Customer is wanting to wait

[JRAZ]

I just finsihed up a nice project for a customer. A great piece of work. New pavers installed, flagstone installed, and a whole new irrigation system. I called just a moment ago to say hey we are finished I would like to show you the sprinkler system and how it all works. They say can we do it when we get back? I say sure, where ya going. They will be gone for one week. So I say, well since you are going to be gone can I drop off the final bill to you and get payment since balance due upon completion per contract. Client says they want to wait till they get back to make sure they are happy with everything. I remind them of the agreement and that I paid for all the labor, supplies etc already. I told them this will hurt my cash flow blah blah. They say that is what happens with business sometimes. I kept my cool b/c at that point I wanted to say no thanks for a lesson on that. With the big balance that is due I don't want to have to wait any longer to get paid so I am (for now gonna) going to have to play along with their game. It is all my fault I should have been able to weed this person out from the beginning.

I HATE getting jerked around over money. HATE IT! If I don't get paid as soon as they get back I will start the lein process.

If anyone has any words they care to share or similar stories please feel free. I needed to vent.

[Drew Gemma]

yeah 2 years ago went to a lawyer put all finnacial stuff aon all forms. so now when I have to go to court I win. It has happened and I am sure it will again. BUt I win even if I have to pay to win lawyer charges 220 an hour ouch. make a dollar a min. petty cash!

[Lnd Svyr]

You DID get at least enough up front to cover materials and some labor, right? Big jobs we always get 50% up front--or we just don't do it. I'd rather NOT work than work for free, any day.

Trouble with judgments, according to my bro-in-law, is you can easily win--collecting is the hard part. You may get a lien but if the deadbeat isn't moving or refinancing you'll still never get paid. Also, I'm told the lien has to be constatntly updated (don't know about that one).

If you're doing big hardscape jobs you definitely need to use contracts. Our contracts for big jobs are usually 3 or 4 pages, then there's the 4 pages of General Conditions (real lawyer garbage) we tack on. To be honest, due to the wierd nature of clients and the human thinking process, we spend more time saying what we will NOT do than what we will do. Go figure!

[Charles]

Be patient and give them a benefit of a doubt before you start to panic. I know easier said than done. I am the same way. I freak until I get paid just about every time.

[meathead1134]

was this a new customer or an existing customer? IMO you should have gotten 50% up front and the other 50 when you complete if they are a new customer. If it is an existing customer I would bite my tongue and wait if no contract was written

[Top_Fuel]

Here's a view from the customer's perspective...

Maybe the landscaping business is different, but if a contractor says they need money up-front for materials, they are instantly out of consideration for any job I need done. For a consumer, demanding money up-front is a HUGE red flag that the contractor is either unprofessional, a scammer, under-funded, or all of the above.

There isn't a consumer advocate anywhere who would recommend giving a contractor money up-front for materials. California recommends no more than 10% up front or $1,000 (whichever is less).

Here are a couple of bullets from a consumer web-page I found:

Never give money upfront to a contractor so he can ‘buy materials’. If he does, ask why he doesn’t have a line of credit and be suspicious of the answer.
Make sure you have a written contract specifying a start and completion date.

[betterlawn]

It's a week - and I would never take delivery on something without checking it out. What they did was rude, but all this talk of suing and stuff is kind of premature.

If you want to be a business you've got to run like one. You know where they live - if they stiff you, THEN you worry about collecting. If one week is going to hurt your cash flow to a damaging level, than they are probably thinking they shouldn't have hired you (that's what I would think).

[Remsen1]

Here's a view from the customer's perspective...

Maybe the landscaping business is different, but if a contractor says they need money up-front for materials, they are instantly out of consideration for any job I need done. For a consumer, demanding money up-front is a HUGE red flag that the contractor is either unprofessional, a scammer, under-funded, or all of the above.

There isn't a consumer advocate anywhere who would recommend giving a contractor money up-front for materials. California recommends no more than 10% up front or $1,000 (whichever is less).

Here are a couple of bullets from a consumer web-page I found:

Never give money upfront to a contractor so he can ‘buy materials’. If he does, ask why he doesn’t have a line of credit and be suspicious of the answer.
Make sure you have a written contract specifying a start and completion date.

You're a fool! First post from a troller, off to a bad start. Line of credit or not, you have to get at least 30% up front from the customer as a showing of good faith.

[Remsen1]

I just finsihed up a nice project for a customer. A great piece of work. New pavers installed, flagstone installed, and a whole new irrigation system. I called just a moment ago to say hey we are finished I would like to show you the sprinkler system and how it all works. They say can we do it when we get back? I say sure, where ya going. They will be gone for one week. So I say, well since you are going to be gone can I drop off the final bill to you and get payment since balance due upon completion per contract. Client says they want to wait till they get back to make sure they are happy with everything. I remind them of the agreement and that I paid for all the labor, supplies etc already. I told them this will hurt my cash flow blah blah. They say that is what happens with business sometimes. I kept my cool b/c at that point I wanted to say no thanks for a lesson on that. With the big balance that is due I don't want to have to wait any longer to get paid so I am (for now gonna) going to have to play along with their game. It is all my fault I should have been able to weed this person out from the beginning.

I HATE getting jerked around over money. HATE IT! If I don't get paid as soon as they get back I will start the lein process.

If anyone has any words they care to share or similar stories please feel free. I needed to vent.

Can you get there before they leave? They can't decide whether they are satisfied with your work before they go? It sounds like they are BS'ing you. You need to tread lightly so they don't decide to screw you. Regardless of how this works out, I hope this is a big lessen to you. I would pizz me off if a customer decided that it was their role to teach me a lesson in business, but I would have to take a deep breath and handle it calmly so as not to get screwed and have to take legal action (which is more of a pain that doing all of the work).

[JRAZ]

Of course I have 1/2 down, and a contract. I am not a bank and not talking about suing, yet. The balance due is a good chunk of change. These were new cst's this year. My biz is run professionally...I just get real pissy when people play games with MY money.

[JRAZ]

Can you get there before they leave? They can't decide whether they are satisfied with your work before they go? It sounds like they are BS'ing you. You need to tread lightly so they don't decide to screw you. Regardless of how this works out, I hope this is a big lessen to you. I would pizz me off if a customer decided that it was their role to teach me a lesson in business, but I would have to take a deep breath and handle it calmly so as not to get screwed and have to take legal action (which is more of a pain that doing all of the work).

All my thoughts exactly. I tried the, "I can meet you in the morning before you leave," no luck. Makes me a little nervous. I do need to tread lightly and play along with their game for now. The only thing I should have done better would have been to weed these people out from the beginning. Otherwise, all my other bases have been covered on this. Even if your bases are covered and a clinet wants to dick you around it will still be costly to collect.

[PROCUT1]

Dont be afraid to be FIRM with your collection.

Not getting your money ontime will kill you in this business.

[Garth]

You have every reason to vent. I'd consider putting in a clause that states that a "finance" charge of 1.5% will be added for every day the bill is not paid after the final statement is submitted. I don't know if it's legal where you are but sometimes the thought of paying more makes the cheque-book a wee bit easier to open. Basically, it will add up to $15 for every $1000 of the contract and for a big job that could add up to a nice little weekend for you and the missus.

[Gravely_Man]

Well atleast you got half before you started. Unless you were expecting to knock on the door the day you finished a week's time on paying a bill is not a long time at all. Just think about you finished the job and either mailed them the bill or left it with them it would normally take about a week to get the check from them mailed to you.


Gravely_Man

[Top_Fuel]

You're a fool! First post from a troller, off to a bad start. Line of credit or not, you have to get at least 30% up front from the customer as a showing of good faith.I assure you that I'm an educated professional and not a "troll". But thanks for labelling me after one post. Boy, I sure feel welcome here now! ;) I only posted to give the customer's perspective.

I agree entirely with betterlawn. What they're doing shows a lack of consideration for the company that did the work, but there's no need to hit the panic button yet.

I'm not only giving you my opinion, I'm telling you what the Better Business Bureau and any other consumer advocate would recommend when dealing with a contractor. Again, unless the landscaping business is unique, the requirement of paying for materials up front is universally considered to be a warning flag of a possible problem contractor.

If the landscaping industry is somehow different, then I'm off-base with my comments.

[Remsen1]

I know ALOT of educated fools. A customer who is not willing to start off with a deposit is a HUGE red flag to contractors. So if customers were to follow the better business bureau recommendation, and all contractors seek good faith estimates before starting work. Then no customers would get any contractors to do any work for them.

Anyway, that wasn't the case as we found later, JRAZ did get half down, and if I were him I wouldn't press the panic button yet either. I thought when he said he was out of pocket for supplies and labor and all, that he didn't get any money before starting. Some slight concern here, but no cause for extreme panic.

I always get 30%-50% upfront, and then usually get the remainder before I drive away, but a week or two never killed me either. I prod them pretty good to at least get them to say they like the work before I leave or as soon as I can reach them by phone. Don't want them pulling some BS weeks later saying "well, we're not very happy".

By the way, welcome to lawnsite, we will tend to get touchy when people advocate screwing with the grunt monkey lawnboy. It's one of the most common vents on lawnsite as you will see.

[Top_Fuel]

A customer who is not willing to start off with a deposit is a HUGE red flag to contractors.Well, remember that rule goes both ways. In your line of work, you guys probably have story after story of deadbeat customers. For me the concern is usually deadbeat contractors. Sounds like there's enough mis-trust to go around! :)

Maybe we can agree on this "contractor warning" compromise that I found on another website:

Warning Sign: Up-front Payment

"That's gonna involve a lot of materials. I'll have to ask you to pay me now."

Requests for up-front payment before work begins should trigger a warning bell. Many people pay up front for work and then never see the contractor again. You should pay in advance of work only when it is a large job, you have already properly screened the contractor (checked references, etc.), and you have a proper contract. Upon signing the contract you might pay a percentage of the total amount -- usually around 30%.
...welcome to lawnsite, we will tend to get touchy when people advocate screwing with the grunt monkey lawnboy. It's one of the most common vents..No problem. I'm the new guy here so I'll take my beatings in stride. :D

[MarcSmith]

Since they are going to be away for a week, Id make sure the irrigatoin system on on and running. you don't want any plants going Tit s up before they return....

[JRAZ]

Since they are going to be away for a week, Id make sure the irrigatoin system on on and running. you don't want any plants going Tit s up before they return....

That is a great point which I made to them already. They want to leave it off while they are gone. "We are worried if there might be a leak." I told them there would not be a leak as I have thoroughly checked the system. We replaced an old system that had leaks all over the place. So, apparently they are not over the paranoia. I transplanted a rose bush for them as part of the deal. There goes the rose bush. We just got into the 90's this week.

Now, they are starting to nitpick at the flagstone stepping stone pathway we installed and are requesting 4 pieces to be replaced because of their size. There is nothing wrong with them as they are much larger than any foot around but not as large as some of the other pieces. I explained that was the beuaty of flagstone, their irregularity.

So, as we can see this is just the beginning. I got a bad feeling about this. I feel like as soon as I appease one thing they will come up with another, all the while holding this balance due over my head.

[Kate Butler]

If I read the original post correctly, there WAS a contract and that contract has been completed. Payment was due upon completion. All the subsequent diddling around by the client is above and beyond the scope of the original contract and has no bearing on the already-completed job. You should be paid and all this other jive billed additionally.

And, about the rose bush. You have installed the system. The client chooses not to use the system in their absence. The fault (if the rose dies) is theirs, not yours.

[topsites]

If I read the original post correctly, there WAS a contract and that contract has been completed. Payment was due upon completion. All the subsequent diddling around by the client is above and beyond the scope of the original contract and has no bearing on the already-completed job. You should be paid and all this other jive billed additionally.

And, about the rose bush. You have installed the system. The client chooses not to use the system in their absence. The fault (if the rose dies) is theirs, not yours.

Yes, I fully agree.

I have a customer who really racks up some charges, small ones but very frequent (two properties, weekly service). So it takes no time for the bill to reach several hundred and I get very nervous because it's so easy to get skru'd and if you really *PUSH* for 200 or more in payment and they decide to get nasty back, you could end up in jail for racketeering if you're not extremely careful with how you worded the demand.

So today I left a bill on the door with the note: Prompt payment needed for continued service.
As I left down the road, I thought the words 'Prompt payment ensures continued service' would've been better and the whole thing bugged me until I got home and ARrrrrg there was their check in the mail, LOL !
Now then I am no fool and all my deposits leave carbon copies plus I have every week of work-done/bills paid since I started and I decided to re-calculate the amount. Turns out they DO fall behind and they still owe about a week but also they make frequent payments so then I called and left a message telling them that I got the check and everything was ok, heh.
Man I get so nervous too thou...

[mbricker]

Topsites, you can simplify your book-keeping, and reduce the possibility of an occasional bill that is unpaid that you don't catch:

Bill just once a month, itemizing each job on the bill from your daily work log. Or go to an annual contract with regular monthly installments from the customer. But billing after each job, or weekly, or standing at the door to collect after each job? You got time for that?