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bobcat175
07-06-2005, 09:53 AM
Is it ok to add super sand (polymeric) to pavers that already have joint sand in it? I read on the super sand site that they say to pressure wash the joint sand out. Is this a must?

This is a new patio and some of the seams are opening up. Is it common for them to come back to fill again or is it my issue now?

UNISCAPER
07-10-2005, 05:34 PM
First of all, just because the sand is not all the way at the top of the beveled edge, it does not mean it has not locked. People drive me nuts with that one. On the other side of it, with sand stacked into the joint, they gripe about tracking sand into the house, so it's better to leave the sand lower. It won't hurt a thing.
You can sweep super sand over sand in the joints after you get most of it out, but there is a far better way than that in my opinion.

The downside to polmeric sands are that unless you get every crumb off the pavers when you wet it down, you will end up with a stain in the paver.

And, you won't be able to sweep the polmeric the same day as the pressure wash because the pavers have to dry.

In our neckl of the woods, all sand is wet when we get it...So, we use joining sand in bags, #16, or #20 and then seal the pavers using Surebond latex based poly sealer. Surebond forms a plastic coating over the joints, similar to polmeric sands, and enhances the color of the pavers at the same time. If any efflourseeence is on the pavers, you need to either let the sun burn it off, or clean it somehow before you seal. After sealer has hardened any efflouressence will form on top of the plastic coating and can easily be washed away with a simple garden hose.

I'm not at all a big fan of polmeric sands, never will be until they can perfect the product more than it is..

YardPro
07-11-2005, 07:32 AM
we are now using nothing but poly sand. never had an issue with staining.

mbella
07-11-2005, 08:10 AM
We had a problem last year with one brand. There was too much powder in the mix. No matter what you did, it left a stain on the pavers. It weathered off in about six months, but I didn't feel like explaining that to the customer after every job so we swithched to something else. Other than that, no problems.

UNISCAPER
07-11-2005, 11:27 AM
That is the problem Mike. Ideally, we want the job done, we want to get paid the full amount agreed without any pissing matches going on, or grace period to collect. Ideally, I want to sweep the joining sand, clean up and get my check. There is no proof that sealers enhance paver life, and all polmeric sands fail over time from the sun. And then there is good old reliable.... It's called elbow grease. If homeowners were not so hell bent on maintenance free landscapes, which is an oxymoron itself, and they maintained the pavers with a little round up or good old elbow grease, we would not need to worry about stained pavers, comming back to seal after they dry or any related BS such as that.

That is the exact reason why we use color hardening agents in concrete, so we don't have any streaking, the stuff sets up, we pull our stakes and forms, get the check and go.

For years paver systems worked with a good base and sand swept into the joints. And though polmeric sands have been around a few years now, I personally am not so impressed that I'm going to run out and use the stuff.

mbella
07-11-2005, 04:47 PM
Bill, the best part about the problem we had last year was that the manufacturer denied there was a problem. The rep insisted we didn't clean the pavers well enough. Believe me we did and it didn't matter. After the first job I thought maybe it was a freak incident. However, after the second I knew there was a problem and we switched. Here's the funny part. This year our vendor informs me that the problems from last year are fixed. I said, "what problem?"

It's no laughing matter though, that stain can hold your money up for a long time.

kootoomootoo
07-11-2005, 07:44 PM
We had to powerwash a job this year after we tried a new polymeric sand from our usual supplier........it was in the little cracks in the actual pavers even after sweeping/handblowing 3 friggin times....never again.....

UNISCAPER
07-11-2005, 09:40 PM
You gotta love it when factories point fingers....They want us to use their crap, we use it, and then when ti fails, blame us...Sounds like a pretty good gig if you can get people dumb enough to keep swallowing it huh?

YardPro
07-12-2005, 07:09 PM
we use the techniseal polysand ans are very happy with the results.

biggest benefits i see are:

since we do a lot of pool decks, no sand from the pavers ends up in the pool.

no sand washout from water running acrosss the joints

no weeds in the joints.

colors match the paver colors.

bobcat175
07-13-2005, 09:52 AM
mbella - so what product had the problem and what did you switch to?

Is the reason that I need to wash out the sand to put poly sand because of just making room for the poly sand to get into the cracks. Meaning if the sand has settled then I'm ok? Or is it something else. I figure if it bonds to the paver then it will bond to the sand.

mbella
07-13-2005, 02:21 PM
The problem polymer was Techo-Bloc. We switched to Techni seal.

bobcat175
07-13-2005, 03:05 PM
Thanks- Do you use the HP or RG?

SCL
07-24-2005, 12:39 PM
I have been using Techni Seal with good results. Last year I got a good deal on a pallet of Sta-Loc. This stuff went in so easy, just like silica. Cut my sweeping time in half. Sounds great, you say? This year its all washed out or the ants are building condos in it. Did a 4000 foot drive and a 400 foot patio and have to power wash and resand. Big savings, huh? My supplier is less than helpful and I've called Sta-loc twice, but they won't return my calls. Imagine that! Back to techni seal and deal with the gravel.

sheshovel
07-24-2005, 01:24 PM
Tell your customers like I tell mine....There is no such thing as a maintenance free landscape .They do not exist..