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View Full Version : Gas Mileage V10 -vs -5.4 Lt V8


SOONER GREEN
07-20-2005, 06:34 PM
Im lookin at f-250s. They say the V10 will get @ 15 mpg. The 5.4lt V8 @ 17 mpg any truth to that? Im leaning toward the 5.4 but the best deal I've found is on a V10. Im looking at 2000 thru 2003 year models, anyone have any experience with these models good or bad?

PLM-1
07-20-2005, 06:43 PM
Towing, that V10 will get better mileage. Take that for what it's worth.

cet
07-20-2005, 07:36 PM
I would guess that if you drive a lot and tow a lot the extra money that you would have to pay per month for a diesel would be less then the extra that you are going to spend in fuel. Just my 2 cents.

Roger
07-20-2005, 10:45 PM
I have a 2003 F-250 XL model (basic work truck), with the 5.4. I have a cap on the back, with a shelf for more space. I pull a 6.5X12 Big-Tex, single axle, with a w/b and two hand mowers, plus a few other items (all power equipment is on the shelf under the cap, secure and dry). I work solo, with about 40 customers, doing primarily mowing. All travel is local neighborhoods. I bought in Aug 2003, and now have about 9,400 miles -- so not many miles, just stop/go and short hauls. Rarely am I driving over 40 mph.

I get about 9 mpg, and I drive very easy.

I'm disappointed in the milage. It is much less than my old F-150, 4.2L in-line six, with manual transmission -- making the same haul, same routes, etc. It managed about 15 mpg.

dbear
07-21-2005, 10:33 AM
I get 12.5mpg average running empty with my F350 4x4 w/V10 and 3.73's. Have gotten as high as 16mpg, but that was open highway @ 65-70mph. Towing a 5000# to 7000# enclosed trailer, no worse than 10mpg.

Smitty58
07-21-2005, 02:47 PM
I had a 2 wheel drive 04 F250 with the 5.4 and 3.73's, got 16 empty but towing it dropped to 10-12. Now I have a 4 wheel drive 05 F-350 with 4.10's and I get 12 empty and 10 towing. I love the V-10 ,it has so much more power than the 5.4 and towing it does as good on gas as the 5.4. I would not go back to the 5.4 now that I have the V-10. So if you are going to be towing a lot, get the V-10, if it is just going to be for transportation then maybe the 5.4 would be better ,but again you will love the power of the 10.

ed2hess
07-21-2005, 09:38 PM
I can't believe that V10 would get good mileage, our F250 with 460 get 7mpg towing our lawn trailer around the city. We switched to our van with 350 and it get about 9mpg. Usually you can't get mileage info on the F250 so where are the numbers coming from? We are buying F150 in the future then we know what the mileage will be, or at least close to it.

SOONER GREEN
07-21-2005, 10:33 PM
Hey ya'll thanks for the input. I think i've decided on an 8cyl. I dont tow heavy loads that often. I have a 150 gal spray rig in my f-150 4x4 now. That weighs @ 1600 lbs full, an f-250 5.4 should get the job done. I sometimes pull a bobcat for snow removal but it doesn't snow often enough to worry about. Now if I can just find a deal on an f-250 I'll in business.

Cracker
07-21-2005, 11:59 PM
V10, you should be able to pick one up for nearly nothing.
Single didget fuel mileage, Period...

Greybeard
07-22-2005, 05:10 PM
Sooner - Before you buy that F250, check the real payload numbers. If the GVW is 8800 and the empty truck weighs almost 7000, you're going to be overweight with that tank and a couple of people on board. The truck will handle it, but don't get stopped or have an accident.
I wanted a V10 when I bought my F350 in 2000, but all those motors were going into Excursions. Mine is a 4x4 supercab longbed 5.4 with 4.10 gears and a stick shift. It has plenty of power without a trailer, and carries 3500 lbs. (or more). Biggest loads I've towed were a Bobcat 331 excavator and an overloaded dump trailer scaled at 14,000 lbs. Went down the road fine, never overheated. Also many thousands of miles pulling an 18-foot 7700-lb. box down the highway. No problems.
Mileage ranges from 9-10 towing at 70 up and down hills to 16 running empty. Usually 11-13 mpg because I've got a heavy foot. I've heard the V10 is about 1 mpg less across the board, but with more power.
Diesels are great until you have to fix 'em. In 85,000 hard miles I've spent $200 on a new serp belt. My buddy has a diesel, he runs all local short trips, and I know he has over 10 grand in repairs in 65,000 miles. Nothing major, just injectors and pumps and glow plugs and starters, etc.
Good luck with your purchase. You'll be fine if you do your homework. GB

Smalltimer1
07-24-2005, 05:00 PM
I would guess that if you drive a lot and tow a lot the extra money that you would have to pay per month for a diesel would be less then the extra that you are going to spend in fuel. Just my 2 cents.

Diesel is 20 cents higher than premium 93 octane gas. The V-10 also only requires 1/3 the amount of oil the diesel does, and the filter is less than a 1/5 the cost of a diesel filter. There is no way a diesel could come off cheaper than the V-10 unless he's putting 80k/yr. or more on that truck.

Grassmechanic
07-25-2005, 08:46 AM
Diesel is 20 cents higher than premium 93 octane gas. The V-10 also only requires 1/3 the amount of oil the diesel does, and the filter is less than a 1/5 the cost of a diesel filter. There is no way a diesel could come off cheaper than the V-10 unless he's putting 80k/yr. or more on that truck.
My cummins is much cheaper to operate than my gas powered F-250. The offset is that the diesel gets much better fuel economy (20 -23 mpg) compared to the ford (13-16mpg). An oil change is only $10 difference between the two. Reg gas runs today about $2.25 gal, mid grade $2.33, premium $2.45, diesel $2.39.

Drew Gemma
07-25-2005, 11:20 AM
i want a diesel but I did the math and their is no way it saves me money unless I am putting serious miles on it every week. diesel is 30 cents more a gallon

olderthandirt
07-25-2005, 11:29 AM
i want a diesel but I did the math and their is no way it saves me money unless I am putting serious miles on it every week. diesel is 30 cents more a gallon
Amen to that! I have them and there initial cost plus the additional cost of fuel makes them a loosing proposition UNLESS I plan on driving them till they die. I don't like down time or trucks that might need repairs so I get rid of them long before that comes. BTW I'm on my 5th diesel and my last. I also have a 2002 F250 Auto 4x4 with 373 gears and its only good for 10-11mpg empty.

Smalltimer1
07-25-2005, 12:17 PM
My cummins is much cheaper to operate than my gas powered F-250. The offset is that the diesel gets much better fuel economy (20 -23 mpg) compared to the ford (13-16mpg). An oil change is only $10 difference between the two. Reg gas runs today about $2.25 gal, mid grade $2.33, premium $2.45, diesel $2.39.


20-23 on a Cummins is very optimistic. The best I've ever seen is 18 on one and that was a longbed 4x2 with 3.55's and a 6 spd stick. Diesel here is $2.49/gal. and gas is $2.18/gal. My 460 w/11mpg is still cheaper to run than any diesel powered pickup at these prices. Oil change is only about $25 with oil and filter. Diesel oil change is right at $50 between the cost of the oil and filter.

Grassmechanic
07-26-2005, 08:17 AM
20-23 on a Cummins is very optimistic. The best I've ever seen is 18 on one and that was a longbed 4x2 with 3.55's and a 6 spd stick. Diesel here is $2.49/gal. and gas is $2.18/gal. My 460 w/11mpg is still cheaper to run than any diesel powered pickup at these prices. Oil change is only about $25 with oil and filter. Diesel oil change is right at $50 between the cost of the oil and filter.
So, it takes you 2 gallons of $2.18 gas to go as far as one gallon of $2.49 diesel and you say that's cheaper?? You better go back to second grade and re-take basic math.

20 -23 is not optimistic with the cummins, it's an everyday occurance. I've had it since new, now has 140,000 miles. In city driving I get 19. I've never gotten below 18. EVER. Mine is 4x2 longbed, 3.55 gears and automatic. And the trans is original with no problems. 3 gallons of Delvac 1300 is $22. A filter is $7.

Your problem is that you make comments on this board about equipment that you have no real life experience with. It's always "my neighbors" or "my buddy's" or "my daddy's" or "my grandpa's boyfriend's". Do everyone a favor and re-read the forum rules and make comments only about vehicles/equipment that you OWN!

olderthandirt
07-26-2005, 02:40 PM
So, it takes you 2 gallons of $2.18 gas to go as far as one gallon of $2.49 diesel and you say that's cheaper?? You better go back to second grade and re-take basic math.

20 -23 is not optimistic with the cummins, it's an everyday occurance. I've had it since new, now has 140,000 miles. In city driving I get 19. I've never gotten below 18. EVER. Mine is 4x2 longbed, 3.55 gears and automatic. And the trans is original with no problems. 3 gallons of Delvac 1300 is $22. A filter is $7.

Your problem is that you make comments on this board about equipment that you have no real life experience with. It's always "my neighbors" or "my buddy's" or "my daddy's" or "my grandpa's boyfriend's". Do everyone a favor and re-read the forum rules and make comments only about vehicles/equipment that you OWN!
Although I have never owned one :D I do know that cummins will get 18 mpg consistently. I know from riding in one and paying for the fuel a few times. They have the Fords and Chevys beat all to hel! when it comes to fuel economy, and thats becoming a major consideration these days. Last 460 I had was a 95 bought new and owned for 7 months, 8 mpg! What a piece of crap, it was the only engine that ford built that lost Hp and mpg when they went to fuel injection.

iluvscag
07-26-2005, 03:22 PM
I would get the v-10.

Smalltimer1
07-27-2005, 01:58 AM
So, it takes you 2 gallons of $2.18 gas to go as far as one gallon of $2.49 diesel and you say that's cheaper?? You better go back to second grade and re-take basic math.

Come on down and pay what it is here and you will see that the Cummins still will cost more to operate, BTW, diesel jumped to 2.62/gal., gas went to 2.14/gal. Also with the cost of lift pumps the Cummins still gets higher. Real diesels are yellow and have Caterpillar written on them.

I wouldn't be in engineering school if I wasn't good at math.

Your problem is that you make comments on this board about equipment that you have no real life experience with. It's always "my neighbors" or "my buddy's" or "my daddy's" or "my grandpa's boyfriend's". Do everyone a favor and re-read the forum rules and make comments only about vehicles/equipment that you OWN!

Do what ever flips your skirt. I have experience with everything I comment on, the Cummins I drove was a loaner while my truck was having the glasspacks put on. I used it long enough to make an accurate judgment on it, personally I thought it was a good solid truck, but not something I'd want to endure everyday, as it was very slow and was tough to kee.

Your problem is that you have never spent a day in my shoes and you can't give accurate comments on things you haven't done yourself. Let me put it this way. I have more hours on most of the equipment that my father owns than he does, short of the sawmill and the Bobcat. I'd say I know a damn sight more than he does, because guess who he calls when they have a problem? That's right, me. I've spent enough time turning a wrench to know what I'm talking about.

I run what has been proven on the farm to WORK. That is Ford trucks, John Deere tractors, and Cat diesels in the larger trucks.

Smalltimer1
07-27-2005, 01:59 AM
Last 460 I had was a 95 bought new and owned for 7 months, 8 mpg! What a piece of crap, it was the only engine that ford built that lost Hp and mpg when they went to fuel injection.


Mine gets 11mpg average, high is 14 @ 65mph, low is 8 with 8,000lbs. in tow.

Drew Gemma
07-27-2005, 01:32 PM
lets do the mat this way the dodge cummins we had got 15mpg no matter what. the v 10 gets 10 mpg all the time. and diesel is 30cents a gallon more than gas use that to figure it out. plus diesel cost about 4,000 more up front. all maintance is about double the cost and so are repairs. by the way both of those are manual transmissions. thats what i am basing my numbers on I want a diesel just so I can drive around with a h#$% on but the numbers just don't work so I think unfortunately I am going with another gaser. aas much as I hate to do it what are you supposed to do.

SHOWCASE LAWNS LLC
07-27-2005, 03:17 PM
Sooner - Before you buy that F250, check the real payload numbers. If the GVW is 8800 and the empty truck weighs almost 7000, you're going to be overweight with that tank and a couple of people on board. The truck will handle it, but don't get stopped or have an accident.
I wanted a V10 when I bought my F350 in 2000, but all those motors were going into Excursions. Mine is a 4x4 supercab longbed 5.4 with 4.10 gears and a stick shift. It has plenty of power without a trailer, and carries 3500 lbs. (or more). Biggest loads I've towed were a Bobcat 331 excavator and an overloaded dump trailer scaled at 14,000 lbs. Went down the road fine, never overheated. Also many thousands of miles pulling an 18-foot 7700-lb. box down the highway. No problems.
Mileage ranges from 9-10 towing at 70 up and down hills to 16 running empty. Usually 11-13 mpg because I've got a heavy foot. I've heard the V10 is about 1 mpg less across the board, but with more power.
Diesels are great until you have to fix 'em. In 85,000 hard miles I've spent $200 on a new serp belt. My buddy has a diesel, he runs all local short trips, and I know he has over 10 grand in repairs in 65,000 miles. Nothing major, just injectors and pumps and glow plugs and starters, etc.
Good luck with your purchase. You'll be fine if you do your homework. GB

CUMMINS IS A GREAT MOTOR BUT UNFORTUNATELY ITS IN A DODGE
MOST DODGE DEALERS DONT HAVE A CLUE HOW TO WORK ON EM. PLUS YOU CANT GO TO A CUMMINS DEALER FOR SERVICE BECAUSE THE DODGES HAVE DIFFERENT COMPUTERS . THE ONLY WAY YOU GET FACTORY SERVICE FROM CUMMINS IS IF YOU BUG DODGE ENOUGH. I KNOW THIS THROUGH A FRIEND THAT WORKS AT A MAJOR CUMMINS ONLY DEALER. HE HATES SEEING A dodge/cummins even pull in the driveway of his shop.

Mowman29
07-27-2005, 03:50 PM
Everyone needs to Read the Article in Lawn & Landscape Mag. July 2005 It title is


Fuel Price Fallout


Read it. It will explain the beniefts of buying diesel over gas. on the long run.

I ask everyone here how many miles does your work truck get every year?

Including snow removal in the states that get snow?

25,000 - 30,000 ?

Thats about normal for a small to medium company with 50- 100 accounts.

So in 5 years the average loan term thats 150,000 miles and by the numbers the intial cost of 5,000 more for the diesel new you still will save 10,000 to 15,000 in fuel cost. That a 1/3 cost of a new truck!!!!!! Let just say I will only buy Diesel.

Smalltimer1
07-28-2005, 01:00 AM
So in 5 years the average loan term thats 150,000 miles and by the numbers the intial cost of 5,000 more for the diesel new you still will save 10,000 to 15,000 in fuel cost. That a 1/3 cost of a new truck!!!!!! Let just say I will only buy Diesel.

Where's your math?

Let's set up a hypothetical situation here.

1. Original purchase price: Gasser is let's say $30,000. Diesel is going to be $35,000 or so depending on the brand. Add another $1500 or so if you want an automatic to each one's price. So the initial purchase price is in favor of the gasser by a factor of $5000.

Advantage Gas.

2. Let's say gas is $2.20/gal. and diesel is $2.50/gal. (for the sake of easy numbers).

100 gallons of gas=$220
100 gallons of diesel=$250

Each truck has a 40 gallon tank.

The gas truck gets 10mpg. The diesel 15mpg. You each run 100 miles.

The gas truck will use $22 worth of fuel or 10 gallons. The diesel will use $16.68 of fuel or 6 2/3 gallons.

Advantage Diesel.

3. Maintenance. A quart of oil is $2.40 (taken from Autozone's price list) in either a 10W30 (gasoline engine grade oil) or 15W40 (diesel rated HD oil).

Typical gas truck will hold 6 quarts. So 6 times $2.40 is $14.60 for oil. Filter is $3. So you have a total of $17.60 in oil and filter for a gas truck.

Typical diesel truck will hold 15 quarts (last PSD I changed took that much). 15 x $2.40 is $36. Already more than twice the cost of the oil AND filter for the gasser. Now we move on to the filter. At minimum it is $19.99 so let's just say $20. None of this my sister's cousin's son's uncle can get it for $5 crap. So now your cost has jumped to $56 for a diesel oil change.

So we have almost $18 for the gasser, $56 for the diesel. You can change the oil in a gasser 3 times before you reach the cost of ONE diesel oil change. That's 9000 miles right there for almost $54. Average diesel oil change is 5000 miles, so you only have 1000 more miles and you've already spent $112 to get there, where as the comparable gasser has gotten there with roughly $60 worth of oil and filters.

Advantage Gas.

4. So lets take a look at the differences in cost, starting with the difference in purchase cost.

Gas: $2200/10000 miles, $18/3000 miles on oil change, $50 spark plugs/wires for 100k

Diesel: +$5000 original purchase cost, $1668.00/10000 miles, $56/5000 miles on oil change, $2500/set of injectors

Advantage Gas.

5. Resale. Diesels will usually bring $3000-$5000 more than gassers. Basically all you'll be getting out of it is the extra cost of the engine when it was new. It still won't make up the difference in cost of maintenance and wear and tear on the vehicle over all, because there is more to a truck than the engine. A well maintained gasser will still be kickin' at 200k, sometimes 300k depending on the degree of maintenance performed.

No clear winner, as all situations are different. It could go either way. A beat up 100k diesel can still go for less than a gasser in excellent shape with 200k.

6. Power. Diesels do have more torque, this has been the case for 10 years. However, the ratings still indicate that the V-10 (using Ford as the example here) is capable of pulling the same weights as the diesel, if not, still being within a thousand or so pounds of the diesel. F-350 with V-10 or diesel and 4.30 gears are both rated to 15k towing with tag-along trailers.

Advantage Diesel, but not by much.

7. Durability. Diesels have the reputation to run on and on and on. Some gassers can as well.

Again, no clear winner, because for every incredible diesel example, there will be an incredible gasser example.

For a good work truck, there is nothing wrong with a gas engine. As long as the owner takes good care of it, it will serve him well.

Keith
08-01-2005, 05:48 AM
Im lookin at f-250s. They say the V10 will get @ 15 mpg. The 5.4lt V8 @ 17 mpg any truth to that? Im leaning toward the 5.4 but the best deal I've found is on a V10. Im looking at 2000 thru 2003 year models, anyone have any experience with these models good or bad?


The best mine (V10) ever did on a tank was about 13.7 on the way back from NY. The tank that was the best was not all-interstate driving, but rather a good mix of rural road, a little drive through the Blue Ridge and the rest interstate. It typically gets 10-11 unloaded, around town. I rarely do any driving on the highway that is more than a couple miles at a time. With the trailer (about 4500lbs) it typically gets 8.8 to 9.3. Again, we are talking almost all in-town, stop and go driving.

It gets about 1mpg less towing than my old 95 F150. It gets about 3 less not towing. The trucks could not be more different. The 150 was a 2wd shortbed regular cab 302/5speed. I had to turn the air off to pick up some hp when towing :p The F350 is a 4wd crew cab with a V10/auto and 4.30 gears. The air is always on. It feels like you are towing the trailer, not the trailer towing you.

FrankenScagMachines
08-04-2005, 01:26 PM
Guys, keep up with the pissing match. It doesn't matter. If you want to pay $1 every 4 miles with a gasser, so be it. If you like to go 9 miles on $1, have plenty of power for anything you need to haul or tow, and an engine that lasts at least 300k miles or more (vs. a gasser usually at 200k if taken care of), and the ability to send your fuel money to all American sources (bio-diesel, all American crude oil, all American refineries, supports American farmers too), and the potential to help recycle old vegetable oil by using your own homegrown bio-diesel @ approximate real-life costs of 50-60 cents per gallon! Then you can drive 10 miles on 30-35 cents! Hah how's that? Yes this is really true and possible. I have not done it yet as I'm too busy to setup all the stuff but I have friends that do it. They get 20mpg in their Cummins driving to work and some romping on it involved, and fuel costs them 50 cents per gallon. They get the oil from fast food joints out of the fryers, these places are glad to get rid of it for free and there is a small cost involved in doing the refining and filtering but cheap cheap fuel.

With a Cummins 12 Valve engine like I have, you can get amazing power for free. I still can't beleive how much we got out of mine without any money. Its sweet.

My truck is a '94 12 valve, automatic overdrive, long bed reg. cab, 2wd, 3.55 gears, stock tire size (accurate odometer reading for accurate MPG figures).

I have a computer file on my laptop that i keep and update every time I get fuel. Its an Excel Spreadsheet that I would be happy to upload for everyone's viewing. It logs all of my fuel fill-ups, every drop of fuel that went into the truck, current fuel price, where I got the fuel, how many miles were on that tank (both odometer and trip odometer readings), and the resulting MPG figure. When I go on the highway on a small trip I get 20-21 mpg. When I'm driving around town its 90% with the trailer or else driving without trailer I end up romping it a bit, and get 13.5-14 doing all that. My trailer loaded weighs about 6k lbs, and there's hardly any highway miles mixed in with that. Plus it gets to sit and idle a good bit if i'm only leaving the truck less than 5 minutes it gets left running. If more than 5, i shut it off. Theres times it sits and idles 20 minutes or so occasionally (once every few tanks) just because circumstances let it do that...
With my gassers I shut them off everytime it gets put in park just about... even if i'm gonna only be a minute or two. The diesel uses hardly any at idle and i'm pretty fond of my air conditioning.

I used to have a 1990 F250 with a 351 5.8L fuel injected, with 5 spd stick, 2wd reg. cab long bed, 3.55 gears, stock tires. Got about 10 mpg driving around town and pulling a lightweight 6x12 trailer with one walk behind on it. When I put my leaf box on, it went down to 7 mpg because of all the wind resistance and additional weight.
My next truck was a '89 F350 2wd dually long wheelbase, 12' flatbed, 460 fuel injection, C6 automatic (no overdrive), 3.55 gears. It got 6.5 no matter what you did with it, how you drove it or anything.... I once got 8.9 on the highway at a steady 50mph and thought I'd won the lottery. Other times it only got 7 on the highway driving normally, loaded or not. It got the same fuel mileage no matter if i was pulling the small 12' trailer or the big heavy 22' trailer.

Oil change on my diesel was $30 using Fleetguard filter and Shell Rotella oil. I don't know where this stuff costs $50 but no one I know is buying it at that price thats for sure.

I got diesel the other day for $2.25. Reg. 87 gas has been between $2.09 and $2.29 lately.

Last year when I had my F350, my taxes were counting off 36 cents a mile. This year they're counting off 42 cents a mile. I have to write my trucks off using miles not costs, so I'm saving a lot of money this year, extra 6 cents a mile and extra 7 mpg, at a cost of 10 cents more a gallon average. I've had this truck since the beginning of March and put 11,400 miles on it already. I had the F350 11 months to the day and put 5,000 miles on it... You see, when I wasn't making money with it or using it for work of any kind, I was driving Mom's car or Dad's Jeep (I still live at home) becuase I couldn't afford 6.5 mpg just to drive around... It was a great truck and wish I still have it but wouldn't trade my Cummins for it no way. Now I can afford to drive my daily driver truck even to run errands or on road trips, that I couldn't do before.


Drive what you want, but I'm sticking with my Cummins.

PS. I can still smoke any gas truck, all of the PowerJokes I have lined up against including one with $2,000 of engine mods, (Duracraps are not common here yet) and any of the ricers around here. Even alot of low line muscle cars are no problem. Keep in mind, no mods that required more than a few bucks. I don't think I have more than $30 in modification costs. :cool2:
besides, the smoke is sweet :) I can lay THICK HUGE Clouds of smoke like a freight train for a whole city block easy....actually I think i've done it for a few blocks in a row LOL...

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a343/BushHogBoy/ASF_0009_0001.jpg

FrankenScagMachines
08-04-2005, 01:39 PM
Oh and whoever pays $2500 for a set of injectors is plum RAPED.. Its about $300 for 6 of them in a Cummins and for that price you can get 270 or even 300hp injectors.

2nd, I don't get cheap crappy oil and filter at Auto Zone. I don't step foot in that place. I hate it with a passion. I don't settle for less than Valvoline oil and Wix filters in my gassers (which I drive very little anymore) and Fleetguard filters and Shell Rotella oil in my diesel which is what EVERYONE says to put in them. I don't know for sure but i'm pretty positive Auto Zone doesn't even have a clue what Fleetguard is or where to get them... and I am POSITIVE they don't sell Fleetguard and pretty sure they don't have Rotella. I don't know who pays $20 for a oil filter for a diesel. Must be a PowerJoke thing....

I changed my oil (3 gallons in a Cummins, which is 12 qts), oil filter and fuel filter all for $39.00.

If I were buying a new truck I may consider a gasser depending on what I was doing with it. Newer gassers can get better fuel mileage than my old ones. New diesels don't get a bit better fuel mileage than older ones. I can't afford a new truck. But I could afford a used diesel. I got my Cummins for $5000. I figure it would have cost $2 more if it was a 4x4, and $1000 more if it had a nicer body on it (this one has scratches and couple small dents but I don't care). I figured the body is just for looks and it looks OK to me, its a work truck so it will get more scratches and dents anyhow. Plus I would never put it in 4x4 unless it was in snow and I already had a 4x4 plowtruck to drive in winter, so the way I see it I can save the money for something I won't use, plus 4x4 front ends wear quicker and cost more. I'm fine with 2wd. If it were a gasser sure it would have been $1000 less for the same thing, but I am positive I'm saving much more than that already, not counting all the fuel i will save in the future. Its not uncommon for me to put 50-75-even 100 miles a day on my truck. Between work, errands, running estimates, and personal use, the miles rack up fast. I drive it everywhere.

But hey keep driving your 460 if it makes you feel good to get near single digit fuel "economy"... haha... you'll figure it out one day as I did, remember I used to drive a 460... I got smart. Its ok, you'll catch up one day.

Smalltimer1
08-04-2005, 04:08 PM
Oil change on my diesel was $30 using Fleetguard filter and Shell Rotella oil. I don't know where this stuff costs $50 but no one I know is buying it at that price thats for sure.

I don't know where any one gets it that cheap either. Must be low grade??

I got diesel the other day for $2.25. Reg. 87 gas has been between $2.09 and $2.29 lately.

Diesel here is floating around $2.50/gal. Gas is $2.17-2.25. Just an anecdote to your mpg, my pop's '83 Chevy 20 with 6.2 diesel gets 23 best on the interstate.

PS. I can still smoke any gas truck, all of the Power Strokes I have lined up against including one with $2,000 of engine mods,

You probably 'lined up' with an IDI 7.3 thinking it was a Power Stroke. Since all 3 Ford diesels were available at the same time in '94 and early '95 in the same body, Early Power Strokes can easily be confused with 7.3L IDI and 7.3L IDIT's. Also your truck having 3.55's as well as being a 4x2 regular cab has a weight advantage over say a crew cab longbed 4x4. You'd have a better top end with the but sluggish acceleration with the 3.55's. Apples to apples not apples to oranges.

Watch this video. A '84 F-250 with a dinosaur 6.9L IDI comes out and shows the new guys just what an old Ford diesel can do. Bone stock with a turned up IP.
http://www.diesel-central.com/Video/Movies/Shasta_4-23-05/Anderson_Pull_4-23-05.wmv

Those Cummins that put the amazing times at the track are running propane as well as water injection, along with about $5000 in transmission add-ons and mods to keep from frying it. Add to that they probably only have a couple gallons of fuel in the tank to reduce weight.

I bet with those injectors you're having one heck of a time with oil dilution. You should have a Blackstone test run on your engine to see how much you have in the oil.

I'm actually going to pick up an '04 F-250 XL 4x2 6.0L Power Stroke/TS w/3.73's either tomorrow or Monday, depending on when I can run to CarMax to sell my truck and get back to the dealer for the '04. I am doing more commuting in and out of Raleigh now, and it's 20 mpg is very appealing to me. I test drove it for a weekend and drove it 300 miles on a 1/2 tank which equates to 20mpg.

Smalltimer1
08-04-2005, 04:28 PM
For the most part though, the only real advantage to a diesel is if you're gonna be racking up the miles in a hurry.

For example: I will be going in and out of Raleigh about every other day from next week through May 11, 2006. That is 65 miles each day I go in and out. Then when I am on break I will be working around here with my tractor for breaking gardens and plowing them up and then culitivating them when necessary.

Add to that the shows in NC, VA, and SC I am taking my tractors to next summer and you'll get another few thousand.

So I'll be accumulating miles in a hurry as well, therefore justifying the diesel.

If I was not in college, I would have no need for a diesel because I would still be at home and not be doing much long distance commuting or driving and the tasks I'd have around here would be fine for the 460, basically, I'd be keeping it if I wasn't on the road so much. It's been a good truck to me, but it is simply too long for a college parking lot and it doesn't get along well with stoplight to stoplight driving.

FrankenScagMachines
08-04-2005, 06:08 PM
I'm losing patience with you Smalltimer.....

You think I don't know my Fords? I know the which engines are which and I know what years and body styles they came in. I'm not stupid. I lined up with a '02 7.3 PS... My 3.55 gears are faster take off too because with a Cummins your torque is down low, not like the GM and Ford diesels that act more like a gasser than a true diesel... I can smoke any diesel with 4.10's off the line, even another Cummins... I've lined up with many other Fords with 7.3 PowerJokes, 6.0 PowerJunks, etc... Never lined up with an IDI, there are only a few around here... without a turbo they don't stand a chance anyway. I once drove a '92 IDI 5 spd, they don't stand a chance...

I know what they do to the hot Cummins... I'm telling you that I did none of that to mine and it still smokes most of the vehicles on the roads in my town except a high power muscle car or sports car. It will smoke a Mitsibishi 3000GT of my friends.

No oil dilution issues. Speak not of what you do not know, and quit insulting me and my knowledge. This does not go well with me and your reputation is greatly diminished in my mind.

Why the heck are you buying a diesel? They COST TOO MUCH TO DRIVE!!! DUH STUPID!!!!!!! YOU MUST BE AN IDIOT TO WANT TO BUY A DIESEL! ARE YOU KIDDING ME? YOU'LL SPEND WAY TOO MUCH ON MAINTENANCE AND REPAIRS AND IT COST TOO MUCH TO BUY ANYWAY!!!!

Thats it, I'm adding you to my very small ignore list... I'm sorry but I really don't like your attitude, ignorance, and general lack of respect that you show in your posts. You assume a lot, smart off a lot, post so called "facts" that you know nothing about, tell me I know nothing of which I speak when in fact I know much more about it than anyone else here (as to what I have raced). You argue one side till your blue then you switch and say "Oh by the way, tomorrow i'm going to buy a PowerJoke which I have argued against in countless posts"..... what a nut. Goodbye. Good luck to you and I hope you get your life straightened out one day. We don't have to agree on everything but I think it would be a lot better if everyone showed at least a little respect toward each other and did not criticize what they do not know. Please consider what you type before you click "Submit Reply"... I would hate for you to burn other bridges in life.

Just my 2 cents, and again, welcome to my ignore list.

Smalltimer1
08-04-2005, 07:03 PM
I'm losing patience with you Smalltimer.....

You think I don't know my Fords? I know the which engines are which and I know what years and body styles they came in. I'm not stupid. I lined up with a '02 7.3 PS... My 3.55 gears are faster take off too because with a Cummins your torque is down low, not like the GM and Ford diesels that act more like a gasser than a true diesel... I can smoke any diesel with 4.10's off the line, even another Cummins... I've lined up with many other Fords with 7.3 PowerJokes, 6.0 PowerJunks, etc...

Maybe if you respected the other diesels a little more I could respect you more. The Cummins is not the end all of diesels, there's more out there than them.

No oil dilution issues. Speak not of what you do not know, and quit insulting me and my knowledge. This does not go well with me and your reputation is greatly diminished in my mind.

Glad to hear your motor is doing good.

I do speak of what I know though, after all I am in engineering to design these things. I don't talk about what I don't know. What I have mentioned is what has been seen often, what has been done to correct those issues, and what doesn't have to be done.

I'm sorry you have such a short fuse on your temper.

Why the heck are you buying a diesel? They COST TOO MUCH TO DRIVE!!! DUH STUPID!!!!!!! YOU MUST BE AN IDIOT TO WANT TO BUY A DIESEL! ARE YOU KIDDING ME? YOU'LL SPEND WAY TOO MUCH ON MAINTENANCE AND REPAIRS AND IT COST TOO MUCH TO BUY ANYWAY!!!!

I never said that they were too much.....I only said it depends on the situation. A diesel is not right for everyone. Some need them, some don't.

Thats it, I'm adding you to my very small ignore list... I'm sorry but I really don't like your attitude, ignorance, and general lack of respect that you show in your posts. You assume a lot, smart off a lot, post so called "facts" that you know nothing about, tell me I know nothing of which I speak when in fact I know much more about it than anyone else here (as to what I have raced).

First off, I am by no means above anyone here. I'm sorry you see me as that way. Second I am in school for this stuff, if I was ignorant, I wouldn't be saying anything. I mean I am not paying $15k/yr. to go to an engineering school for nothing. I give everyone the respect that they give me. Bashing other brands does not earn you respect. Yes I know I do not like some things around and about, but I don't go around making up stupid ignorant names for them. Power Joke??? Come on man, grow up. There's over 2 million of these out on the road, which is fact. I don't assume, that's what your post is doing right now. My facts that I provide are proven, I could come up with all the sources you want, but some people are so stubborn they won't acknowledge them.

I'm glad you endanger the lives of others by racing in the streets (there has been no proof that you've raced elsewhere--just stating facts). Take it where it belongs--to the track (and I'm sure others here will chime in here as well, especially the ones with children).

You argue one side till your blue then you switch and say "Oh by the way, tomorrow i'm going to buy a PowerJoke which I have argued against in countless posts"..... what a nut. Goodbye. Good luck to you and I hope you get your life straightened out one day. We don't have to agree on everything but I think it would be a lot better if everyone showed at least a little respect toward each other and did not criticize what they do not know. Please consider what you type before you click "Submit Reply"... I would hate for you to burn other bridges in life.

I never argued against a diesel, I was only bringing some practical calculations to say that the diesel is great in some areas, but also not so great in others. Gas and Diesel have their good and bad sides. I was pointing out that to someone who doesn't have the need to move a lot of heavy equipment, a diesel may not be practical. Think about all those soccer moms who buy a diesel to go get groceries in?? Does that make any sense? NO. Those trucks never see anything off the pavement.

In my situation I will be putting roughly 1-2000 miles on my truck a month. On the weekends when I am out of school or on break, I will be doing my work around here, helping out around the farm, and going to shows. I need something that will get good mileage going to these places as none are close together or close by. That is my justification for a diesel. Like I stated earlier, if I was not in school I'd be keeping my gas truck, but I know the diesel will pay off in the long run for me.

Again I'm sorry you have such a short temper. Also please hold yourself back from personal attacks, I have my life right with the Man above, that's all I need to concern myself with.

I try to remain open minded but get shot down by hot shots like you who think they have something to prove. I feel sorry for people like you as you will never be satisfied in life. There is more to life than a pickup truck or mower.

DLCS
08-04-2005, 07:40 PM
Smalltimer1,

I agree with you on all points. Whatever Eric buys is the best, no way you are going to win that arguement with him. I wouldn't get too ruffeled up over this with him, not worth it.