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A+ Lawncare
05-31-2005, 06:42 PM
My friend John contacted me 2day looking for a job/partnership in my co. i'm pondering whether i want this or not.... here's the deal & setup i'm running.... rite now i'm operating out of a ranger p/u & 2 toro trim mowers (21'') & all the handhelds, and its paid for. so i have no need to request $$ upfront from him as a partner.

but my plan is to pay him $400 a week (40hrs) X 4 weeks, i plan to hire him next week if i do so and work him until next september. 10-12 weeks of 40hr work weeks...

anyways, here the deal... rite now John doesn't have a lot of $$ to put down, maybe $250... my total mowing rig is worth about $1,500 w/o the p/u... the equipment used i could easily ask $800-1k 2day and get it... so the plan is to divide my cost of equipment value in half..... $900/2= $450.... $450-$250 (the amount of $ he could pay upfront)= $200 left to pay.

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i currently have 20 accounts and plan to sign on 35 by the end of june to keep us busy full time...

i cut lawns from size of 1/8-1/2 an acre rite now.... and make about $750 rite now.... by the end of june i plan to make $1,050 a week.....

i want to pay him $370 a week for a month and subtract $50 a week from his pay to make up the cost of equipment.... so $370-$50=$320 a week.... $320/40hrs= $8 an hr

from July to Sept. i'm gonna pay him 40% of the $ we make a week, since i have the truck and will supply the fuel.... so if we make $1,050 a week, thats $420 a week.... $420/40hrs= $10.5 an hr.
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1 of my questions are if he by chance drives his truck for the day if my truck by chance goes down, how much extra should i pay him for the use of his truck & fuel?

Charles
05-31-2005, 06:50 PM
I would not partner with anyone who only had 250$. Best bet to just hire him as an employees. Not much benefit to you as a partner

gwwilson
05-31-2005, 06:58 PM
1. no partnership, period............

2. you only have 20 jobs, what the h _ _ _, do need and employee for ????/

3. i have 81 lawns, that range in size from 1/2 acre to 14 acres.........
and i take care of all these lawns...................

trouble is a coming !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


:blob3: :blob3: :cool2: :cool2:

A+ Lawncare
05-31-2005, 07:01 PM
wilson u may have 14 acres you cut but i'm sure you have the a bunch of equipment to service this lot..... 14acres and .25 acres is a whole diff. lot, why compare the 2 and situations?

Thirdpete
05-31-2005, 07:14 PM
even if you have a soft spot for your friend i wouldnt do this. thats letting him jump on the ship after its already left port, so to speak. after he sees its a cash cow if done right then of course he wants in. but either way, i would avoid a partnership at most costs.

Turf Technologies
05-31-2005, 07:21 PM
DO a search of partnerships and you will have your answer. I was in a partnership with my brother. It was ok. But we just ened it in April, he wants to try another line of work. If I knew then what I do know , I wouldnt have formed a partnership at all. And many others will say the samething.

MMLawn
05-31-2005, 07:22 PM
Dude you are 17 years old, you don't need any help to cut even the 35 yards that you hope to get with that young strong back!

Besides at 17 you can't legally have a "company" a "partner" or an "employee" cause you have to be 18 for those things.

Just cut them yourself and pocket that money you would give him!

A+ Lawncare
05-31-2005, 07:27 PM
sole w/one mower,i'm only able to cut no more than 10-12,000 in about 35mins, so w/John i'm sure we cut up to 20,000 sq ft total lot size in about the same time..... so thats double the $$ we could make... in an hr time we could about ¾ acre or 32,670 square feet, which is about $45-50 going rate in our town. So $50-$10.50= $39.50....

note i'm going to pay him 35-40% of what the company takes in after expenses each week, so hourly really doesn't have much to do with it....

$
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Expenses...........

$10 an day ( gas for torros)


75 miles/ 17 mpg= 4.4 gallons X $2= $8.80 gas expense per day

$10+ $8.80= $18.80 an day gas expense X 5 days= $94 week expense
$7.50/2 mowers= $3.75 each mower operational cost.... $7.50 X 5days= $37.5 mower expense

$120 truck expense/ 24hrs= $5 an hr.

$500,000 worth of liabity, annual premium is $730


$730/ 14 weeks= $52.14 a week/ 40 hrs= $1.30 an hr expense

$94 + $37.5 + $52.14= $183.14 week expense + $120 truck expense= $303.14 TOTAL(week)

PTP
05-31-2005, 07:29 PM
This sounds like a bad idea.

You should be able to do 35 lawns solo part time. I know that because I did it last year. They were about the same size that you are servicing.

A 2 man crew can take care of 100 properties per week with your current set-up. If you want to hire him as an employee, that is OK but you will need more properties.

So let's say that you can take in $1050 per week. You can take about 25% off for your overhead costs (I am being conservative here). That leaves you with about 800. You give your partner $420 and that leaves you with $380 in your pocket. Now, that is just for the mowing time. You still have to do the maintenance, billing, and the office things. And who pays for the garden hose that you accidently hit?

In reality, your partner will be making more per week and much more per hour than you will be.

Pass on this one.

A+ Lawncare
05-31-2005, 07:37 PM
w/him i can cut the 40hr work week down to about 25 hrs.... so $1,050- $303.14= $746.88 cleared/2 = $373.44

$373.44 /25 hrs= $15 an hr for both... but since he only gets about 35-40% thats $261.40-$298 for him (25hrs)..... $280/25 hrs= $11.2 an hr for John

and $466.88 for myself.... $466.88/25hrs= $18.67 an hr....
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Solo, i make about the same per hr. but its 40hrs instead of 25 hrs.... half the work and same amount of $ i make w/him.... IMO its a good deal for both of us.

green-go
05-31-2005, 07:40 PM
Don't do it. Hire him if you really feel you want the extra help, not to mention that much less income for yourself as you are far from being full time with your number of accounts.
If you want to HIRE him and make less money, go ahead. But DON'T start a partnership. What's in it for you to allow him an equal share of everything you've put all this time and effort into? Nothing. You aren't accounting for the intangibles such as the accounts you've built up on your own time, money, and effort, experience you've gained, relationships you've built with your customers, etc.

Howard Roark
05-31-2005, 07:43 PM
While it would help you in the long run to have a two man crew to service more properties, I see no valid reason to bring him on as a partner especially considering you already have the equipment and it's paid for.
I had two people approach asking me if I wanted a partner AFTER I already had 60 accounts and all my equipment and started making money. Let's see......I did all the hard work, took the risk and built it up, and now I can split the profits? Uh.........no.

Give him a job, not half your business.

A+ Lawncare
05-31-2005, 07:47 PM
the only reason i want a partner is so i can have some1 buy half of my equipment i have paid for and pay some1 based on a percentage not an hourly cost.... that way if i pay some1 XXX amount but it takes 40hrs instead of the estimated 30hrs i don't lose money....

green-go
05-31-2005, 08:01 PM
the only reason i want a partner is so i can have some1 buy half of my equipment i have paid for and pay some1 based on a percentage not an hourly cost.... that way if i pay some1 XXX amount but it takes 40hrs instead of the estimated 30hrs i don't lose money....

I fail to see your logic (as it doesn't make sense). If you want to hire him, hire him. Pay him based on his efficiency. If he is slow as shet, hire someone else. You need to look at this from a business standpoint, not as a hobby. Enjoy your job as much as you want but don't make poor business decisions.

WoodBrothersLC
05-31-2005, 08:01 PM
How will you manage to get 15 more accounts by the end of june?

Todd's lawncare
05-31-2005, 08:02 PM
wilson u may have 14 acres you cut but i'm sure you have the a bunch of equipment to service this lot..... 14acres and .25 acres is a whole diff. lot, why compare the 2 and situations?
why can't he compare it ? He is doing 81 lawns a week solo why can you do 20 or 50 for that matter ? You a trip man you seem to have asked any thing and every thing one who would start a company needs to know i mean if your gonna do this you need to know at least something . And no one can answer your ? but YOU. Alot of people say it the worst thing you can do but why ? There are ALOT of people who do it and make ALOT of money and it goes with out a hitch . I have a partner for firewood it works grate and he is family . Not all partners are bad !!! Just gotta find the right ones . But you my lawn Buddie you need to fly solo till you can't no more then hire someone and DON;T take on a partner just to pay for half the stuff . What will you do when he wants out and takes half of it ? just hire a crew but at 20 lawns you don't need nothing unless there BIG i mean really BIG .

mosmgras
05-31-2005, 08:19 PM
My partner and I teamed up about 4 years ago. He and I have been friends for about 10 years. At first things were a little rough. We went through a period of trying to figure out who should get what and when. Being friends we agreed on what was fair and drove on. At the time I had all of the 'heavy' landscaping equipment and he had all the lawn equipment. We teamed up because, for us, it made sense. Unlike your situation, my partner had a little more than $250 to invest, more like $10,000 in equipment, not to mention 50 weekly accounts. We work together and split everything 50/50. I agree with the other guys, don't take a partner that will offer nothing and take more than his share. I would concentrate on building your business solo for a while. If a partner is what you are looking for, wait for one with at least as much to invest as you already have. Believe me, simple mistakes now can last a life time.

MMLawn
05-31-2005, 08:22 PM
note i'm going to pay him 35-40% of what the company takes in after expenses each week, so hourly really doesn't have much to do with it....

$
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Expenses...........

$10 an day ( gas for torros)


75 miles/ 17 mpg= 4.4 gallons X $2= $8.80 gas expense per day

$10+ $8.80= $18.80 an day gas expense X 5 days= $94 week expense
$7.50/2 mowers= $3.75 each mower operational cost.... $7.50 X 5days= $37.5 mower expense

$120 truck expense/ 24hrs= $5 an hr.

$500,000 worth of liabity, annual premium is $730


$730/ 14 weeks= $52.14 a week/ 40 hrs= $1.30 an hr expense

$94 + $37.5 + $52.14= $183.14 week expense + $120 truck expense= $303.14 TOTAL(week)


uh kid you forgot the cost of expenses of somethings:

1) Truck Insurance
2) Business License Fees
3) CPA/Accountant Tax Prep & Filing for not only your Yearly 1040 but now the 940 & 941 forms that will be required with an employee.
4) Cost of equipment maintenence and wear on the trimmers and blower that you left off.
5) Trimmer/Blower Gas & Oil
6) Mower Oil
7) Truck Servicing
8) Blade sharpening and replacement
9) Bags (if you bag which you mentioned before you do)
10) Dump fees for the above if any
11) Truck Tags
12) Workers Comp Insurance for your new employee
13) Trimmer Line
14) Cost of Invoices (and time related to those)
15) Cost of time spent on Payroll and making the Monthly 941 Deposits you MUST make with that employee.
16) and I'm sure I forgot some others.

Point is there is more to running and owning a REAL Business than cutting and banking the money.

HOOLIE
05-31-2005, 08:34 PM
IF you feel like you REALLY need a helper, then hire the guy. But don't partner up with him. It's your company, you started it, you're the guy trying to build it...don't let some Johnny Come Lately with a little chump change slide right in and own half your biz. Doesn't make sense.

grassmanvt
05-31-2005, 08:44 PM
uh kid you forgot the cost of expenses of somethings:

1) Truck Insurance
2) Business License Fees
3) CPA/Accountant Tax Prep & Filing for not only your Yearly 1040 but now the 940 & 941 forms that will be required with an employee.
4) Cost of equipment maintenence and wear on the trimmers and blower that you left off.
5) Trimmer/Blower Gas & Oil
6) Mower Oil
7) Truck Servicing
8) Blade sharpening and replacement
9) Bags (if you bag which you mentioned before you do)
10) Dump fees for the above if any
11) Truck Tags
12) Workers Comp Insurance for your new employee
13) Trimmer Line
14) Cost of Invoices (and time related to those)
15) Cost of time spent on Payroll and making the Monthly 941 Deposits you MUST make with that employee.
16) and I'm sure I forgot some others.

Point is there is more to running and owning a REAL Business than cutting and banking the money.



Thats exactly what I was thinking, thanks for saving me some typing. As far as a partner. My feeling is avoid them like the plague. I have received many partnership offers and like someone already said, if someone sees you making money and have something already established of course they want to latch on. At this level of operation I just don't see why you would want a partner. I don't see the need for an employee either but if you must try that, its alot easier to get rid of an employee when the going gets tough than a partner. It can work but it usually doesn't. And your equipment investment at this point is very minimal, I don't see why you need to "unberden" those costs. I don't want to minimize your situation but if having $900 tied up in eqiupment is too much for you don't ever consider expanding. I know I'm not telling you what you want to hear but I would hate to see a "had to get rid of my partner" thread here next month.

SoloMow
05-31-2005, 08:52 PM
385 postings on LawnSite in 48 days? When do you pull equipment maintenance? :cool:

BALDEAGLE
05-31-2005, 11:58 PM
385 postings on LawnSite in 48 days? When do you pull equipment maintenance? :cool:
was wondering when someone would get to that.
thanks solo.

you've been given some very good advice here kid,listen to them.

deereman
06-01-2005, 12:08 AM
This just cant be happening............. :eek:

South Florida Lawns
06-01-2005, 12:24 AM
WEAR AND TARE/EQUIPMENT DEPRECIATION are important costs that should be factored into the expenses. Personally I would not go into partnership with him, also something must be up when everyone on here feels the same way. I am solo and can manage 63 a week with time to do maintenance on Fridays.

ToroLandscaper
06-01-2005, 12:29 AM
Not to be a jerk but if you are so dead set on having a partner then get one you are 17 if it falls through you got many years to go. If i were you i wouldnt but you seem pretty set on it so do it and forget about it. If it screws up live by the mistakes you make and 15 yards is kinda hard to get so i wouldnt depend on that. And you dont have that much equipment you have 2 push mowers and some other stuff (its not like you have 15 grand in equipment you have like 1 grand at the most) ....not very much so you arent that screwed if something falls through (which seems to happen alot). I WOULDNT IF I WERE YOU THATS ALL IM SAYING.