Saturation - w/ escort

[Greenkeepers]

Hey all-<p>This is on the line w/ Charles saturation post. Yesterday I was going down the road in the truck dropping off some mulch and what did I see? A husband/wife team and dog. Yes I said dog in the back seat of their 1987 escort. The dog was sharing the back seat with a gas can and the 21&quot; Craftsmen mower and weedeater were hanging out of the trunk!<br>These type of &quot;businesses&quot; (I'm being nice calling them businesses). are what are killing us who are really into it. I'm only part time but I run my business like it is my life because in a couple of years it will be. I don't lo-ball anyone because it just drives the whole market down, and I have my standards of where I need to be on a job to make money on it. If I can't hit my limit then I walk away from the job. <br>I agree that you have to start somewhere, but if you can't afford a s-10 with a 4x8 trailer then they should reconsider business. Also, they need to think about the people who are relying on this business to support their families and to live. <br>To them they are making a fortune at $20 for a $32-$35 lawn when they don't have any overhead. And this is why we have everyone telling us that I can get it done for $15 when we bid $30, It just ticks me off. <br>Sorry for rambling here but Charles post just got me going and thinking. No matter how busy we are, if we didn't have &quot;lo-ballers&quot; out there maybe we could charge what the lawn is worth and not bust our ass of some of the lawns just to bread even or have a 7-10% profit. It's just not worth it.<p>Just my opinion-<br>Mike<br>Greenkeepers

[Charles]

You know I agree GreensKeepers. What are homeowners thinking. Some of these fly by nite cutters could have just been let out of prison. Some may be unstable mental patients. No references are checked. Just give them the cheapest price. They let these grass cutters around their children and they can case their homes and their comings and goings. How many times have you seen on the news. Employees robbing, raping, murdering, stealing, cheating, from and to their employers. I see the headline all the time. Handyman &quot;robs rapes elderly woman&quot; or family&quot; People you wouldnt normally talk to on the streets you let near your family and cut your grass just to save a buck. Employee robs store owner and kills him. Most of the time crime is commited against you by people you think you know. Just one good reason to hire a reputable company.

[Keith]

Hey, this is how I started. Not everyone can go out and buy new walk behinds, a truck and trailer. You have to have some money to make some money unless someone just contributes a few thousands bucks to your business (aka relatives). You are right, some of these guys are fly by night mow and gones. Some are not. <p>How much of a threat is a guy in an Escort with a 21&quot; mower. They are getting the lawns you don't want anyway, I know because I had this crap in 1987. The only people who hire them are price shoppers. Just keep an eye on them, make sure they don't come after your current customers.<br>

[MRPLOW]

Hey don't be so down on them, just worry about yourself and not knocking the competion. If they are just amateurs you hopefully do a much better job on the lawn then them, if not well then you are in trouble.

[lakegastonla]

Oh, that whole &quot;you have to have money to make money&quot; is a MONDO load of crap! That is just an excuse. All you have to have is a little CREDIT and the banks will cut you a check with a smile. That's how I started out! I had nothing to work with before I went to the bank. <br> And, if your credit is bad, then you would probably not make it in business anyway. Bad credit is a sure fire sign of poor bookkeeping and payment practices, and a pretty good indication that the business would flop anyway.<br> Everyone has a clean slate until they screw it up! Bad credit? Your fault.............NEXT!!!!!<br>

[Scraper]

Lakegastonla: I Second THAT!! You hit it dead on!

[Toroguy]

I think the Lawn Food chain (Quoting Stone) starts like this...<p>Kid next door mows a few yards for gumball money.<p>Older kid next door mows 10 yards to fund a stereo for car.<p>The couple in Escort mow thirty lawns until mower fails....<p>They then purchase better mower or fail.<p>The couple invest in a truck and walk behind Toro with a trailer, raise their prices.<p>They hire that kid with the stereo, his mower broke as well. They get insurance, pay their taxes.<p>Ten years later they advertise their International Lawn company during the Super Bowl halftime (Vikings win, Randy Moss becomes Governor).<p>

[Charles]

I wasn't knocking new people as a whole. I was talking about new people who start a business without any idea of what to charge. Who haven't done any research into the type of business their going into. And the people who have been in business for along time and never go up on their prices to at least keep up with inflation. And lawn people who drop prices considerably just to steal work away from others. I don't give a s**t if I offend these type of lawn cutters.

[Gus]

I started out with no trailer and very cheesy equipment,but I always did the best job possible within the limitations of my equipment. This whole &quot;makes us look bad&quot; thing is a crock!! Only you can make you look bad and the loballers and hacks are a boon to my business. I get at least 10 new customers a year because of thse guys poor business habits. Face it guys, there`s more lawns out there than you will ever be able to handle and a practically unlimited supply of new customers. How well you do is based on your savy and work ethic not what the competition is doing.<p>----------<br>gus....<br>

[Keith]

lakegastonla,<p>Try getting a loan from a bank when you have no credit history whatsoever. They are more likely to give someone with glitches on the credit a loan than someone with no history. <p>I tried to buy a Walker years ago with a 50% down payment and was turned down because of lack of credit history....that's reality :( Some of these guys are young and are in the same boat, or they made some mistakes and have bad credit...so what. They don't deserve a chance? I would much rather see a guy with a 21&quot; mower working his ass off to get his own equipment and get ahead than some punk with rich parents forking over $30,000 to start a lawn business.<br>

[scottt]

Not everyone can start out big. I have tried to get a loan before to get a trailer and larger mower, but until this past year no one has given me a loan. I will just now be able to purchase the equipment I really want. Just to let you know, a lot of those scum of the industry do a better job than the professionals. I have yet to see anyone do a better job on a yard around my area than I have. Don't be so stereotypical about the little guys.

[jrblawncare]

Yes,we all have too start somewhere and did,but these guys that are charging 15.00 for a 30.00 cuts are killing me here.At least charge somewhere close to what the job is worth...It will be better for all of us!! <p>----------<br>John <br>

[Gus]

I can understand the frustration of dealing with loballers and I used to take it personally. I tell people that get such low estimates to go with the guy but remember the caveat &quot;you get what you pay for&quot; and I move on. You might think that these guys are hurting you but believe me the customers that you want to have are aware of what things cost and are willing to pay for good work delivered promptly and professionally. People who base their decisions based only on price are usually the pain in the butt customers we donn`t want.<p>----------<br>gus....<br>

[MOW ED]

Its an open shop. I'm not gonna looking for a big Union vs non Union discussion but our business is and will always be an open shop. There is no apprenticeship for what we do so people do the best they know how. This forum is the closest thing to a lawn industry training program that I have seen.<br>There are those of us that started with small stuff and got big and those of us that had money and started big. Then there are those people that afford others the opportunity to get big. <br>Its America - opportunity. Either you take advantage of it and learn to succeed or you sit back and watch others do it. I'm not sitting. The lowballers will wash away. Its not possible to do good unless you grow and learn how to succeed. Good Luck.<br>

[lawnworker]

Can the dog weedtrim any good?

[southside]

You pay peanuts,you get monkeys.<br>I often get under cut by some dickhead on<br>a 30 year old Massey Ferguson who charges <br>$25p/h to my $45p/h and people wonder why<br>he works in the bottom of his gearbox all the<br>time.I charge higher rates but get through <br>the job at the speed of a thousand raped apes.These people will always be coming out<br>of the wood work.I certainly won't cry<br>myself to sleep about it.<p>Karl<br>

[Bobby]

Hey Guys, yes we all have to start somewhere.Do you new guys know that the average price for a lawn has'nt gone up in ten years. If it wasnt for new equipment being much more effecient, we would all be in trouble. Ive been cutting for 20 years and im not going to get rich at it. In this buiseness, the reality is, for those of you who survive the first few tough years, you will probably just make a decient lving at it.How dose a ten year flat market sound to you? Low prices today will effect you in three years when you find yourself making a lot less than you could be. And if your not the quality guy, you will have no basis for charging more. I'm not doging anybody,this is just what i've found to be true. <p>----------<br>Bobby <br>Ft Lauderdale

[Greenkeepers]

Hey guys-<p>I started out borrowing my dads truck on weekends. That wasn't the point that I was trying to make. My problem is that everyone comes out uneducated on what the going price is and that's why prices havn't increased. I'm not saying we should be charging $100 bucks for a half an acre but we should be able to get more that $15 (all areas are differerent). <br>

[mattingly]

I think what most are trying to say is that it is understandable to loball if it is only five bucks or so. Say 25 for the lot as oppossed to 30. But when people are dropping by 10 to 15 dollars it hurts. Somebody mentioned earlier on other posts that some of us should do like the big chain stores and lower our prices and force all the competition out of business and then raise the prices. Unfortunately this can't be done in a low start up business like this. The best way I have found to outcompete the competition, or at least the little guy, is to offer every service under the sun. I can do almost anything short of building a house. You get the picture. Many of my current customers like me because I am a one stop shop. So what if I charge a little higher than someone else. I am educated and know what I am doing. I am reliable and they only have to cut one check. They only have to contact one person if something hasn't been done or needs to be done. Fighting off the little, or cheap guys will always be a way of life. There is so much more room in the industry for landscapers and there is so much more money per time and account. I figure one account mowing will get me near 1000 dollars gross. Well I did two sod jobs in two days that got me 1600 and 1200. Do the math. Improve yourself and improve your odds to make money. Creativity and ingenuity are what makes people successful. If you continue to do new things, market new ways, figure out ways to lower overhead, and build your team, there is no way that guy in the escort can beat you(other than your scraps). Now the way that that guy will beat you is if you aren't creative and he is. Soon he will be on your heels and taking your work. The term he is used generically.<br>I am willing to bet this forum has already given you ways to get ahead of the competition. It has me. Thanks for everyone's input.<p>----------<br>Integrated Landscape Solutions<br>Lexington, KY

[Greenkeepers]

Mattingly-<p>Very well said!! And thanks for the input all, I just want'ed to toss this one out there to be thought over !!!<p>Thanks again