PDA

View Full Version : I need some help with broadleaf weeds


Olylawnboy
07-13-2005, 02:56 AM
I have 15k ft of what used to be nice turf 15 years ago, to try and rehabilitate. It belongs to the woman I rent my shop space from. It's so covered with weeds now that I expect the grass will be totaly gone in another two years.
The property is surounded by a native plant nursery that want's no use of chems on the property, and I can understand that.
So I'm asking what can I do to knock out broadleaf weeds organicly in a good sized area that was and should be grass? And time is not problem, I can take a year or two or more, to get what I can when I can if I can figure out how. It's had no fert of any kind over the same 15 years either, so I do plan on areating this fall and again in spring and spreading what meal, gluten, etc and seed, what ever I can to try to get this place to get back to grass.
Any ideas?, help would be great :) Oh, and it's not irrigated but could be. Thanks, Oly

TurfProSTL
07-13-2005, 03:15 AM
Maybe an application of herbicide to start off. How would this affect the neighboring nursery if you apply it correctly?

Then do your organic, no chemical, magic on the place.....

Olylawnboy
07-13-2005, 03:24 AM
Hey thanks, but chem is just not an option for these people. And I understand what your saying and thanks :)

NattyLawn
07-13-2005, 06:42 AM
You can try the Green Guardian orgnanic broadleaf weed control that Farm Crop Extracts has. They are a sponsor on here, so check that out.
If you're aerating and overseeding in the fall and spring, I would skip the CG, and apply straight organic fert.

Good Luck...

kthhayes
07-15-2005, 01:40 AM
Got some in but no time to play as of yet, you should be able to thicken the lawn enough to kill out the weeds through over-seeding, and the correct NPK as needed in the lawn your working on. For now, get the NPK in order, and if soil conditions are favorable, areate now. First get a soil test to determine what is lacking. Also cut the lawn a bit longer, 3 1/2' to 4" to help the roots grow deeper. This process works wonders, but here in Ohio it wolnt solve the clover problem, that is why I'm trying the Green Guardian.

Neal Wolbert
07-19-2005, 01:06 AM
Getting ready to try some Green Guardian for broadleaf weeds in Washington State. Care to share your experience with this product with me? Neal

sheshovel
07-20-2005, 01:38 PM
Well this is what I would do.Cut it as low as you can,moisten it well then put a thick mill plastic sheeting over the whole area,black is fine cuz you dont really want to solarize it with clear stuff.Then pin it down tight all round so hardly any air gets in,then wait 2 months in the hot summer.take it off or look under,and make sure it is all dead.Remove the plastic rake it out well,till it and amend it and seed the heck out of it.in fall

FLD
07-23-2005, 06:02 AM
Sheshovel,

Would this not kill everythingunder the plastic, both good and bad? KIlling the weeds and the microbs also?

SodKing
07-23-2005, 07:25 AM
Sheshovel,

Would this not kill everythingunder the plastic, both good and bad? KIlling the weeds and the microbs also?


Thats the iea. there are no effective organics that will control just broadleaf weeds. You will not use a selective herbicide even though when used properly and drift is managed, it will offer no harm to your native plants.

If you want to control all the broadleaf weeds without the use of control products grab your favorite steak knife and go out and hand weed the area.

NattyLawn
07-23-2005, 10:47 AM
Sheshovel,

Would this not kill everythingunder the plastic, both good and bad? KIlling the weeds and the microbs also?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but UV rays kill microbes, but if they have nothing to feed on, their number might drop anyway.

SodKing
07-24-2005, 07:23 AM
Have you offered to spray the area with a shielded sprayer?

FLD
07-24-2005, 11:43 AM
Killing everything with the plastic would bring you to the pint of steril soil. The you would have to start over with compost and foods to rebuild the soil. Would it not be better to do a complete soil test to see what the soil needs so the grass can out compete the weeds. Grass grows better in a soil with a one to one bacterial to fungal biomass, so if the weeds have taken over slowly over the last 15? yrs, it seens that the soil is missing something that the grass needs to out compete the weeds. Testing is expensive, but it is the only sure way to know what the soil needs. We use SFW New York but David said that he knew/used? a less expensive lab. David?

organictwo
02-17-2006, 12:05 PM
Use the Green Guardian product. Spray it once a week for three weeks, and then aerate, seed, and water.

After establishment, you will have to do the three-spray program again and the weeds will be wiped out.

I use the green guardian- selective broadleaf product with terrific results.

cowboy bob
02-18-2006, 08:30 AM
Could you tell me more about Green guardian. I am looking into starting up an organic program. Where do you get it from? Also what is the price?

NattyLawn
02-18-2006, 10:12 AM
Could you tell me more about Green guardian. I am looking into starting up an organic program. Where do you get it from? Also what is the price?

Green Guardian is a site sponsor and have a forum on here. Price is dependent on how much you're purchasing.

www.farmcropextracts.com

trying 2b organic
02-19-2006, 12:42 PM
I have renovated many lawns chemical free. My best and most cost effective results in a case such as yours is from:

1. Topdress with compost (1 yd per k)
2. Heavy overseed
3. Organic based starter fert.

With proper watering you will have a new lawn. Do it at a time where you get less competition from weeds. For eg here in PNW I would do it in March not May.


btw dont worry about killing benificial micro organisms. They are easily replaced. A skim of compost or an app of compost tea will do it, thats for the above posting about killing with black plastic.

edit, my compost is a local product called sea soil, use excellent compost that you know has been made weed free.

Norm Al
02-24-2006, 08:50 PM
here you go,,,try this... www.crabgrassalert.com somebody will probably come up with a dumb reason why you shouldnt try it tho!

TurfProSTL
02-24-2006, 10:35 PM
^ I wouldn't apply anything without being able to check out the label first.

What exactly is this stuff? How much do you apply? What is the cost?

Norm Al
02-25-2006, 10:46 AM
did you check out the label for corn gluten? did it work? how much does it cost?

man dude make an investment,,,,call the people,,,,,you got any other alternatives for killing weeds?

TurfProSTL
02-25-2006, 12:21 PM
I figured it was over-priced, small packages of corn gluten. The company is so proud of this fact it doesn't post the label on-line and lists the ingredients on the MSDS as proprietary (top secret).

No thanks.

For crabgrass, I will continue to use lower-rate pre-emergent herbicides. Dimension, for example, does a decent job at a single application rate of 1/4 of a pound AI per acre. Costs less, easier on trucks and equipment and applicators, and does a better job than CGM ever will. And you are spreading out 1/4 lb of chemical (eek) over an acre of turf.....

Norm Al
02-25-2006, 12:44 PM
so dimension is now organic?

TurfProSTL
02-25-2006, 01:07 PM
so dimension is now organic?
No one here said it was. I thought this thread was about controlling weeds.....

Organic products are the way to go IMO, except when they are too expensive and/or impractical. I used Dimension as an example of a chemical pre-emergent due to its low use rate, hence less impact on the environment.

Norm Al
02-25-2006, 01:23 PM
hey man im sorry i thought you realised you were in the organics forum!

sheshovel
02-25-2006, 01:29 PM
absoltuly..so?Then you add your organic matter and rebuild the soil and plant.

TurfProSTL
02-25-2006, 01:36 PM
I'm in the turf management business, not playing a game of Organic vs Not. I'll continue to utilize the best of both worlds to provide the best lawns possible. At a profit.

Is this an organic lawn care forum or an anti-chemical forum?

Norm Al
02-25-2006, 01:39 PM
i agree with you pro!

but the original post in this thread was this:
Olylawnboy
LawnSite Member Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Oly Wa
Posts: 214

I need some help with broadleaf weeds

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have 15k ft of what used to be nice turf 15 years ago, to try and rehabilitate. It belongs to the woman I rent my shop space from. It's so covered with weeds now that I expect the grass will be totaly gone in another two years.
The property is surounded by a native plant nursery that want's no use of chems on the property, and I can understand that.
So I'm asking what can I do to knock out broadleaf weeds organicly in a good sized area that was and should be grass? And time is not problem, I can take a year or two or more, to get what I can when I can if I can figure out how. It's had no fert of any kind over the same 15 years either, so I do plan on areating this fall and again in spring and spreading what meal, gluten, etc and seed, what ever I can to try to get this place to get back to grass.
Any ideas?, help would be great Oh, and it's not irrigated but could be. Thanks, Oly

so i assumed this person needed a organic method!
__________________

TurfProSTL
02-25-2006, 01:40 PM
absoltuly..so?Then you add your organic matter and rebuild the soil and plant.Exactly. Been doing it this way (for those that will pay) for 5 seasons with good results. Plan to continue until there is a PROVEN, PRACTICAL "organic" alternative.....

TurfProSTL
02-25-2006, 01:43 PM
i agree with you pro!

but the original post in this thread was this:


so i assumed this person needed a organic method!
__________________
My bad. I didn't go back to the original post, just the most recent replies.....

Carry on.

ndunn
03-08-2006, 07:10 PM
so anybody know what's in the green guardian? says post-emergent, so that rules out cgm unless I'm confused by all this beer. I've never seen the product before and the website is vague. Or maybe I'm just blind. or then again, they do write post emergent in little quotation marks ' ' Maybe I should start a brand of cgm called 'post-emergent-selective-weed-killer'.

Norm Al
03-12-2006, 09:33 AM
what i have gathered from the website about green guardian is that if you apply enough of it at the right time some of the weeds will die!

which weeds?

the pocess must work because no one woud market a product that people would purchase 1 time! would they?

haymaker
03-23-2006, 09:21 AM
Green Guardian products provide pre and post emergent control and I have success on crab grass

If you want to start over on a lawn use GG's EMG to kill everything, build up the soil, apply GG's 18-0-5 or 5-0-3, seed, and continue with GG's standard program after three weeks. You might want to add some phosphros as its a new seeding.

nocutting
03-23-2006, 03:44 PM
I'm in the turf management business, not playing a game of Organic vs Not. I'll continue to utilize the best of both worlds to provide the best lawns possible. At a profit.

Is this an organic lawn care forum or an anti-chemical forum?
Since "We" are the Organic Forum, it would make no-sence for Us to have anything to do with Chemical ferts or chemical pesticides.......arent there already enough forums on lawnsite for you guys to continue to downgrade the enviroment?......its not like "We're Gay Bashing"..........how about tryin to stay on topic [ keepin the "Profit" to yourself]...............................................................................................Regar ding the original question, I'd soil test,apply something like sythe to top burn the weeds, slit seed vertically and horizontally, apply a heat treated / sanitized compost, apply a balanced N-P-K and then redo the process in the fall useing DTTF.......hopefully w/both mixs endophyte enhanced. [ then continue to follow the soil report]:usflag: .......PS no offence but some of "US" are here to make Great Lawns and a profit "Organically"

TurfProSTL
03-23-2006, 08:20 PM
Since "We" are the Organic Forum, it would make no-sence for Us to have anything to do with Chemical ferts or chemical pesticides.......arent there already enough forums on lawnsite for you guys to continue to downgrade the enviroment?......its not like "We're Gay Bashing"..........how about tryin to stay on topic [ keepin the "Profit" to yourself]...............................................................................................Regar ding the original question, I'd soil test,apply something like sythe to top burn the weeds, slit seed vertically and horizontally, apply a heat treated / sanitized compost, apply a balanced N-P-K and then redo the process in the fall useing DTTF.......hopefully w/both mixs endophyte enhanced. [ then continue to follow the soil report]:usflag: .......PS no offence but some of "US" are here to make Great Lawns and a profit "Organically"
:rolleyes: Seems kind of contradictory to me.

Scythe is 57% pelargonic acid, a pesticide regulated by the EPA. That's right, a chemical. Why not just dump about 10 tons of CGM on the lawn? That would kill it.

If you're going to preach your anti-chemical views, at least try to be consistent.....