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Watkinslawnservice
06-03-2005, 06:30 PM
I just got a flyer hung on my door yesterday for lawn service. Not a very professional looking flyer, just black computer typing on white paper. Husband and wife team. They list their prices:

1/2 acre basic lot= $10.00
1/2 acre, steep hills, extensive trimming= $15.00
3/4 acre basic lot= $15.00
3/4 acre, steep hills, extensive trimming= $20.00

Fertilizer= $30.00
Weed killer= $30.00

Now at these prices I doubt that they have biz insurance and I really doubt that they have a Fert or Pesticide lisence. If they do then I have to say, more power to them if they want to work for these prices, but if they are not lisenced then that's where I get pissed. I have been asked to do a lot of fert/weed control work but turned it all down because I am not yet lisenced.

Should I call the phone # on the flyer and ask if they are Lisenced? If I do call, is there a lisence # I can ask for in Minnesota to check if they are telling the truth? Or should I just ignore them and hope they go away?

Thanks

Toy2
06-03-2005, 06:34 PM
Same issue here, family down the street is mowing...reason....the flier states " to make money for vacation trips"????It also states will beat any price on mowing...thinking of calling and telling them to mow my lawn for $13.00...save me the hassle....not sure what to do with these kind of people....

Watkinslawnservice
06-03-2005, 06:36 PM
I wouldn't care so much if not for the pesticide issue. I am thinking about turning them in if I find out there is no lisence.

HOOLIE
06-03-2005, 06:49 PM
I wouldn't bother ratting them out...it's more fun to watch them mow themselves into bankruptcy. :p

A+ Lawncare
06-03-2005, 06:51 PM
heck these ppl more than likely cut yards w/21'' mowers, (have u seen them mowing yet?) 2 ppl cuttin w/an 21'' mower they cut about .75-1 acre normal conditions.... in these guy's world a 3/4 acre goes for about $20, so thats $20 an hr.....

mpg for the caravan (ultimate scrub work truck) they use is probably about 16mpg, so on average they spend about $5-10 easily on fuel for the "work truck" a day... fuel for both of the 21'' a day runs about $6, so $8 (van gas)+$6(mower gas)= $14 day gas expense, figure another $5-10 for small expenses (no legal fees that the rest of us pay).... in a perfect world your booked for 8hrs of cuttin, but drive time and the like always kill ya, so figure 6.5 hrs of actual cutting & makin $... $20 X 6.5= $130

$130-$20= $110 per day... now divide $110 by 2 people, thats $55 a day (8hrs) $55/8hrs= $6.87 an hr

they'de be better off gettin a minium wage job @ mc donalds and save them some trouble.

SoloMow
06-03-2005, 06:56 PM
Dave,
You hit a direct bullseye with the pesticide treatments. It's one thing to be underbid, that's just business. It's quite another to be cheated. Like you, I am not licensed. I refer all customer requests for "weed and feed" to a local company. If I knew an unlicensed competitor in my area was cheating me out of accounts based solely on adding pesticide treatments, I would call the Texas Department of Agriculture immediately. I have a feeling Minnesota might even act more quickly than my state agency! :cool:

The mayor
06-03-2005, 07:22 PM
I also refer for weed and feed. It is the law here for a licence. It may take longer to get on the vacation when there is a fine involved. Have them do your lawn and then turn them in. Most likely you won't have to pay for the service. Hows that for beating anyones prices.

Watkinslawnservice
06-03-2005, 07:43 PM
Well, just to clarify, I don't know for sure that they are not lisenced. I am just speculating based on the pricing on the flyer. I need to somehow find out for sure before I go off half cocked.

Maybe I will have a friend call them for me. I am in a small town and if they see my name on the caller ID they may recognize it from the advertising I do.

Ric
06-03-2005, 07:48 PM
I wouldn't bother ratting them out...it's more fun to watch them mow themselves into bankruptcy. :p



Hoolie

I like a person with Common Sense and a good sense of humor. You have displaced both in this post. The unfortunate thing is, turning them in, Might be doing the poor soles a favor.

Lawnmedics
06-03-2005, 09:19 PM
calling somebody a scrub just cracks me up. I do not feel threatened by door hangers, flyiers, or any ads. A FAIR PRICE FOR A GOOD SERVICE is the basis of all econmomics. If you are abiding by this you should have nothing to worry about.

DennisF
06-03-2005, 09:51 PM
Ric has it right. If these people want to mow lawns for free...that's fine. But applying pesticides/herbicides without a license or the proper training is not only illegal, it's a threat to the environment. They obviously don't have clue on the chemical apps, since it would cost more than their selling price just for the chemicals.

I would flat out confront them on the chemical applicator license. You might be doing a lot of people a favor.

As far as mowing for $10-$15 a pop. Hire them to do your lawn while you're running your LCO.

Tharrell
06-03-2005, 10:01 PM
License-License-License-License-License-License-License-License-License
Don't waste your time. Worry about your own business. If you were busy, you wouldn't have time to worry about someone elses business.
If you feel this urge so strongly, get an application to work for the state. Then it WILL be your business.
Don't get me wrong, I am licensed. I have insurance. I pay taxes.
I do not have time (neither do I care) to worry about anyone else.

Precision
06-03-2005, 10:34 PM
License-License-License-License-License-License-License-License-License
Don't waste your time. Worry about your own business. If you were busy, you wouldn't have time to worry about someone elses business.
If you feel this urge so strongly, get an application to work for the state. Then it WILL be your business.
Don't get me wrong, I am licensed. I have insurance. I pay taxes.
I do not have time (neither do I care) to worry about anyone else.

The intelligent and well reasoned answer. For each unlicensed dummy you turn in two more pop up.

If they have no idea how to price they probably know just as much about most other parts of the business. Give them a month or two then they will disappear. The bad karma alone from turning them in makes it not worth it. Unless of course they are committing atrocities with the chemicals. Like the guy I caught draining his used (7 qts) motor oil into the drainage ditch that runs directly to the river.

Runner
06-03-2005, 11:24 PM
Hoolie
The unfortunate thing is, turning them in, Might be doing the poor soles a favor.

Actually, that is along the lines of what I was thinking. I don't believe they would get into actual trouble over it, but perhaps a good talk with the dept. of ag would "enlighten" them. It may possibly save some serious harm.

Lawnmedics
06-03-2005, 11:37 PM
Be competitive with your price and service and you have nothing to worry about.

Watkinslawnservice
06-03-2005, 11:41 PM
License-License-License-License-License-License-License-License-License
Don't waste your time. Worry about your own business. If you were busy, you wouldn't have time to worry about someone elses business.
If you feel this urge so strongly, get an application to work for the state. Then it WILL be your business.
Don't get me wrong, I am licensed. I have insurance. I pay taxes.
I do not have time (neither do I care) to worry about anyone else.

Actually I AM worrying about my own business. It is my business when I turned down and refered lots of work this year because I am not certified yet. If these people would happen to not be certified, why should I let them swoop in and take all of my potential clients for next year? They should have to go through the same steps I am going through.

Watkinslawnservice
06-03-2005, 11:44 PM
Be competitive with your price and service and you have nothing to worry about.
How can I be competitive with $10.00 per 1/2 acre? Do you work for that? Also, how can I be competitive on a service that I won't even perform because I want to be legal?

Lawnmedics
06-03-2005, 11:53 PM
All prices will equalize. I do everything within our power to maintain a growth percentage in my targeted areas to achieve saturation. We have grown 38 percent a year so far.

tjgray
06-04-2005, 12:02 AM
Dave if they are doing chem apps and fertilization for $30.00 then I can almost guarantee they are not licensed. Our lowest application for our smallest of lawns is more than that.

You might want to check out your Department of Agriculture website and see if there is an area with information regarding how to report suspected un-licensed applicators.

Kudos for walking the straight and narrow yourself and following the law. You have my respect for that :waving:

SodKing
06-04-2005, 12:14 AM
Call the Director of Pesticide Control direct. Once a complaint is filed they must investigate. It is the ethical and correct thing to do.

Watkinslawnservice
06-04-2005, 12:48 AM
All prices will equalize. I do everything within our power to maintain a growth percentage in my targeted areas to achieve saturation. We have grown 38 percent a year so far.
What the HECK does that have to do with having a pesticide lisence?

Tharrell
06-04-2005, 06:41 AM
I hope I didn't piss you off, but I did get you to spell Lisence correctly though.
I did what you're doing and it just ate me up inside. I worked 3rd shift at a convenience store so I could build my business during the day. I submitted a bid and didn't get it. I should have had it and later found out the manager I confided in told her buddy my bid and he underbid me. Well, he wasn't spraying the weeds and they got unbelievable. Bull thistle was about 5 feet high before he did anything. I could tell he didn't have a lisence by the way he was trying to kill the weeds. The long and the short, he got stopped by the department of ag and was warned it would be $500 for each infraction (9). He didn't bid this year (went out of biz) and I got the work. Unfortunatley they said I couldn't work 3rd and have the contract for the lawns.
BEST THING THAT EVER HAPPENED TO ME IN THIS BIZ!
I've picked up more customers this year AND just got a 3 year contract to mow 2 weigh stations on the interstate (year round).
My point is, there are a ton of people out there spraying roundup and there always will be. Don't waste your time on them. Get busy and you won't be concerned about them. I remember how all I thought about was this guy and what he was doing. When I let go of it, I started to roll.
I worried about a couple of customers I lost and almost worried myself sick about them. Be the duck, let it roll right off your back and move on. Same advice about the guy with the sprayer. Friends?

SodKing
06-04-2005, 07:37 AM
I hope I didn't piss you off, but I did get you to spell Lisence correctly though.



Ahhh..........you spelled license wrong...;)

walker-talker
06-04-2005, 09:13 AM
Well, just to clarify, I don't know for sure that they are not lisenced. I am just speculating based on the pricing on the flyer. I need to somehow find out for sure before I go off half cocked.

Maybe I will have a friend call them for me. I am in a small town and if they see my name on the caller ID they may recognize it from the advertising I do.I am not sure what the laws are in your state, but in the State of KS you are entitled to public records of who is licensed and who is not....and yes I have applied for them to check on some of my competition. I personally had to apply for the records in writing, some states will allow you to view them on the internet, Iowa comes to mind.

Good luck
Matt

tjgray
06-04-2005, 02:44 PM
I hope I didn't piss you off, but I did get you to spell Lisence correctly though.
I did what you're doing and it just ate me up inside. I worked 3rd shift at a convenience store so I could build my business during the day. I submitted a bid and didn't get it. I should have had it and later found out the manager I confided in told her buddy my bid and he underbid me. Well, he wasn't spraying the weeds and they got unbelievable. Bull thistle was about 5 feet high before he did anything. I could tell he didn't have a license by the way he was trying to kill the weeds. The long and the short, he got stopped by the department of ag and was warned it would be $500 for each infraction (9). He didn't bid this year (went out of biz) and I got the work. Unfortunately they said I couldn't work 3rd and have the contract for the lawns.
BEST THING THAT EVER HAPPENED TO ME IN THIS BIZ!
I've picked up more customers this year AND just got a 3 year contract to mow 2 weigh stations on the interstate (year round).
My point is, there are a ton of people out there spraying roundup and there always will be. Don't waste your time on them. Get busy and you won't be concerned about them. I remember how all I thought about was this guy and what he was doing. When I let go of it, I started to roll.
I worried about a couple of customers I lost and almost worried myself sick about them. Be the duck, let it roll right off your back and move on. Same advice about the guy with the sprayer. Friends?

Of course you can't let it eat you up but if you think the amount of folks out there that are applying chemicals/doing landscaping without the knowledge and the requirements by law to do so is not concerning and think that something shouldn't be done about them, then in my opinion you don't have very much passion for the industry we all chose to make our livings in.

I believe it is those that think they are above the law and that don't have to follow the rules *ignorance of the law is no excuse* are the worst thing thats happening in this industry. They bring prices down because they can afford to, they apply chemicals or use equipment in a dangerous fashion as they are not educated nor do they understand how complex the actual art of professionalism really is....just bad in my book.

Now I know, I know :)....most of the above won't be in business long....but how long do they get to muck things up in the industry before this happens? Frankly I think it is time for those of us who do strive to bring professionalism to the industry do more than just complain. Step up and actively do more. Heck yes Dave *and anyone else* contact your Department of Agriculture if you suspect illegal chemical applications. Strive toward educating yourself and others in the various different areas of the green industry. You can't turn a blind eye to things. If we are all to busy to do even the smallest part then nothing ever changes.

My apologies if I seem to rant but it is a subject that I feel very passionate regarding. I hope everyone's weekend goes well :waving:

Tharrell
06-04-2005, 06:11 PM
DOH!!! I did spell it wrong! Boy, the doodoo is on me now!

trying 2b organic
06-04-2005, 06:45 PM
Its perfectly ok to get angry about not having a level playing field. Its different then being afraid of competition or not being efficient enough. Its the unfair advantage due to breaking laws and regulations that he is concerned about and he should be. It does hurt all of us when this goes on.

Bret's Lawn Care
06-04-2005, 08:02 PM
what was the "companies:" name and where are they
out of?

Nathan 281
06-04-2005, 10:45 PM
what was the "companies:" name and where are they
out of?
I would like to know that to 15 - $20 they can do mine. I was not even that cheap when i first started.

Watkinslawnservice
06-04-2005, 10:50 PM
what was the "companies:" name and where are they
out of?
This "company" doesn't have a name. It just says Lawn Service at the top of the Flyer. I hesitate to outright turn them in if they are not certified because I have a feeling that they may not even know that what they are doinf is illegal. I am thinking that first I will call them and see if they are legit and if they are not I will educate them. If they continue then I will turn them in.

Watkinslawnservice
06-04-2005, 11:01 PM
I hope I didn't piss you off, but I did get you to spell Lisence correctly though.
I did what you're doing and it just ate me up inside. I worked 3rd shift at a convenience store so I could build my business during the day. I submitted a bid and didn't get it. I should have had it and later found out the manager I confided in told her buddy my bid and he underbid me. Well, he wasn't spraying the weeds and they got unbelievable. Bull thistle was about 5 feet high before he did anything. I could tell he didn't have a lisence by the way he was trying to kill the weeds. The long and the short, he got stopped by the department of ag and was warned it would be $500 for each infraction (9). He didn't bid this year (went out of biz) and I got the work. Unfortunatley they said I couldn't work 3rd and have the contract for the lawns.
BEST THING THAT EVER HAPPENED TO ME IN THIS BIZ!
I've picked up more customers this year AND just got a 3 year contract to mow 2 weigh stations on the interstate (year round).
My point is, there are a ton of people out there spraying roundup and there always will be. Don't waste your time on them. Get busy and you won't be concerned about them. I remember how all I thought about was this guy and what he was doing. When I let go of it, I started to roll.
I worried about a couple of customers I lost and almost worried myself sick about them. Be the duck, let it roll right off your back and move on. Same advice about the guy with the sprayer. Friends?
You didn't piss me off, (well Ok maybe when you corrected my spelling you did a little). I know everyone is entitled to thier opinion and it just so happens that on this occasion I do not agree with yours.

Don't get me wrong, I could care less about the competition. If they want to mow lawns for $1.00 they can go ahead, I couldn't care less. They can spray lawns for .50 cents too for all I care but they had better be Lisenced or Licensed or whatever the hell it is. What eats me is all the extra $ I could have made this summer that I turned down and they come in and take it all, Illegaly!

What happened to you I will say was rotten and down right dirty pool, but at least there was nothing illeagal about it. I don't care if these people come in and steal all of my $30 lawns and make $10 because I know that they won't last and my customers will likely come crawling back to me. But I have a feeling that these people need an education more than anything, and I am getting worked up enough to give them one right now.

Mower63
06-04-2005, 11:51 PM
Interesting thread for sure....seems that if I spent all my time turning in all the fly by night lawn service operators in my account areas I'd never have enough time to run my business. I agree it sucks potentially losing business to an unlicensed operator but time will get them in the end. Anybody that charges $10 - $15 to mow .75 acre is doing the work for free and they won't last anyway.

I say you ignore them and it'll go away. Maybe even fight fire with fire....say...spread fliers in the same areas the highlight your professionalism, attention to detail, etc. Your basic 'you pay for what you get' type advertising. After these clowns start screwing up yards you can get in there and show the customers why they need you....and they'll have to pay more to get everything straigthened out $$$$.

There is always a way to take advantage of the situation. Just my .02

lawncarepros2004
06-05-2005, 12:32 AM
yep same ole story. i think i'll start subcontracting my accounts to some of the scrubby nutz lowballers in my town and still make a good profit.

northwest lawn
06-05-2005, 12:39 AM
in my opinion when everybody is talking about the scrubs... why is it a big deal... if u do quality work you shouldnt have to worry about it. is it that u feel threatened? again if u do quality work dont worry who cares if they undercut they wont make it at their prices let them go its just petty to call them because they left a door hanger

topsites
06-05-2005, 12:42 AM
Same issue here, family down the street is mowing...reason....the flier states " to make money for vacation trips"????It also states will beat any price on mowing...thinking of calling and telling them to mow my lawn for $13.00...save me the hassle....not sure what to do with these kind of people....

Well now I love those flyers! I keep any flyer that says 'will beat any price' and then hand them out to some low-baller who doesn't want to pay my price and I say: Well I'm sorry I can't help you, but look at this flyer I found the other day and check it out... Let me give you a written estimate, then call this phone number and when they get here, they have to beat this here price I'm about to give you. Now I'll go ahead and take 5 dollars off and if you like, I'll do the yard at the 5-dollar off price, but if you call them, they'll do it even cheaper.
Works like a charm.

The only time I get real frustrated is when someone flyers the mailbox of a yard I am currently working on. If you thought the previous idea was nasty, you don't want to know what I do to someone who puts a flyer in the mailbox of a yard I'm working on.

Actually the first idea really isn't that nasty. Considering my prices are up there with the rest, 10 dollars off isn't that bad a deal for someone without all the commercial expenses.

But other than that, I don't waste much time with those guys. They're just making a little extra cash and truth be known, they satisfy those customers that can't or aren't willing to pay my price so in the end it's a win-win anyway.

Peace

allenh60
06-05-2005, 12:49 AM
I wouldn't turn them in. I would consider it all business. If they want to mow that cheap and can, with or with out a license, more power to them. I don't see where it's actually hurting any of us. There are always going to be under bidders. I have kids come to my door often asking if they can mow my yard for 10.00 .

yrdandgardenhandyman
06-05-2005, 12:58 AM
The only time lowballers got work from me was on the bid on jobs I found out I didn't really want anyway. One was last week.

http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=107820

Anyway, I drove by the next day and the yard looked like a hayfield waiting to be baled. It was literally windrowed. Apparently the h.o. was satisfied cause she, her kids and dogs were sitting out on lawn chairs, enjoying the day. The sad aprt is that the other lco made virtually no money on the deal and probably beat the hell out of that Crapsman mower. Not exactly a threat. Cheap slobs need lawn care sometimes too. :laugh:

DALMlawn&landscaping
06-05-2005, 01:10 AM
damn! (or dang) anyways, i got my license, and i dont charge no one, haha, sorry i work on a ranch and i make sh** (or nothing), all y'all are making this huge deal about your app. lic. and blah blah, but seriously, was your app. lic. that hard to come by? it took me 5 hours, 25 buck for the books, no effort, and 60 bucks for the license.... who can't do that... anyways, these guys, or wife and husband team probably just spread scott's weed and feed. chiiiillllll, everyone will find out soon enough that they suck, and then its business for you! but if they are scrubs, i would sell them on the side, ferilizer - aka water softener - and then advertise ohhh, a few days later and someone who knows what they're doing, hahaha, sorrry, thats mean.

Watkinslawnservice
06-05-2005, 01:18 AM
in my opinion when everybody is talking about the scrubs... why is it a big deal... if u do quality work you shouldnt have to worry about it. is it that u feel threatened? again if u do quality work dont worry who cares if they undercut they wont make it at their prices let them go its just petty to call them because they left a door hanger
Some of you guys just don't get it do you? It's not about price, It's not about price, It's not about price. How many times do I have to say it?

They can cut for FREE for all I care but they cant do fert and weed aps without a license. Period.

Watkinslawnservice
06-05-2005, 01:20 AM
I wouldn't turn them in. I would consider it all business. If they want to mow that cheap and can, with or with out a license, more power to them. I don't see where it's actually hurting any of us. There are always going to be under bidders. I have kids come to my door often asking if they can mow my yard for 10.00 .
You don't get it.

Watkinslawnservice
06-05-2005, 01:21 AM
damn! (or dang) anyways, i got my license, and i dont charge no one, haha, sorry i work on a ranch and i make sh** (or nothing), all y'all are making this huge deal about your app. lic. and blah blah, but seriously, was your app. lic. that hard to come by? it took me 5 hours, 25 buck for the books, no effort, and 60 bucks for the license.... who can't do that... anyways, these guys, or wife and husband team probably just spread scott's weed and feed. chiiiillllll, everyone will find out soon enough that they suck, and then its business for you! but if they are scrubs, i would sell them on the side, ferilizer - aka water softener - and then advertise ohhh, a few days later and someone who knows what they're doing, hahaha, sorrry, thats mean.
You don't get it either.

allenh60
06-05-2005, 01:22 AM
Some of you guys just don't get it do you? It's not about price, It's not about price, It's not about price. How many times do I have to say it?

They can cut for FREE for all I care but they cant do fert and weed aps without a license. Period.

What is sooooooo wrong about them doing fert and weed apps w/out a license?

Watkinslawnservice
06-05-2005, 01:34 AM
What is sooooooo wrong about them doing fert and weed apps w/out a license?
Obviosly you REALLY don't get it.

IT IS THE LAW.

I am not doing aps because, IT IS THE LAW!

Why would you stand by and let someone take your potential customers by performing a service ILLEGALLY?

Now if I found out that another LCO did an ap on a customers lawn that they already mow for, that would be another story. Its only 1 ap and its already his customer. I wouldn't be so upset. But this guy is ADVERTISING aps. I do not advertise aps because I am not certified and IT IS THE LAW!

So to answer your question, EVERYTHING!

txlawnking
06-05-2005, 01:40 AM
If them "stealing" the work from you because they are un licensed bugs you so much, why don't you just go get a license of your own.
Then you no longer have to turn down the work they've "stolen" from you by being unlicensed...
Then politely aproach them and explain the law to them.. They may be unaware that it is against the law, to apply without a license.

allenh60
06-05-2005, 01:45 AM
Obviosly you REALLY don't get it.

IT IS THE LAW.

I am not doing aps because, IT IS THE LAW!

Why would you stand by and let someone take your potential customers by performing a service ILLEGALLY?

Now if I found out that another LCO did an ap on a customers lawn that they already mow for, that would be another story. Its only 1 ap and its already his customer. I wouldn't be so upset. But this guy is ADVERTISING aps. I do not advertise aps because I am not certified and IT IS THE LAW!

So to answer your question, EVERYTHING!


OK, it is the law. I personally don't like the law. But to each his own. I just figure if it's not hurting you, then why let it worry you. That's just my 2 cents though you see. I'm not trying to argue or put you down in any way. You posted a question and I am simply replying to it. Some innocent people are trying to make a few extra bucks and probably don't even know that it is against the law and you want to turn them in. Why don't you try calling them and explaining to them THE LAW. Then maybe they won't break it and you can sleep better.

tjgray
06-05-2005, 02:20 AM
Don't you all see that fly by night operations that operate without the proper licenses or insurance hurts everyone of us? Un-professionalism hurts the industry as a whole by lowering standards. You guys gripe all day long about not getting a fair price or a customers respect and then come out with outrageous statements such as who cares if your in this business legitimately or not? I just worry about myself :dizzy: Our jobs already have too many restrictions put on it already as far as I am concerned. It is the innocent and ignorant folks out there doing business *I don't care if it is mowing, or spraying* without caring enough to have the proper license and insurance that continue to give fuel for those that would see this industry limited to hand clippers and organics.

If there are so many of these types of fly by night operations in your area that it would take up your entire day to educate/report them then that indeed is a pretty frightening thought.

Because you are busy is no excuse for not setting industry standards. If you turn your back on the industry as a whole and are only in this for yourself then you certainly have no right what so ever to complain when the industry doesn't respect you back.

And yes pretty much anyone can go and pay the fees to be licensed and insured but it takes a true professional to make sure he is armed with the knowledge and equipment to do the job right.

DALMlawn&landscaping
06-05-2005, 02:25 AM
haha, "you don't get it" haha, thats awesome, you dont get it

Watkinslawnservice
06-05-2005, 03:03 PM
If them "stealing" the work from you because they are un licensed bugs you so much, why don't you just go get a license of your own.
Then you no longer have to turn down the work they've "stolen" from you by being unlicensed...
Then politely aproach them and explain the law to them.. They may be unaware that it is against the law, to apply without a license.
I am in the process of obtaining my license. It is not something you do overnight, but printing flyers that say you will apply fert and weed control for $30 is.

And if you would read my posts I have stated several times that my intentions are to educate them of the law first and if that does no good THEN I will turn them in.

Watkinslawnservice
06-05-2005, 03:10 PM
OK, it is the law. I personally don't like the law. But to each his own. I just figure if it's not hurting you, then why let it worry you. That's just my 2 cents though you see. I'm not trying to argue or put you down in any way. You posted a question and I am simply replying to it. Some innocent people are trying to make a few extra bucks and probably don't even know that it is against the law and you want to turn them in. Why don't you try calling them and explaining to them THE LAW. Then maybe they won't break it and you can sleep better.
PLEASE READ MY POSTS!!!!!! I have stated all along that I would rather educate then then turn them in. I don't like turning anyone in for anything.

And it IS hurting me if they take even one client that I could have next year when I am LEGIT. It is money right down the drain because what they are doing is conditioning customers to expect to pay $30 for fert aps. Do you do them for that?

Watkinslawnservice
06-05-2005, 03:19 PM
haha, "you don't get it" haha, thats awesome, you dont get it
No, I am pretty sure that it is you who does not get it.

If you are happy to make sh** working on a ranch, that is up to you. I want to make money in this biz legitly.

Are you even in the Lawn service biz? If not then you SURELY DON"T GET IT. And it looks like there are probably other things in life that you don't get.

Watkinslawnservice
06-05-2005, 03:28 PM
Don't you all see that fly by night operations that operate without the proper licenses or insurance hurts everyone of us? Un-professionalism hurts the industry as a whole by lowering standards. You guys gripe all day long about not getting a fair price or a customers respect and then come out with outrageous statements such as who cares if your in this business legitimately or not? I just worry about myself :dizzy: Our jobs already have too many restrictions put on it already as far as I am concerned. It is the innocent and ignorant folks out there doing business *I don't care if it is mowing, or spraying* without caring enough to have the proper license and insurance that continue to give fuel for those that would see this industry limited to hand clippers and organics.

If there are so many of these types of fly by night operations in your area that it would take up your entire day to educate/report them then that indeed is a pretty frightening thought.

Because you are busy is no excuse for not setting industry standards. If you turn your back on the industry as a whole and are only in this for yourself then you certainly have no right what so ever to complain when the industry doesn't respect you back.

And yes pretty much anyone can go and pay the fees to be licensed and insured but it takes a true professional to make sure he is armed with the knowledge and equipment to do the job right.
EXACTLY!!!!

Watkinslawnservice
06-05-2005, 03:33 PM
haha, "you don't get it" haha, thats awesome, you dont get it
I see from a past post that you quit the lawn biz to go and be a ranch hand. Could the reason that you could not make it in this business be that you just DON'T GET IT?

allenh60
06-05-2005, 04:58 PM
PLEASE READ MY POSTS!!!!!! I have stated all along that I would rather educate then then turn them in. I don't like turning anyone in for anything.

And it IS hurting me if they take even one client that I could have next year when I am LEGIT. It is money right down the drain because what they are doing is conditioning customers to expect to pay $30 for fert aps. Do you do them for that?

No I don't do the fert apps yet because I don't have a license, but, it would'nt bother me in the least if every one around me did it for 30.00 with no license. And if my customers ask me to do it then I will with no license and charge them about 30.00 for doing it.

tjgray
06-05-2005, 05:17 PM
And if my customers ask me to do it then I will with no license and charge them about 30.00 for doing it.

Why is that? Do you think that the laws are just stupid and you are better then everyone else and above such trivial matters?

Better hope The Florida Department of Agriculture doesn't catch you doing so...or that you don't wind up burning someones lawn up/and or making an area LCO upset at you. You sir bring shame to this industry and are my definition of a scrub :(

nobagger
06-05-2005, 05:19 PM
I just got a flyer hung on my door yesterday for lawn service. Not a very professional looking flyer, just black computer typing on white paper. Husband and wife team. They list their prices:

1/2 acre basic lot= $10.00
1/2 acre, steep hills, extensive trimming= $15.00
3/4 acre basic lot= $15.00
3/4 acre, steep hills, extensive trimming= $20.00

Fertilizer= $30.00
Weed killer= $30.00

Now at these prices I doubt that they have biz insurance and I really doubt that they have a Fert or Pesticide lisence. If they do then I have to say, more power to them if they want to work for these prices, but if they are not lisenced then that's where I get pissed. I have been asked to do a lot of fert/weed control work but turned it all down because I am not yet lisenced.

Should I call the phone # on the flyer and ask if they are Lisenced? If I do call, is there a lisence # I can ask for in Minnesota to check if they are telling the truth? Or should I just ignore them and hope they go away?

Thanks
We have a new "lawn care service" advertising $45-$65 a month any size lawn. That was last months ad. This month its $55-$75 a month any size lawn. He has absolutley no idea what to charge. No name with the ad just a phone number and says to leave message. But they are just mowing not spreading fert. I would call them on that! If you and every one else has to be licensed why not them? I don't belive in some of the attitudes in here about not being a threat to you etc. I belive that every one with a mower is a threat on some level. Just my opinion. :waving:

T Edwards
06-05-2005, 10:59 PM
They must be vacationing "in-state" this year at those prices. Most likely a campground will be all they can afford.

Pecker
06-05-2005, 11:09 PM
I say mind your own business. . .

Dashunde
06-05-2005, 11:27 PM
Found a flyer on the door the other day too.

"Any yard $20"

I watched this clown mow my neighbors yard, just one step short of running with his Personal Pace Toro 21". He was getting a lousy cut with that mulcher too... cant go that fast, I have one.
He hauls it around in a Jeep. This guy is old... go figure.

allenh60
06-05-2005, 11:33 PM
Why is that? Do you think that the laws are just stupid and you are better then everyone else and above such trivial matters?

Better hope The Florida Department of Agriculture doesn't catch you doing so...or that you don't wind up burning someones lawn up/and or making an area LCO upset at you. You sir bring shame to this industry and are my definition of a scrub :(

As a matter of fact, I do think alot of laws are stupid, but that is really irrellevant. I don't know why you choose to get so personal. But I don't think I'm better than everyone else if that will make you feel any better. If I were worried about burning someones lawn up, then I would't chance it. But being that I have done this type of work for about 15 years, I think I can spread fertilizer without burning someone's lawn up. Now since we are voicing opinions to each other about each other, first I must say that I am very thankful to God above for giving me the ability to not let a stool pigeon (that'd be you) voice an opinion that would bother me in the least. I feel sorry for people like you. You are definately the type of person that puts people down in hope to raise yourself up. I consider that a disease you must have been born with. You probably got beat up all through your school years, had your lunch money taken from you, books knocked out of your hand constantly, etc.
So now to get back at the world for how you were treated in your youth, you tattle on people and lay down at night and tell your wife or husband what a good deed you have done. Your the type of person that would love to see someone sent to prison for calling you a bad name or looking at you wrong. You probably spy on your neighbors hoping to catch them doing something wrong so you can call the ever so wonderful law. So now we have both voiced our opinions about each other. This all started from you asking what we think you should do, I gave you my opinion and you decided to get all upset and call me a scrub. Now on a more mature level, call the law and tell on them, I don't care. I apologize for ever answering your question to start with. May God bless you.

Watkinslawnservice
06-05-2005, 11:46 PM
As a matter of fact, I do think alot of laws are stupid, but that is really irrellevant. I don't know why you choose to get so personal. But I don't think I'm better than everyone else if that will make you feel any better. If I were worried about burning someones lawn up, then I would't chance it. But being that I have done this type of work for about 15 years, I think I can spread fertilizer without burning someone's lawn up. Now since we are voicing opinions to each other about each other, first I must say that I am very thankful to God above for giving me the ability to not let a stool pigeon (that'd be you) voice an opinion that would bother me in the least. I feel sorry for people like you. You are definately the type of person that puts people down in hope to raise yourself up. I consider that a disease you must have been born with. You probably got beat up all through your school years, had your lunch money taken from you, books knocked out of your hand constantly, etc.
So now to get back at the world for how you were treated in your youth, you tattle on people and lay down at night and tell your wife or husband what a good deed you have done. Your the type of person that would love to see someone sent to prison for calling you a bad name or looking at you wrong. You probably spy on your neighbors hoping to catch them doing something wrong so you can call the ever so wonderful law. So now we have both voiced our opinions about each other. This all started from you asking what we think you should do, I gave you my opinion and you decided to get all upset and call me a scrub. Now on a more mature level, call the law and tell on them, I don't care. I apologize for ever answering your question to start with. May God bless you.
#1. God has nothing to do with this

#2. You are talking to the wrong guy! I am the one who posed the question. So who are you talking to?

#3. Your attitude about this leads me to believe that you have something to hide.

#4. If you have been doing this work for 15 years, why on earth wouldn't you have gotten a fert and pest license by now, or at least found a company who does to sub this kind of work out to?

#5. You seem to know a lot about getting beat-up in school. Are you sure this wasn't you?

allenh60
06-05-2005, 11:57 PM
You think?
I was talking to who ever called me a scrub. Oh, by the way God has something to do with everything.

lawnworker
06-06-2005, 01:01 AM
Getting back to the original post. I wonder how Michael Corleone would handle this.

tjgray
06-06-2005, 01:44 AM
I was talking to who ever called me a scrub. Oh, by the way God has something to do with everything.

You were talking to me but then you let yourself get all confused and got your facts all mixed up *kinda humorous it was:D*. In fact if you had spent any amount of time reading on here you would know that most of your opinions are indeed in-correct but thats not really for me to prove nor do I care too :)

My definition of a scrub is anyone who provides a service for sale without the proper insurance or licenses *that goes for any type of business*. I have about as much respect for them as I do un-insured motorist, thieves, and liars. As long as you are providing a service and not abiding by the laws and regulations that everyone else is required to follow then you are nothing more than a scrub in my opinion.

If you have been in this industry for 15 years why don't you respect it enough to be legit?

And lastly since you bring God into this....Quite honestly I do not believe He would have taught/approved of anything past his name in your post :)

SodKing
06-06-2005, 07:56 PM
As a matter of fact, I do think alot of laws are stupid, but that is really irrellevant. I don't know why you choose to get so personal. But I don't think I'm better than everyone else if that will make you feel any better. If I were worried about burning someones lawn up, then I would't chance it. But being that I have done this type of work for about 15 years, I think I can spread fertilizer without burning someone's lawn up. Now since we are voicing opinions to each other about each other, first I must say that I am very thankful to God above for giving me the ability to not let a stool pigeon (that'd be you) voice an opinion that would bother me in the least. I feel sorry for people like you. You are definately the type of person that puts people down in hope to raise yourself up. I consider that a disease you must have been born with. You probably got beat up all through your school years, had your lunch money taken from you, books knocked out of your hand constantly, etc.
So now to get back at the world for how you were treated in your youth, you tattle on people and lay down at night and tell your wife or husband what a good deed you have done. Your the type of person that would love to see someone sent to prison for calling you a bad name or looking at you wrong. You probably spy on your neighbors hoping to catch them doing something wrong so you can call the ever so wonderful law. So now we have both voiced our opinions about each other. This all started from you asking what we think you should do, I gave you my opinion and you decided to get all upset and call me a scrub. Now on a more mature level, call the law and tell on them, I don't care. I apologize for ever answering your question to start with. May God bless you.


Boy have you got Tara wrong...

I think nothing of reporting an unlicensed application in and I sleep well at night. It is the ethical thing to do as I hold a license to apply pestices. If you apply without a license you may not be a scrub but I would classify you in with liars and cheats. If you operate without insurance you are a scrub.

northwest lawn
06-06-2005, 08:14 PM
it amazes me how a post goes from wanting advice to aruging with each other over who is a scrub and who isnt a scrub pretty damn funny and pathetic too.

allenh60
06-06-2005, 09:56 PM
Boy have you got Tara wrong...

I think nothing of reporting an unlicensed application in and I sleep well at night. It is the ethical thing to do as I hold a license to apply pestices. If you apply without a license you may not be a scrub but I would classify you in with liars and cheats. If you operate without insurance you are a scrub.

Well I guess I may be a scrub then. But I am not a liar or a cheater. If my customers ask me to do something I don't have a license for, I explain it to them that I don't have a license but I know how to do it and if they still want me to I will. As for being a scrub, well I don't want to be a scrub but right at this very moment, I can't afford to not be one. And again, I never advertise that I have insurance. I just got tired of working for a boss and figured I knew as much as he did if not more, so I decided to go on my own and see how I do. Getting insurance is definately in my plans. Right now I am working with a 1990 chevy suburban pulling a little skinny boat trailer made into a ugly utility trailor, a cub cadet 21" walk behind, a ryobi weed eater that takes attatchments and a polan pro blower. I'm trying to get to where all of yall are and doing what ever I got to do to get there. Just trying to make it man.

allenh60
06-06-2005, 10:04 PM
Just for the record fellows, I did'nt mean to offend anyone in this post, I guess I should have kept my mouth shut and kept my opinions to myself. I came here to seek knowledge that I might not already have, not to argue.

allenh60
06-06-2005, 10:05 PM
Getting back to the original post. I wonder how Michael Corleone would handle this.
LOL, I love that.

nitrotim
06-06-2005, 10:10 PM
There was a mexican in a VAN who was cutting with a 21" craftsman in the area where I have some accounts including a relative. He was leaving his cards at my customers houses. So someone I know used a phone booth and called him and asked him for his tax ID number. :angel: I haven't seen him around in awile.

The C Man
06-06-2005, 10:26 PM
If my customers ask me to do something I don't have a license for, I explain it to them that I don't have a license but I know how to do it and if they still want me to I will.
LOL, then why even bother telling them you don't have a license if you're going to do it anyway?

Getting insurance is definately in my plans. Right now I am working with a 1990 chevy suburban pulling a little skinny boat trailer made into a ugly utility trailor, a cub cadet 21" walk behind, a ryobi weed eater that takes attatchments and a polan pro blower.
So you haven't really been "in the business" for 15 years like it says in your profile then, maybe just mowing lawns for 15 years.

allenh60
06-06-2005, 10:32 PM
[QUOTE=The C Man]LOL, then why even bother telling them you don't have a license if you're going to do it anyway?
I let them know just incase they don't want a non licensed person to do it.

tjgray
06-06-2005, 10:33 PM
I'm trying to get to where all of yall are and doing what ever I got to do to get there. Just trying to make it man.

I am not sure where thats at as we are all on so many different levels :confused:

As for myself, I know all about being broke and just trying to make it. Trust me when I say I have the mortgage, kids *teenagers* and debts to back that statement up. Regardless if funds are tight or not, I care enough about this industry and am enough of a professional to make sure if nothing else we are legit.

I know I may come across as harsh on this subject but it is because we have stretched ourselves to cover the additional insurance *not to mention yearly continuing education and test and license fees* to legally apply chemicals that I have very little patience or respect for those that do not make the same efforts.

If you truly want to make it in this industry and you truly have its best interest at heart you will find the funds to do the job legally. Anything else only lowers standards and hurts us all in the end :)

allenh60
06-06-2005, 10:34 PM
[/QUOTE]
So you haven't really been "in the business" for 15 years like it says in your profile then, maybe just mowing lawns for 15 years.[/QUOTE]

I have been in the business for about 15 years working under a boss. Sorry if anyone was mis informed.

Watkinslawnservice
06-07-2005, 11:19 PM
Well I guess I may be a scrub then. But I am not a liar or a cheater. If my customers ask me to do something I don't have a license for, I explain it to them that I don't have a license but I know how to do it and if they still want me to I will. As for being a scrub, well I don't want to be a scrub but right at this very moment, I can't afford to not be one. And again, I never advertise that I have insurance. I just got tired of working for a boss and figured I knew as much as he did if not more, so I decided to go on my own and see how I do. Getting insurance is definately in my plans. Right now I am working with a 1990 chevy suburban pulling a little skinny boat trailer made into a ugly utility trailor, a cub cadet 21" walk behind, a ryobi weed eater that takes attatchments and a polan pro blower. I'm trying to get to where all of yall are and doing what ever I got to do to get there. Just trying to make it man.

I respect the fact that you don't want to argue. I am not here to argue either. But you have to see that admiting that you do fert aps without a license and run your biz without insurance is going to get you nothing but grief on this forum. The(hopefully)vast majority of folks who use this site are professional business men and women or aspiring to be.

So what do ya say we bury the hatchet? All I would like to do is leave you with some parting advise, if you want to call it advise from a newcomer to this industry.

You really should look into some liability insurance. You say that you can't afford it but I will argue that you can't afford to be without it. Buying insurance was one of the 1st things I did when starting this biz. It only costs me $550/year and I didn't do any shopping around for a lower price because I have a friend in the insurance biz, so you may be able to find some even cheaper. I made sure I had it before I did my very 1st spring clean-up this spring. It is pretty cheap peace of mind. I don't want to have to lay awake at night wondering what would happen to me if I put a rock through a patio door or ran into something with my mower or hit a gas line with my aerator, or worse, if I hurt someone.

Next on the agenda is a license. Why not just go out and get one? If you have 15 years of knowledge about this biz it should be a snap for you. I don't know how things are in your state but here in minnesota it is only $100 for a fert license(no test) and something like $75 for a pesticide license plus about $60 in study material for the test. You would make that money back in no time by advertising applications, and you would have the piece of mind of being LEGAL, not to mention having that certification to show potential clients.

Well, I am done ranting and lecturing you now. I know that I don't do everything perfectly either but I believe that if you want to make it in business, especially one as cut-throught as this one, you need to do it right and invest in your self.

By the way, if anyone still cares about the original topic of this thread, I have tried calling the # on the flyer 3 or 4 times now and all I get is an answering machine. I will keep trying though.

lawnwizards
06-08-2005, 12:26 AM
There was a mexican in a VAN who was cutting with a 21" craftsman in the area where I have some accounts including a relative. He was leaving his cards at my customers houses. So someone I know used a phone booth and called him and asked him for his tax ID number. :angel: I haven't seen him around in awile.
to be fair to the mexican. some people don't have tax ID numbers, they use their social security # and they don't want everyone on the planet to know it because what little they might have, they may not have in the future. :waving:

Ed Ryder
06-08-2005, 02:32 AM
If somebody was passing out fliers like that in my area, I could care less. They're fools. Why bother wasting brain power on them? People like that are just not in my league. Period.

allenh60
06-08-2005, 09:08 AM
If somebody was passing out fliers like that in my area, I could care less. They're fools. Why bother wasting brain power on them? People like that are just not in my league. Period.

I totally agree!!!!

allenh60
06-08-2005, 09:23 AM
I respect the fact that you don't want to argue. I am not here to argue either. But you have to see that admiting that you do fert aps without a license and run your biz without insurance is going to get you nothing but grief on this forum. The(hopefully)vast majority of folks who use this site are professional business men and women or aspiring to be.

So what do ya say we bury the hatchet? All I would like to do is leave you with some parting advise, if you want to call it advise from a newcomer to this industry.

You really should look into some liability insurance. You say that you can't afford it but I will argue that you can't afford to be without it. Buying insurance was one of the 1st things I did when starting this biz. It only costs me $550/year and I didn't do any shopping around for a lower price because I have a friend in the insurance biz, so you may be able to find some even cheaper. I made sure I had it before I did my very 1st spring clean-up this spring. It is pretty cheap peace of mind. I don't want to have to lay awake at night wondering what would happen to me if I put a rock through a patio door or ran into something with my mower or hit a gas line with my aerator, or worse, if I hurt someone.

Next on the agenda is a license. Why not just go out and get one? If you have 15 years of knowledge about this biz it should be a snap for you. I don't know how things are in your state but here in minnesota it is only $100 for a fert license(no test) and something like $75 for a pesticide license plus about $60 in study material for the test. You would make that money back in no time by advertising applications, and you would have the piece of mind of being LEGAL, not to mention having that certification to show potential clients.

Well, I am done ranting and lecturing you now. I know that I don't do everything perfectly either but I believe that if you want to make it in business, especially one as cut-throught as this one, you need to do it right and invest in your self.

By the way, if anyone still cares about the original topic of this thread, I have tried calling the # on the flyer 3 or 4 times now and all I get is an answering machine. I will keep trying though.

Thankyou for all of the advice. I agree with you. As I think I mentioned somewhere earlier is that I all of what you said are in my near future plans. Right now My wife and I are just struggling too hard to do anything extra. Evry penny I am making at this time is spen before I get it. For example, we just got a double electric bill yesterday and it was $787.00. Our average electric runs 340.00. My wife looked at the bill and said enjoy the airconditioner while you can because my car and house payment comes first. I have no idea how we are going to pay the electric, but I do always have faith that it will get paid some how or another. Looking on the brighter side of things, I picked up 2 new customers yesterday. One being my next door neighbor. Now my total client count is 5. A long way from my goal of 20 but it's getting there. 20 customers is my short term goal, but in the long run my goal is to turn this service into a lawn and landscape company and expand crews and offices all over the state of Florida and if possible all through Georgia as well. I am starting with nothing but knowledge and home equipment. But am very determined. Thanks again for your advice. Thats why I joined this forum.

tjgray
06-08-2005, 12:02 PM
Thankyou for all of the advice. I agree with you. As I think I mentioned somewhere earlier is that I all of what you said are in my near future plans. Right now My wife and I are just struggling too hard to do anything extra. Evry penny I am making at this time is spen before I get it. For example, we just got a double electric bill yesterday and it was $787.00. Our average electric runs 340.00. My wife looked at the bill and said enjoy the airconditioner while you can because my car and house payment comes first. I have no idea how we are going to pay the electric, but I do always have faith that it will get paid some how or another. Looking on the brighter side of things, I picked up 2 new customers yesterday. One being my next door neighbor. Now my total client count is 5. A long way from my goal of 20 but it's getting there. 20 customers is my short term goal, but in the long run my goal is to turn this service into a lawn and landscape company and expand crews and offices all over the state of Florida and if possible all through Georgia as well. I am starting with nothing but knowledge and home equipment. But am very determined. Thanks again for your advice. Thats why I joined this forum.

I hope your wife is working....if not you need to go and pick up a part time night job because unless they are just super prime accounts your not going to be able to make a living off of 20 accounts. Trust me I know :)

When I said I knew about hard times, I wasn't kidding. This is only our second year. Last year as the season ended *the time when a lot of green industry professionals were vacationing or enjoying time off with family*, my husband was working a night time cooking job. We know all about doing what you have to do.

This year we have doubled our last year sales and customer base already so perhaps we can actually take some time off in December if we plan it right, but if not there is always next year.

As tight as funds have been around here I have never considered doing a service we are not licensed for or not having insurance. We have been asked by our customers to do indoor pesticide treatments and we refer them to a guy we know who is licensed to do indoor stuff/he does the same for us....Striving towards making and maintaining good industry relationships and taking pride in your work will get you far *we get a bunch of work from industry contacts we have made* Like you Donald has worked for the boss man for 15 years. When we decided to take the leap we decided to do so as professionals and made sure *we did have a lot of help from my husbands ex-employer* we covered all of our bases.

If you still think you want to chance mowing a lawn without insurance I suggest you read the following thread Seven year old in coma after being hit with stone from mower. (http://lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=109514)

And do yourself a favor and refer those services you are not licensed to do to someone else....what comes around goes around. If you continue to provide them yourself you will eventually get caught and the fines are wayyyy more than any $787.00 electricity bill.

On a side note...Dave they can't be getting very many customers if they never answer their phone :dizzy:

Hope everyones day goes well :waving:

Watkinslawnservice
06-08-2005, 11:48 PM
Thankyou for all of the advice. I agree with you. As I think I mentioned somewhere earlier is that I all of what you said are in my near future plans. Right now My wife and I are just struggling too hard to do anything extra. Evry penny I am making at this time is spen before I get it. For example, we just got a double electric bill yesterday and it was $787.00. Our average electric runs 340.00. My wife looked at the bill and said enjoy the airconditioner while you can because my car and house payment comes first. I have no idea how we are going to pay the electric, but I do always have faith that it will get paid some how or another. Looking on the brighter side of things, I picked up 2 new customers yesterday. One being my next door neighbor. Now my total client count is 5. A long way from my goal of 20 but it's getting there. 20 customers is my short term goal, but in the long run my goal is to turn this service into a lawn and landscape company and expand crews and offices all over the state of Florida and if possible all through Georgia as well. I am starting with nothing but knowledge and home equipment. But am very determined. Thanks again for your advice. Thats why I joined this forum.
Allenh60, maybe you could try to network here on Lawnsite and either subcontract for someone(but most contractors require that you be insured) or work for someone part time for now until you get your customer base up. I know what it is like to need the money but you have options other than doing illegal work.

I am new to this biz also(1st year) and I only have 11 clients myself but I am fortunate to have a full time job that works 4- 10 hr days and I mow on friday. You could easily get a full or part time job and still have time for your 5 clients. It will come to you if you work hard, but no one says it will be easy. I am looking to quit my full time job by next spring hopefully, but if it doesn't happen then maybe it will the next year.

Good luck with all of your goals.

Watkinslawnservice
06-08-2005, 11:58 PM
I hope your wife is working....if not you need to go and pick up a part time night job because unless they are just super prime accounts your not going to be able to make a living off of 20 accounts. Trust me I know :)

When I said I knew about hard times, I wasn't kidding. This is only our second year. Last year as the season ended *the time when a lot of green industry professionals were vacationing or enjoying time off with family*, my husband was working a night time cooking job. We know all about doing what you have to do.

This year we have doubled our last year sales and customer base already so perhaps we can actually take some time off in December if we plan it right, but if not there is always next year.

As tight as funds have been around here I have never considered doing a service we are not licensed for or not having insurance. We have been asked by our customers to do indoor pesticide treatments and we refer them to a guy we know who is licensed to do indoor stuff/he does the same for us....Striving towards making and maintaining good industry relationships and taking pride in your work will get you far *we get a bunch of work from industry contacts we have made* Like you Donald has worked for the boss man for 15 years. When we decided to take the leap we decided to do so as professionals and made sure *we did have a lot of help from my husbands ex-employer* we covered all of our bases.

If you still think you want to chance mowing a lawn without insurance I suggest you read the following thread Seven year old in coma after being hit with stone from mower. (http://lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=109514)

And do yourself a favor and refer those services you are not licensed to do to someone else....what comes around goes around. If you continue to provide them yourself you will eventually get caught and the fines are wayyyy more than any $787.00 electricity bill.

On a side note...Dave they can't be getting very many customers if they never answer their phone :dizzy:

Hope everyones day goes well :waving:
Tara, I finally got through to someone today but it was one of thier kids. Sounded like a teenager. I said I had some questions about thier biz so I would call back later but he said he could answer them because he is one of the main mowers.

So I said ok, what kind of equip do you use, can you bag or mulch my lawn?

He said what do you mean bag it?

I said bag all of the clippings.

He said sure for an extra charge we will rake it.

So I said, what kind of weed killer do you use?

He said, I think it is called weed-b-gone.

I said, do you have a license to spray it?

He said, I don't know, you would have to ask my dad.

I guess I am not too worried about them. I got a new customer today so they couldn't have been too thorough with putting out those flyers. This guy wouldn't have hired me for $30 if he would have known he could have had it done for $10.

tjgray
06-09-2005, 11:53 AM
Tara, I finally got through to someone today but it was one of thier kids. Sounded like a teenager. I said I had some questions about thier biz so I would call back later but he said he could answer them because he is one of the main mowers.

So I said ok, what kind of equip do you use, can you bag or mulch my lawn?

He said what do you mean bag it?

I said bag all of the clippings.

He said sure for an extra charge we will rake it.

So I said, what kind of weed killer do you use?

He said, I think it is called weed-b-gone.

I said, do you have a license to spray it?

He said, I don't know, you would have to ask my dad.

I guess I am not too worried about them. I got a new customer today so they couldn't have been too thorough with putting out those flyers. This guy wouldn't have hired me for $30 if he would have known he could have had it done for $10.

I agree that the "fly by nights" are not our competition and they don't concern me financially but they do lower industry standards which should be a concern for all.

I just wished there was a tighter control on the industry.

Congrats on your new customer....we just got another one ourselves and landed a big bid consisting of 42 properties from the company we sub-contract from. This brings us to a total of 72 and fills up the schedule quite nicely. Looks like our second year is going to be a good one. We have tripled our customer base so far :waving:

Watkinslawnservice
06-09-2005, 11:01 PM
I agree that the "fly by nights" are not our competition and they don't concern me financially but they do lower industry standards which should be a concern for all.

I just wished there was a tighter control on the industry.

Congrats on your new customer....we just got another one ourselves and landed a big bid consisting of 42 properties from the company we sub-contract from. This brings us to a total of 72 and fills up the schedule quite nicely. Looks like our second year is going to be a good one. We have tripled our customer base so far :waving:
Congratulations, way to go.

How do you like subcontracting? How much of your work is subbing for others and how much is your own? Does it pay pretty well? I ask because I was offered the chance to strictly subcontract for another LCO but after thinking long and hard I decided that I wanted to build this business up on my own. This guy wanted me to abandon all of my customers and sub strictly for him. I have one account that I subbed from another LCO who got the job but is kind of out of the area.

tjgray
06-10-2005, 12:13 PM
Congratulations, way to go.

How do you like subcontracting? How much of your work is subbing for others and how much is your own? Does it pay pretty well? I ask because I was offered the chance to strictly subcontract for another LCO but after thinking long and hard I decided that I wanted to build this business up on my own. This guy wanted me to abandon all of my customers and sub strictly for him. I have one account that I subbed from another LCO who got the job but is kind of out of the area.

It doesn't pay as much as what we make on one of our properties and the ultimate goal is to get away from subbing, but while we grow our own customer base it is kind of the backbone of our company right now. We have no problems with unethical business practices such as propositioning our contractors customers and are happy to sign a no compete but we would never sub-contract from anyone who had a problem with us growing our own company....as that is the ultimate goal :waving:

Watkinslawnservice
06-10-2005, 11:26 PM
It doesn't pay as much as what we make on one of our properties and the ultimate goal is to get away from subbing, but while we grow our own customer base it is kind of the backbone of our company right now. We have no problems with unethical business practices such as propositioning our contractors customers and are happy to sign a no compete but we would never sub-contract from anyone who had a problem with us growing our own company....as that is the ultimate goal :waving:
yeah I hear ya. That is my goal as well and when this guy told me he wanted me to forget about my own customers and concentrate 100% on his I was turned off to the idea. He said he could have kept me and 1 employee as busy as we wanted to be but I want to ultimately be more than a lawn mower, I want to be a business manager. The one subbed account that I have is just a mutual agreement and I actually set my own price, he went to the customer and bid it plus a little for himself for administrative costs. I wouldn't mind getting a few more like that.

BTW, I got 2 more calls today and already signed one up and probably will sign the other by next week. The calls are coming in faster now than they did this spring. I wonder what thats all about?

budracin
06-11-2005, 12:37 AM
easy solution..... just sub contract them to mow your accounts, charge, collect, and sit at home and earn cash while they work for you at that price

northwest lawn
06-11-2005, 12:52 AM
i cant beleive ppl are still arguing over this post

tjgray
06-11-2005, 12:50 PM
i cant beleive ppl are still arguing over this post

Funny how peoples views and opinions can differ so broadly....I never thought we were arguing :waving:

Ric
06-11-2005, 01:35 PM
i cant beleive ppl are still arguing over this post

northwest

That is the goal of an Internet Troller. Throw a stick and watch the dogs chase it. :cool2: