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Lawn Sharks
05-24-2005, 05:28 PM
I have a 2 cycle Toro mower that takes a 32:1 ratio.

I have Echo backpack blower, trimmer and edger that are 50:1.

I have always run 32:1 in all of them.

Can I expect any major problems with the Echo gear other than cleaning plugs and exhaust ports more often?

I seem to remember someone saying it was fine but I was filling the jugs today and just thought I would ask to be sure.

They seem to start and run fine. Well the trimmer is a bit old and cranky but a new SRM-230 is coming soon I think.

Lawn Masters
05-24-2005, 05:58 PM
I know there wont be any major problems with using 32:1 in all your 2 stroke machines, I use 32:1 or 40: in everything. I've never experienced any kind of problems.

partstree
05-24-2005, 06:57 PM
i can vouch for oldsaw-addict, you can run 32:1 for a while, but it'll eventually start to run dirty. you should go ahead and switch back to 50:1 otherwise you might find that'll start to lose power, your next maintenance period will require a serious cleaning. nothing serious, just real dirty and a fouled spark plug.

rockytopp
05-26-2005, 12:36 AM
Have fun with your thirty two mix. I have run this in all of mine and also add some carb and injector cleaner to the mixed can, done this for years, Never had one blow up nor plug a muffler, have had to change plugs, I never clean a plug, just replace. once in the while I will get a little sloppy and it may get close to thirty five or forty. :)

Lawn Sharks
06-05-2005, 05:01 AM
Thanks to all for the confirmation. I feel better now. :cool2:

Bitter
06-05-2005, 07:04 PM
you'll be running rich since the oil displaces oxygen...well that the simple explanation. the long one is that the dissolved oil changes how the fuel atomizes and vaporizes and mixes with the air. the more oil the poorer it mixes with the air. i usually mix to as close as possible the recomended ratio and then add a few extra drops to make up for what sticks to the spoon. im kind of anal about my oil/fuel mix and i use 32 oz bottles for the 32:1. 2 table spoons is 1 oz.

CincyWolf
06-08-2005, 11:24 PM
Actually if you run a more concentrated (Lower ratio) oil to gas you will be leaning out the air/fuel mixture. The oil displaces the fuel (gas) so you have less gas per volume of air. Most people get this confused and until you think about it, it is counterintuitive because everyone knows that too much oil in the fuel mix can foul plugs and run dirty - must be running rich - right???

Most people say this is running rich but actually the engine will be running lean. Your power will suffer and worst case you could run too lean and overheat.

It is best to always run the pre-mix ratio specified by the oil manufacturer since each formulation has different characteristics. If the engine was tuned properly with a premium 50:1 mix and now you run a 32:1 mix you will be giving up some performance.

Dirt bike tuners need to adjust jetting to match track conditions, humidity, temperature and altitude. Changing jets can be a pain in the butt so some times the fine tuning can be done with the oil/gas fuel mixture. Of course we are talking very small adjustments in this case.

Here is a good web site that can help explain this if you are interested. It is long but full of very good explanations.

http://www.eric-gorr.com/tech/carb1.html

Oldtimer
06-09-2005, 08:19 PM
Don't run <50:1 in today's 2 stroke engines.

Lawn Sharks
06-09-2005, 08:38 PM
Well, I guess this is a moot point now as it looks like I might sell that Toro that is 32:1 and only have 50:1 equipment left. Next fill up of the jugs will be 50:1 even though the math is harder! :D

Bitter
06-09-2005, 10:17 PM
Well, I guess this is a moot point now as it looks like I might sell that Toro that is 32:1 and only have 50:1 equipment left. Next fill up of the jugs will be 50:1 even though the math is harder! :D
2 shot glasses of oil per gallon i think. or was it 1.5....or one. i forgot. but i use a metered shotglass to do my mixes.

Lawn Sharks
06-09-2005, 10:21 PM
2.58 ounces per gallon for a 50:1 mix. Easy enough. With a calculator :dizzy: :dizzy: :dizzy:

Lawn Sharks
06-09-2005, 10:31 PM
Oops. 2.56 is what I meant to type.

Bitter
06-10-2005, 10:17 AM
ok, so about 2.5 shot glasses per gallon then :)

yungman
11-22-2007, 02:03 PM
I am not sure I can agree to the claim of mixing 32:1 ratio will make a noticable difference on leaning out the gas compare with 50:1. Just by simple approximation calculation, 50:1 is mixing 50 oz gas with 1 oz of oil. The gas ratio is 50 oz /51 oz =0.98 or 98%. For 32:1 ratio, mixing 32 oz of gas with 1 oz of gas give 32/33=0.97 or 97%. The difference is 1%!!!! I think just by running your engine at different hight from sea level will effect the air fuel mixture more.
I am not expert on this subject, but things have to make sense. There might be other reasons not to use more oil, I just find it hard to believe a little bit of oil that change 1% of the ratio will make the gas to be so lean that will affect the running temperature. Changing temperature 1 to 2 degree out of 200 deg is not going to make that big a difference.
I don't mean not disrespect and to start an argument. Disagreement does not mean insult, I am sure I am not 100% right. If I know it all, I won't be writing on this. My intension is to exchange ideas and I hope I don't get into heated arguments like what I see in this forum. I think there are a lot can be learn from this forum as long as we can do it in a friendly way.

If someone have analytical data running in a tightly control enviroment, running the exact same engine back to back at the same outside air temperature and measure the cylinder temp. Please give us the result, we can learn from this. If the difference is over 5 degree, I would change my mind and take my words back.

Here is one web link that test different oil. This is a good example of what I am talking about a controlled test. If anyone have similar test, please share with us. Test has to be control this tight to draw conclusion.

www.geistware.com/rcmodeling/articles/oil_test/index.htm

johnp900
11-23-2007, 10:40 AM
The main thing is that the Toro is spinning at 3600r rpms & the Echo is spinning at 11,000 rpms. Better to give the Echo the correct mix. Use the Echo brand mix at 50-1 & it will work for both applications.

Oldtimer
11-23-2007, 12:19 PM
We run everything on 50:1. This includes all 2 & 4 stroke gas powered equipment that comes into our service department and every piece of new equipment we sell.

There is actually 1 exception. The Tecumseh engines used on hover mowers use 32:1. I didn't believe the decals, proved myself wrong and bought an engine.

The 50:1 mix works just fine in all other OPE engines.


Oldtimer
Too soon old, too late smart!

Grass Happens
11-23-2007, 02:02 PM
I always just use those multi-mixes. Opti-, tanaka, stens, alco, i have used them all, and have never had any problems. My freinds lawnmower shop has also used them for the last 5 years, and has never had a problem. Just make sure they have the ed-g+ smokless caption on them. I guess i might be a little learly using those on the four-mix style engines, but I'm a little leary of the four-mix engines any which way.

IA_James
11-23-2007, 06:15 PM
I am not sure I can agree to the claim of mixing 32:1 ratio will make a noticable difference on leaning out the gas compare with 50:1. Just by simple approximation calculation, 50:1 is mixing 50 oz gas with 1 oz of oil. The gas ratio is 50 oz /51 oz =0.98 or 98%. For 32:1 ratio, mixing 32 oz of gas with 1 oz of gas give 32/33=0.97 or 97%. The difference is 1%!!!! I think just by running your engine at different hight from sea level will effect the air fuel mixture more.
I am not expert on this subject, but things have to make sense. There might be other reasons not to use more oil, I just find it hard to believe a little bit of oil that change 1% of the ratio will make the gas to be so lean that will affect the running temperature. Changing temperature 1 to 2 degree out of 200 deg is not going to make that big a difference.
I don't mean not disrespect and to start an argument. Disagreement does not mean insult, I am sure I am not 100% right. If I know it all, I won't be writing on this. My intension is to exchange ideas and I hope I don't get into heated arguments like what I see in this forum. I think there are a lot can be learn from this forum as long as we can do it in a friendly way.

If someone have analytical data running in a tightly control enviroment, running the exact same engine back to back at the same outside air temperature and measure the cylinder temp. Please give us the result, we can learn from this. If the difference is over 5 degree, I would change my mind and take my words back.

Here is one web link that test different oil. This is a good example of what I am talking about a controlled test. If anyone have similar test, please share with us. Test has to be control this tight to draw conclusion.

www.geistware.com/rcmodeling/articles/oil_test/index.htm

I think you might have used the wrong formula for measuring different fuel/oil mix ratios there. I belive it would be a 56% difference, not 1%. A 50/1 mix will contain 156% as much gasoline, with the same amount of oil, as a 32/1 mix.

scottr 2006
11-23-2007, 07:26 PM
I am not sure I can agree to the claim of mixing 32:1 ratio will make a noticable difference on leaning out the gas compare with 50:1. Just by simple approximation calculation, 50:1 is mixing 50 oz gas with 1 oz of oil. The gas ratio is 50 oz /51 oz =0.98 or 98%. For 32:1 ratio, mixing 32 oz of gas with 1 oz of gas give 32/33=0.97 or 97%. The difference is 1%!!!! I think just by running your engine at different hight from sea level will effect the air fuel mixture more.
I am not expert on this subject, but things have to make sense. There might be other reasons not to use more oil, I just find it hard to believe a little bit of oil that change 1% of the ratio will make the gas to be so lean that will affect the running temperature. Changing temperature 1 to 2 degree out of 200 deg is not going to make that big a difference.
I don't mean not disrespect and to start an argument. Disagreement does not mean insult, I am sure I am not 100% right. If I know it all, I won't be writing on this. My intension is to exchange ideas and I hope I don't get into heated arguments like what I see in this forum. I think there are a lot can be learn from this forum as long as we can do it in a friendly way.

If someone have analytical data running in a tightly control enviroment, running the exact same engine back to back at the same outside air temperature and measure the cylinder temp. Please give us the result, we can learn from this. If the difference is over 5 degree, I would change my mind and take my words back.

Here is one web link that test different oil. This is a good example of what I am talking about a controlled test. If anyone have similar test, please share with us. Test has to be control this tight to draw conclusion.

www.geistware.com/rcmodeling/articles/oil_test/index.htm

Yungman , here's a thread from a few years back that you might find interesting . http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=6222 Scott

yungman
11-24-2007, 03:00 PM
Hi Scottr 2006
THanks for the link you sent, I spend the whole evening reading that and I actually join their forum and keep on the discussion. After reading the whole thing, I believe the observation is valid but even those people cannot make any conclusion.

Difference of gas concentration between 32:1 and 50:1 is only 1% I don’t believe this will affect the air fuel ratio enough to see this big a different in temperature.

But if you are looking at oil concentration, then it is a big difference. For 32:1, this is approx 32 oz gas to 1 oz oil, that is 1.56 oz of oil in 50 oz of gas. 50:1 is 50 oz to 1 oz of oil. The oil concentration is big difference between the two given the same volume of gas.

This is a complicated issue, it take tight control experiments to get useful data.

Have a nice day.

scottr 2006
11-24-2007, 06:00 PM
Hi Scottr 2006
THanks for the link you sent, I spend the whole evening reading that and I actually join their forum and keep on the discussion. After reading the whole thing, I believe the observation is valid but even those people cannot make any conclusion.

Difference of gas concentration between 32:1 and 50:1 is only 1% I donít believe this will affect the air fuel ratio enough to see this big a different in temperature.

But if you are looking at oil concentration, then it is a big difference. For 32:1, this is approx 32 oz gas to 1 oz oil, that is 1.56 oz of oil in 50 oz of gas. 50:1 is 50 oz to 1 oz of oil. The oil concentration is big difference between the two given the same volume of gas.

This is a complicated issue, it take tight control experiments to get useful data.

Have a nice day.

You're welcome , then I'd guess that you'll also enjoy this old thread about fuel oil ratio . http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=2870