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Eddie B
05-19-2005, 03:16 AM
I caught an employee stealing a trimmer at the end of the day and confronted him about it, and he decides to push me hard. I followed with a fist to his face, broke his glasses and blood was everywhere from smashing his face. He then proceeded to knock me to the ground, and I managed to push him away from me. The guy was obviously coming at me, and I had the natural reaction of punching him in the face. I guess it's self defense, he came at me first when I confronted him about the trimmer. He gave the trimmer back and left, and I didn't call the police. I probably didn't handle the situation the best way, but I don't know what else I would have done. He messed up, but he's been a good friend for about a year as well, so I didn't want to get him in too much trouble. He was my only employee at this time also. Last year I had a guy working for me and I fired him for smoking weed on the job and a week later he beat me down and got me pretty good. He also got a year in jail for assault and isn't out YET. I think I need to stay solo... I'm at the point now where I can work 6 days solo and get things done the way I need to and work my other job at the same time. Its now 3am and I just got off my other job, and my fist is still swollen pretty bad. I hope I can operate the walk-behinds later with my busted hand. This is one of many things, and with all this drama in my life I could probably make it on Jerry Springer. geez.

joeg2246
05-19-2005, 03:38 AM
I think solo might be the best way for you. Hard to tell exactly whats happening, but, you are 2 for 2 fighting with employees so the odds are it would happen again. Good luck!
PS: I would have been pissed too if the guy was stealing from me. The weed is definatly wrong if the guy was running your equipment.

ADLAWNCUTTERS
05-19-2005, 04:16 AM
it's sounds like you need to find better friends / employees.keep trying to find a good one . i hope you feel better

Tharrell
05-19-2005, 05:20 AM
That could have been me. I tend to confront people in a way that puts them in a corner, I'm aware of it and trying to be more rational. I think part of my problem is my type A personality. I don't know all of the facts in your situation but, from what you said I think you put them in a corner.
When I was an exterminator, I learned not to corner a rat. They will come at you and they can jump 3 feet high and 3 feet forward. That puts them right at the crotch. Hope all works out for you.

BRIMOW525
05-19-2005, 06:48 AM
Sorry to hear dude. I have a guy who gets "smoked up" every once and a while, ( I DON"T!) and as long as he doesn't bring it to work or is high at work, It doesn't really bother me. Actually he's not doing it as much anymore either. ( He's starting to realize how much $$ is wasted) Fist fights and drugs aren't good. Sounds like you either need to stay solo or get a high school kid for the summer. Good luck!

surfisher211
05-19-2005, 07:56 AM
I think u handled it OK ! he is stealing your stuff then do what u have too thats your bread and butter and food in your kids mouth ! if i caught some one stealing my stuff i think i would lose it and break there arms! good luck

pagefault
05-19-2005, 08:40 AM
I like Teddy Roosevelt's Big Stick Diplomacy. He said "Speak softly and carry a big stick, and you will go far."

I haven't had a fight since I was 20. I've learned how to confront people in a way that let's them know that I'm not looking for trouble, but I'm not someone they want to tangle with.

I even worked for a couple of years as a bouncer in a college town and a couple of years as a bartender at a hole in the wall redneck rancher bar, with not one fight. There were more than a few times that I had to break up fights and there were more then a few times that I had to physically move people out the door, but no fights.

You don't want to corner people when you confront them. You want to give them a way out and let them know that the way out that you are giving them is FAR more desirable than the alternative.

Eddie B
05-19-2005, 08:48 AM
He just gave me a call and left a message, he's still in the hospital with a concussion. He said I "over-stepped my boundaries" with him. He stole from me and pushed me, simple as that. I even have a witness (a customer, how great!) My fist is still swollen quite a bit. What should I do, keep pressure on it? Ice doesn't seem to be helping much. I don't like hospitals.

MOW ED
05-19-2005, 09:07 AM
I would have followed up with a police report just to cover your behind. You have a witness but you should get it documented asap. If the goof presses charges on you or trys to recover hospital costs or worse yet comes back after you at a later date, you have it documented with the people that can help you.
From the way you put it, it sounded like self defense to me. The witness really is a plus for you. You have to protect yourself. Don't feel bad about going to the police, it wasn't a thought until he stole from you then assaulted you. He made the choice, protect yourself.

6'7 330
05-19-2005, 09:13 AM
In all the years i was in business,never had an employee attack me .Had a few steal things and get caught but they didnt try anything physical.

kc2006
05-19-2005, 09:47 AM
I would have called the cops right away because guess who's going to? Him. Your his employer, and an employer putting a beating on his employee isn't going to look good. You know he's going to make some stupid story up. I'd call the popo and file something against him before he does.

Gravely_Man
05-19-2005, 10:34 AM
The the police involved now! Hopefully you don't have to press charges unless you want to but you need statements to be taken. Best of luck to you.


Gravely_Man

Dashunde
05-19-2005, 11:05 AM
In all the years i was in business,never had an employee attack me .Had a few steal things and get caught but they didnt try anything physical.

If, as your name implies, your 6 foot 7" & 330lbs, you shouldnt be too bewildered about not being attacked. duh! :-)

RKISTNER1
05-19-2005, 11:24 AM
Get a police report A.S.A.P.! Before he does.

PhrankW
05-19-2005, 11:44 AM
Personally, I think you could be in big trouble. Legally speaking, you can't use more force than necessary. If you catch him stealing you call the police, period. Handling theft is their job, not yours.

If he pushes you then all you can do is push him back. You can NEVER hit unless you've been hit. You, as a professional and as an adult, should always look for an out.

Now this guy can file charges against you, have you arrested, can sue you, and will probably win. Not only did you fight in front of a customer but now you could end up being arrested in front of another customer. Neither looks very professional and both give your business a black eye (no pun intended).

It would be very wise for you to contact the police now and get a report on file with your witness. I would also contact a good attorney.

Next time this happens, fire the guy, call the police, and have him arrested. You asked for opinions, that's mine. Good luck.

Eddie B
05-19-2005, 12:00 PM
Personally, I think you could be in big trouble. Legally speaking, you can't use more force than necessary. If you catch him stealing you call the police, period. Handling theft is their job, not yours.

If he pushes you then all you can do is push him back. You can NEVER hit unless you've been hit. You, as a professional and as an adult, should always look for an out.

Now this guy can file charges against you, have you arrested, can sue you, and will probably win. Not only did you fight in front of a customer but now you could end up being arrested in front of another customer. Neither looks very professional and both give your business a black eye (no pun intended).

It would be very wise for you to contact the police now and get a report on file with your witness. I would also contact a good attorney.

Next time this happens, fire the guy, call the police, and have him arrested. You asked for opinions, that's mine. Good luck.


I don't recall asking for an opinion, but thanks, you are absolutely right. I took the whole thing on sort of a personal friendship level instead of a professional business one. The guy has thrown me a million apologies and admits to his wrong-doing. I doubt any legal actions will be taken over this matter, and I do have an attourney handy if need-be.

sheshovel
05-19-2005, 12:10 PM
Still get a police report,put ice on the hand and get to the Dr. and have it x-rayed befor 24 hours are past.If it is broken wrong of has a hairline fracture,it could heal wrong and be permanently damaged the rest of your life.Plus you will have a record of it for insurance reasons.But even if you are not covered by insurance.Get ice on it and get to a DR. NOW..!SheShovel says so..you don't want me to have to come all the way there and make you do you??LOLLOL

PhrankW
05-19-2005, 12:14 PM
If you post then it's only safe to assume you're asking for opinions. Why else would you post? If you weren't posting for feedback and opinions then the only other reason would be to brag. Again, I'm assuming you wouldn't be bragging, right? I'm sorry if I missunderstood by giving my opinion but it does appear you're cool with it.

If you took it on a friend level then why'd you hit him? Friends don't hit friends. Another good word of advice, NEVER hire a friend or a relative. It will almost always come back to bite you. Sure, there are some out there that have had luck doing so, but for the most part it's always a no no.

I would be very cautious if this friend is still in the hospital and calling you telling you that you stepped over your bounds. You've got the attorney, now call the cops. Best of luck to you. :)

ztoro
05-19-2005, 12:21 PM
Personally, I think you could be in big trouble. Legally speaking, you can't use more force than necessary. If you catch him stealing you call the police, period. Handling theft is their job, not yours.

If he pushes you then all you can do is push him back. You can NEVER hit unless you've been hit. You, as a professional and as an adult, should always look for an out.

Now this guy can file charges against you, have you arrested, can sue you, and will probably win. Not only did you fight in front of a customer but now you could end up being arrested in front of another customer. Neither looks very professional and both give your business a black eye (no pun intended).

It would be very wise for you to contact the police now and get a report on file with your witness. I would also contact a good attorney.

Next time this happens, fire the guy, call the police, and have him arrested. You asked for opinions, that's mine. Good luck.


Wrong hombre.... If someone pushes you in a threatening manor you have been assaulted.... you can defend yourself in the manor you see fit.... You never know what this individual is carrying... if you wait for him to assault you again it could be to late...

I cop will arrest you for assault if you touch his uniform in a unfriendly way....

I would get a police report....... regardless.

PhrankW
05-19-2005, 12:43 PM
Legally speaking Ztoro:
"There are two types of assault: aggravated and simple. Aggravated assault is an unlawful attack on another person for the purpose of causing severe physical injury. It is usually called aggravated when it includes use of a weapon or some other means that could cause death or serious physical harm to the victim. A person can be convicted of aggravated assault even if the victim was not physically harmed. Simple assault is the attempt or threat to inflict less serious physical injury without a weapon.

--from Criminal Victimization in the United States 2000. Washington, DC: Bureau of Justice Statistics, 2001"

A push may be simple assualt (I doubt it) but a hit to the face causing a person to go to the hospital for a consussion is now aggravated assault.

A push does not warrent a hit in any court. By your arguement, if you push me then I can shoot you, right? Nope. If the guy is working for you and is a friend then any jury would assume you would have a pretty good idea what the guy is carrying.

Again, if he steals from you then all you can do is calls the cops and fire him. You can't hit him. Show me a boss who hits his employees and I'll show you a business that will soon be under new ownership.

I will agree with you though, call the police. They should have already been called.

Remsen1
05-19-2005, 02:07 PM
[QUOTE=PhrankW]Personally, I think you could be in big trouble. Legally speaking, you can't use more force than necessary. If you catch him stealing you call the police, period. Handling theft is their job, not yours.

If he pushes you then all you can do is push him back. You can NEVER hit unless you've been hit. YQUOTE]

What law school did you go to? There is no law that says you can't stop somebody from stealing your stuff. Let the theif take it, then call the cops? HUH? Possession is 90% of the law, unless you can dig up a bill of sale, then the theif could say the trimmer belongs to him.

If he pushes you then all you can do is push back? What law book is this in? I think you are confusing LAW with "the golden rule".

I'm not saying that this guy is in the clear, but what you are saying doesn't make one darn bit of sense.

ztoro
05-19-2005, 02:15 PM
This is a thief! YOu caught him stealing..... Its not an innocent person minding his own business....

If you are pushed trip over a curb and bang your head and go into a coma, is that considered simple assault? then say you die.... do you think you walk free because you were just pushing someone...
Point is no one has the right to lay a hand on anyone in a simple or aggrevated manor.... ????


If it goes to court(which i doubt it would) the judge is not going to overlook that the thief was stealing from Bailey's business and then a thief pushed the "witness to the crime"..... attempted to inflict fear into the witness... strong arming someone...



Truth is when varments are cornered they attack... Bailey was wise not to wait for the thiefs next move... Neither would I .......

This guy wasnt looking for a pushing match, he was caught in a crime and in fear of what would happen to him if legal action was taken....

PhrankW
05-19-2005, 02:31 PM
I didn't go to law school to learn this. I learned this in my Texas Concelled Hand Gun class. You can't use more force on someone than they use on you or you can be held liable in a court of law. I can shoot you and be in the right but you can sue me for it and win. It happens every day.

We live in a world of people who sue for little to no reason. Anytime you're going to take matters in your own hand you must ask yourself, "Is it worth it?" Is a weed-eater worth going to court over? Is a weed-eater worth getting sued over? Is a weed-eater worth losing a hunk of money over?

If you answer yes to these questions then that must be a really nice weed-eater. If the guy tries to steal it, fire him and call the cops. Have him arrested for theft, but you have no right to hit him in the face hard enough to put him in the hospital with a concussion. We're talking about a weed-eater Remsen. What doesn't make sense about this to you? Maybe it will help to do some math. Let's assume you paid $300 for this weed-eater the guy "tried" to steal.

1. You'll be arrested and you'll have to pay a fee of $1,000 - $10,000 for bail to get out of jail for assualt.
2. You'll have to hire an attorney. If it's a cheap one you'll pay $5,000.
3. You'll have to take off a day for court. How much does this cost you?
4. You'll be out his medical bills. This could easily be $5,000.
5. Court costs $100 and this is just a guess.
6. Pain & suffering because this nut will say he's been in a bunch of pain. This could be an addtional $5,000.
7. The court will ask you if you still have the weed-eater? Yes you do, so you didn't lose it then, did you?

So now you must weigh it out yourself. Your total amount due is well over $20,000. For this amount of money you could have bought 67 of these weed-eaters. Add to that, you still have the one that the nut tried to take so you now could have 68 weed-eaters.

To call the cops and fire the guy is free. To hit the guy because he pushed you is $20,000. I'm not trying to be a jerk about this. Assualt is very serious, expecically for a small business owner vs. an employee. Think about it. It's a only dang weed-eater.

Charles
05-19-2005, 02:35 PM
Back to lawncare. This has gone OT and turned into just an argument about law with no lawyers involved--so far