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View Full Version : Started a lawn from scratch... little help


Holistic Landscapes
06-19-2005, 11:46 PM
I tilled... enriched... added sustane.... farfard topsoil..... ya know the whole nine... gypsum..... basically everything that the typical landscapers don't do..... most use peat moss and just throw down seed... from what I've seen.... anyway... I'm getting a lot of crab grass.. weeds... with constant watering.... I know I should have let the weeds pop up first after tilling then remove the weeds and then seed... but I didn't... I scuffle hoe'd the area and ripped out 95 percent of the crab grass and weeds... but the freak'n crab grass won't stop germinating... should I just round up the area... even though I do have a decent lawn coming in? and do it right? or just grow out a weedy lawn? I can't stand the look of the crab grass.. I honestly hate it... and always think about it... I know using round up kills everything systemically... so do you think I should? I HATE CRAB GRASS!!!! Its a small lawn probably like 3-400 square feet... partly sunny.. ya know.... defenatly enough sun for a beautiful lawn... just curious... I"m at the point were I think I"m just gona wipe it out and start over... what do you think?

DizneyWorld
06-20-2005, 04:58 PM
Use sod. If it is that small it will only be about $100 in material. Its hard growing a lawn in the summer heat.

Tvov
06-20-2005, 05:43 PM
basically everything that the typical landscapers don't do..... ... I'm getting a lot of crab grass.. weeds...


That is an interesting comment. You're doing everything the "typical" landscaper doesn't do, and your yard is coming in terrible. Hmmm....

muddstopper
06-20-2005, 07:33 PM
enriched... added sustane.... farfard topsoil..... ya know the whole nine... gypsum.....
??????

Did you do a soil test first or just guess that your lawn would do great with all these additives? Your right, all the things a typical landscaper wouldnt do, wonder why??

Holistic Landscapes
06-21-2005, 05:05 PM
I've learned in everybook... and all the people I"ve worked for that this is the correct way... I ment that most landscapers don't do the whole nine.. in my area from what I"ve seen anyway... I"ve seen renovations and it just looks like they just rip the grass up throw a whole lot of peat moss, grade then sod or seed... I feel that I've gotten much better results with adding organics to the soil and till it in... I"m just going by other professionals advice... Guess you guy's didn't like that comment... my bad... I'll figure it out....

Tvov
06-21-2005, 06:26 PM
Guess you guy's didn't like that comment... my bad... ...

You're right. That comment came across, well, not good.

Anyway, from the sound of it you should probably just Roundup the area and start over. You are almost always going to have some weeds until you can start a regular application program to control them. It sounds like you have a lot of weeds. After Roundup (usually as soon as a week later), you could probably just use a power seeder (overseeder, slit seeder, etc) for that area. I wouldn't think you have to re-till the area.

Holistic Landscapes
06-21-2005, 11:25 PM
I honestly only made that comment because of what I"ve seen... I just havn't found a landscaping service that actually takes there time does the job when it comes to lawn renovations... but whatever... hopefully it will set me apart from those people.... I really don't wana sod... sod is like boring kinda.. plus he said that he wants a seeded lawn... and I like the challenge... Plus seeded lawns look so spectacular in the early spring... sod looks all matty... but those seeded lawns look so fresh... i"M going by the area tommorrow to cut... so I"m gona take a look.. I"m probably gona round it up tomorrow.. and explain to the customer.. that with the proper watering we can still grow a beautiful lawn..... its not totally all in the sun... its like a partly sunny lawn so I think we'll be ok... Thanks Tvov... night all! :sleeping:

muddstopper
06-23-2005, 02:18 AM
You have 400 sqft of lawn. Roundup it and start over. Do a soil test and adjust the recommended rate of materials for depth of incorporation. Think about watering the soil without using any seed. This will germinate the crabgrass and other weeds so you can give another round of roundup. Then slitseed, broadcast or hydroseed the area. Apply Peat or straw to the top of the newly seeded lawn like a professional landscaper would.

Other options, Have a licensed herbicide applicator apply a product called drive 75. It is a pre and post emergent and works pretty good on crabgrass without killing off the wanted grasses.

Take a small brush and just paint the crabgrass with roundup being careful not to drip the chemical on the grass you want to keep.

sheshovel
06-23-2005, 02:22 AM
Well if there was crabgrass there in the first place(and I'm sure you saw some)you should have never tilled it under,in doing so you created a bazzillion little crabgrass babies that will now take over the yard.In shuffel hoeing the crabgrass that was there you also made your crabgrass problem 100 times worse than it would have been had you taken your time and did it right by spraying first killing,waiting,digging out and removing,then waiting,spraying and digging out and removing .then adding your amendments after a soil test,tilling and removing as many roots as possible then seeding really thick,waiting a week and reseeding again.

Holistic Landscapes
06-23-2005, 02:49 PM
ok... I"m gona explain to the customer the situation... Thanks all for the advice... I really appreciate it... so I guess using peat moss is good then? I was told by lesco never to use the stuff... to acidic... I dunno... I guess we all have to find out what works for us... I'll ttyl

muddstopper
06-26-2005, 03:02 PM
Well if there was crabgrass there in the first place(and I'm sure you saw some)you should have never tilled it under,in doing so you created a bazzillion little crabgrass babies that will now take over the yard.
Bazzillion?? How many is that. LOL
To put the seed count into a reasonable perspective, Crabgrass seeds are pretty small and sort of similar in size to Thimothy grass seeds, give or take a little. Thimothy seeds adverage around 1.2 million seeds per lb. Now I aint going to do the exact math but that would be somewhere between 30 and 40 seeds per sqft. per acre. 30 or 40 crabgrass seeds per sqft dont sound like much until you think of it as 30 or 40 potential crabgrass plants per sqft or basicly a full lawn of nothing but crabgrass out of just one lb of seed. In another perspective, fescues, ryes, etc, seeds are considerably larger than crabgrass seeds and adverage around 200,000 seeds per lb or about 4 seeds per sqft per acre.

Roundup will only kill the crabgrass seeds that have already germinated. Tilling the soil and watering the ground after using roundup will bring the bazallion crabgrass seeds back to the soil surface. After these seeds have germinated another application of roundup will greatly reduce the amount of available crabgrass seeds to populate the new lawn. Any further disturbance of the soil, ( areation, slit seeding, rakeing etc.) after the roundup treatments will only bring more crabgrass seeds to the surface resulting in a larger crabgrass infestation and result in the need for even more chemical applications to control the weed. Waiting untill fall and the crabgrass is dieing off before planting the new lawn is the best course of action. This will give the new grass time to establish and preemergent herbicides can be used in the spring to keep the crabgrass and other weeds in check.