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Holistic Landscapes
08-03-2005, 04:12 PM
OK. I set the settings to 2 numbers less than the recommended setting from lesco. I applied on a fairly hot day but not really. Around 81. I"m getting a whole lot of burn even on lawns that have satisfactory sprikler systems. Why am I getting this? It seems that everytime I use a fertilizer product I get burn. The only one I never had any burn with was the bridge product with natural turkey manure pellets in it. Whats the trick for fertilizing in hot temps? Rye fescue and blue grass

Ric
08-03-2005, 06:08 PM
OK. I set the settings to 2 numbers less than the recommended setting from lesco. I applied on a fairly hot day but not really. Around 81. I"m getting a whole lot of burn even on lawns that have satisfactory sprikler systems. Why am I getting this? It seems that everytime I use a fertilizer product I get burn. The only one I never had any burn with was the bridge product with natural turkey manure pellets in it. Whats the trick for fertilizing in hot temps? Rye fescue and blue grass


Might be calibration. are you sure you are not putting on to much.

Green Dreams
08-03-2005, 06:46 PM
Not to be a flamer but that can't be anything else but misapplication. You can probably still see it when you dig down into a burnt spot.

Duramax99
08-03-2005, 06:48 PM
What kind of spreader are you using??? How many lbs. per acre are you using??

Holistic Landscapes
08-03-2005, 07:03 PM
I have a lesco commercial plus spreader... Yea when you dig down in the burn you can see the fert granuel.... I dunno... It says keep setting at 17 but I put it to 15. did my regular swipe back and forth mabye overlapping slightly because the spreader does spread very far and even. What do you think? I even watered in the application after applying just to make sure that the salt wouldn't stay dry on the lawn. I"m confused... and need help with this one. Its defenatly fert burn... :help:

arborist-28
08-03-2005, 07:05 PM
As a precaution I see all fertilizers as capable of burn lawngrasses if improperly applied. Never exceed the recommended rate, or the lawn may be damaged. Always apply fertilizers when temperatures are cool and the grass leaves are dry and water thoroughly after application.

have you calibrated your fertilizer spreader lately ? that would be something I would check first.. when I apply fert it is usually early in the morning after the dew dries or late in the evening..I always check the weather forcasts and pick the coolest day possible..also as soon as I'm done I water it in as best I can...c

quiet
08-03-2005, 09:18 PM
81 degrees is not too hot by any means. Spreader calibration is very important, but you should also have an idea how much you should be putting down before you start.

50 lb bag of 18-0-18 . . .
OK, that's 9 lbs of N in the bag . . .
Applying at 1 lb/MSF . . .
Doing a 9,000 sf lawn . . .

Should take you exactly one bag to do the whole lawn.

If you're coming up with numbers that jive like that, check other factors

Forever Green Lawn
08-03-2005, 09:56 PM
Where is the burn at? Through the lawn or at the end of your passes? You may be leaving the spreader open for a second after you stop and when you turn you are over applying... just a thought, I've seen it happen a few times over the years.

tocs93
08-03-2005, 10:24 PM
It is impossible to to apply fert to all customers when the temp. is cool, lawn dry, and watered in right away. That is ridiculous! If you are using a product that has 50% PPSCU and you are burning lawns, then there is some other factor causing the burn that you aren't telling us! I've seen guys spray lawns above 81 degrees and they don't burn!

Decali
08-03-2005, 11:28 PM
I don't think it's the temperature giving you problems or even the nitrogen for that matter. One of the two forms of potassium can be kind of hot though and that's a pretty heavy dose.

Definately check your calibration but if that is on the money, call
and find out about the potassium issue and adjust down that component if necessary.

Grassmechanic
08-04-2005, 11:08 AM
I don't think it's the temperature giving you problems or even the nitrogen for that matter. One of the two forms of potassium can be kind of hot though and that's a pretty heavy dose.
Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner. You are applying too much potash at this time of the year, and it is probably MOP!

lilmarvin4064
08-04-2005, 11:28 AM
Most fertilizers including Lesco's give you rates, settings and recommendations based on 1 lb. of N per 1000 sq. ft. (or P for starter ferts, or K for high K ferts). This is O.K. for spring and fall but not for the summer. I usually never apply more than 1/2 to 3/4 of a lb. of N/1000 per application in the summer and would recommend you do the same. I would also never use less than a 50% slow-release N fert' in the summer unless there has been plenty of rain recently and I used lower rates.

Lesco's 18-0-18 is 50% SOP and 50% MOP.

Holistic Landscapes
08-04-2005, 01:51 PM
I just bought the spreader from Lesco this year... only used it a couple of times so far.... WHen you guy's bought your spreader brand new was the calaberation correct? I have a buddy that can help me with the calaberation "I can't spell" lol........ Question for the POTASH.... Isn't potash THE SECOND NUMBER? POTASSIUM IS THE THRID CORRECT? How can I be applying to much POTASH if there is NONE IN THE MIX? What else can be causing this burn? Its defenatly fert burn no doubt about it! I even applied MSMA "ACCLAIM" just to see if it would burn as bad as the fertilizer.... IT DIDN"T BURN REALLY AT ALL! The fertilizer burn happend within a day! Once I applied it burned within 24 hours. I purposly bought 18-0-18 because it is a slow release fertilizer and sulfur coated. I guess you can't really listen to the BAG RIGHT? I'm very into my lawn care business and want superior results, cause my competition is minimal! There are many landscapers around but only a few have good lawns. There is much opportunity for me....
I don't know how to take others quotes and post them before I chat yet, so I"M gona go back to the guy who said about stopping at the edge.... THE BURN IN THROUGHOUT THE LAWN NOT JUST ON THE EDGES! EVEN ON AN EVEN PASS ON SETTING 15 or 16 I AM STILL GETTING BURN! I even took a handfull and just lightly tossed it and spread it by hand on my own lawn and saw burn within 6 hours? Any info would be appreciated... this might be an issue for Most OF US AMATURE LAWN SPECIALISTS! I can answer more questions than most lawn cutters and perform specialized applications and diagnose many lawn problems and disease! I"m soooooo fustrated!
During the spring and early summer my LAWNS LOOKED ABSOLUTLY SPECTACULAR! LUSH GROWTH AND BEAUTIFUL TEXTURE! I am dealing with COOL SEASON LAWNS... and ITS 90 degrees out... what technique or how should I look at COOL SEASON GRASSES IN THE SUMMER? ya know? I"m trying to explain my self but its hard threw this computer... LIke is it a whole new ball game when the temp goes above 85? Or for that matter 75? I'm truely fine tuning my technique thanks to the sponsors of this site and to all that have replied to my threads... THANKS SO MUCH AGAIN! JASON

ProLawns
08-04-2005, 04:55 PM
The second number is phosphorous, the third number is potassium. Most of my fescue lawns are looking like crap this time of year also.

Ric
08-04-2005, 05:15 PM
I just bought the spreader from Lesco this year... only used it a couple of times so far.... WHen you guy's bought your spreader brand new was the calaberation correct? I have a buddy that can help me with the calaberation "I can't spell" lol........ Question for the POTASH.... Isn't potash THE SECOND NUMBER? POTASSIUM IS THE THRID CORRECT? How can I be applying to much POTASH if there is NONE IN THE MIX? What else can be causing this burn? Its defenatly fert burn no doubt about it! I even applied MSMA "ACCLAIM" just to see if it would burn as bad as the fertilizer.... IT DIDN"T BURN REALLY AT ALL! The fertilizer burn happend within a day! Once I applied it burned within 24 hours. I purposly bought 18-0-18 because it is a slow release fertilizer and sulfur coated. I guess you can't really listen to the BAG RIGHT? I'm very into my lawn care business and want superior results, cause my competition is minimal! There are many landscapers around but only a few have good lawns. There is much opportunity for me....
I don't know how to take others quotes and post them before I chat yet, so I"M gona go back to the guy who said about stopping at the edge.... THE BURN IN THROUGHOUT THE LAWN NOT JUST ON THE EDGES! EVEN ON AN EVEN PASS ON SETTING 15 or 16 I AM STILL GETTING BURN! I even took a handfull and just lightly tossed it and spread it by hand on my own lawn and saw burn within 6 hours? Any info would be appreciated... this might be an issue for Most OF US AMATURE LAWN SPECIALISTS! I can answer more questions than most lawn cutters and perform specialized applications and diagnose many lawn problems and disease! I"m soooooo fustrated!
During the spring and early summer my LAWNS LOOKED ABSOLUTLY SPECTACULAR! LUSH GROWTH AND BEAUTIFUL TEXTURE! I am dealing with COOL SEASON LAWNS... and ITS 90 degrees out... what technique or how should I look at COOL SEASON GRASSES IN THE SUMMER? ya know? I"m trying to explain my self but its hard threw this computer... LIke is it a whole new ball game when the temp goes above 85? Or for that matter 75? I'm truely fine tuning my technique thanks to the sponsors of this site and to all that have replied to my threads... THANKS SO MUCH AGAIN! JASON


Jason

The top three numbers on the bag are N-P-K. Nitrogen-Phosphate-Potassium. Potash and Potassium are the same element.

SOP is Sulfate of Potash

MOP is Muriate of Potash and has a high chlorine content which has a high burn value.

Each of the Elements of fertilizer comes in different compounds. I am not going to write a book here on this thread to explain Fertilizer and all it's chemistry.

Calibration is a very tricky thing and just because your spreader is new it doesn't mean it is calibrated. In fact take the same spreader and two different applicator. Their calibration will be different do to the speed they push it.

Decali
08-04-2005, 07:31 PM
... Whats the trick for fertilizing in hot temps? Rye fescue and blue grass

90% of what I deal with is warm season grass so I don't claim to be an expert on cool season varieties but...in this area we don't put ANY fertilizer down this time of year on cool season grass regardless of the analysis.

I noticed that you're from Long Beach. I spent the first 30 years of my life in S. California. If that's Long Beach, CA then I would suggest that you adjust your applications to avoid mid summer fertilizer and put most of it down in fall with a little more in early spring.

Regardless of what part of the country you're in, find out from the local extension office or other sources how much fertilizer is needed in your area and when is is best to apply.

Green Dreams
08-04-2005, 10:41 PM
Where is the burn at? Through the lawn or at the end of your passes? You may be leaving the spreader open for a second after you stop and when you turn you are over applying... just a thought, I've seen it happen a few times over the years.


Heres your winner...I did this on my first day out in the 1980s on a couple of yards. I wish that was all I screwed up...lol?.

lawnboy33
08-04-2005, 10:49 PM
You have no business treating lawns if you have to ask stupid questions like these. Stick with mowing! GUYS LIKE YOU DRIVE ME NUTS! Just because you can push a spreader doesn't mean you should be doing it!!! Work for a lco and learn all about it Then do it yourself! Read the label , follow directions! It's all common sense..... "whats the middle number?" LOL!!! Some of you don't have a clue about lawn care???

Ric
08-05-2005, 12:01 AM
You have no business treating lawns if you have to ask stupid questions like these. Stick with mowing! GUYS LIKE YOU DRIVE ME NUTS! Just because you can push a spreader doesn't mean you should be doing it!!! Work for a lco and learn all about it Then do it yourself! Read the label , follow directions! It's all common sense..... "whats the middle number?" LOL!!! Some of you don't have a clue about lawn care???


Lawnboy

I couldn't agree with you more, now that I have been in business a number of years. But what you have got to realize is the type of people that go into lawn care, my self included. They are the type of people who either can't or don't want to work for others. Therefore they charge head first into something they are ill equipped to do. Most start out doing everything under the table and never seek an education on the subject. The smart one end up going to seminar at least and some even end up getting degrees in Horticulture as I did. But my first education is the thanks of a 7-11 clerk who talked me into taking classes at the local Voc Tec. I still don't know her name and have never thanked her enough for getting me started. But the bottom line is I was in the last class in Horticulture for my local Voc-Tec to have. They closed that program(which BTW was excellent) for reasons of not enough interest. I ended up traveling many mile across the state each night to attend college class for many years.

Most of the guys in lawn care only want to know WHAT to put down and not WHY or HOW. It is just to easy to go to a supplier and follow his sales pitch. Doesn't Matter whether they know WHY. Paying the high price for being told WHAT to put down never enters their mind that they be spending a lot more of their hard earned money than necessary.

ant
08-05-2005, 05:44 AM
Lawnboy, ric and the rest : great replys.......

Holistic Landscapes: can you take some pictuers ?

ant

Grandview
08-05-2005, 07:27 AM
Once a month I apply 120/acre 19-19-19 to a commercial account that has very low P and K levels. The fetilizer is ag grade, Urea, MAP, and MOP. I never have a problem burning. One spring I applied 250 pounds Urea, 60 pounds 11-52-0, and 100 pounds 0-0-62, all per acre to ball field that was seeded the fall before.
No burn, just a nice lawn all summer. It was not watered either. Based on my training and expereince I do not believe the fertilizer, nitrogen or MOP is burning the lawn, If its being applied correctly. I would apply 18-0-18 at 4-5X recommended rate and not expect any burn, even if the temp was 90. The only time I burn a lawn is if I spill.

Ric
08-05-2005, 09:51 AM
Once a month I apply 120/acre 19-19-19 to a commercial account that has very low P and K levels. The fetilizer is ag grade, Urea, MAP, and MOP. I never have a problem burning. One spring I applied 250 pounds Urea, 60 pounds 11-52-0, and 100 pounds 0-0-62, all per acre to ball field that was seeded the fall before.
No burn, just a nice lawn all summer. It was not watered either. Based on my training and expereince I do not believe the fertilizer, nitrogen or MOP is burning the lawn, If its being applied correctly. I would apply 18-0-18 at 4-5X recommended rate and not expect any burn, even if the temp was 90. The only time I burn a lawn is if I spill.


Grandview

My first post to this thread

Might be calibration. are you sure you are not putting on to much.

Holistic

you can not expect a new spreader to be calibrated. In fact that should be the first thing you do to a new spreader. Also be aware that even new spreaders must be adjusted to get the best broadcast pattern. A spreader can and will throw heavy to one side or another. Without proper adjustment you can and will stripe. Lesco spreaders are good, but by far not the best when it comes to an even pattern of broad cast.

Holistic Landscapes
08-05-2005, 04:32 PM
Yea... I"m gona have to get it calibrated. And as for LAWNBOY, yo if any of that **** you were talking before was directed at any amature trying to perfect a skill, art, and business by asking questions....... THEN I GUESS WERE JUST NOT AS SMART OR AS BIG OF A LAWN PROFESSOR AS YOU DUDE! "GIVE YOURSELF SOME APPLAUSE"...... Second.... I never asked what the MIDDLE NUMBER OF THE FERTILIZER BAG WAS ******* I"ve been in the lawn business for 4 years, and worked for all the major companies out there in my area before I decided to try it on my own....
There's a difference between somebody who just wants to know "WHAT" to do, and somebody who wants to know "WHY"

SHOWCASE LAWNS LLC
08-05-2005, 04:54 PM
There Are No Stupid Questions In This Game......there Are Only People Too Stupid / Lazy /arrogant Or Ignorant To Ask Them. We All Have Been In One Of These Stages At One Point Or Another So Why So Hostile ? Even The Best Of Us Get A Wake Up Call Or An Oops Occasionally. Never Ever Stop Asking If Theres A Better Way To Do Something ...........just When You Do And You Start Feeling Smug Thats When The Competition Usually Steps Up And Shows The Master A Few New Tricks.

Ric
08-05-2005, 05:17 PM
Yea... I"m gona have to get it calibrated. And as for LAWNBOY, yo if any of that **** you were talking before was directed at any amature trying to perfect a skill, art, and business by asking questions....... THEN I GUESS WERE JUST NOT AS SMART OR AS BIG OF A LAWN PROFESSOR AS YOU DUDE! "GIVE YOURSELF SOME APPLAUSE"...... Second.... I never asked what the MIDDLE NUMBER OF THE FERTILIZER BAG WAS ******* I"ve been in the lawn business for 4 years, and worked for all the major companies out there in my area before I decided to try it on my own....
There's a difference between somebody who just wants to know "WHAT" to do, and somebody who wants to know "WHY"


Holistic

1st I guess I need to tell you Calibration is something you do yourself. You will need some help since it is obvious you don't understand it. You might want to do a search here and look for thread posted by Groundskper he did a good job of explaining Calibration of a spreader.

2nd I am going to defend Lawnboy because I agree with what he said but tried to soften his statements. Working in the industry with your back and learning the industry are two different things. Kind of like digging a ditch. You might be able to use a shovel, but that doesn't mean you are a civil engineer who can design the drainage system that ditch is for. After 4 years in the industry you should know the difference or similarity between Potassium and Potash. I think at this time you may be in over your head and need to learn more about the industry before moving into area like fertilization. Now you can cuss me also, but it won't help you gain the knowledge horticulture and agronomy. Agronomy is the oldest science known to man and the one that he has yet to master. Agronomy is in fact a very complex science with many variables that makes repetition of experiment very difficult. Why you burned the lawn is only a guess on our part. First I am not sure you are able to diagnose and understand exactly what has happen, therefore you can't relay the proper information to those who might be able to help you. I am not trying to bad mouth you so much as bring you to a point of understanding. You need to read this forum more and try and find some classes or seminars for beginner in your area. There is no shame in being a beginner, but there is in stay closed minded and uneducated in your given field.

Holistic Landscapes
08-05-2005, 09:24 PM
Interesting Ric..... Well the only way you get better is to ask questions.... I just always went with the name Potassium, not potash... Guess I just earned more points.... I have had much success in maintaining nice lawns, beginner, yea I guess, but if I have to ask a quesiton when its 93 degree's, the lawns are properly irrigated, regular fert program, and there is burn, I thank this site for being hear so I can ask my questions!

Ric
08-05-2005, 09:41 PM
Interesting Ric..... Well the only way you get better is to ask questions.... I just always went with the name Potassium, not potash... Guess I just earned more points.... I have had much success in maintaining nice lawns, beginner, yea I guess, but if I have to ask a quesiton when its 93 degree's, the lawns are properly irrigated, regular fert program, and there is burn, I thank this site for being hear so I can ask my questions!


Holistic

Please under stand that as an older member I have answered the same questions umteen times. This is one of the reasons Older member move on and that is unfortunate for the newbies. But My point is as an older member, even when I try and be nice it comes out a little testie about the umteened time. Keep asking question, I DO. But don't take any replies personally.

green with envy
08-05-2005, 09:58 PM
Holistic, please don't take this the wrong way but according to your profile you are only 25 and only two years in business.

When I was young and shortly out of school I too thought I was going to tackle the world and new all of the up to date knowledge there was to know.

Now that I am 45 and have over 20 years in the business I realize that I am no where close to calling myself an expert. Sure I know more than a lot of people but I will rue the day that I come across a customer that knows more than me! That's why I check out this site every day and you can ask my wife that I read EVERY article that comes out about our profession.
I do believe that continued education will become more and more important in our industry.; Especially with all of the disinformation that is going out.
Trust me I am not saying that you do not know what you are talking about but!!!! the people with years of experience have been there and done that!


I hope you take this in the way it's intended.

Mike

lawnboy33
08-06-2005, 12:23 AM
Wow well You won't learn much on here for one thing!!! Hands on training. There is so much you should know before even attempting to do chemical applications. It's a science even know Chem lawn can higher any man off the street and have them doing lawns in a week doesn't mean everyone else can. That why they have a low customer retention. Lack of experienced techs on the lawn. You should study the different types of fertilizer , fungicides, post and pre emergents and non and selective herbicides. Learn all you can . Then learn how to push a spreader correctly. How to edge sidewalks without burning them, propper calibration, overlapping your patterns just perfect adapting to certain wind speeds. There is so much to know about the turf management. I imagine that being a sulfer coated fert you are putting way too much down. What's the Sq Ft of the lawn. How many pounds did you use. What was the temp? You should know all of these things before risking you license on someones lawn. I still say stick with mowing. Its not a science and a 12 yr old can do it. I would be happy to help you withany questions you may have but stay off of the lawns until you know what you are doing!!!! Practice on your own lawn because people are sue happy! don't forget that! Am I an expert? no not yet but pretty close!!

Holistic Landscapes
08-06-2005, 10:01 PM
Honestly.... They should really make a forum for newbies :).... There really is a lot to learn from in the field of lawn care... I always thought that if I can grow amazing tomatoes or care for a landcape or garden with ease.... then I thought the same for lawn care.... EVERY COMPANY I WORKED FOR.... SCOTTS...... LAWN MASTER..... LAWN CHEM....... I was gona work for TruGreen Chem lawn but choose not to.... But for the other guy's...... They just taught me how to push a spreader.... trying not to over lap... I was only at each company for about 2 months so I really didn't learn anything... but I saw how they did it and just figured this is easy.... I worked for a Nursery who had a small landscaping business but sold it... I bought it... and its been successful ever since.... FINGERS CROSSED! Most of my customers are really good people kinda like friends... but I know the difference between friends and business lol....

Were can you go to school for lawncare? I know there is a SCOTTS school of lawn care.... Any info on that? I know there is some sort of course that you can take somewhere in the U.S. When I worked for Scotts they had each of there main tech's take a course there.. I saw the certificate after they passed.. I would like to chat with you more lawnboy and RIC you guy's seem like very intelligent people, I just hate it when people laugh at questions that one may ask that has to do stictly with lawncare no matter how retarted the question... thats why we are all here... but they really need to make a NEWBIE forum... A newbie forum for fert and pesticide... newbie forum for renovation and so on... it helps everybody!

I have one more question.... After I applied to 18-0-18 I noticed that some of the lawn is different color green.... Kinda like a light color... some grass blades only though... kinda weird... some are dark some are light... All my lawns are small... I deal with majority lawns less or around the 1000 sqft size. My largest 2 lawns are about 3,600 and the other has to be around that also.... WHAT BOOK CAN I BUY? I bought SCOTTS LAWN BOOK... but its kinda like reading the same things over and over... Thanks again! PEACE

quiet
08-06-2005, 10:38 PM
Keep reading here. Do searches and do more reading. Then more reading, then more searches!

You'll be amazed at what info is here from some of the most knowledgeable minds in the turfgrass industry. It's like sitting at the feet of the masters!

I remember my lessons well . . . the monastery in Florida . . . a sometimes cranky and cantakerous old man . . . self-taught . . . very wise . . . he used to run a nursery, too . . . got sued . . .

"When will it be time to leave Master?"
"When you can snatch the fire ant from my hand."

And then he said he was gonna write a book, and I'm gonna hafta pay for the book (which he hasn't written) if I want any more info on St. Aug diseases, and he Kung Fu kicked me in the groin.

Good times . . . good times.

lordohturf
08-07-2005, 11:08 PM
If you can see fertilizer at the bottom of the burn, somehow you overapplied.
This is easy to do at the end of a pass by slowing down or stopping. The fertilizer builds up and spills over on the impeller. When you start again, you tend to dump large amounts. Also it's best to use the green fertilizer guage instead of the number setting on the back of the spreader for calibration.

If you do stop or slow down at the end of a pass, make sure you shut the spreader off, then restart at the beginning of a new pass.

Hope this helps!

Mscotrid
08-08-2005, 03:22 PM
A couple of things 1: Lesco's 18-0-18 is formulated for summer application, it's 50% slow release and the 50% mop(muriate of Potash) 50% sop(sulphate of potash this reduces the amount of chlorine and salts in this product. I have applied this product in temps up to a hundred degrees and never had it burn.
2: Alot of talk in this thread about "spreader settings" and "calibration" The two factor that determine the amount of product that is applied to the lawn
have nothing to do with the spreader. They are: ground speed ( the rate you walk) and your spread pattern ( are your passes 6 feet apart or 8 do you go both directions or only one?)
We could spend an hour calibrating a spreader and setting it to a bag setting, then each go out and treat the same lawn and come up with different amounts of product used.
Take your 18-0-18 simple math tells us there are 9 pounds of nitrogen in that bag. During heat like your talking about I prpbably wouldn't want to put more than 1/2 pound of nitrogen per 1,000 sq ft. That bag should cover 18,000 sq ft. You could set your spreader wide open and accomplish this if you can run fast enough(not recommended).
As for pattern I try to get the pellets at the edge of my pattern to just be hitting the wheel marks from my previous pass. This ensure a double overlap and saves me from walking the lawn both directions.
Mostly you just get familiarized with your spreader so that you know where to set it to get 4lbs per 1,000 or 5lbs per1,000. Or in the case of 18-0-18 2.75 lbs per 1,000.
I got so good at it that if I had a lawn that was mis measured I could tell because me and my spreader were more accurate than a guy with a measuring wheel.
One final thought someone said that the settings on the bag are geared towards a pound of nitrogen per 1,000 and that is correct. But you were talking settings around 17 and 15 those do sound high to me. If I recall when I was set at 14 I was running about four pounds of product per 1,000. Those numbers did seem high to me. Try around 11-12. Watch your patterns and record pounds of product used.

SodKing
08-08-2005, 04:04 PM
I know everyone is saying Burn, overapplication... but I am thinking that the nitrogen may have increased fungal activity. Hollistic, give us some pics and we can correctly diagnose your issue.

Ric
08-08-2005, 04:24 PM
Keep reading here. Do searches and do more reading. Then more reading, then more searches!

You'll be amazed at what info is here from some of the most knowledgeable minds in the turfgrass industry. It's like sitting at the feet of the masters!

I remember my lessons well . . . the monastery in Florida . . . a sometimes cranky and cantakerous old man . . . self-taught . . . very wise . . . he used to run a nursery, too . . . got sued . . .

"When will it be time to leave Master?"
"When you can snatch the fire ant from my hand."

And then he said he was gonna write a book, and I'm gonna hafta pay for the book (which he hasn't written) if I want any more info on St. Aug diseases, and he Kung Fu kicked me in the groin.

Good times . . . good times.


Quiet

I believe that cranky cantankerous old man actually has a bachelor degree in horticulture and 17 letters behind his name from different certification. However he does have horrible grammar skills for an educated man. I also see some awfully thinned skinned people who read his free advise. Somehow I can get past his Cranky attitude to read what he has to say. However I guess his Screaming Fire Ant avatar is most fitting.

Let's see what is it that seperate a person from everyone else in the green industry?? Could it be WHAT they know?

Holistic Landscapes
08-08-2005, 07:55 PM
OK! "INCREASED FUNGUS GROWTH BY APPLYING NITROGEN?" I have to get a good book or something..... Dollar spot is cured or helped by applying nitrogen... now nitrogen can increase it? Dude... I honestly need to study.... I know somebody told me to keep looking at this site.... but I need a good informative book! I don't care if the freak'n thing is 5000 pages... I need somthing to read everyday that can help! Also.... what about courses on lawncare? Anything? I"m in the new york area not CALI!

quiet
08-08-2005, 09:21 PM
Quiet

I believe that cranky cantankerous old man actually has a bachelor degree in horticulture and 17 letters behind his name from different certification. However he does have horrible grammar skills for an educated man. I also see some awfully thinned skinned people who read his free advise. Somehow I can get past his Cranky attitude to read what he has to say. However I guess his Screaming Fire Ant avatar is most fitting.

Let's see what is it that seperate a person from everyone else in the green industry?? Could it be WHAT they know?


Ah yes. And more importantly, WHAT you know and how it can relate to what you DON"T know, and where and how to find the answers.

Many of us got past his cranky attitude right away, and we listened . . . and learned. As far as having thin skin, some took advice unabashedly and although they didn't give credit publicly, they knew where the source knowledge flowed from. They are forever grateful that he would share his seemingly endless insights of these very complex problems. Perhaps not in specifics, but more importantly he help others to develop their own set of resources to draw on. Resources that are specific to one's own location, and it's inherent problems.

He inspired further study; and pointed us toward the background knowledge needed to ask "Why?"

Those who dismissed him as merely cranky and cantakerous have lost out; take the Orgasmic arena, for example!

Ric
08-09-2005, 12:02 AM
Ah yes. And more importantly, WHAT you know and how it can relate to what you DON"T know, and where and how to find the answers.

Many of us got past his cranky attitude right away, and we listened . . . and learned. As far as having thin skin, some took advice unabashedly and although they didn't give credit publicly, they knew where the source knowledge flowed from. They are forever grateful that he would share his seemingly endless insights of these very complex problems. Perhaps not in specifics, but more importantly he help others to develop their own set of resources to draw on. Resources that are specific to one's own location, and it's inherent problems.

He inspired further study; and pointed us toward the background knowledge needed to ask "Why?"

Those who dismissed him as merely cranky and cantakerous have lost out; take the Orgasmic arena, for example!

Quiet

After typing quite a long humorous comeback I deleted it. I am not going to post my true Feeling about the Lustiest Organism arena. I will stick my neck out and say I was but a peon among many very knowledgeable people who no longer post here.

BTW if you are going to call me Canta(N)kerous Please spell it correctly :D

DUSTYCEDAR
08-09-2005, 07:57 AM
I"m in the new york area not CALI
WHAT?
nyc?
if so fungus is pry your prob right now brown patch is real bad and almost drought conditions r getting worse in the area even with irrigation
and if u have fungus and the sprinkler is running it could be makeing the prob worse

Shadygrove
08-09-2005, 02:02 PM
Holistic-
Dont get frustrated, some of the dumbest lawn guys I've ever seen have read all the books. I do recommend you read them but more impotantly pay
attention to your turfs, spend alot of time on your knees digging around in the turf and observing what is happening. Most of the guys you hear from in here got thier knowlege from years of working on turf every day. You'll get there. Be observant is the damage over the entire lawn or just the edges of your pattern? Is there a pattern?
Remember that diseases are generally going to be problems only in areas that might have some types of cultural stress. Is it a wet area of the lawn?
Or maybe it is a case of isolated dry spot. Try to probe the browning areas with a soil probe or knife and see if you can penetrate the soil.
We've had to explain to many customers the difference between watering the lawn and the lawn percolating water.
Also heat burn and sun burn can often be mis diagnosed as disease or fert burn. Any given day that is in the upper 90's or 100's degrees the lawn can go into stress and burn. A week later when the stress has been relieved the lawn will green back up except the burned spots which will go brown.
These are the kinds of questions you need to ask and observances you need to make and you'll puzzle out what is happening.
Do that several hundred times and you'll start sounding like the rest of us here.

RedEarthLab
08-12-2005, 07:23 PM
I can't say enough about soil testing. I have seen lawns totally messed up by adding fertilizer when it was not needed, even if the fertilizer was applied at the suggested rate on the bag. I had one soil with a pH of 3.4 because of the wrong type of fertilizer continually being applied. pH, salinity, climate, and soil type need to be taken into account to choose the correct blend and form of NPK. A 10-20-10 all mineral may work fine in one lawn and may damage another. Get your soil tested and follow the labs recommendations.

SHOWCASE LAWNS LLC
08-12-2005, 07:55 PM
You Will Never Be Done Learning In This Biz. The Second You Think You Know It All Mother Nature Will Almsot Always Give You A Wakeup Call.

Example
Most Of The Lawns In My Area Are Under Drought And Heat Stress And Are In Rough Shape Lately. Under These Conditions You Only Do Apps If Absoloutely Necessary. And As The Jap Beatles Are The Worst Ive Seen In Years I Had To Do My Grub Apps. So I Went Out Doing Liquid Fert/crabgrass/grub Control Control The Other Day. . Almost Right Away It Started To Rain. Oh Great!! The Grub Control Gets Watered In But The Crabgrass Control Is Shot. Wrong ! To My Delight It Rained Lightly Enough Not To Wash Off The Msma But We Got Enough Water To Take The Lawn From Almost White To Screamin Green In A Few Days. Btw, The Crabgrass Has Gone To Yellow And On Its Way To Being Dead.