his wings...and the taxpayers save millions in police time, court time, jail time, and future potencial collateral damages.

Kennedy Landscaping
12-31-2008, 01:28 AM
Yeah I'm only 15 but I agree with the fact that if you pull it, you'd better shoot it. And when you shoot it, you better shoot to kill. Nothing would be worse than making them even more upset, then they may take your life. Just my 02

Spartan Pride
12-31-2008, 01:36 AM
Yeah looks like this thread got brought backup when someone posted a reply in the wrong spot. Still an interesting discussion though.

puppypaws
12-31-2008, 03:48 AM
Yeah looks like this thread got brought backup when someone posted a reply in the wrong spot. Still an interesting discussion though.

You are right and the comments are coming due to what people know we are facing in today's society. It is reverting back to the marshall law effect of the 1800's, it is sad to see it make that circle, but also a fact of life.

If everyone was trained and carried a handgun in open site, I can promise there would be less crime.

ALC-GregH
12-31-2008, 09:17 AM
If everyone was trained and carried a handgun in open site, I can promise there would be less crime.

I totally agree.

and if the government would send $100,000 stimulus checks to all of the U.S. citizens instead of bailing out big companies that will spend the money on big wig CEO's that make 10's of millions each year while the company is falling, the economy would bounce back so fast it would make your head spin! The citizen's of this country are what it will take to bail it out. The problem is, most of the people don't have the money to cover bills due to job lose, due to poor economy. If the people have the money, they'll spend it. If they spend it, someone will need to be there (more jobs) to collect the spending. I say let the "big 3" fail or at least sweat it out and give US the money to bail out the economy.

If that don't work, whip it out and shoot the bastard, LOL :D

RLC12065
12-31-2008, 09:59 AM
You must live in a very sparsely populated area and can consider yourself very fortunate, but this is not the ordinary.

Things will get worse in 2009, less jobs, no money, no food, got to have alcohol, cigarettes and drugs to support their habit.

People need to carry preferably a 45 for knock down power. A person on drugs shot with a smaller faster bullet can still kill or hurt you. Everyone in a business such as lawn maintenance can be isolated and made a very easy target. I will promise there will be more robberies and killings in the US in 2009 than ever in history and this will come about due to the poor economy we are facing.

Here in Charlotte, NC and the surrounding areas people have become so brazen they are committing robberies 24 hrs. a day. Yesterday a man and his wife came home from the grocery store in the middle of the day and when he stepped out of the car a black boy put a gun to his head and told him and his wife to go into the house. There were two blacks that went inside while one waited in the get away vehicle, they ransacked the entire house and took everything of any value then left the victims terrified.

This type thing will become more prevalent as the economy worsens. These perpetrators will kill you for anything they think you may have whether it is $1.00 or $1000.00, they could not care less. I will say everyone in 2009 needs to be aware of people in their immediate surroundings at all times and keep a means of protection always with you.

It only takes a split second for you to be killed or crippled and change life as you and your family know it forever. I personally would not worry about what the law thinks one way or the other, if I feel threatened by someone I would advise them to ask God to receive their soul because I am sending it to him.

I will not shoot to wound; this way I do not have to argue with him in a court room, dead men don't testify.

i live in a suburb of albany ny, the capital of new york state.

puppypaws
12-31-2008, 11:52 AM
i live in a suburb of albany ny, the capital of new york state.

There must be really wonderful people in your area, and I would say these are ones born and raised with family backgrounds in that location.

The problem here is we are being infiltrated by gangs and people with no family origins in the area. This is breeding the dregs of society with no thoughts of anyone but themselves. Crime is something people are starting to take as a commonplace way of life, and it is very disgusting. This is very difficult to watch as crimes descending spiral continues at a quicker pace with each passing year.

Count your blessings, where you are living is equivalent of the area I was born and raised but has changed dramatically for the worst in the last 30 years.

RLC12065
12-31-2008, 12:35 PM
well our justice system is a disgrace, we need to build more jails and house criminals for longer periods. plea bargaining a crime from 15 down to 10 and then he gets out in 7 because of overcrowding. its pathetic. i personally think we treat criminals too well, if you murder someone i think we should take your life, why pay millions to house you for life, bullets cost .05. rape, carjacking, home invasions its pathetic the light sentences these premeditated crimes get for jail terms. id rather pay higher taxes and build jails, and those serving time should do hard time, not lift weights and watch tv.

ryry278
12-31-2008, 12:45 PM
well our justice system is a disgrace, we need to build more jails and house criminals for longer periods. plea bargaining a crime from 15 down to 10 and then he gets out in 7 because of overcrowding. its pathetic. i personally think we treat criminals too well, if you murder someone i think we should take your life, why pay millions to house you for life, bullets cost .05. rape, carjacking, home invasions its pathetic the light sentences these premeditated crimes get for jail terms. id rather pay higher taxes and build jails, and those serving time should do hard time, not lift weights and watch tv.

To typical people will never understand that building more jails solves nothing. All it does is house more criminals. We cant keep everyone locked up much less afford it. Thats ridiculous. Why not invest in preventing it. Education, family, poverty. Some people have no options. And to perform the death penalty it costs more then housing them for life.. FACT! And if that was changed where you could skip all the extra trials and wait periods for appeals and the such than that sure would be scary. The gov't having the authority to kill after one trail that could be completly botched. Yea the justice system is messed up but thats not the way. It starts by bringing families back together and addressing basic human needs like food and water. And there should be a system to expunge a felony mark since we now have punished people by jail or fines and they can never get a job again. So its a cycle and we choose to ignore it or make it worse instead of looking at the true reasons by it. ANd for the record statistically crime has gone down since the 1990's.

And before everyone goes crazy i do support the death penalty and yes in 26 i will have my concealed handgun permit and i cant wait

RLC12065
12-31-2008, 01:13 PM
To typical people will never understand that building more jails solves nothing. All it does is house more criminals. We cant keep everyone locked up much less afford it. Thats ridiculous. Why not invest in preventing it. Education, family, poverty. Some people have no options. And to perform the death penalty it costs more then housing them for life.. FACT! And if that was changed where you could skip all the extra trials and wait periods for appeals and the such than that sure would be scary. The gov't having the authority to kill after one trail that could be completly botched. Yea the justice system is messed up but thats not the way. It starts by bringing families back together and addressing basic human needs like food and water. And there should be a system to expunge a felony mark since we now have punished people by jail or fines and they can never get a job again. So its a cycle and we choose to ignore it or make it worse instead of looking at the true reasons by it. ANd for the record statistically crime has gone down since the 1990's.

And before everyone goes crazy i do support the death penalty and yes in 26 i will have my concealed handgun permit and i cant wait

ryry278 i dont think its an either or thing, you need to educate people and bring famliy back also but i think we need to keep criminals off the street and jails are where we should keep criminals. re educating people will take generations and in the mean time we need to jail criminals. whats ridiculous is thinking murderers should be housed in jails for life. kill those that break the law and kill people.

ryry278
12-31-2008, 01:23 PM
Well i just know for one that i would hate to have gov'ts killing with little due process. I mean there is a reason for the process we have. We have killed many innocent people. And it does cost less to house them for life so what harm is it to you they do not get out. I agree with the problems, but i do not aggree building more and more jails are the solution and it will never be. The problem is in the society and it starts from people caring about one another. IF a felon tries to get a job its impossible so what options does he have left???

puppypaws
12-31-2008, 01:41 PM
ANd for the record statistically crime has gone down since the 1990's.



I'm not real certain how these statisticians come up with the numbers they generate, I think they are sometimes manipulated to fit their agenda.

I know in my particular area, there is not a day that goes by without robberies, shootings or a murder taking place. Maybe certain crimes have lowered the rate in some areas, but I can say without doubt hard crime is not getting better. I fully believe there will be more robberies taking place in 2009 than ever recorded in a single year no matter how they make their numbers look.

I think we all know government agencies have a tendency to make things look the way they wish the American public to believe, this is called positive propaganda generated by our government controlled media. Americans minds are easily manipulated by the media, we honestly never know the truth of anything, only what they wish us to believe.

ryry278
12-31-2008, 01:47 PM
That might be true and would agree had i not studied some of it in school. But when yall take some sociology classes and look at the national crime rates they are much lower; atleast according to numerous groups not only govt. .. Look i aint trying to start a fight, but the serious crimes. i.e. murder, rape, and those type acts have gone down. I will still carry a gun, but i will never think the answer is building more jails.

Greenleaf Lawns
12-31-2008, 02:00 PM
Being a former Sheriff's Deputy and being involved in a shooting, all I can say if you pull it, you better use it, no BS, just pull the trigger.....it's not TV....Be Safe!! :cool:

Amen

words to believe, a gun should not be used as a threat

puppypaws
12-31-2008, 05:08 PM
That might be true and would agree had i not studied some of it in school. But when yall take some sociology classes and look at the national crime rates they are much lower; atleast according to numerous groups not only govt. .. Look i aint trying to start a fight, but the serious crimes. i.e. murder, rape, and those type acts have gone down. I will still carry a gun, but i will never think the answer is building more jails.

There is no way to start a fight over something like this. You can very well be correct in the numbers seen from a national standpoint. I know that in the Charlotte, NC area they have gangs coming in like migrating fire ants and law enforcement has set up a special gang task force. There are gang members riding around picking out random people to shoot and rob, it has gotten to the point average people are afraid to be out late at night. There has been a number of children shot with a few killed in crossfire from opposing gang members.

It is really amazing it can be so peaceful to live in certain parts of the country while at the same time it is a war zone in other areas. This is really very sad, especially when these gangs are not even American for the most part.

jwalker17
12-31-2008, 07:45 PM
This jerk took public transit rates up from $1.50 to over $2.75 PER TRIP. I dont use the subway/busses, but for the less fortunate and students on their own. im surprised nobody has shot him this far. He also looks younger than me! (I'm 23 and look like im 13 lol)

DuallyVette
12-31-2008, 09:54 PM
This jerk took public transit rates up from $1.50 to over $2.75 PER TRIP. I dont use the subway/busses, but for the less fortunate and students on their own. im surprised nobody has shot him this far. He also looks younger than me! (I'm 23 and look like im 13 lol)

God (pretend god) forbid that people be responsible for paying a small portion of the cost of the transit system that they use.

ENTITLEMENT, ENTITLEMENT, ENTITLEMENT !!!

The more you enable people, the more you TEACH them to be dependent and cripple them

With all the laws protecting the rights of criminals, and all the "nice people" trying to "help" the "less fortunate" (enabler) I think this country has run this thing off into a ditch, that we can't recover from. When the Chinese repossess this country, I don't think they'll spend $2million in court costs, if they have substantial evidence against a criminal. I don't think they'll fund raising the children and grandchildren, and great grandchildren of people with the IQ of 10, or the motivation of a rock.

ryry278
12-31-2008, 10:06 PM
God (pretend god) forbid that people be responsible for paying a small portion of the cost of the transit system that they use.

ENTITLEMENT, ENTITLEMENT, ENTITLEMENT !!!

The more you enable people, the more you TEACH them to be dependent and cripple them

With all the laws protecting the rights of criminals, and all the "nice people" trying to "help" the "less fortunate" (enabler) I think this country has run this thing off into a ditch, that we can't recover from. When the Chinese repossess this country, I don't think they'll spend $2million in court costs, if they have substantial evidence against a criminal. I don't think they'll fund raising the children and grandchildren, and great grandchildren of people with the IQ of 10, or the motivation of a rock.

Wow someone likes Darwanism a little to much. How is someone trying to help other people the enabler. Thats right all the kids who are mentally challenged should just be aborted or slaughtered. Thats how the Chinesse do it. By the way hope you don't have more then one kid becuase according to chinese law if you have a son your done and you only get 2 chances for that after that they fine you or kill your baby

DuallyVette
12-31-2008, 10:29 PM
Wow someone likes Darwanism a little to much. How is someone trying to help other people the enabler. Thats right all the kids who are mentally challenged should just be aborted or slaughtered. Thats how the Chinesse do it. By the way hope you don't have more then one kid becuase according to chinese law if you have a son your done and you only get 2 chances for that after that they fine you or kill your baby

Look up "enabler"

NO NO NO. If someone is very challanged, they should be able to have all the challenged children that they want...they have a RIGHT. Couple $mil a year, taxpayer money. I'll send you my monopoly game, there plenty of money there. Go get the movie "Planet Earth". Life is a challenge. Our world was designed for survival for the fittest. This plan makes wildlife stronger and supplies a food chain for the stronger. Our society is getting weaker, fatter, and "not smarter than a 5th grader"

I think that this crashing economy may well be good for this spoiled, entitled society. Welcome to Walton's Mountian:)

ryry278
12-31-2008, 10:33 PM
Your insane. I would like to think humans deserve a chance. And i know what enabler means. I hope you have a terrible time in the economy. How can you even think those thoughts. Those people arent the ones who are ruining the human race its people like you who do not care. You think everyone has the same oppurtunities as you and bla bla bla well got news for you they don't. Not everyone is a genious everyone has diff. skills. Did you even go to college? IF you want to go on education alone you are more then likely inferior to me therefore according to you i survive you die!!!!

And if you honestly think we are not getting smarter your an idiot. Do you have any idea what students are having to learn today. I bet its 100x more you had to learn in your highschool and they learn it at 10. America might not have the best education but humans as a whole are a hell a lot smarter then they used to be.

RLC12065
12-31-2008, 10:53 PM
ive seen first hand what giving people things instead of making them earn it does. my gf is a social worker and 75% of the people on social services uses the system for their own gain. they get christmas gifts from people who donate them and they sell the gifts for money. they get low cost housing, their heat is paid for, they even get money from the government. they sell their food stamps for cash. the homeless also get better health care than what i have to pay for, free presription drugs, its pathetic. it doesnt give them any insentive to work or try in life.

DuallyVette
01-01-2009, 12:20 AM
Your insane. I would like to think humans deserve a chance. And i know what enabler means. I hope you have a terrible time in the economy. The economy has never negatively effected my business. When I see a graph when the economy was down, I usually bought a new Corvette or Dually, or both. How can you even think those thoughts. I have the ability to make rational rather than emotional decisions. I know, for a fact...that you can't spend $10,000 a week , if you only make $1000 a week. The police don't want to arrest someone that steals my $500 blower, because it costs the county much more to prosecute...see ? rational decisions. Those people aren't the ones who are ruining the human race its people like you who do not care. I'm not the one throwing $millions at problems that can't be solved, at the cost of bankrupting our whole society. You think everyone has the same oppurtunities as you and bla bla bla well got news for you they don't. I too was born naked to some hard working college educated European immigrants that foolishly left their war torn country seeking a better life to become general laborers Not everyone is a genious everyone has diff. skills. Did you even go to college? Yes. I've also known several college grads that never made more than $10 an hourIF you want to go on education alone you are more then likely inferior to me therefore according to you i survive you die!!!! Education...ie a diploma...isn't worth much until it's properly applied. The distance in survival and an opulent life leaves room for many. I was born with a small disability that would have made me the hunted in the wild...I'm ok with that.

And if you honestly think we are not getting smarter your an idiot. Do you have any idea what students are having to learn today. I bet its 100x more you had to learn in your highschool and they learn it at 10. America might not have the best education but humans as a whole are a hell a lot smarter then they used to be. There have been tremendous strives in technology in the last 10-20-30 years. Many things that were taught in college in 1972 have been disproved. None of the technology seems to be helping the people that are bankrupting this country. You can turn on the TV and see people on the "judge " shows, or Jerry Springer and see the mentality of a huge segment of the population...and you just can't fix STUPID..


Technology is great, but "COMMON SENSE IS NO LONGER COMMON"

DuallyVette
01-01-2009, 12:32 AM
ive seen first hand what giving people things instead of making them earn it does. my gf is a social worker and 75% of the people on social services uses the system for their own gain. they get christmas gifts from people who donate them and they sell the gifts for money. they get low cost housing, their heat is paid for, they even get money from the government. they sell their food stamps for cash. the homeless also get better health care than what i have to pay for, free presription drugs, its pathetic. it doesnt give them any insentive to work or try in life.

Since stores have such lenient return policies, I'll bet that lots of those free bicycles were turned into crack cocaine.

I've known people that operated a government child nutrition program, and someone working in nutrition research programs. They were VERY compassionate for the people that they were trying to work with, but they didn't have much hope in educating or positively effecting their lives.

Opra Winfrey started her school in Africa, to help educate young girls. When ask why she didn't try to help girls in Chicago, she said that they needed major attitude adjustments that would be too hard to overcome.

ryry278
01-01-2009, 01:12 PM
Whatever both of you are ignorant aZZholes. No wonder my generation has such a disctint difference in ya'll. I hope one day you never have a son who gets in a car wreck and forever has a disabillity and can't work. There is so much more then your little ignorant thoughts and its completly eye opening to how stupid people are. You put all the people into one lump even though there are just some bad apples. Thats predjudice at its purest form. But either way if you have the heart to watch a little girl not eat because her dad raped beat her and she ran away and the only thing she can do is be a prositute. You look her in the face and say you don't care. Wow this just proves how uneducated you really are. Go to school take some classes in psychology and sociology and learn all the reasons they are the way they are. Your the people that laugh at us who try and make a diff. and that is the worst. God will have his turn with you. Love in this country sure could change things, but instead we get this ignorant crap. Its more then giving money to the people who need it. Its building a relationship and making a difference by investing your life into them. WE have a very successful homeless rehab going on here that takes them out of the street gives them help with a place to stay, emotional help, life skill help and drug help while giving them a job. There is no easy answer, but if you ignore it then your just as bad as them. In fact your worse. IF you see a problem and choose to do nothing, bbut just complain, then keep your mouth shut. I hope someday you will see the truth and understand. And as far as the education let me assure you that even though your not guaranteed a job with a diploma that if me and you were to walk in and apply for a job. say the top landscape manager for the government. That they would laugh at you then look at my MASTERS and hire me over you. I would always in a real job get put above you in pay and hiring. Does that not piss you off that a 20 year old will be making more money then you. I sure hope it does because i will show everyone that giving back is the ultimate gift. ANd for your little emotional arugument clause. I almost rolled over laughing. HAHAHA man you have no idea how much i argue with almost pure fact. Take a philosophy class and you might understand what you even wrote. You have no idea your ignorant and arrogant and have no idea what your talking about. your basing all your information on your little experience that you construe to be fact??? That makes no since. I would challenge you anyday to a real debate and i would rip you to shreds on any subject in fact i will argue this point of view from your side.
And the fact that in this time of great turmoil you have the audacity to buy those nice things just shows how much of a materialistic non caring person. I mean its ok to own nice things but your the type that will never care about someone else and thats why one day i will be richer then all of you and i will personally make people like you feel inferior since thats what you like to do. You think your rick well i could buy your house in cash. Screw you who says that stuff. Good lord are people really that way. Someone needs a real wake up call. Of and for your info i live in the fast growing city in TN and 9 in the US you economy will not compare to ours give it time you will feel it. And when you cry out for help do not expect it to come.

RLC12065
01-01-2009, 01:16 PM
ryry278, get a grip dude, im all for helping those that actually need help but when 75% of the people getting government assistance are scamming the system its tough to feel sorry for people.

ryry278
01-01-2009, 01:22 PM
Really where did you get those numbers???? Show them. And even so do you just throw away everything based on that. do you go with the flow?? why help right its useless??? Thats why we are in trouble. I will make a difference and i will change things i see alot of terrible things injustices that make someone sick to the stomach yet i do not hide or look the other way i reach out and try to help and CARE!

ryry278
01-01-2009, 01:24 PM
I also do not think the gov't is the answer. Money will never solve the world's problems its love and caring for one another. You should go to a local nonprofit for one day and see the good they do everyday in the name of HOPE. ANd the reason its a uphill battle is not becuase of the people they are trying to help but the Gov't who wants to regualte them tax them, and then people like ya'll who want help in anyways or help fund anything. By the way i am the director of one here and the VP of another and i know for a fact that its people who don't care that do the most damage.

RLC12065
01-01-2009, 01:44 PM
ryry278, pay attention, i told you my gf is a social worker, she sees this FIRST HAND. i also said that people who need help should get help so wtf are you crying about? my problem is that the system allows people to scam the system and waste billions of dollars a year. too many losers whod rather bilk the system to live then get a job and work like the rest of us. you must be young. life will fill you in to reality.

ryry278
01-01-2009, 01:55 PM
I read that. MY mom works as a school physcologist at Ft. Campbell you talk about screwed up kids who need help. I agree the system needs to be fixed and it should never be about money. But to the people like Dually who just don't care is where the problems are. I personally have seen people change and have dealt with a homeless guy i tried to help smash one of my trimmers, but instead of getting pissed i realized something. There is more then somoene getting up and getting a job. REad the post about the homeless jacket in the green industry general forum i wrote it all there. Yea i am young but i sure i do not get old if thats what i will become. And i was never crying if anything i feel sorry for dually that he has such terrible thoughts. I deal with people like him everyday of my life when working with nonprofits and at somepoint they need to know what they are doing. but if you can link the problem with AMerica to the helpless then be my guess. IF anyone on here can find a single fact that because they use govt money that we are in this global economy downturn then i will stop posting on this thread.

puppypaws
01-01-2009, 06:02 PM
I read that. MY mom works as a school physcologist at Ft. Campbell you talk about screwed up kids who need help. I agree the system needs to be fixed and it should never be about money. But to the people like Dually who just don't care is where the problems are. I personally have seen people change and have dealt with a homeless guy i tried to help smash one of my trimmers, but instead of getting pissed i realized something. There is more then somoene getting up and getting a job. REad the post about the homeless jacket in the green industry general forum i wrote it all there. Yea i am young but i sure i do not get old if thats what i will become. And i was never crying if anything i feel sorry for dually that he has such terrible thoughts. I deal with people like him everyday of my life when working with nonprofits and at somepoint they need to know what they are doing. but if you can link the problem with AMerica to the helpless then be my guess. IF anyone on here can find a single fact that because they use govt money that we are in this global economy downturn then i will stop posting on this thread.

You have a good heart, don't let differences of opinion bother you. Always remember opinions are only someones thoughts on a subject, and these have extreme variances. This does not necessarily make one opinion better than another, it is only a difference of thought process.

Just remember,

Quote: God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.

I went for my basic training at Fort Campbell, so I am very familiar with where your mother is working.

ryry278
01-01-2009, 08:23 PM
Thanks for the encouraging words puppypaws.

DuallyVette
01-01-2009, 09:41 PM
To be young and not liberal, is to be heartless.
To be an adult, and still be liberal...is just ignorant.
.

Maybe, magic jesus will start making everyone whole and intellegent

ryry278
01-01-2009, 09:56 PM
For your information i am not liberal... Wow... this had nothing to do with politics either.....There is truth to what puppy paws said. I can't change your opinions and i will not step down to your level. I just really hope you never have to experince something terrible to realize the truth.

DuallyVette
01-01-2009, 11:12 PM
For your information i am not liberal... Wow... this had nothing to do with politics either.....There is truth to what puppy paws said. I can't change your opinions and i will not step down to your level. I just really hope you never have to experince something terrible to realize the truth.

What's the truth ??? Who's truth ???

I did a search and read some of your other posts on this forum. You seem to be a really nice sincere young fellow. I'm sorry that you've read my posts. I feel like I told a 5 year old, that there is no Santa Clause, or Easter Bunny.

You keep those rose colored glasses polished, and remember that everyone that doesn't consider themselves sucessful...ITS NOT THEIR FAULT. They ARE victims. If you close your eyes and click your heels together, you'll wake up back in Kansas (Wizard of OZ):) where everybody is safe.

Nobody leaves this world alive.:)

:):):):):):):):):):)I sure do smile alot!

lawnpro724
01-02-2009, 01:09 AM
Glock 23 here. Gotta love the 40cal... I got her pre ban also. 13 rounds baby!
I call her Amy because the serial # is AMY###

Pre ban doesn't matter anymore, anyone can get 15 round mags for the gun they have as long as the gun is made for it. I have a s&w 915 that came with 10 rounds mags and now I have 15 rounds mags for it. That ban expired 8 years ago when bush was elected. Thank god for gun loving Republicans. Only god knows what Obama's going to do to our gun rights and its not looking good.