Mowers at Landscapersupply.com

[Youngster]

I was browsing around on their webpage and noticed their walkbehinds. They have a 48&quot; Hydro WB with 14 hp kawasaki motor for $3299! This is very cheap compared to other hydros i've priced. has anyone used these machines or know anything about them? Thanks<p>Youngster<p>----------<br>Cashin' in on Others Laziness!!!!<br>

[jeffyr]

Youngster,<p>I didn't try the hydro, but I took one of their belt drives around their parking lot....that was enough for me. Not to say it's not worth the money. But if you are spending $3300, go and try it out. The belt drive was a little jerky handling. (my 93 bobcat I bought used handles better).<p>jeff

[mowerconsultant]

I would stay as far away from those units as possible.<br>they are made by black rock (same ownership family as landscapers supply)<br>and they are not a good unit to say the least.

[Youngster]

Well, i should have done a search on this before i posted it!!!! I have already made my mind not to buy one of these! When i did a search every thing i found was bad! Sorry bout wasting the space on the board. LOL. <p>Youngster<p>----------<br>Cashin' in on Others Laziness!!!!<br>

[cuttin]

I worked for many years taking care of smaller yards with 21&quot; mowers when I was younger.This is my first year with a 36&quot; belt driven walk behind,and I own the Black Rock/Landsaper Supply.I have found that there was an adjustment period to feel out and learn the machine, but so far, no complaints.I have been maitaining it properly and don't live far from the dealer, so getting parts for maintenace isn't a problem.If you don't have a dealer near you,it will cost you some serious downtime to get a part you don't have delivered.I,too,found it a bit jerky at first,but now can execute the turn/yank process without leaving a mark.I keep the blades very sharp,and both the cut and striping look really nice. This mower worked for me and my budget so far,and the location of the dealer puts me at ease.Again, if you are far from the dealer, you might not want to deal with waiting for parts to be shipped down the line.

[dougjohnson]

I bought a 52&quot;hydro from landscapers suply had nothing but trouble the belts for the blades have to be adjusted quite often as well the hydrolics bad, bad machine

[turfguy]

JUNK! NEED I SAY MORE

[ChrisYanik]

These are excellent machines.....I'd recommend them to anyone.....although I've never personally owned one.<p>Any machine you buy will make you money and last forever if you maintain it well.<p>Most all machined are well engineered. You'll have problems with any machine you buy.<p>To say that one brand of mower is a total piece to junk is an overstatment.<p>I've got 3 Ransomes Bobcats that are all 15 years old and the cut grass just as well as a Scag or Exmark or any other mower as long as they are well maintained.<p>By the way Scag and Exmark both suck. Ransomes Bobcat are the best machines out there.

[Keith]

&lt;font size=&quot;12&quot;&gt;Huh?&lt;/font&gt;<p><br><p><font size="1">Edited by: Keith

[thelawnguy]

&quot;Most all machined are well engineered.&quot;<p>This does not mean &quot;all&quot;. Most would exclude Black Rock Mfg from the well-engineered category.<p>Bill

[turfquip]

<p>How can you personally recommend a machine you've never owned? And Exmark Sucks?<p>You better ease off the ganga for a while Chris until your head clears.

[Greenkeepers]

CHRIS-<p>Don't mean to beat a dead horse here or sound like an ass. Although you must not participate/read a lot here. As said MANY times in the past, every person is going to think that their machine is the best or else they wouldn't have bought it (unless it was a really good deal). So please keep your ego out of this and keep to the facts/details :)<p>Just my opinion!<p>Mike<br>Greenkeepers

[ChrisYanik]

I have had a chance to use black rock mowers and from what I've seen, the quality of cut is just as good as any other walk-behind mower. As far as handling goes...every mower is somewhat different.....much like every car handles differently than another car. However, once you get a feel for how the mower handles, than using it day in and day out shouldn't be any problem.<p>Also, many of the major componets on these mowers,&quot;Spindles, brake shoes, pullies, belts and so on are cast and assembled the same way for every mower. Therefore there's no reason why these mowers should be considered JUNK. If that were the case, than every single mower out there should be considered JUNK.<p>How many people in this disscusion have ever owned and used one of these machines???<p>Most machines are well engineered.<br>All machines are well built.<p>And don't try telling me that the welds on these mowers crack and break. That will happen on any machine that is beaten and abused over time.<p>Just because a machine is low priced doesn't mean it's a piece of junk. Consider that the cost to built the machine may be less for BlackRock industries because they're a smaller company with less overhead than a company such as SCAG or EXMARK.<p>People have also been trashing Lesco mowers based on the fact that they're low cost machines. In reality though, Lesco mowers are just well built as any other mower and will run for years and years if properly maintained.

[ChrisYanik]

Comparing one mower to another is like comparing a Ford to a Chevy....there both good automobiles.<p>Buying a Scag is like buying a Lexus car.<p>Your paying more for the word LEXUS to be stamped on the car much like your paying more for the word SCAG to be stamped on your mower.

[turfguy]

WE HAD A 48 HYDRO UNIT......UHHHGH HOSES LEAKED,VIBRATION,POOR TRACKING, ONE BAD CASTER...NEVER AGAIN...I THINK ITS SAFE TO ADVISE AGAINST THESE LOW END BUGET UNITS IF YOU WANT TO STAY PROFITABLE!....MORE TROUBLE IN THE FIRST YEAR THAN WE EVER HAD WITH OUR THREE SCAG HYDRO UNITS. I WOULD RATHER HAVE A SHARP STICK IN THE EYE THAN ANOTHER BLACKROCK.....OH YEA...ONCE THE CHECK CLEARED THE DEALER DIDNT WANT TO HEAR IT...&quot;HEY YOU SAVED 1100 BUCKS&quot;<br>R

[Lanelle]

I was talking to an equipment dealer yesterday who put this whole topic into perspective I thought. He said that one company will do a really good job for several years with certain classes of mowers or machines in general, and then will make some changes and may have a few 'off' years with their products while another company will make improvements. So, its a cyclical situation. That why he sells several brands so he doesn't have to push a bad mower on to established customers.

[Scag48]

Chris-You're not just paying for the name. Okay, maybe you are but you get alot more than that. An excellent warranty on most, built better, better features etc, and so on. I don't just like 1 brand, I like 3 brands, Toro, Exmark, and Scag. Take Toro for example. They have been making mowers for over 50 years.How long has Black Rock been making them? Experience is the key to success and look where Toro is today, kickin' some major butt in grounds care. My point, stick with name brands.

[Richard Martin]

Chris Yanik wrote:<p>{Also, many of the major componets on these mowers,&quot;Spindles, brake shoes, pullies, belts and so on are cast and assembled the same way for every mower}<p>They may be manufactured the same way but that doesn't mean they have the same quality. As an example take 2 oil filters, a Airmax (Landscaper Supply sells these) and a Amsoil (they come standard on Dixie Choppers). They look the same on the outside but if you think for one moment that the Airmax filter will protect your engine like the Amsoil filter does then you're crazy. Filtering specs for the Airmax are probably above 25 micron while the Amsoil filter is 1 micron. Also the Amsoil filter will hold considerably more dirt and contaminates before bypassing than the Airmax. The parts on The Landscaper mowers may look the same as the parts on Exmarks, Bobcats and Scags but that doesn't make them the same. You get what you pay for, plain and simple. <p>

[Runner]

This is why some of the equipment is sold at &quot;bargain&quot; prices and some is not. And just for your info Chris?, Lesco doesn't build their mowers. And please, let's not try to put other mowers down- especially machines like Uncle Dane's (Skag) and Exmark. When I read that it took me back to memories of a kid saying. &quot;Oh yeah, well my dad can beat UP your dad!&quot; :)

[lawnmark]

i own a 48 ztr rider ,byers gold with an 18 kohler, all in all it's a pretty good machine. Bought it at Sam's of all places for about 3900 bucks in 1996. It is the same mower that landscapers supply sells in their catalogue now. With the addition of the double blades the thing is striping like never before and mulches everything in sight! Rides a little rough, holds a hill ok(not a bunch of hills in orlando anyway), Machine has about 1500 hours on it with no major problems. Probably will keep as a backup when a new machine is purchased. Don't like the idea of having a machine with no dealer to service it even though John Deere dealer works on it when neccesary. Sure3 seems like a good deal when you look at the price but in the end most will probably be happier with a major brand like chopper, walker, or exmark. Kind of funny to mention the first two together but each has its place, and heard alot of good things about exmarks.

[scagman]

Scag = Lexus The lanscaper = Kia

Need I say more!!

[vipermanz]

Or Could It Be

Scag=Viper(or your choice) Lsc=Yugo:confused:

[scagman]

I just thought of a great idea if the landscaper and scag are practically the same machines in quality. Being already painted the same color and costing alot less than a scag/lexus all us scag boys will just buy these off the net sand off "THE LANDSCAPER" and paint scag. Then when the new fake scag breaks down we will sit on our a$$e$ until the parts come in then take it to the local shop and wait some more, damm Im smart!!!

[eslawns]

I haven't used (or seen) any Black Rock mowers other than mine (48" gear 14hp Kawi) but I've used mine for 3 years. I have had 2 problems with it in that time:

1. The engine (not BR's fault) recoil starting lugs broke. This is a common problem with this series of Kawi, and the parts were in stock at my Lesco dealer.

2. There is a problem with the OPC wiring. The OPC handles need to be held down to start the mower. I never had it fixed, I just used a wire tie to secure it. If I need to kill the engine, there is a key switch.

However, this minor problem is enough to get me to not buy another mower from them. Is it a bad machine? No, it's an outstanding machine, with an excellent cut. But... ALL machines break, and when one of mine does, I want the dealer to fix it right now. IMO, this mower has earned its money, but until there is a local dealer, I'll stick with Exmark or Husky.

I have never used a Scag mower, so I can't say anything about them. IMO, they are overpriced, which would be OK, if you got something for the money. But there are a lot of machines out there that will do the same job for a lot less money. Around here the guys who run Scags love the walk behinds and despise the Z's. I can't think of a single person I know who is happy with a Scag rider. It doesn't mean they're junk, it means these people were probably expecting something more for their extra $3000 and when they didn't get it, they felt ripped off.

[thfireman]

I drove a friends Husky Rider the other day. I dont own a rider but I have used a few in the last 2 years and the Husky to me drives the best. I seem to be able to handle it better and smoother than any other I have driven. Does anyone else have an opinion on this. I might buy a rider next year and I need feed back.

On the other hand I have had a few rider owners say they are over rated and would rather just use the WB with jungle wheels when possible. Feedback Please!!

Thanks
Roger:blob2:

[PAPS]

about 6 years ago i bought a Byer Gold 48'' belt from Landscape supply... got 1 season out of it and it was trash... left it at the curb.

[lawnkid]

Hey Chris Yanik, where in Ohio are you from? What is your company name. Do you mow lawns in the Euclid area.

[landscaper1]

I have read through many threads concerning the Landscapers Supply mowers, the good, bad and the ugly. I would like to share with you a view from the inside of that company, for I started it seventeen years ago. Our goal from the beginning was to provide the professional landscaper a choice between buying full retail, like any homeowner, and wholesale, as do contractors in other industries. We did this at first by creating a catalog which we sent out to as many landscape companies as we could find. We sourced the majority of our products from American companies to guarantee as best we were able a quality product. In most cases we succeeded. When we were made aware of problems, we changed suppliers, or better defined the grade of product we expected. When it came to equipment, we found the big boys coming out against us with all their guns smoking. It was one thing cutting into their margins on parts and accessories, it was altogether another matter challenging them on equipment. The result was that we were forced to go to the smaller less successful manufacturers. Although these guys tried their very best to produce a quality product, often times they fell short of the quality you guys deserve and expect. Over the years between 1996 through 2000, we sweated every mower, working on one aspect of its operation or another listening to each and every customer who had a comment or a complaint. We made a host of improvements. Most of the time those improvements fixed the problems, sometimes they created different problems. Finally with our production of 2001 we seemed to get it all right. We began hearing genuine compliments, some of which are written here in these various threads, like those from eslawns, grateful11, Mike Nelson, and John Dimartino, to name a few. For the past two years we have run a less than half a percent in warranty repairs, as against the industry average of approximately two and a half percent. It would be bad form to speak of those improvements here, I simply wanted to share with you the difficult process. The intent of our company has been from the start to offer the best value for the money in the industry. We remain committed to that policy.
To improve our service response to our customers, in 2002 we implemented a new service program. If a customer purchases a piece of equipment from us and runs into a service problem within the warranty period, we will contact an independent repair center in their area, and pay that repair center 125% of the industry's suggested repair rate for that particular repair. And as an incentive to repair our produsts quickly, we will pay that repair center immediately upon them faxing us a signed bill that the customer was satisfied. We will pay this using a company credit card. In an industry that rarely pays its warranty bills in less than 90-120 days, we have found this is a welcomed innovation. Of course there are repair centers who will not participate, but we will locate one within the customers area who will. I have always been open to constructive suggestions, for there is no other way to improve, but I know that we have earnestly tried to serve this industry with all of our strengths and even our weaknesses. I tried to make this response to your comments without being self serving, please accept my apologies if I may have gone too far. We wish you all, in these difficult times, the greatest of success.

[thfireman]

:)

BRAVO!!! Man you should write speaches for the White House! That was a well written response and sounds like you folks are honest in your efforts. Send Me a cataloge and I will try you out!

E-Mail me for my address!

:angel:

[marley]

I USED A 48 INCH GEAR DRIVE(LANDSCAPERS SUPPLY) MODEL BEFORE I STARTED MY OWN BUSINESS FOR 2 SEASON AND IT WAS A TANK. THE THING WAS ****ING TOUGH!! I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THIER HYDROS BUT THE GEAR DRIVES ARE GOOD UNITS.

[TLS]

While I never responded to the original thread, I was here back then and read it then and read it again now.

Landscaper1 summed it up pretty good, and was very well written. Their mowers do stack up VERY well on paper. They are using the same parts and engines that the big 2 use.

I believe some of the bad press that they recieved was mainly "word of mouth". This same "word of mouth" is what can make or break a company. Some of the negative comments made by actual owners were comments that you could hear from the owner of ANY manufacturers product. Sometimes negative rumors really "snowball" here on Lawnsite, and even POSITIVE rumors can "snowball" sometimes too!

As for walkbehinds, If I were in the position to replace mine, I would seriously consider a Landscaper. I am fairly knowledgeable when it comes to diagnosing equipment problems, and these mowers are no different from the Big 2.

I haven't ever seen one in person, but by reading their specs and looking at their pictures in their catalog, I simply see a decent mower at a great price.

[marley]

Like I said, the gear drive model that i used 5 years ago, that mower was probably two years old at that point and it was a charger! Very simple machine / easy to fix.

[sbvfd592]

yes i have a 36 inch with the 14hp cuts grate i just have to turn on the blades did that twice 2day:D hey it was a hot looken girl so ya know how the game gose

[DaveK]

Hey Chris Yanik, where in Ohio are you from? Lawnkid, Chris Yanik posted that about TWO years ago, so he may not even be around any longer.

In defense of the landscaper, most of the negative posts here were from the year 2000. This discussion has spanned 2 years, and landscaper1 is defending comments made 2 years ago about machines that were made 2 or more years ago.

Every manufacturer goes through cycles as Lanelle mentioned. The American auto manufacturers were turning out junk for nearly ten years in the 70s. And that is what gave the Japanese a chance to gain market share, and nearly caused Chrysler to close it's doors. And now how many of you drive Dodge Rams?

With all the good recommendations for scag in this thread, they could cut back and turn out Yugo quality for a few years and many of you would still buy them. Reputation (good or bad) is not everything, you should base your decisions on the model that is in the showroom since it probably has improvements over last years model (based on consumer suggestions and warranty claims).

Rather than trashing ANY manufacturer where your words are heard (read) for many years to come, you should be talking to company reps about your complaints and suggestions. A bad reputation by word of mouth is hard enough to overcome, but when it is archived and brought back to life after 2 years, most of it should be disregarded. Much of it is irrelevant.

Maybe threads could be locked automatically if there are no new posts within 6 months or so. Members could still search and find old topics, but not be able to drag old garbage out of the attic.

That's my 2&#162;

[bart may]

I own their 48 Z rider. I'll start with good and then to my personal experience and complaints. The mower stripes really nice and seems to be built tough. I've had terrible problems with the little parts and that has left a bad taste in my mouth. I've gone through 3 idler pulleys in about 300 hours. They look like the ones on my Toro's but aren't, constant failure. The deck height adjustment rod has bent twice due too the heavy deck and inferior metal rods. I'm going to fabricate my own next time. I live out West and it's been hell trying to get help with the problems I've had on them. They always act like I'm the only one they've ever seen with that problem. Well like I mentioned I've gone through those problems at least twice. Anyway I've learned my lesson with mail order mowers. we all know how down time will kill you and I can't afford to take that risk again. It's a back up mower now. I hope they truely do make some improvements and more importantly listen to the contractors using their products. I believe with some changes they can compete in the "long run" with the big guys.

[GTLC]

If Black Rock Manufacturing was like eXmark, then this pimpin' AMC Gremlin would be like Mercedes:

[hoyboy]

Three years ago I bought one of the Landscaper riders (52") and two of their walkbehinds. I had a couple minor problems with the walkbehinds, but overall was not a bad purchase.

HOWEVER....

The rider was a HUGE disappointment. The electrical components were all messed up, the welding was very poor...I could go on for a long time. Bottom line is Landscapers Supply wouldn't back up the equipment. I had to deal with Black Rock. Many hours on the phone and Black Rock told us there was a problem but couldn't fix it because it was purchased through landscapers supply...blah blah blah...

What a joke...

I will never buy from them again. It is a complete piece of junk.

Dan