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View Full Version : Brand new toro blows a clutch... or so I thought?


ALarsh
06-03-2005, 11:24 PM
So I am cutting my best (!) account today and I disengage the blades to drive around the house and start the striping. So I am ready to engage blades again and there is no response when I pull the button up. I pull it up and down multiple times and nothing happens. Now I'm pissed, this is a brand new Toro Z557 with 80 hours on it. This shouldn't be happening. I head back home and take it to the dealer. Dealer says the clutch is shot and I will not be able to cut more grass with it. He said that the "clutch was overheated by cutting tall grass too fast which ruined the clutch". He says the earliest he could get it fixed is Tuesday. I ask him for a demo and he says he doesn't have anything I could use for a day.

I called another dealer up (the dealer I bought it from) and he said that the guy at the first dealer was full of BS. He said the could have the parts in Tuesday and fix it on Tuesday in front of me. I said lets go ahead and do this.

So i'm still pissed off, I take the mower off the trailer. I try to engage the blades and they engaged like normal now. So I say screw it and take it back to my best account and the clutch is working like normal. So I cut 2 accounts (2 acres worth) and the blades are working fine now.

I will be using the mower all day tomorrow and I will see how the clutch holds up. I am thinking I should still have the clutch replaced by the dealer I bought it from but the only problem is if I take it there and it looks fine, are they going to think I am feeding them BS to get a new clutch?

Has anybody else had problems with a new toro electromagnetic clutch?

Gibs
06-03-2005, 11:44 PM
i just did.. i was mowing like a really wet lawn and my blades would not engage soo i took everything apart and worked on the cluth and it turned out i just blew a fuse.... soo simply..

South Florida Lawns
06-03-2005, 11:50 PM
buddy of mine with same unit 60hrs had to replace one of the spindle bearings twice. I have not had a problem with the clutch so far and I'm cutting thick st Augustine/top speed at times. Is that the mower that you just got and posted about how sweet the thing was? I think you mentioned that it was a 52 or 60 inch with the 19 hp kawi. Cannot remember if you are the same person. Defiantly have the dealer take a look at the clutch as something sounds up with it. Good luck hope it does not end up screwing you over.

ALarsh
06-03-2005, 11:52 PM
It has a 27 hp kohler with a 60 in deck.

I checked the fuses and they are fine.

Tonyr
06-03-2005, 11:54 PM
if your mower has an EFI, problems will be things like bad earth connection, fuse, or low battery ampage, toro builds a protection system into their efi's, 'limp mode' means it will ride and not cut until it's fixed.

IF no efi, it is either a crook wire, or the 'air space' in the clutch adjustment is out of adjustment....very easy to fix!

I seriously doubt the clutch is faulty, but of course it can be....either way I doubt the dealers decision, think it is a wire or adjustment issue.

These Warner clutches are good.

TLS
06-03-2005, 11:55 PM
I guess you checked the switch and clutch wire connections? My switch harness was 1/2 pulled out and covered in dust due to the dielectric grease. I cleaned it with compressed air, re-lubed, and bent some of the prongs to ensure a tight fit.

ALarsh
06-04-2005, 12:07 AM
IF no efi, it is either a crook wire, or the 'air space' in the clutch adjustment is out of adjustment....very easy to fix!

I seriously doubt the clutch is faulty, but of course it can be....either way I doubt the dealers decision, think it is a wire or adjustment issue.

These Warner clutches are good.

It is not EFI. Yes, the 'air space' was the problem. The 'air space' was 1/4 of an inch, when it was supposed to be much less. The dealer said that the electrode can not pull the disk (?) in and spin it. He said that you wont be able to engage the blades till it is fixed, but obviously he was wrong.

When I was able to get the blades running again the 'air space' was back to normal. Is there anything I can do to make sure the 'air space' does not get out of whack?

Sorry for the terms, I do not know the names of the clutch parts....

TLS
06-04-2005, 12:11 AM
These Warner Mag-Stop clutches do NOT have adjustable air gaps.

Only the Ogura's did. Not too many still use the Ogura's.

ALarsh
06-04-2005, 12:13 AM
Would you suggest I still get the clutch replaced? It is fine now, but it was completely out of whack a couple hours ago. There has to be a reason why it jumped out of place...

TLS
06-04-2005, 12:15 AM
It's under warranty....Get it replaced. But have them check wires to the switch and clutch itself.

They usually work or don't work.

ALarsh
06-04-2005, 12:28 AM
But do you think the dealer will think i'm feeding them BS when I go in there with a clutch that now works fine (keep in mind, the dealer that did not see the mower with the broken clutch will be fixing it)?

TLS
06-04-2005, 12:30 AM
That's going to be up to the dealer. If you called him indicating it was the clutch, and now it works.....If he checks the wiring and doesn't see a problem, he SHOULD replace the clutch.

Mowingman
06-04-2005, 09:01 AM
Do not overlook the possibility of a bad PTO switch. Most "clutch problems" that come to our shop, are simply a bad PTO switch. This is almost always what we find when the clutch only has an intermittant problem . We plug in a new switch, and the clutch almost always works fine.

MJB
06-04-2005, 09:53 AM
Shut the engine off and turn on the key, and engage and disengage the blades a few times. Watch it to see if it is working everytime. When it sticks on the job and you need to finish take a small hammer handle and tap on the clutch while trying to engage it. This usually works just be careful because the engine is running.

Pro-Scapes
06-04-2005, 09:57 AM
South florida.... I just got the new z master. Sounds like the clutch prob he is having is a lose connectionor a switch vs being a clutch. Could be an internal short in the magnetic coil but doubt it.
If its that new get the dealer to fix it. If my mower goes down my dealer lets me take his personal z for the day. He let me use it when my mower was a day late arriving. So far my only prob is not enough grass to cut! 6 hrs on it now and love it. 48 turbo force 19hp kawi

Tharrell
06-04-2005, 04:39 PM
I think it's the switch too.

ALarsh
06-04-2005, 07:11 PM
I played around with the switch and it is working fine. The problem lies in the clutch disk (arrow pointing to it). It worked ok today, but occasionally it will jump out of place (where the red vertical line is next to the arrow). I am going to try to have it in the incorrect position when I bring it to the dealer for repair.

Tider6972
06-04-2005, 07:23 PM
ALarsh do <i>yourself</i> a <b>huge</b> favor: take it to your (selling) dealer and describe the problem you had with your mower. He will diagnose and repair it.

You have a <i>NEW </i> mower, under warranty. Check normal maintenance things like blades, belts, fuses and change filters, but leave the rest to your dealer !

ALarsh
06-06-2005, 09:16 PM
Update: I cut with it today and I got the clutch in the "out of whack" position. Look at the pics.

The machine goes to the dealer tomorrow.

ALarsh
06-06-2005, 09:17 PM
#2... What do you guys think?

Tonyr
06-06-2005, 10:59 PM
I'm not mechanically minded by any means, only know from experience with my own toros, but I think ya need to get this looked at at dealer asap, if you keep using faulty, impropper working items many times this leads to other things, and dealers prefer to see failing parts early, rather than when it busts up in a big mess lol.

Least this way they can see it's faulty, if you keep messing with it, some dealers would say you done something, get it fixed now, it's a new machine, you pay big bucks for warrantee, use it! just my humble opinion of course lol.

ALarsh
06-07-2005, 06:19 PM
Update: I took it to the dealer today and he said toro doesn't have any in stock. He took a new clutch assembly off of one of his new machines to put on mine. He gave me a free oil change and he greased all the joints for free also. It pays to have a good dealer. :)

ed2hess
06-07-2005, 06:47 PM
So what was wrong with the clutch? I wouldn't want to leave until I understood if it is a bad disign or a quality problem. The Scag and Snapper clutches can be taken apart easily to see what is wrong.

Tonyr
06-07-2005, 06:49 PM
WOW! you're lucky, my dealer doesn't even carry stock, and refuses to pull parts off of floor stock, no loaners....nuthin free! Everything is ordered interstate....a simple thing can see me down 3 days easy.

charged me $25 just to 'level' my deck recently, had my mower for a week trying to find an electrical problem, yet no grease up, no check over, nothing.
Not even cleaned....

Yep, a good dealer makes a big difference alright, just wish mine was as client orientated and respected my business the way yours does yours.

ALarsh
06-07-2005, 07:00 PM
So what was wrong with the clutch? I wouldn't want to leave until I understood if it is a bad disign or a quality problem. The Scag and Snapper clutches can be taken apart easily to see what is wrong.

He didn't know what the problem was. He said I am one of the very few people that has had a problem with them...

Runner
06-07-2005, 10:42 PM
It looks like it was just a fluke, and the clutch was perhaps assembled wrong. Incidentally, I don't know about the Snappers, but Scag uses the same exact clutch. The Warner has basically become an industry standard.

ALarsh
06-07-2005, 11:45 PM
Wow, it seems like the story never ends. I had one of my city worker friends come over to mount up a hitch he made for the toro. We were looking at the new clutch and I noticed the pulley moves on the shaft (pulley directly next to clutch).

Back at the dealer, I noticed there was some chaffing on the shaft when we took the clutch off. I asked Jon (the service manager) if this is normal and he said, "I have seen it before on other machines, but for 80 hours it is accelerated". I said ok and he installed the clutch.

My city worker friend works on the cars, trucks, pretty much everything that has an engine for the city. He said he couldn't tell me if this pulley is supposed to have this play in it (a little wiggle back and forth, if you work it you can get it to go down the shaft). He said he would check their toro unit at the city to see if their pulley has a little play in it.

Now, I can wiggle the pulley down the shaft and get the clutch to the "out of whack" position (this is the new clutch setup) (picture post #19). So my question for you guys is, is it normal to have a little bit of play in the pulley near the clutch? I am thinking the old clutch might have been ok but there is something wrong in the shaft (chaffing)???

What do you guys think? Am I just anal?

GFX
06-08-2005, 12:45 AM
Who's your dealer? Just curious.

ALarsh
06-08-2005, 07:50 AM
Who's your dealer? Just curious.

It's a secret. It is one of those things where you have to know someone there to get service/sales.

ALarsh
06-08-2005, 05:11 PM
Anybody know about the pulley?

The mayor
06-08-2005, 05:22 PM
I was also curios about the dealer. I had good luck with Olsons in muskego

ALarsh
06-08-2005, 09:33 PM
Sorry I can't tell you who the dealer is... I would if I could...

All right.. ANYBODY with the pulley ordeal? Here is a picture of the brand new clutch on my toro unit (garage is dark now, sorry for quality but you get the picture)...

GFX
06-09-2005, 12:44 AM
It's a secret. It is one of those things where you have to know someone there to get service/sales.


Oh ok! Yeah it's one of those places. I'd really like to take my equipment there. :rolleyes: Sheesh..

GFX
06-09-2005, 12:47 AM
I was also curios about the dealer. I had good luck with Olsons in muskego

That's where I go too.

Not sure if I've seen you around town. What do you drive?

The mayor of big ol' East Troy eh'

cushman
06-09-2005, 06:14 AM
The clutch spacer is missing.

The spacer slides over the crankshaft before the clutch slides on and keeps the halves of the clutch oriented properly.

If you go to Toro's website and plug in your model and s/n you can get the part number. The one for my 580L is p/n 103-0114.

The mayor
06-09-2005, 07:50 AM
Black cloud I sent you a pm

ALarsh
06-10-2005, 05:21 PM
The clutch spacer is missing.

The spacer slides over the crankshaft before the clutch slides on and keeps the halves of the clutch oriented properly.

If you go to Toro's website and plug in your model and s/n you can get the part number. The one for my 580L is p/n 103-0114.

Wow. Thanks. I went to a toro dealer today to look at one of their machines' clutch. You are right, there is no spacer on my machine and there clearly is a spacer on the new machines at the toro dealer. I am going to bring it back to the dealer that put the brand new clutch on it to tell them about the spacer.

cushman
06-12-2005, 02:19 PM
The P/N for the missing spacer is 1-633179.

It seems kind of odd that it was missing, I wonder if the clutch was robbed from your machine before you bought it and the "mechanic" forgot the spacer when the clutch was put back on.

You may want to look around and see if there are any actual mechanics in your area, it seems there are only parts changers and storytellers.

Haphazardly replacing parts until a problem goes away can be an expensive and time consuming diagnostic methodology.

ALarsh
06-13-2005, 07:46 PM
I took it in today. He robbed the spacer off of another machine to put on mine. It is all ready to go for some major cutting. :)

TClawn
06-13-2005, 07:56 PM
there is supposed to be a spacer between the clutch.

whenever you feel a wiggle one an engine power take off, it's not good. there will be a washer, spacer, or piece of metal that should be on it. or your pulley is messed up.

my exmark has the spacer built in to the hydro belt, and heaven help you if you put the pulley on upside down lol.

I don't think the spacer is only common to toro, I think scag has 'em on their machines too, but not totally sure on that.

oopps. I saw the other replies. your question was already answered. :blush:

ALarsh
06-13-2005, 08:01 PM
there is supposed to be a spacer between the clutch.

whenever you feel a wiggle one an engine power take off, it's not good. there will be a washer, spacer, or piece of metal that should be on it. or your pulley is messed up.

my exmark has the spacer built in to the hydro belt, and heaven help you if you put the pulley on upside down lol.

I don't think the spacer is only common to toro, I think scag has 'em on their machines too, but not totally sure on that.

oopps. I saw the other replies. your question was already answered. :blush:

Thanks TC. :D

muddstopper
06-13-2005, 09:00 PM
Next time you have a clutch prolem you can call Warner directly. 815-389-3771

ALarsh
06-13-2005, 10:23 PM
Next time you have a clutch prolem you can call Warner directly. 815-389-3771

Thanks for the info.