How can this be? Hunter solenoid.

[jcom]

Zone runs perfectly when opening with solenoid. No good off timer. With new solenoid, all is well. New and old solenoid all show 17 ohms with meter. How can this happen? Making me crazy!!!! 24V at manifold

[bicmudpuppy]

Zone runs perfectly when opening with solenoid. No good off timer. With new solenoid, all is well. New and old solenoid all show 17 ohms with meter. How can this happen? Making me crazy!!!! 24V at manifold
I can think of a number of possible reasons and I am sure there is a reason your old solenoid is bad. Just because the coil is good doesn't mean the whole device is good. A bad spring, trash, a voltage spike that magnetized the coil, and the list goes on. They are mechanical devices and as such will fail. The coil is only part of the device (it is also the part we see fail most often). This was much easier to explain back when you actually changed the coil out and the plunger and post were a seperate part of the valve. Anybody else ever play with the old 36V RB solenoids? I remember upgrading to 24V. We had buckner mechanicals, and you had to install a seperate transformer for the solenoids, but you had to keep the 36V transformer for the clock mechanism. We changed out one full controller at a time and kept the "good" 36V solenoids for repairs on the systems we hadn't upgraded yet. Ahh the good old days of in house maint. at the country club.

[jcom]

Thanks for the info, WB.

I thought the solenoids were good as long as the coil would read the right ohms. The old solenoid will only pull it part way open apparently and for whatever reason. I believe they have another one doing the same thing on
a different zone as I could hear the flow different on one of the valves as I cycled through the controller. Hmmm!

This is the partner property that I changed out a solenoid on two weeks ago. They have had three other of these solenoids replaced since the installation last autumn. All Hunter SRV valves and Hunter controllers.

John ;)

[Wet_Boots]

If this is that system with the undersized wire, you might take an ohms reading of the wire itself. Also, some, but not all, multimeters have AC current settings, which would allow you to see what a particular solenoid is drawing, in the system itself, by connecting the meter between the controller and the zone wire. An intermittent solenoid problem would take a while to show up, once it receives voltage, and warms up.

A straight voltage reading, even in the valve box (unless the solenoid is connected) won't tell you everything, because the meter doesn't draw any current to speak of, so it doesn't duplicate field conditions.

If you do see some resistance in the cable, and there is a spare conductor(s), connect the spare(s) in parallel to the common wire.

[bicmudpuppy]

Thanks for the info, WB.

I thought the solenoids were good as long as the coil would read the right ohms. The old solenoid will only pull it part way open apparently and for whatever reason. I believe they have another one doing the same thing on
a different zone as I could hear the flow different on one of the valves as I cycled through the controller. Hmmm!

This is the partner property that I changed out a solenoid on two weeks ago. They have had three other of these solenoids replaced since the installation last autumn. All Hunter SRV valves and Hunter controllers.

John ;)

Curious now, are the solenoid wires red or black? Right before they switched to red wires, we had a LOT of solenoid issues.

[jcom]

YES, THESE ARE THE PROPERTIES WITH THE SMALL WIRE. I WILL DO SOME MORE CHECKING. IF I NEED A DIFFERENT METER TO CHECK CURRENT DRAW, IT WILL BE IN MY TOOLBOX BEFORE DAYS END! I BELIEVE THERE ARE EXTRA CONDUCTORS SO WILL DO SOME MORE RESEARCH.

THE SOLENOID WIRES ARE RED.

THANKS FOR ALL THE HELP, GUYS.

JOHN :rolleyes:

[Wet_Boots]

I haven't had to check AC current in years, since most of the troubled solenoids I switch out are obvious duds, but when I ran into a solenoid that wouldn't short out while I was looking (on an old electromechanical controller) I was able to find the one bad one by checking current draw. A lot of solid-state controllers have some functions to tell you about electrical problems.

[betterlawn]

If the problem is that it isn't shutting its not electrical at all. If this one works the way I'm thinking it does, than its a spring or plugged pilot port or something (like the first reply said I believe).

[jcom]

I ASSUME THESE SOLENOIDS ARE NOT ABLE TO BE DISSECTED AND REPAIRED.

I TOOK THE ZONE WIRE AND COMMON TOGETHER AND HAD ZERO RESISTANCE ON THE 1K SCALE. NO CURRENT READING YET! :rolleyes:

JOHN

[Wet_Boots]

You could never repair a solenoid coil. It either worked or didn't. (Or it worked intermittently and drove you nuts) - Very old solenoids could have the coil as a removable assembly. I think Superior brass valves, and some high-end Buckner brass valves still have them. If 1K ohms is the lowest range on that multimeter, keep an eye open for another one, with a lower range. (although some digital multimeters might be good enough at the 1K range)

[jcom]

My meter has a X10 also but the reading was still 0. (all the way to the right)

Am I missing something here? Or are the internal guts just ceasing to operate as designed.

Thanks again,

John

[Wet_Boots]

Here's a Hardie/Richdel solenoid that electrically tests as perfect, but it can't operate the valve. The left hand arrow points at a bulge in the top of the (formerly flat) solenoid tube. Water got into an air space that it was never supposed to be able to reach. It froze, and pushed out the top, and pushed down the pressed-in magnetic core. The solenoid plunger (right arrow) no longer had any space to lift up into, and the valve stayed off. I can't say it's Irritrol/Toro's fault, since they bought the company later.

[DanaMac]

Yup, found many of those WetBoots. It will read properly but won't operate.

I rarely use the multimeter (except today - stupid frigging junk job!!!). Rarely are there remote or satellite manifolds so the wire runs tend to be short and if I can just detect a problem with the solenoid I just swap one out real quick instead of checking to see if it is faulty and then swapping it out. I can usually tell if it is a solenoid problem and not need to test it.

[Wet_Boots]

The odd thing about the freeze-damaged solenoids is that it was only on anti-syphon valves that the solenoids failed. Plenty of cold temps underground, but no failures. And just now, that brings the idea that it was in the heat of summer, maybe, that the water got into the 'sealed' airspace.

There are a number of sprinkler design goofs made in Sunny California, that only showed up later in the colder climates, as water froze in places it was never supposed to be.

[jcom]

I was really beginning to feel like a total electrical incompetent when numbers did not add up.

Thank you all for the assist in self preservation!!!! :rolleyes:

John