Extra charge for long grass?

[Twotoros]

I am just putting my spring sign-up letter out for my customers.
Am I wrong to put my foot down this year and tell them there will be extra charges for extra long grass?
This isn't the seasonal growth spurt kind of long grass.
This is the chemically induced growth some of the spray guys load on. Seems like if they don't have the mowing contract they pour it on heavy.
I explained this in the letter and offer to fertilize myself or find someone to do it. I worded it kind of like 'this is the way it will be as I've had it"and "I'm willing to lose customers over the issue.
AmI wrong to not want to do extra work for nothing?
Or should I back off and keep eating this problem?
I haven't sent the letter out yet the weather has been so crappy nobody is thinking spring yet.

[1MajorTom]

I understand where you are coming from. There is nothing worse than going to a customers house when their grass is extra long. More work for you, and more work for your equipment.

I see you made reference to 'mowing contract'. What exactly is your mowing contract?

If your customers are getting their grass cut every 7 days, I don't see how you can penalize them.

HOWEVER, if they are the type of people that are waiting 10 to 14 days between cuts knowing that they are intentionally fertilizing heavy, then I say by all means charge them more!

[Twotoros]

7 days between,Major. No when I pull up after a week and there is 6-8" staring at me I freak . Please note that every one here like it cut 13/4-21/4" . so if I have to do four plus because of to much juice I find it unfair to me. I'm trying to get these people away from the bandits who over apply.

[Randy Scott]

Twotoros, I don't know how many customers you have but is it possible to call them and meet with each one in person or somehow get in touch verbally so you can explain this to them. Sometimes people don't know your tone of voice by a letter and may take it the wrong way. No sense loosing customers if you don't have to. Just a thought! :) God luck.

[1MajorTom]

Wow, I didn't realize how low your customers wanted their grass cut, and how long it actually got in seven days.

Yes, go ahead and send out a letter. You need to sound firm about the extra charge, but you don't want to come across too harsh either.

I would mention something in the letter like, "due to the fact that I am taking off more than the recommended amount of grass at one cutting, I will be forced to raise your price if you insist upon heavy fertilizations and low height cuttings."

By all means, you are the boss. You need to be happy cutting these peoples grass. You need to make it worth your while.
If you can't, then I would advise replacing these pain in the butt accounts with more profitable ones.

[Twotoros]

Good advice about contacting them in person however this problem arises with different customers from year to year. I'm only looking for extra charges when there is a over application . If they can be convinced to back off and cancel an app now and again. Sometimes I think the spray guys are out to get the lawn guy. Tomorrow I'ii take a look at the letter .Maybe tone it down or send a different letter to the ones I know will not be a problem. I stated in the letter I didn't mind extra work once in awhile .Maybe I'll post it and see what you think.

[Runner]

Be careful, as there is a large grey area here. When grass grows like that does everyone consider and blame it on the fertilizer? No. They blame it on the rain. This is the same thing the fert guy is going to say. If it's growing like that, tell the higher priced ones that you'll have to cut 5 to 6 times a month. This is necessary with the rapid growth. This is, of course if you're charging by the cut. If not, then yes there would have to be some sort of double cutting penalty. When I did that, I added 1/2 the cost of the cut (since the trimming and blowing are not doubled).

[Twotoros]

Runner , desert here can't blame the rain.
here is the letter:
*************
I’d like to thank you for your business in the past and once again need your attention for a couple of minutes to review this proposal for the 2001 season. The white copy has all of the services I offer for this year and the prices for your property.
I‘ve found that trying to keep my prices low is becoming more of a problem the longer I am in business. This will be my sixteenth year in business. If after you review your proposal and find the prices unreasonable, then I urge you to call me and allow me to explain the changes. I also urge you to compare with other licensed lawn care companies. I will no longer compete with the many unlicensed fly-by-night so-called services. Many do a good job but because they cheat the system and they have a 35% edge over me. The days of lowering my bottom line are over, as I must consider the future of my business. If you choose not to renew services because of price then please let me explain my point of view in person.

This year I will offer two grades of fertilizer. The first are the products I buy from Wilbur-Ellis Co. They are good products and are the cheaper of the two programs I offer. The other program is Scott’s brand premium fertilizer.
I am offering Scott’s crabgrass as well as Scott’s weed control, which can be applied late spring and early fall. Also the Scott’s fertilizer, which can be applied instead of the weed control products if you do not like herbicides on your lawn. The program Scott’s suggests is 4 or 5 applications: crabgrass/fertilizer applied early spring, broadleaf control/fertilizer late spring, fertilizer in summer (optional), broadleaf control/fertilizer early fall, and Scott’s winterizer in late fall.
If you would rather have a spray fertilizer program I can arrange that with a service that I can trust and that can be billed through me, saving you from having to pay two different companies.

PLEASE READ:
What I’m trying to get away from is the fertilizer programs some my customers have used in the past. These other companies put way too much product on the lawn and cause extreme growth, leaving me to deal with the consquenses. It is like you going to work one day and your boss saying, “ Will you put in 30-90% more time on the job today? And by the way you are doing it on your time.” I hate to say it but those days are also over! If you choose to use a lawn spray company that over fertilizes your lawn I will add on extra charges to cover my time. I don’t mind a little extra time once in awhile but I have pulled up to jobs with 6-8 inches of growth in on week. This makes it very hard to do a good job even when spending extra time on the job. I may lose customers over this problem but I won’t budge on this issue. This is my sixteenth year and I am getting old and stubborn. I hope I do no sound to harsh, if so call me we’ll talk.

Tip:
Please try not to water your lawn 24-72 hours before mowing. 24 hours when it’s hot,48 hours when it’s warm and 72 hours when it’s cool. This is to insure you get the best possible cut each week.
Remember your lawn likes deep, infrequent watering. All you lawn needs to be healthy is 1” of water per week or 11/2 inches if it is hot. This equals two deep watering cycles per week!!!!!

I hope to be of service to you another season. Thank you for your time. Sincerely, Gary Gallipo

***********************************************************
That's it plus a letter with service prices.

[Skookum]

Gary,

I understand your problem, like many on this forum do, I have walked away from accounts that were just too much trouble from this same situation. Mine was the homeowners themselves doing the apps at about 9 to 10 apps a year of Scotts Turf Builder and 4 step programs! Guess the "4 step" never registered with the one guy. But hey 2 x 4 has got to be better, right?

Anyway, this is just my opinion, but your letter sounds just a touch harsh. I think it is right from our stand in this industry on this subject, but I just feel that it could be a little more appeasing to the customer. Try writing it as as a plea to understand your situation not as a ultimatum to them about the situation. Just my .02!

[4 Saisons]

my opinion on your letter..

Too much focussing on the non renewal. some will think about to not renew only because your light them on. Don't shows problems, bring solution (marketing pitch), offering fert is a good one.

Also do not insist too much on the fact that they can call you, limit it by one statement at they end.

About flight by night, state what difference with you: insurance, better equipment, formation, knowledge and diagnostics, no under table, employe, etc.

You want more, sure they will want more, insist on the fact that them properties will always look better.

ca passe ou ca casse.

Denis

[Edited by 4 Saisons on 02-23-2001 at 03:25 AM]

[awm]

Sorry to hear of your problems.I wanted to comment
on your letter and post.Years ago I learned that with my
Irish blood it was better to move slow on things like this.
I will write a letter and put it up for a day or so.
Then read after a day or mabe a wk.At that time if
the letter is still what I want to say mail it.
I compliment you on your wisdom.

[MIDSOUTH]

(I hate to say it but those days are over.)

That is too harsh of a letter, spend a day and go and talk to them in person and try to resolve this matter without losing customers, if I got that letter I would probably call someone else. Please tell me you did not send that letter to all your customers. I know there are alot of people on here that say they are tough as nails on their customers, but if you saw them at a customers house it would probably be different. I agree with raising the price but only after talking in person with them.

(I am old and stubborn)-Customers don't care if you are old and stubborn- that is just another reason to replace you.

[Edited by MIDSOUTH on 02-23-2001 at 08:38 AM]

[accuratelawn]

I think your letter is too wordy and harsh. Read the letter yourself in the mindset of a customer.
I understand your concerns, but I think you might scare off some good customers.

[lawngirlfl]

Like some of the others said I think the letter is a little on the harsh side. If you don't have too many customers try talking nicely to them. If you haven't increased your prices in a while try a slight increase across the board to help cover costs.

[lawrence stone]

Get out of town and move to Las Vegas. All the new single family housing units have plots of grass to me maintained.

Something like 7000 people move to vegas on a monthly basis.

Sam Kinision said if you are starving move to where the food is.

[turfquip]

That letter needs to be condensed by 50% or more. Before you make the mistake of sending it why not confer with someone you respect as a good communicator? Face to face with someone there locally. A business person. Or, go to the library and get a book on effective business communication. You've got time.

[thelawnguy]

"I haven't sent the letter out yet the weather has been so crappy nobody is thinking spring yet."

Beg to differ. 80% of my spring letters have already been returned by the customer signed and with their intent indicated. And I wont cut the first blade of grass til mid-April.

They went out first week of February while a two foot snowstorm was raging.

[Twotoros]

Thanks all. No letter has been sent . I will tone it down and maybe just wait for the problem lawns and then do a face to face. I will leave the line about not competing with the unlicensed and drop the fly-by part. Although I am offering 4 apps of fert . I will suggest they choose only 3 apps. I fertilize my own lawn well and can mow twice a week if needed but of coarse the customer won't want to spend for extra mows.
My frustrations lie in the fact that as a solo mowing contractor I have no control over these heavy spray programs. I have good luck with the ones I fert. because I use slow release and apply light . Green is all I want.
You are all right about looking at a letter a day or so later which I usually do. Thanks for all the good input.

[mowing king]

you need to charge more per cut. some ways to get more money.
1. charge by the hour for the chem lawns.

2.charge by the catcher full. like $3 per hopper.

3. if you kept time last year you know how long it took for the season,Now charge one price for the season.

these are things we do that make a BIG difference $$$$ in the pocket. 18 years and counting.

[kutnkru]

Heres how we address this with our clients:

Inclement Weather
If services cannot be rendered due to weather conditions, PRO TURF will adjust the date of services to either one-day prior or postpone until the weather permits.

If excessive rain forces us off schedule and we must double cut the lawn, or spend additional time to restore the lawn to the appearance you expect, PRO TURF will add a proportional surcharge for such work.

Extra time will be charged at the same rates listed under the Seasonal Clean-Up heading of this proposal.

Basically we have been able to cover ourselves by using this clause for rapid growth due to fert apps, rain, cooler weather etc.

Hope this might help you out some.
Kris

[Currier]

I think the less said the better. You know your business. You just explained it all to us in the letter. Your customers do not need to know your business.

Tell them the new prices for this year.
Explain that excessive growth due to poor turf prcatices may result in increased charges.
Ask them to call you regarding any questions or extra services you can provide.

People are so busy these days (that's why they have us) They aren't going to read and really empathize with your situation. Instead they will get confused, angry, or just read into the letter what they want it to say.
Folow the K.I.S.S. rule. (Keep it simple...)

[TJLC]

How can you charge a customer more for excessive rain that causes you to have to double cut? That's mother natures fault, not the customers. Nobody can control the rainfall. Excessive rainfall is a royal pain, I agree, but that is an unfortunate part of the business. If you have to double cut because the customer REFUSES to let you cut it when it needs to be cut, then I say YES charge them more,that is their fault. Understand, I'm not trying to start an arguement here, just stating my opinion.

[kutnkru]

I guess to avoid the arguement I will just give you where Im coming from TJ. If you cut a lawn you charge x amount of dollars. You charge that amount because you have to make so much per hour to make ends meet and to amke the profit margin you want.

I am not saying that I am charging the customer for the weather conditions. I am stating that when I bid a property I charge them x amount of dollars for x number of minutes to complete their property to the best of my ability. If I have to spend additional time, then they have to pay for that time.

We are contracted to keep their properties looking metciulous. I guess its kind of like when you take your car to get the brakes done. If your car has been taken care of properly you dont have to pay extra for the time it takes them to lossen rusted bolts etc. If this is what they find and they spend the extra time to make your brakes right, then you pay for that time. Its a business. Did I create the weather that caused the city to salt our roads - NO. Did I wash the undercarriage of my vehicle because of this - NO. Would I have to pay the extra money for this scenario at the brake shop -YES.

So basically it comes to two things. They can pay the extra amount for us to do it right the first time, or they can pay a little less to have their lawn cut in the rain so the guy doesnt get off schedule and hope he is around in the future to continue to service their account.

Just how I feel.
Kris

[guntruck]

Not that im the experiance guru of this site but from what i've gathered here, and from my own experiance you MUST get paid for any and all time you spend working. Your time is valuable and make sure to explain this the the customer. If the customer has a guy spraying it and your on a 7 day cut schedule maybe you should just up the cost of the job a hare to offset the cost of the extra time it takes to cut the 8" of grass, instead of up down up down etc.

[65hoss]

Kris,
I like your inclement weather policy, so if you don't mind I want to plagerize. ????

Eric

[jason2]

I've actually been thinking about doing what Stone mentions. This is only my second year in WA. No roots here, nothing to tie me down. Vegas is booming. With the climate they have, cutting would be year round. With as many people moving there, as there is I'm sure accounts would be easy to come by. In Spokane, where I do most of my work, there is a lot of competition.

Biggest downfall about moving to Vegas would be the heat. And no snow to push in the winter.

[kutnkru]

I think the way that alot of us share and swap information on here, that it would be hard to tell where the original came from - LOL.

If I have sent it to you or put it up for all to see, then have at it Buddy Row!!

Kris

[thelawnguy]

What customer would pay extra to have the lawn mowed after a rainstorm, when they can pay a properly equipped co who can handle adverse conditions the contracted rate.

[Ricky]

I believe that you could explain that you are willing to absorb a little of the extra work and time for loyal customers. Also that you don't mind it when it can't be helped because of weather (excess rain) from time to time, and that you have been doing that. But when it comes to excessive fert. that is a different matter, and that is in the control of the customer. I would also add that it is not recommended that more than 1/3 of the leaf be removed from the turf at one time. This doesn't promote a healthy lawn and that is what we are striving for aren't we? :)

[lawnMaster5000]

I have seen little mention of sprinkler systems in this disgussion, i was wondering what people think of penalizing customers who create a swamp in thier lawn. I know in my area during the summer we rarely get too much rain, but there are many lawns that are saturated beyond the point of mowable. (even after talking to them about turning down water cycle)

What kind of penalty can be given to these customers?


Sorry if this has been answered previously, i must have missed it. - thanks

[kutnkru]

So Bill even during an extremely wet Spring if you have to skip a week because you absolutely could not cut and it takes you 3 hrs to bring a lawn back to its manicured state the following week you would eat the extra time??

Just curious.
Kris

[Mike Paulsen]

Jason2 why would you want to move? Where you are there is alot of growth with jobs to go with. You would get tried of cutting grass all year. Four seasons is the way to go and not so many people. Don't let Stone pump you up,he's FULL of all kinds of ideas but I bet you don't see him moving.

[Rex Mann]

I am a hardscape only guy. I do not even own a mower. I have a landscape company with a mowing service do my 3 acre yard. I have another company using a granular fetr. app. 3 times a year. At diffrent points in the year my grass grows fast. As a good customer(I pay the invoice when I get it) who pays by the mow. I expect my grass to be cut when needed as needed. Sometimes they cut it every 4 or 5 days. Some times it only gets cut once every 4(it's bluegrass). When they used to get behind because of rain days they mowed my grass(all three acres) 2 times. If they did not do this I would have found a new service.

They changed their mowing schedule to a 4 day week. the other day is used as a catch up or maintenace day. Since they have done this they have not been trying to play "catch up". Seems they mow it whenever it needs it.

Just look from the other side of the fence.

Rex

[BRIAN GALLO]

I know exactly wher your coming from on this one!!! I have a lot of people that get hevy fert. and don't want to see you back to cut any sooner than 2 weeks. I think I'm going to do some sort of extra charging this year or try to get their fertilizer job too. this way I can monitor the growth better. Most customers don't realize when we go over their lawn 2-3 times we're losing $$$$.

[cantoo]

Stoney and Jason2 look into Vegas before you pack your bags, I hear there is lots of competition and lots of cheap cutters there already. Also lots of people changing to low maintenance and low water use lawns, stones, desert plants etc. might be better to do that than cut grass. Of course the good side is the cheap tricks to be had.

[bobbygedd]

as far as the rain thing is concerned, it is mother natures fault, not mine. one customer wrote me and stated that he should not be penalized for an act of god (rain). well, i told him, neither should i, i didnt make it rain, and neither did u, but its your lawn. i am switching to flat monthly rates this year. 30 cuts, from april 1st, to oct 30th. i also state in my contracts that the cutting height is 2 and 3/4 inches. and that in order to do a good job and keep our prices fair, we must be able to keep our schedule. this means not watering the day of cutting, no toys on lawn etc. and, if your fert company is treating with something that causes surge growth, we must charge accordingly during the heavy growth months. do you believe, i had a customer who wanted a spring cleanup and asked how much it would cost. i quoted him, sring cleanup and disposal $xxx. he said y extra for disposaol, so i explained it. he said well, just clean it up and pile the debris behind my shed. i said ok. then, this *#@head, would make little piles of sticks in the lawn using the debris from the cleanup, figuring i would have to pick it up to cut the lawn. i sent him a bill for the original disposal fee plus extra for time lost during cutting. then, told him to get someone else to be his slave. im done getting my butt whooped doing this.they will pay me for everything i do, or get someone else. yes, if the lawn has a problem with surge growth, then get extra. explain to them that for thier $30 or whatever, u alot 30 min for thier property, give or take 5 min. u want to be fair to them as well as yourself. if on some days it only takes u 20 min to cut and wack, u spend 5 or ten min to say wack the weeds on the walkway , or clean along the curb or whatever. u give the cust thier moneys worth, and in turn u have to be paid for things that cause u to spend xtra time. sorry so long. bob

[jason2]

Mike, and Cantoo,

I'm not too serious about packing it in for Vegas. It was just a coincidence that Stone brought up Vegas, because I had been thinking about moving there in the past.

I don't think I could handle the heat there. And I do like the snow for the most part.

What I need to do is to move into Spokane, but my financial situation won't allow it yet. Hopefully I'll have a successful summer and be able to move there this fall.

I apologize for getting off the original topic. And can sympathize with Twotoros predicament.

[Paradise Yard Service]

What happens over here sometimes, is you get those who let- er-go for say 6 months and then give you a call for mow-n-trim. Well, I estimate what it would have cost them for 6 months to have everything maintained on at least an every other week basis. When I submit my bid I love to see their expressions on their faces! I really get off on that. Just think of the proposal $65.00x12=780.00 plus .04% excise tax! This is one way I "paper train" the people who think we just do this for the exercise!
Aloha,
P.Y.S.

[thelawnguy]

Originally posted by kutnkru
So Bill even during an extremely wet Spring if you have to skip a week because you absolutely could not cut and it takes you 3 hrs to bring a lawn back to its manicured state the following week you would eat the extra time??

Just curious.
Kris

In the eight + years in the business I have never been that far behind. Maybe 3 days, max and it really never got too far out of hand. When you get back to mowing you start on the lawns that in the past were the fastest growing and catch up with them first.

Grass needs sunlight to grow as well as water and the sun doesnt usually shine while its raining ;)

[kutnkru]

Thanks for the insight Bill.

Kris

[Twotoros]

Jason2 , you might think about Sparks/Reno. The weather is close to that of us in central WA. No as cool as Spokane.The terrain is almost identical to us in Yak.Mountains and lakes to the west etc. Also only 3 hours or so from San Fran. Reno is also growing. I could not take the heat of Vegas.