Would you like to see tougher or looser regulations for licensing?

[GreenUtah]

I would like to get some feedback from those who are already licensed and experienced here. Do you favor an easier time getting relicensed or licensing employees to apply, or would you like to see very tough rules and regs with big enforcement and stiff penalties for the unlicensed and why.

How tough? For example, a state may require a "master license holder" that holds a degree in hort, botany or agronomy or 5 years of experience under a master and a 1000 question exam and continuing credits each year. Applicators could practice beneath this master license, under their supervision, with a multi part 250-300 question exam. Master license numbers must be posted on the truck in 4 inch high letters anywhere pesticides are being applied for hire. Fines for applying without proper licensing are $500 per occurance for first time offenders, partially paying for inspectors and community awareness campaigns. There would be room for license holders from other states with a sufficient, consecutively licensed work history with pesticides to be eligible to take the master test.

Think that's made up pie in the sky? It's the results of good intentions being blown way out of proportion. It also resulted in a million person population market being served by three companies in the early 90s. Average app price? $39.00 for an avg 2500 sq. foot lawn.

Your thoughts?

[nocutting]

Howdy, I'd like to see tougher requirements. In NY, any idiot can get a lic.When I 1st started out, I had 3 by the time I was 21........I still take refresher courses every so often just to keep currant, though I gave up my Lic. about 15yrs ago............ :)

[siclmn]

In Washington state you don't need a license. I can go in and get a quart of Snapshot and put it in my sprayer and go at it. The only thing that I spray for is weeds. It's not rocket science so what's the big deal about licensing?

[GreenUtah]

As someone who has sprayed in Washington state on governmental contracts, I have to tell you that you could not be more wrong about not needing a license in WA. Just because you were able to buy a product, has nothing to do with protecting yourself and your company. Here are the facts for your state, http://agr.wa.gov/PestFert/LicensingEd/CaSpiInfo.htm#ca

[Runner]

It's not rocket science so what's the big deal about licensing?

you that you could not be more wrong about not needing a license

Ironic, isn't it? :rolleyes:

[siclmn]

As someone who has sprayed in Washington state on governmental contracts, I have to tell you that you could not be more wrong about not needing a license in WA. Just because you were able to buy a product, has nothing to do with protecting yourself and your company. Here are the facts for your state, http://agr.wa.gov/PestFert/LicensingEd/CaSpiInfo.htm#ca
It stresses that you need a license for pesticides and that you may need one for herbicides. I am just a small one man business that sprays some of my lawns. I don't think that I need a license for that.

[ArizPestWeed]

You did not need one last in AZ until 2 years ago.

[tjgray]

I am just a small one man business that sprays some of my lawns. I don't think that I need a license for that.

What in the heck does size have to do with anything???

Tougher regulations??? The problem with that is it only makes it harder for the professionals who already follow the laws and regulations. The darn clueless out there who are applying chemicals without the proper knowledge, licensing, or insurance will not be affected one darn bit by tougher regulations. They are not following the ones that are out there already.

What is really needed in my opinion is more employees at our States Dep. of Agriculture to keep track of records and patrol our areas making sure that everyone who applies chemicals is following IPM, has a license, is insured...etc. but *sighs :(* we all know that ain't happening.

No it isn't rocket science but there IS a level of skill and knowledge that separates the pros from the wanna bees.

[GreenUtah]

for the record, herbicides ARE pesticides as are insecticides, fungicides, rodenticides, piscecides, etc. TJ, agreed, laws without enforcement mean not one thing. Can you change a specialty law like this? That all depends on how willing you are to spend countless hours on it, but all laws can be changed.

[Grassmechanic]

I agree with tjgray. The govt' has their nose in our business enough as it is. Enforce what is on the books now. Then go after the homeowners.

[olderthandirt]

Simple solution would be to eliminate the sales of chemicals to NON licensed individuals or companys. Home owners would only be allowed to purchase a small amount of product each yr. I'm all for the toughest legistration that targets the Illegal applicator with the biggest fine and/or jail time possable

[marko]

Ironic, isn't it? :rolleyes:


My sentiments exactly!!!

[marko]

It stresses that you need a license for pesticides and that you may need one for herbicides. I am just a small one man business that sprays some of my lawns. I don't think that I need a license for that.


You just disproved your point! A herbicide is a pesticide. Thats why you need education and experience. There is more to it that attaching your scotts spray bottle to your customers garden hose and spraying weeds.

[jwamps]

How tough? For example, a state may require a "master license holder" that holds a degree in hort, botany or agronomy or 5 years of experience under a master and a 1000 question exam and continuing credits each year. Applicators could practice beneath this master license, under their supervision, with a multi part 250-300 question exam.

Your thoughts?

GreenUtah, I understand you point, but 5 year degree and all the bells and wisles added on to it, do you have all that, if so congratilations but if not at 37 would you want to go for all that, its is kinda stretching it. I am a small 1 man opp with 10 lawns, I am not licened, but would like to become licened but at 28 I don't want to have go to 5 years of school so I can work on my own. I think I have a good chance of getting licened, plus I want to so I can learn a little more about it. I think I have a good shot I atleat know the law and follow it, plus I know what pesticides are...lol

[GreenUtah]

jwamps, I do qualify under those conditions and one of the three in that scenario was my company. It was certainly no easy task to get there, make no mistake about that, in fact, we had to work under another "master license" for awhile, paying off a percentage to that company of everything we did, to be able to reap the rewards in that market. Applicators actually benefitted under this system with larger margins afforded by less competition, allowing them to spend more time on diagnosis and not the usual splash and dash that has become the norm in large scale operations. Before we sold the branch off in that market, we had 4 other companies working under our master, with their bare minimum begin techs that were properly trained enough to pass the applicator license exam. It did not take 5 years for them to be able to spray on their own, it just took making an agreement that included follow ups with someone responsible for true compliance.

[jwamps]

Wow greenutah and for that I admire you, I hope I didn't offend you with what I said, I just have this bitterness against schooling b/c school teaches you some if you r willing to learn, but real world experience is a total different story. It just amazes me "for the record, herbicides ARE pesticides" that ppl that think and make comments like this, there is a reason for laws b/c I would think this is common sense at least to me.. At first when I found out that fertilizing requires licensing I thought it was a way 4 the state to make money, realizing now that there is more to fertilizing the just putting chemicals down.

[Ric]

Simple solution would be to eliminate the sales of chemicals to NON licensed individuals or companys. Home owners would only be allowed to purchase a small amount of product each yr. I'm all for the toughest legistration that targets the Illegal applicator with the biggest fine and/or jail time possable


Mac

As much as I agree with you, It is not going to happen. I am not going into all the reason why the Chemical Manufactures lobby would be against it but I think it is obvious.

Thank God, Florida is the State with the Toughest regulation for a Pesticide Lic. We are also the Bug Capital of America. But still some Idiots slip through the testing and Give the industry a bad name. Other are so money motivated that they Prostitute themselves.

The Idiots who Claim it is Not Rocket Science are the worst offenders of Bad practices. They go to there local Supply Store(in some case WalMart or Home Depot) and ask the clerk what to use. No it is not Rocket science to put down Granules or Spray. But Knowing What to put Down and When is a real Science. In fact not only is it a real science, But the oldest Science Known to man and the Most COMPLEX science known to man. There are so many Variables that effect the out come of any application. Those who think it is a simple think to do are in fact simple people.

[GreenUtah]

jwamps, don't worry about it...my point to this whole thread actually revolved more around protecting the businesses and individuals who actually do make an effort to provide proper services through education of their staff and themselves in what Ric termed as a very complex and real science that in my opinion, you can never stop learning in. The true problem does not have answers with governmental regualtions but more with customer demands for walmart cheap service and the inability to distinguish that it actually IS a science when they think they can get good advice from a 7 dollar an hour retail clerk. "Didn't get results? Oh, you must have another problem, maybe your soil is bad. Try some of this instead or you can get some more plants over in our nursery dept." Ric, agreed that chem companies and the big box stores would instinctively fight if they were paying attention at all. The chem companies would probalby want to think long and hard about their position though. Less liability, for licensed applicators take a good amount of that burden, the amount of plant material would not go away, so it would likely be fewer customers doing larger amounts, meaning less marketing and customer service costs. The downside? Sham products could not survive under the watch of experienced, educated applicators. Bulk purchasing demands lower cost, eliminating obscene markups from the retail sector. Probably a hundred other scenarios that I'm not considering as I'm working on my morning caffeine here..lol...but you get the idea