How do you guys get

[sheshovel]

Hey,what methods do you all use to get under an existing cement walkway ,say 3' or 4' wide?
Do you use the dig and highpressure nozzle /w water method or what?Right now that's the only way I know .I rigged up a 3/4 pvc pipe w/ a f/m swivel hose coupling and shut off on one end and a brass high pressure nozzle on the other end and blast my way thru,
This method does not work well for me,alot of granite around here.
Also I don't like waisting all that water.
But in the Manufactured home park I'm doing alot of new landscapes in,I can't get the cement guys to remember to put a line under the walkways before they pour.
When my nephews were pouring there no problems
but this new crew just laugh at me.
Well not to my face they don't but they aren't doing it either.
I offered to provide the pipe ect and lay it in.But they just shine me on.
I could get them in trouble for that but don't want to be that way.
I'm no snitch but I can pull strings if I need to.
Anyway how do you guys do it??

[SprinklerGuy]

Tell their foreman....be a snitch, make your life easier.

[Leo's]

we just bore a hole and pull back the pipe takes about 2 minutes with a ditch witch 410sx

[kerdog]

Hey sheshovel----

You could look at these, just FYI. Do a search for Borit and another called Borzit. Don't think they will help for getting thru something that's big and solid. But they claim that for smaller rock, it can vibrate or move it out of the way. I'm with SprinklerGuy, you and the concrete guys gotta get on the same page!

Good luck---kerdog

[sheshovel]

Will do.... thanks for all advice!

[Dirty Water]

Borzit intrigues me, but you have to have a heavy duty drill as well.

I haven't had much trouble digging by hand/water jetting under 3-5 foot sidewalks. Up here we have either solid clay, or rich farm land soil with tons of rocks.

Of course, subbing out a directional bore from the local utility company is the easiest way to do it, and we do if we absolulely have to go under a driveway (last resort).

EDIT: Do what I do about getting sleeves put in.

Find out where the next pour is going to be, have one of your crew show up and dig down about a foot below their pour grade, drop in a 2" sleeve (sch 40 if they are going to compact it) and backfill.

The concrete guys wont even know, and you'll be set.

[danboone]

Show up when the concrete guys are pouring one day toward quitting time with some cold drinks. Shoot the breeze a little and then bring up the subject of putting sleeves in. If they laugh at you after that, tell the guy who is hiring them that you've bent over backwards to be a decent Joe and that you also can't afford to just do the boring yourself. You've tried to save him some $$$ by going the extra mile and having the concrete guys put the sleeves in (even provided the sleeves yourself and offered to install) but they are being un-cooperative and so you have no choice but to pass on the cost of the boring to him if he can't make them co-operate. Minimum charges if $12.50 per foot on boring or some other number (don't throw a round number, always add cents on the end so they know you aren't making it up).

You should get your sleeves in after that. I've played general contractor on jobs before and this approach works very well with me, I would see you as a hard worker trying to save me money and them as being obstinate and lazy and costing me money. They wouldn't work for me on a second job.

[gusbuster]

I could get them in trouble for that but don't want to be that way.
I'm no snitch but I can pull strings if I need to.
Anyway how do you guys do it??


I'm with Tony on this one provided you personally talked to the cement crew.

If the job was specked this way, then I sure as heck would be a snitch.

I use the Borit on shots longer than 5', but watch out if you catch a good size pebble. It will smash your knuckles raw.

If you priced your job on the fact that the sleeve was supposed to be in place, then you're losing the time and money.

[LemkeLawns]

check out sidewalksleever.com
I agree with everyone else that the sleeves should be installed before the concrete is poured, but this may be useful in the future when a pre sleeve is not an option.

[Duekster]

Dynamite, works every time. :-)

[irritation]

we just bore a hole and pull back the pipe takes about 2 minutes with a ditch witch 410sx
I agree, but 2 minutes is pushing it.

[jeffinsgf]

I used a rather low tech approach to this problem when I ran drain pipe under my sidewalks for my gutters. I rented a one man post hole digger, dug access holes on both sides of the walk and jumped down in and pushed the post hole digger in sideways. Rocks were an adventure. Luckily, the little digger would stall before it would snap my wrist. Loose gravel was worse than tight packed dirt with rocks in it. The gravel just let the digger walk sideways. Glad I only had one cut with much gravel fill. The appropriateness of this approach for a long term solution would depend on soil composition you deal with most. In nice loamy, rock free soil, I think it would be an easy solution that would be a lot less muddy than a water jet.

[bicmudpuppy]

this is an old thread, and I sort of ignored it even when it was new. Answer seemed straightforward to me. We are talking sidewalk here. So, less than 5' wide and 4-6" thick. Pilot trench no matter your method, aprox 2' long and at depth for sleeve or pipe. solid bar and sledge? Ok, but too much work for the lazy boy. If your seeing a LOT of rock, I might use a 1" black pipe threaded on one end with a tee extra nipple and cap. Otherwise, sch40, snap saddle, FA, threaded plug. LOTS of tape on the cap or plug. drill out the saddle and install a x hose fitting and attach garden hose, or install x hose to black tee outlet. Then use hand force with a light hammer as needed to water jet across. Beating on a threaded fitting that is over taped gives you some "give". 2 minutes or less for the average push isn't a bad estimate. I would call it 5 minutes start to finish, incl hose connection and hand trench in many cases. If you've got enough rock to need black pipe, you may be beating for a while, but even a boring rig might have problems if the rock is that much fun.

[sigmapibama]

We use boring tools for Toro Dingo whenever necessary, however most of the time it is not necessary because we actually install the sleeve before the concrete is poured because you can't trust the concrete guys to do it right or at all. On short distances, we generally attach a garden hose to the size pipe we are using and force it through, then leave it there, and use it. If we need a large hole, like for drain pipe, we use a pressure washer. I hope this helps.
Chris Francis
Chris Francis Landscapes
www.chrisfrancislandscapes.com
Daphne, AL 36526