View Full Version : UPDATE TO CRANKCASE PROBLEM-TERRIBLE DEALER SERVICE-TERRIBLE KAWI SERVICE
03-02-2001, 01:23 AM
Here is the update on my 12.5 kawi and the dealership. Basically I got reamed. I was standing right there when the service guy took my carb apart. He said he did not see anything. The owner walked up and asked if he found anything and he said "no, not yet." My dad had rode out there with me and he was standing there and heard everything also.
When they called me I tell them they need to contact kawi and get this warranted because there is no reason that over 1 gallon of gas should have run into the crankcase. The guy agreed that there must be a carb problem. I never hear back from them. I called eXmark and talked with a factory guy and he said he would call one of the main guys at kawi. Which he did. (Exmark is the only people involved that have been worth anything!) This guy from kawi calls the dealer. Talks to them. Talks to the very same guy I did, but he says there is trash in the carb. Well, to the kawi guy that means its not their problem. He tells the dealer not to warranty. Another day goes by and I hear nothing. So I call the dealership and they said a kawi rep called and asked some questions and that was it. He told me that he never heard back from the guy. He also tells me that he told him there was a carb problem and should have been no reason for the fuel in the crankcase. Lie #1.
I happened to have the phone # to the kawi guy and I called him this morning. No return call. I call back after lunch. He answers. He tells me that the dealer told him there was trash in the carb and that he also told them not to warranty it. I explain to him that I was there when the carb was taken apart and there wasn’t a problem. So he calls the dealer and leaves me on hold. After a few minutes he comes back and says that they still say there was trash in it. He then proceeds to tell me that since a registered dealer for them says this is the case then he WILL NOT do anything about it.
Now lets look at the facts:
1. If you are going to service a problem like this and you find trash in the carb and insist that is the reason for it, would you change the fuel filter? Seems like common sense. But, they did not! It had the original fuel filter on it. It was also a see through filter. The thing was absolutely clean. Humm…
2. Would you want to drain the tank and get the trash out? This did not happen either.
3. The service guy is trying to explain that if they do warranty work, kawi will only pay a small amount. He said "We worked on it for 1.5 hours, if kawi was to pay this they would only pay for about half hour. Humm… Is that interesting? If you let it get warranted you will get less money.
4. I told them up front that the crankcase overflow spilled into the carb when I cranked it. If by chance anything was in there, maybe it came after it was filled with gas. Duh.
The owner of the small engine shop was not there when I showed up, so I decided to wait to tear into him until later. The punk guy at the dealership tells me "I hope this does not hurt our business relationship". He also states that he does not understand kawi having an upset client over this small amount. I guess it does not ring a bell that he was the doing the same thing. I told him I am ticked off. He then proceeds to say he just does not understand why kawi will not handle it. 3 times I told him its because of the trash statement. I also said "you were standing right beside me when the service guy said nothing was wrong with the carb. He really did not have anything to say after that.
I have sold 3 eXmark mowers for these guys in the last 2 months. I also have at least $500 of stuff on order. Guess who will not be buying it. What about the lazer hp with ultra vac. Pretty stupid to screw someone that has been spending money. I guess when you deal with rednecks in the middle of nowhere this is what you get. Thankfully there is another exmark dealer here. I will never be back to this place. It ticks me off that they will do this with other people too. You would need to see these people. Family redneck place that really some of the people do not have there teeth. Truthfully! I plan to let as many people as I can know about their service, or lack thereof.
03-02-2001, 01:31 AM
that blows,usualy you get the best service from a " mom & pops" dealership, did you have to pay for it?
Sometimes I wonder if Im right but when a dealer
------- you over thats what he gets from me.
Ill work it in to the conversation with everybody I talk with.He probably wont last long once hestarts doing this
stuff.Ive seenum go go under plenty By the way I even
mentioned it when I was speaking in church once.Thats probably carrying it to far. huh
sorry you had a bad one
03-02-2001, 01:38 AM
$92.99 for oil change, oil filter and carb clean.
What a joke.
03-02-2001, 02:15 AM
Whoa! Hold on there! If the oil change was done because of a problem that occured in the engine, then that should be covered under warranty! DO NOT back down from these people!!! Your best bet is to stay with Exmark for results with this! Afterall, it is an Exmark mower, Exmark WARRANTY. Just because they use a Kawi motor, it is STILL Exmark warranty. Exmark is your best bet by far to pursue this thing. You tell them you paid the charge to get your mower back, but you are NOT satisfied! They stand behind their product 100% and make sure you tell the rep about the other 3 mowers you sold. Also make sure you tell him you still intend on buying the HP with the UltraVac-Perhaps! He will get you the results you need and DESERVE. I think this dealership may need a second look at by Exmark for quality qualification. I have NEVER heard of any Exmark customer being treated like that. Nor, has anyone else of us THOUSANDS of LS members. If I, or we DO hear of Exmark not fully backing their product as in this case, then myself and many, many, many others will be looking at Exmark in a whole different way from now on. THIS is the mower that I recommEND to people. You make that very clear to that rep when you speak to him! And keep - us - posted!
03-02-2001, 02:32 AM
I already bought the HP. Kawi is the warranty on the motor. Exmark did call kawi, but I don't know if they can do anything else. The factory rep called a decision maker at kawi and he is the one that made this decision. I plan on having a talk with exmark still. I also haven't finished with kawi yet either. I guess what we've all heard before about kawi being bad about not honoring their warranty is true. I may use kohlers next time. I have a very bad taste for kawis right now. Muffler fell of my hp with 30 hours on it, and kawi took 3 weeks to get the new one in. Then it wouldn't fit.
Below is the path to a post that Scott Campbell and I had with exmark.
[Edited by 65hoss on 03-02-2001 at 06:36 AM]
03-02-2001, 10:25 AM
Being a service manager myself I would have to agree that this situation was handled very poorly. I myself would never do this and am apalled that people's opinion of dealers is diluted because of one bad incident. Our dealership would have charged to fix it the first time and after that it becomes our problem!! Not the customers, unless we can tell he/she is using really dirty gas or something. If he/she was a excellent customer such as yourself then we would have gave up a carburetor to keep your business and sell you new machinery. We would have fought with Kawasaki later ourselves. That's our business philosophy anyway.
03-02-2001, 12:14 PM
This is a first & only for me, so this will not happen again, LOL I promise. I always stick up for the Dealers. I feel I can Because I have been on both sides of the Fence & be fair & unpartial about it?
Before we get started
If the Dealer can't find a defective part, there is no way he can Warranty it. He can't just say well the float was hung & it let fuel in the Crankcase? No Way, if that was so about 75% of all dealers would be turning warranties like that all the time? You must have defective parts about 99% of the time.
We have to be very careful about warranties, if we lie & falsify information, well you can loose the right to sell that product, if caught & it happens every day. :-) I will not do dishonest warranty work at all. If you ever lie once you have to do it over & over. 1 lie can destroy a 1,000 truths, I live by that! I have no problem getting or doing anything because I'm known as a honest individual & I have Pride! Pride worth lot more than MONEY?
It is also hard to understand but Kawa has nothing to do with eXmark. eXmark builds mowers & Kawa builds engines. These are 2 seperate issues? eXmark can't warranty Kawa Engines & Kawa can't warranty eXmark mowers. That is a Fact Jack! Butt
eXmark is very well known for being Great People & standing behind their work!
OK now this is what I would have done.
Since you were a Good Customer & no trash was found in the carb (butt believe me something kept the float from closing, they just didn't see it.)
I only one time would have cleaned out the Bowl, Fuel tank, fuel lines, replaced oil & I would have looked at fuel filter, if I had any doubts I would have replaced it. I would have explained the situation to you, until you understood. I would have not charged you for it at all.
Yes, I would have been unhappy about it, why because such a problem when I was in the Lawn Service Business, I would have done that my self, don't have time to waste like that.
Very simple repair. Yes even if I bought it that day, unless I didn't have anything else to do. I'm just as good & sometimes better than the above average mechanic. If man built it, I'm a man & I can fix it. Probably doing a better job & not going through all that crap either? Think about it, was it worth it? I know it was a bad situation, But I have learned over time, that I have the power to prevent most all problems. Because hassels are just not worth it?
LOL, believe me when I was in the business, I had similar problems quite a few times. OK, if you done it your self, it would have took you less than a hour & the cost of the oil. Now getting upset over stuff as minor as this is just not worth it? What if you had a heart attach over it? What would they put on your head stone? Died because fuel leaked into crankcase? I'm not trying to be a smart arse, I'm just trying to help!
But getting back to this, again I would have done the repair & not charged you for it. The fee for the repair was way to much, here where I'm at we would have done it on the spot, since you were a Commercial customer. If we did charge you it would have been about $40 max. But remember we are still called liars, theives & ripoffs. Why because we are percieved as Rich people & everybody thinks we make a fortune. That's not true. How many jobs do you have to do for free? Probably over half of warranty work could have been prevented by the customers.
Find another dealer, the problem is, this could have been prevented. The average customer thinks the Dealer or Retailer owes them. This is a true statement. Say for instance you have 150 Clients, look at the problems you have, now how many customers does a dealer have, well it is in the 1,000's. That is why I only work a few hours a day, no matter how hard I try I still get treated like a DOG!
People like me that decide to get into Dealerships or Retail as far as I'm concerned are the most stupid & ignorant people on earth. Exspecially after being in the Lawn Service Business. Yes I'm unhappy because of stuff just like this, but I can't find anyone to buy my business, I still owe on it, if it was paid for, lol I would close the doors about a day afterwards payoff. I can not walk off from it, I lowered my price on my business over $50,000 & signed contaract to pay Business Broker over $40,000 over 4 years ago to sell it, I'm willing to loose almost $100K just to get away from it. I only got 5 1/2 years to go & I'm counting the days. :-)
Sorry you had the bad experience, the dealer could have done a lot better. Wish I lived there & could get almost $100 for repair like that. But I have to sleep at night & I know what you guys go through. I always go above & beyond to help the customer & they still unhappy? Dealerships & Retail are for a different kind of folks than I am.
03-02-2001, 01:06 PM
Hoss.....I have discussed warranty work with my dealer when it comes to Kaw. He said that Kaw is never wrong and nothing ever goes wrong with their equipment in their opinion. If something has happend, its your fault they say!!! To get warranty work through Kaw is a pain in the you know what. In your case though, you got screwed!! I would stick that $90 bill where the sun don't shine.
03-02-2001, 02:03 PM
Grassmaster I agree with you somewhat. The money isn't really what my problem is. Its being lied to that gets me. Why tell me one thing to my face and then another to kawi. They wanted to act like my best friend and then stab me in the back when I wasn't there. This is the problem. I do think the money was to high. They didn't even change the fuel filter. After I asked about it he handed me one and the pliers to do it myself. They have lied to me before and they never try very hard to fix anything. Even though I'm a comm'l cutter and rely on them. Even after everything yesterday, when I'm standing there in front of him he still told me different than what he said to the kawi rep. I was on the phone and heard it.
03-02-2001, 03:57 PM
Yes they should not have lied to you & everybody else. They did over charge you. Like I said earlier, You being a good Customer I would have done it at no charge, 1 time. It's a simple 30 to 45 minute job.
The fuel filter that you can see through, if they didn't see anything, it did not need replacing. That would have made your repair bill higher. :-)
Plenty of Trash & debris goes in through the opening of the gas tank on engine & most crap that goes into small engines comes from gas cans, they are the major source of carb failures. You can even get debris in there through a air filter not fitting properly. There is lotsa varibles here on how the debris got in there.
But the Mechanic should not have said what he did. That's why I have a sign at my shop that Mechanical Voyuers get charged $1.00 a minute to watch! :-) That's sort of a Joke & but some will pay that TOO!
If the float hung, which it did to run the gas in the Crankcase & they did not find a Problem or damage with the Needle or Seat & or the Float might have had a tiny hole in it or bent or Float tab bent wrong.
Then all they did was maybe blow it out & put back together & you have ran it a while with no problems. That tells you only one thing something was in there & kept the Float needle from seating. You can not warranty nothing or trash-debris in carb.
There is no other way to explain it & I have this problem with my mechanics. They say stuff & I know what they mean But its hard to explain to customers, after hearing what the mechanic says.
If it was hung & flooded with gas, no parts were defective, there was debris in there & he did not see it. All it takes is something as small & smaller than 1/32 of an inch in diameter. Sometimes they miss it, if they were real good believe me they would have a decent job instead of being a Small Engine Mechanic.
Hoss you were done wrong, no doubt. Sorry you had a bad experience with it. Maybe next Dealer will do a better job! I wish I had you as a Customer! :-)
03-05-2001, 02:43 AM
I talked with the eXmark factory rep. He agrees that probably something stuck the float. I will accept that, its the dealer handling that ticks me off. But, he also understands my problem with the dealer and kawi. We talked for probably 30 minutes and he plans to deal with it. He does not like the way the dealer dealt with the problem. He plans to call the distributor and the dealer and let them know they lost a customer because of the situation. He also plans to put in writing on file with eXmark the situation, because they need to be aware of a dealer that has this problem. If they will screw me after everything they will cause other potential exmark users problems also. I can handle a lot of things, but lying to me and charging me outragous prices is crazy for business.
The rep gave me some pointers on things to do that should save me in the long run trips to any dealer. I agree that a lot of down time can be avoided with some extra attention. He was very helpful and told me if I ever have any problems getting parts or anything call him and he will always take care of it.
I give the exmark guys an A+. I called the factory and the guy was great. He was the person that got the ball rolling with kawi. When the dealer was brushing me off, he made the call the dealer would not. So Tim, I appreciate it. Because of Tim and Anthony at eXmark, my loyality to exmark has not changed one bit.
03-05-2001, 02:11 PM
I had the same problem with 1.5 gallons of gas in crankcase
my dealer told me it probably was bad gas with too much
ethanol in it. I just drained the gas and put oil in it
and havent had a problem since and it runs great. That is some crappy service I might leave that dealer.
You may have a lot of internal damage in your engine (cylinder scouring, etc.) We had this happen on 2 engines before (Briggs 11 & 12 HP) and it eventually led to the demise of one, and probably did some damage to the other (but we caught it earlier every time it happened.) I'm kinda scared because we're having it happen to our Kaw 19! (but much less gas in the oil) We have a good dealer, so we might have a better time. And to beat it all, we'll probably be mowing at the end of the month!
03-05-2001, 03:17 PM
Mine was only run for about 5 seconds. You could still feel the synthetic oil in it. So I am good on the motor.
03-05-2001, 03:21 PM
Engine Damage Due too Excessive Gas in Crankcase Oil!
One other thing that will prevent this is Check the Oil more often.
On walk behinds we checked everytime we started the machine & or everytime we ran a full tank of gas through it too, yep if even tiny lawn, all it takes is piece of wire, string,etc... to rip out that bottom oil sump seal & you lost your oil very quickly. Results thrown rod.
Really on the big mowers too, we checked at least a couple of times a day or mower.
If you make it a regular practice, it will do nothing but Save you Time & Money!
We check ours before we start it up at the beginning of the day, and also, when you use multi-viscosity oil, it uses more during hot weather. One thing my Grandpa always said, CHECK THE OIL! We once had the carb get flooded from the float/needle stuck, and it got into the crankcase through the crankcase breather. Both me and my Dad aren't strangers around engines. My other Grandpa used to be the head mechanic at the patrol station, so when we get a big problem, we call him!
03-05-2001, 09:14 PM
There is one simple answer to this problem of gas in the oil. Its something I have done for years just because of the very problem everyone of you have. Very simple "turn the gass off when you park your machine". No matter if its on the trailer, at the job site, or setting in the shed get into the habit of turning the gas off it will stop alot of problems, like explosions and/or injurys.
03-05-2001, 10:48 PM
Guess that thread we talked on at the other site has turned ugly for you. Like I said over there, for those who have not read it, one of the Exmark dealers around me had a real sore spot for this Kaw situation. My problem is that in my gut, it is telling me to get the Kaw engine. Don't know why, it just is.
So that is what I did, I bought one in a Toro Z. Got a 27hp LiqCool Kaw. I was really planning on buying Exmark. But, due to the one dealer not liking the Kaw set-up and me just not liking the other local Exmark dealer, I went with a dealer that I liked and that had no troubles with Kaw. Not to mention I got a good deal on the Z Master (2001) and a used (2yrs old) Exmark 48" hydro wb. Got both for just over 10k.
Felt more comfortable going with the LiqC for longevitiy purposes. Everyone raves about the Exmark cut, but I have not read many negative things about the new big Toro's. Just hope I went a good way. Too late to turn back now, as they say. I feel good about the purchase though, and I feel confident in the dealer behind the purchase.
Hoss, I will stay on them from my end on trying to make sure that these problems go away. If enough of us do,then hopefully they (Kaw) will start to listen. If not, can you say Kohler here we come!!! I can and will if they try to screw around. ;)
03-06-2001, 02:00 AM
Most dealers around here would rather have kohlers. The parts are much easier to get, so your not down as much. I think the kawis are good motors, but like you and I discussed, kawi seems to not care about the end user. They also have a bad reputation for replacement parts.
I am going to try another dealer. I bought my exmark wb from him. He is just farther away. About 1 hour drive due to traffic and location. The exmark rep knows him very well and says I should not have the same types of problems from him.
I do not blame you at all for choosing service over product due to my last situation. I hope my new dealer works out, because I want to remain with exmark.
03-07-2001, 01:52 AM
Hoss, fill me in. I'm in your area. Where are these two exmark dealers. I have a Toro, 12.5 kawasaki. So far no problems except extra pulls to get it started in cold weather.
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