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landcare pa
08-05-2005, 09:40 PM
Has Anyone One Else Used Marcus Drake For H2b Workers? I Am At The End Of My Rope With There Broken Promise`s Does Anyone No A Good Honest H 2 B Recruiting Firm That Doesnt Play Games If So Please Post I Have Had My Approval And Have Names Of The People I Was To Receive. Also Does Anyone Have A Contact # For The Mexican Government In Montery Please Respond Just Getting Tired Of Pissing Money Away I Must Have Spent $25,000 In The Last 2 Years I Have 3 Apartments Sitting Empty As We Speak Waiting For My H 2 B Workers Plus A New Van. Any Help Would Be Appreciated . Thanks

mbella
08-07-2005, 09:49 PM
I used to manage the H2B program for Omni/Valley Crest. I know two very reliable companies. They are both more reliable and less expensive than Marcus.

Call me @ 484.614.3270

Mike

Redneckn
08-09-2005, 12:55 PM
That's what you get for hiring non-AMERICAN.

mbella
08-09-2005, 05:18 PM
That's what you get for hiring non-AMERICAN.

Oh, and there aren't any issues when hiring americans. They all show up everyday, on time and give you your money's worth. Never a problem. Yeah right.

Anyway, aren't you an employee?

bigviclbi
08-09-2005, 10:01 PM
This Dude's Posts Are RACIST AND RidiculouS.

Redneckn
08-10-2005, 12:01 AM
Mbella. Yes, I am an employee. I guess I miss the point there.
Was there one?

Oh, and there aren't any issues when hiring americans. They all show up everyday, on time and give you your money's worth. Never a problem. Yeah right.

Please tell me that is not your reason... People who think like you do are the reason we have an unempoyment rate. Thanks.
For every non-American you hire, help hire out, or otherwise involve yourself in the employment of, you are driving the taxpayer burden up. Again, thanks.

bigviclbi: This Dude's Posts Are RACIST AND RidiculouS.

I said nothing about any race. That was you that brought that into this conversation. It would be in your best interest not to try and start that crap. Really it would. Since the episode the other week, I have decided that I will leave that to another board. We can chat about it there if you'd like. Let me know and I'll give you the web address.

All I said was that that's what you get for hiring non-Americans. I guess you and your familys jobs are all safe?

mbella
08-10-2005, 12:14 AM
Redneck, let me break it down Barney style for you. You are an employee, not an employer. Whether or not you put food on the table isn't dependent on who shows up for work.

Redneckn
08-10-2005, 12:20 AM
That doesnt mean that I dont care though. If my company is not doing well, it will affect me and everyone else that works there.
You sure got crappy about this. Kind of funny.


Just so you are aware though, while I am no "major" employer, we do run a small family farm and we hire people all the time to come and do work for us. We hire Americans.

I guess I just don't understand why hiring Americans is such a bad thing. If it is that important to hire non-Americans, go to mexico, or el salvador, or wherever and then hire the people in that country.

What is wrong with American labor?

mbella
08-10-2005, 12:32 AM
I'm not getting crappy at all, just telling the truth. When I run an ad, do you think I list that I am looking for a hispanic? No, I don't. If I run two ads concurrently, one ad in an english printed paper and another in a hispanic paper, which do you think gets more responses? It's usually something like 0 americans and many hispanics. Really, do you think I care. I just want workers that show up everyday and work hard.

I have two hardscape foreman, both white americans. Both bust ass everyday. I can't find one american to work with them as a laborer. I have tried and it doesn't happen.

Seriously, let's not act like there isn't a problem with americans wanting to do the type of work we do.

Btw, you're blaming "people like me" for the unemployment rate and telling me not to get crappy. You don't have a clue.

Redneckn
08-10-2005, 12:45 AM
You just are one of many that doesnt care enough to try and do anything about it.

You say I don't have a clue because I don't agree with you???

I never said there wasn't a problem. There is and I will be the first to admit it. But hiring non-Americans is not going to fix it. And I do realize that by fixing it, it could hurt your business. That is part of it.

Think about it just for a second. If we were to toss out every last illegal and non-citizen, then stop paying any kind of unemployment. People would then either work or starve. If you force people to fend for themselves they will. And not having enough employees is a good thing. Because employee X will know that if he ain't pulling his weight, you will tell him to take a hike because there will be many others lined up waiting for his job.

I know it seems harsh and impossible. But it is not.

I don't slight you for owning your own business and doing your own thing. That is the American way. I will be glad when the day comes where I can just farm. Not everybody can be their own boss. Some people are just not motivated that way. Do know that I respect you for doing your own thing. I just don't like your hiring practices. I also realize that it is not entirely your fault. IF the powers that be did not hand out money you would have nothing but Americans working for you.

mbella
08-10-2005, 12:53 AM
How is not having enough employees a good thing for an employer? Furthermore, why would my employees be afraid and work harder if I'm already short handed. Maybe I missed something.

I didn't say you don't have a clue because you disagree with me. I said it because you don't deal with it as an employer. You, as an employee, can reasonably assume, if you go to work every day this week, you will have a check next week. I, as an employer, can reasonably assume, if everybody shows up this week, works hard and gets the job done, I will get a check. If they do the job in the time I estimated, there will even be something for me.

Tonight, you can throw out all of the illegals and I won't be short handed tomorrow. My guys will all be here.

Redneckn
08-10-2005, 01:08 AM
Oh, I did forget to mention that you would have to pay more. Supply and demand on employees. That is why people would not want to get canned. That and I'm sure there are crappier jobs than what your guys do out there. Like pig farming. I saw that one on Discovery.haha..



You assume because currently I work for a company that I have never owned my own small business. I have. It got to be a p.i.t.a. and economy back in Louisiana is not all that hot. I could come over here to Austin and make better money with less headache.


I really so understand most of your side of this.. I just don't think that in the long run it is good for America. I don't just assume that I know everything and know that I am 100% correct. I just haven't seen any other plan that seems logically good for America long term. But I do keep and open mind about such matters.

It has been a pleasure to have this discussion with you as you have not resorted to name calling and insults. That was a welcomed surprise.
Good luck with your business.

mbella
08-10-2005, 01:11 AM
I don't usually resort to that. Take care.

Marcus Drake Consultants
08-13-2005, 09:24 PM
I am the president of Marcus Drake Consultants, and this is a response to landcare pa. Our company is one of the oldest established recruiting firms, with 3 offices in Mexico, Guatemala, El Salvador, Jamaica, Costa Rica, Dominican Republic, Grenada, and Ecuador. We are a full service company. We help you complete all the papers here in the USA and then find great people to fill your requirements in the foreign country. Our own staff does this ! Other companies charge huge amounts of money and only do part of the job. We do it all. Landcare pa who is Elegant Lawn Care never did this process previously. Last year and this year were crazy and unusual due to the cap the Gov't imposed. We did not do this,.. the Government did ! OUR FEE is not $25000 we charge $100 per person over 10 people. I would like to compare that fee with my competitors!! I was never consulted if he should rent appartments or buy a van before he got his men approved by the consulate. Nothing is 100 %
We only promise what we are sure of and that is in writing. As far as honesty, I refunded 100% (or credited) fees collected for companies that processed and did not get their people due to the cap. NO OTHER Company did this that I know of .... we spent 4 months worth of my staff's time getting approvals and doing the para legal work only to refund the money. How many of you would do that. How much more honest could I be....??!!
Even after all this I understand why he is pissed.. one of my staff did not return his call when I was in Costa Rica bringing more people in. Further his company was delayed due to the U.S. Government's new policy to double check some of the new companies filing for H2B. This is not my policy it is theirs. I am sorry I just had to vent. We try very hard to help the Green Industy since I know how valuable these people are to your businesses. I have worked with Green organizations and made many trips to Washington, D.C. at my expense to help this go through and continue the H2B program.
I hope to sponsor this website and help anyone that wants it.
Best regards,
Marcus Drake

mbella
08-13-2005, 09:51 PM
Marcus, how much do you charge for the first 10 workers?

Marcus Drake Consultants
08-14-2005, 09:12 AM
1-3 is $500 per person
4-9 is $200 per person
10 or more is $100 per person.
If a company is taking more than 20 the price is cheaper depending on the type of jobs and the country that we must get them from.
If the company does not get the people we refund the money except for a very small amount for our labor. (new policy)
Marcus Drake

landcare pa
08-22-2005, 09:55 PM
i would like to thank marcus drake for coming threw in a pinch with the help we needed all of our guy`s are now here, they did what they promised and our by far the most reasonable company to deal with ,and they didn't charge me $25,000.00 . it was around $1500 for 15 guys thank you noel for a job well done. the problem was with the government not marcus drake .

ed2hess
10-23-2005, 08:56 PM
Landcare,

Did you ever try to get crew chiefs from H2B? Our experience this year was similar as yours, infact we only got our workers in October....not good since work was dropping off at that time....Cost for us was around $3000 for less than 10 and no refunds for no people.

landcare pa
10-25-2005, 06:01 PM
what company did you use?

ed2hess
10-25-2005, 07:18 PM
what company did you use?
We used our law firm in Austin.. As I read more about Drake it sounds like there is a fee to gov for around $1100 and since we tried to work two different categories(worker and crew chief). It cost us $2200 for gov [;plus the lawyer fee so it sounds like Drake is about same as our guy. The reason we didn't get workers until Oct was because gov had set limit and we missed first wave of allocations in Jan, and that was not changed until mid summer.

landcare pa
10-25-2005, 07:35 PM
i think th is a company out in texas called amigo`s they may be able to help you,not sure if marcus drake handles texas.

UNISCAPER
10-27-2005, 11:34 PM
On similar lines, I have run ads in help wanted sections of the San Diego Union Tribune. All types of positions available starting at $18.00 per hour, all the way up to $32.00 per hour positions available with respective benefits to the right qualified candidate.

With unemployment around 5% in our area, guess what nationalities 90%of the persons answering this ad were? Guatamalan, Mexican, El Salvadorian, Brazilian. They were very happy to start at the bottom of the pole if that is what we had open. The other 10% comming from the American born depictions. They wanted the top pay scale, and many immediately asked for a company truck. All positions we have require getting ditry. It's what we do....Those who immediately asked for company trucks expected to come to work in a white shirt, and leave with it clean.

After having had many employees from every walk of life, I come to the conclusion, at least in our area, that getting your hands dirty, and taking the chance that your palms might calous is beneath the vast majority of American born, sorry to say. I feel we can thank in part, the education system, college to be exact, because kids are taught to get a degree, and command a salary in many cases, regardless of what production is made. Work ethic is if not has already hit the toilet.

Yeah it is a broad brush, but as with alot of what I know, the statement comes from personal experiences I have at our company. So, you can hire all the Americans you want. At the end of the day, want to bet the immigrant crews employed at most companies get more done with less pissing matches, and fewer client complaints than American born crews.

Marcus Drake Consultants
10-27-2005, 11:49 PM
I am sorry to say you are correct and the problem is not just in that area. Marcus Drake Consultants deals with the entire country and that is repeated all over. The work ethic in many foreign countries is the way it was here 40 years ago. They are willing to work hard and get ahead. Thank you for your comments.

Broker
10-28-2005, 08:30 AM
Uni,

I totally agree with you. On your experience what country would you find the best work ethic from: Guatamalan, Mexican, El Salvadorian.

Brianslawn
10-28-2005, 05:55 PM
el salvador is best from what i hear.

they (white americans) dont ask me for a company truck. just a ride to and from work every day cause they dont have a drivers license.

Marcus Drake Consultants
10-28-2005, 10:24 PM
They all do. Part of our job is that our trainer personnel screen and select the guys. Most are friends or relatives of the people working here now. Once and a while you get one that is no good so you fire them. For the most part they are super workers. Please note ... you must file now if you want them for this coming spring 06 Hurry. I am on a business trip to Asia and will be returning to my offices by Nov 7. My staff will try to assist with any other questions . I will continue to check the emails and lawnsite.

larz
11-29-2005, 04:17 PM
I'm sorry to cut in so late, but...
Hiring illegals is definitely illegal & downright un-American. No amount of wining & excuses justifies breaking the law or harming our security & economy. I am a business owner & I refuse to take the greedy, easy way out. Americans won't work? Bull, I'm American & I work my rear off. I've out-produced more than 2 or even 3 non-english speaking illegal workers & my quality is better to boot! I do expect to get paid though. If Sangria-La called & offered your basic American 15 times his average pay, a ride to work & free lunch, you can be sure he would show up every day too. You cannot expect to pay $8-10 an hour to Americans to excavate, hard-scape, horticulture, irrigate or basically even show up every day. No pension or security, crappy or non-existant insurance, cost of living, gas & tax hikes, what do you expect? It has really nothing to do with that anyways, all you really want is cheap damn labor, so you can stick more into your pocket. My lowest offering pay rate is $12 an hour & I only hire Americans. I even let my customers know this fact, it's actually becoming a good sales point. No creepy, non-english speaking workers on my customers property suits me fine, & pleases many of them as well. One of our motto's is "We Hire American". Please try & reconsider your stance on this, it is morally wrong.

UNISCAPER
11-29-2005, 07:32 PM
Uni,

I totally agree with you. On your experience what country would you find the best work ethic from: Guatamalan, Mexican, El Salvadorian.


Actually, any one who came from a third world country Asia, Pakistan, India, Guatamala, etc etc. comes here to seek a better life, and I have no beef with that as long as they do it legally. The ethics they are taught are far greater than the ethics moxt generation X or Y Americans possess, sorry to have to say. Sure you find a few who work their tails off and expect a reward, rightfully so. But the vast majority come to work, expecting a paycheck regardless of how much they accomplished during the week, expect a company truck, or big bucks bonuses when they see the gross numbers of a job having little consideration for all the expeses that compile the gross cost of anything. Those who come from the third world countries work hard, pool together and succeed in having more than most Americans do by the end of their working life, having done so on usually less money.

Our lowest rate of pay is $17.00 per hour and highest is $32.00 per hour. That is the cost of living in this overpriced sand box. If someone is making $32.00 an hour, if they are going to work for us, they better have more motivation than that hourly amount if they want to stay working here.


This is not a new problem with work ethics. If you read some of the inter company memos in Orville and Wilbur Wrights airplane factory in 1915, they spoke of how American work ethic hit the tank. I think it has alot to do with the greatness of what this country has to offer. We being born here, become complacent and feel a sense of entitlelment just by being who we are. Those who are new to what we offer have a sense of pride and ethic that somehow gets oost in the shuffle.

At least in theory. I personally have worked since I was 6. I was taught by my parents that if you want to get ahead, you work. No one owes you a thing. In contrast we have a family down the street whose parents cave in and give them evrery single thing they ever ***** for. It's so bad that the daugters grab their moms purse and "tell her" not ask, but tell her they need $40.00 and are taking it even after the mom says she needs the money.

That happens alot around here. and it did back home as well.

Yeah I would love to hire only English speaking American workers. If I did I would have to increase gross sales by 30% to support the lack of productivity and probably be bancrupted in 2 years.

Marcus Drake Consultants
11-29-2005, 11:44 PM
I see many people are missing the point, in order to get the foreign temporary workers there is a procedure that must be followed. Our Government then issues a temporary work visa...H2B. These people must get a Social Security Card and be paid prevailling wages. They PAY FEDERAL AND STATE TAX THEN GO HOME AT THE END OF THEIR VISAS. They are not illegal. I am not for hiring Illegal either. These people do not take away American jobs. You must hire any American that applies for the job before the foreign person can be hired.
Work ethics, they want to please the boss so they can make money to send home to their family. In all the years that we have been supplying people I have seen many small companies grow strong thru the hard labor of these people. I am sorry to say things are nolonger the way they were 40 years ago.

allinearth
11-30-2005, 07:52 AM
Uniscaper is right. Most Americans don't want these jobs. They might sweat! Too many people want big checks but don't want to work for it. To me, someone has to prove what they are worth before I pay big bucks but many people want to start off with high wages without paying their dues. There are exceptions but they are limited. I have started to convert my pay system to be based more on % of production. This way employees are motivated like I am. If they don't produce they get paid less. Many people don't understand that they have to produce more than what they are paid in order for a company to survive. I could go on and on.......

Brianslawn
11-30-2005, 07:43 PM
I'm sorry to cut in so late, but...
Hiring illegals is definitely illegal & downright un-American. No amount of wining & excuses justifies breaking the law or harming our security & economy. I am a business owner & I refuse to take the greedy, easy way out. Americans won't work? Bull, I'm American & I work my rear off. I've out-produced more than 2 or even 3 non-english speaking illegal workers & my quality is better to boot! I do expect to get paid though. If Sangria-La called & offered your basic American 15 times his average pay, a ride to work & free lunch, you can be sure he would show up every day too. You cannot expect to pay $8-10 an hour to Americans to excavate, hard-scape, horticulture, irrigate or basically even show up every day. No pension or security, crappy or non-existant insurance, cost of living, gas & tax hikes, what do you expect? It has really nothing to do with that anyways, all you really want is cheap damn labor, so you can stick more into your pocket. My lowest offering pay rate is $12 an hour & I only hire Americans. I even let my customers know this fact, it's actually becoming a good sales point. No creepy, non-english speaking workers on my customers property suits me fine, & pleases many of them as well. One of our motto's is "We Hire American". Please try & reconsider your stance on this, it is morally wrong.



you just might be a redneck.... idiot.


what do you do? pay whiteys $25/hr to do one $20 yard an hour. then let them drive your truck 40 miles out of the way for a 2 hr lunch break while they are there. after that put up with them breaking all your trimmers and blowers and causing extensive damage at all customers yards. to top it off $12k mower starts smoking oil, so they decide no biggie... theyll tell you when they get back, if theyre not too stoned to remember. nevermind mower blew in yard. they go to the park rest of day and leave a note on your door that evening that mower is out in some yard and wont start so they left it. they didnt call you cause they didnt want to miss a call from their girlfriend.

you finally fire them. say they dont get paid for lunch break or playing in the park. they file unemployment against you. they call state labor board saying youre a cruel boss and are refusing to pay all their hard earned wages. they made you $100 for the day. they cost you $10,000 and 5 customers.

yeah, lets give whitey a chance. after all he did say he would be a good worker and that GED diploma he flashed almost looked good enough to be real!


all my 'wealthy american customers' tell me they rather have mexicans in their yard than whiteys. if i ever hire any more whiteys, the mexicans noel sends me will be their higher paid supervisors.

7 whiteys fired in ONE YEAR for stealing.
0 mexicans ever fired for stealing. (6 year history)

this is all fact and would probable have more horror stories, but 90% of whiteys after offering $15/hr starting wage didnt even show up the first day! :realmad:

YardPro
12-13-2005, 06:32 PM
go get im brian..............

and i agree....
most of the absolutely worst employees i have had were americans... our society is producing a generation of lazy entitled playstation kids.....

i ask an american kid to work with a shovel and wheel barrell all day and they tell me i am crazy.. the mexicans tell me si senoir....

i am almost fluent in spanish having taken it in private school from grade 3-12...and up until the last few years i did not employ mexicans as i tried to keep it american........ but i was tired of all the no shows.. terrible work... just there for a paycheck attitude..

had american kids almost get my trucks confiscated from thier drugs... hit and runs... etc.....
all of my hispanic employees pay takes, come to work every day and are upset if they can't work.. they never complain about what work they are doing... they are here to work thier butts off to support thier families back home... they don't want to get into trouble becuase it affects the money they send home....

they are head and shoulders above most of the american workers i have...

allinearth
12-13-2005, 08:22 PM
I have bad memories from back in the day being the only one to show up for work. Not any more. Like yard pro said now they get mad if they can't work.

Marcus Drake Consultants
12-16-2005, 01:31 PM
I just returned from Mexico and Central America and my staff has even more great guys ready to come to work LEGALLY in the USA. Most are presently working in construction or agriculture. These are young men head of household and are very serious about doing a good job to please their boss. If your company has not yet requested men and you begin now they would arrive the end of March or early April.
I appreciate the members of lawnsite for giving Marcus Drake Consultants the chance to place these guys. Merry Christmas to all !

ed2hess
12-16-2005, 05:49 PM
1-3 is $500 per person
4-9 is $200 per person
10 or more is $100 per person.
If a company is taking more than 20 the price is cheaper depending on the type of jobs and the country that we must get them from.
If the company does not get the people we refund the money except for a very small amount for our labor. (new policy)
Marcus Drake
You fee does not include the $1K + for the gov fees correct? What is the total cost to us for 1-3 persons? Can you specify that a guy has driver licenses?

Marcus Drake Consultants
12-16-2005, 06:06 PM
Our filing fees only cover our expenses and not the Government fees. Your other expenses are : cost of an ad in the newspaper for 3 days ...(remember, we have to offer the work to Americans first) INS (USCIS ) fee $1000 + $150+ $190=$1340 this fee is per application for the entire group not per person. So if you took 10 people it would cost $1000 our fee plus $1340 total of $2340 . Wouldn't you pay $234 to get a reliable , hard working person for your whole season! This guy can come back year after year !

Chriscob
12-17-2005, 09:34 PM
Marcus, Just make sure you make it clear to everyone here that you are really only interested in processing workers for companies that are looking for more than five immigrant workers. In a recent reply to my email to you, you stated, "At this time, I am not interested in processing your papers for one person. Please feel free to contact us in the future if your need 5 or more.
Marcus Drake"
So why even bother stating what the cost for processing 1-3 workers would be? Just curious.

Marcus Drake Consultants
12-18-2005, 06:15 PM
It is not worth the effort to go thru all that to process one person. My employees have to travel and spend the day at the consulate with a follow up in one or two days to get the visa. Moreover, the consulate feels that if you want one person it is to bring him for immigration and this is a nonimmigration visa. It is a problem to get one person to pass due to the 264 law.

Coreyb
12-18-2005, 10:46 PM
i have a ton of questions. i am a small to med operator. i am sick of tired of the dope smoking, stealing, bitching and moaning of american workers. over the past 3 years i have cultivated 1 keeper, maybe. so i am looking at going H2B. if you have experience with this please respond. i only need maybe 2 workers. a leader and a laborer. is it worth is to go this route? Markus, why can't you lump a bunch of us smaller operators together to get the magic number of 5 workers? also markus, if i do get 5, can i get the same guys back next year?

i would love to keep hiring americans. but the one's that can drive, have not had a suspension in the past 5 years (insurance req), don't wake and bake, or smoke at lunch, are clean cut, hard working, and no convictions are extremely difficult to find, and even harder to keep. i could pay a guy like that $15 - $18 an hour, with plenty of overtime. but don't have much for them in the winter. so they leave. the h2b really solves that problem, right?. let's face it, the keepers are hard to keep.

can anyone tell me haw their production rate has increase, decreased or stayed the same with h2b workers versus american workers. will h2b workers allow my business to grow, ie, i can get more done in a week with the same number of workers. i agree with the guy that said he advertises "we hire american" that is a big selling point. but do enough customers care?

i appreciate everyone's response

Coreyb
12-18-2005, 11:28 PM
Sorry Guys More ?'s. What About Housing For H2b's? Do I Sign The Lease? How Do I Charge Them? Do They Pay For 12 Months But Are Only Here For 8-9? I Heard Of A Local Company That Owns Their Own Houses And Apartments And Charges The Workers $300 Each To Live There.

Marcus Drake Consultants
12-19-2005, 08:59 PM
The Government does not allow companies to group together under the terms of this visa. They do under some of the other visas, but they cannot be used for this application. I will process as few a one if necessary as I have reconsidered. I understand your problems and it is repeated all across our country.
The workers are very loyal. You will pay them prevailling wage usually $7-$8 per hour to start. You can get the same persons back year after year. Housing... You need to help them find a place to live. They will pay the rent out of their pay. They are looking to stay as cheaply as possible so they can send money home to their families. They will share a room but they cannot be expected to find this on their own as they never have been here before.
They will not have your state's driver's license as they are from a foreign country. You will have to check with your state to see if they can get one.
Please check our web site for questions and answers. Please note that the first half of the visas for this year are now gone. If you file now we can obtain people from April 1 on. Please contact our office if you have questions. Merry Christmas !

bearcatlawn
12-21-2005, 09:16 AM
can you hire h2bs for less than 10 months or do you have to keep them for 10 months. being this late in the game, it doesn't make sense unless they go home in december.

ed2hess
12-21-2005, 02:07 PM
Please note that the first half of the visas for this year are now gone. If you file now we can obtain people from April 1 on. Please contact our office if you have questions. !
Marcus,
What does the highlighted statement mean? Does it mean that 50% of the available visa for new guys already given out?

ed2hess
12-21-2005, 04:22 PM
Marcus,
What does the highlighted statement mean? Does it mean that 50% of the available visa for new guys already given out?
Never mind we was notified a few minutes ago that 33K Visas have been given out already for new H2B workers. An additional 33K will be allocated for work April 1. The good news was that H2B guys that have already worked in US will not have a quota this year.

Marcus Drake Consultants
12-21-2005, 10:05 PM
yes, if you need them it is fine.

ed2hess
01-11-2006, 09:32 PM
We got our visas for the guys that we had in 2005 to come back in 2006. We can now schedule them to come. These guys will be able to get on the bus and ride to our city...

brucec32
01-12-2006, 12:44 PM
Hiring Americans for about $8/hour to sweat their tails off mowing lawns with no benefits, seasonal work, no status, long hours in the summer heat, etc. Gee, I'm shocked you can't find hardworking reliable ones for the huge sum you're paying them.

The wage needs to get up around $15/hour before you'll even dream of getting reliable Americans. You ever hear of "you get what you pay for?"

Relying on desperate 3rd worlders who are used to $1/hour or less doesn't make them superior, it just makes them temporarily more desperate for the money. Americans have other options they don't.

Studies have shown than 2nd generation immigrants have the same worth ethic as the children of native born Americans.

How many children of Latino immigrants who came here 20 years ago do you have working for you?

As soon as people have options, they opt out of working for the peanuts you're paying them. You're just exploiting the desperation of a few people who just arrived here and who don't have any better options because you can't think of a more clever way to do things w/o them. (don't worry, I can't either). You think they prefer sweating in the sun to sitting in an office at a more intellectually rewarding job genetically? Who's the racist here?

So get off your "you're all racists if you don't like me hiring immigrants" high horse. The fact that relying on massive quantities of foreign labor in this country is bad in the long run for the economy and society is a valid argument. Your kids might not be that bright and want a good paying job in 20 years themselves, remember that. They also might prefer not living in a nation with 500 million people crowded into it. But hey, enjoy your profits now.

Marcus Drake Consultants
01-13-2006, 08:12 PM
Bruce32
I am against hiring illegals also ! Before any of our clients can get foreign workers for the H2B program our government requires them to perform a job search. That is the job is posted in the computer of the unemployment office, now know as the Dept of Labor. They refer all American persons deemed qualified for that position to the employer. Further, the employer must advertise that job in the newspaper at prevailing wage not average or minimum wage. (look in the paper if you don't believe it) Only then can he proceed to file for foreign workers. WHEN NO AMERICANS WILL TAKE THE JOB . Entry level jobs do not require paying $15 per hour since it does not require too much thought or education. A logical business person will not pay more than the job is worth if he wants to stay in business. From researching your posts, I note that you complained that you cannot find help. Why don't you pay $15 per hour?
You referred to "studies" please provide the information where the studies can be found and who compiled them. It would be interesting to see how 2 nd generation immigrants have the same "worth" ethic as the children of native born Americans. Remember, native born Americans are what we used to call "Indians" I would love to read this study !
Options... I know many LCO's that have Hispanic foreman. I can advise they are not making $8 per hour. How are the LCO's racist if they hire people willing to work and get ahead. These business people want to expand their business with reliable willing people. Good luck to you and your Roman Empire studies!

Brianslawn
01-14-2006, 07:55 PM
Hiring Americans for about $8/hour to sweat their tails off mowing lawns with no benefits, seasonal work, no status, long hours in the summer heat, etc. Gee, I'm shocked you can't find hardworking reliable ones for the huge sum you're paying them.

The wage needs to get up around $15/hour before you'll even dream of getting reliable Americans. You ever hear of "you get what you pay for?"

Relying on desperate 3rd worlders who are used to $1/hour or less doesn't make them superior, it just makes them temporarily more desperate for the money. Americans have other options they don't.

Studies have shown than 2nd generation immigrants have the same worth ethic as the children of native born Americans.

How many children of Latino immigrants who came here 20 years ago do you have working for you?

As soon as people have options, they opt out of working for the peanuts you're paying them. You're just exploiting the desperation of a few people who just arrived here and who don't have any better options because you can't think of a more clever way to do things w/o them. (don't worry, I can't either). You think they prefer sweating in the sun to sitting in an office at a more intellectually rewarding job genetically? Who's the racist here?

So get off your "you're all racists if you don't like me hiring immigrants" high horse. The fact that relying on massive quantities of foreign labor in this country is bad in the long run for the economy and society is a valid argument. Your kids might not be that bright and want a good paying job in 20 years themselves, remember that. They also might prefer not living in a nation with 500 million people crowded into it. But hey, enjoy your profits now.



ive offered americans $15-$25/hr. they still dont want it. too hot. too hard. too dirty. I just say "youre never going to make the pros with that kind of attitude, son." furthermore i never even seen an american worker around here(that didnt already have his own biz) thats worth $15 an hour. most aint even worth minimum wage. its kinda hard to pay americans $50/hr when youre not even getting that much from customers. they dont want to work any faster so you can actually get a cut off their work, and the price the customer pays keeps getting lowered each year while other costs go up.

if only lawn boys werent a dime a dozen. we could actually raise our prices so that we wont starve after paying american employees $50 an hour. until consolidation starts occuring, we got people like noel to help us. :realmad:

joe7588
01-19-2006, 08:37 PM
Brian I agree 100%, the american worker always wants to be paid as much
as the owner. I know this lco who cuts 35 lawns a week, he had 2 employees
needless to say he didn't make any money. Now he wants to come work for me and is looking for 60k/yr. No F%ing way

larz
01-22-2006, 10:03 AM
you just might be a redneck.... idiot.


what do you do? pay whiteys $25/hr to do one $20 yard an hour. then let them drive your truck 40 miles out of the way for a 2 hr lunch break while they are there. after that put up with them breaking all your trimmers and blowers and causing extensive damage at all customers yards. to top it off $12k mower starts smoking oil, so they decide no biggie... theyll tell you when they get back, if theyre not too stoned to remember. nevermind mower blew in yard. they go to the park rest of day and leave a note on your door that evening that mower is out in some yard and wont start so they left it. they didnt call you cause they didnt want to miss a call from their girlfriend.

you finally fire them. say they dont get paid for lunch break or playing in the park. they file unemployment against you. they call state labor board saying youre a cruel boss and are refusing to pay all their hard earned wages. they made you $100 for the day. they cost you $10,000 and 5 customers.

yeah, lets give whitey a chance. after all he did say he would be a good worker and that GED diploma he flashed almost looked good enough to be real!


all my 'wealthy american customers' tell me they rather have mexicans in their yard than whiteys. if i ever hire any more whiteys, the mexicans noel sends me will be their higher paid supervisors.

7 whiteys fired in ONE YEAR for stealing.
0 mexicans ever fired for stealing. (6 year history)

this is all fact and would probable have more horror stories, but 90% of whiteys after offering $15/hr starting wage didnt even show up the first day! :realmad:


Idiot? Look, this is my personal, political view of this topic. I am sorry that your so unpatriotic & have such a low opinion of your fellow Americans Brian. I never said that you were going to be able to pay Americans less money, or treat them like crap, the way you can with illegal labor. I'm also pretty sure I did not resort to name calling. So let me fix that, you unpatriotic peice of crap.

The Ripper
01-22-2006, 11:05 AM
Let me get this straight you have been in this business for 0 years and you are giving out advice? I am guessing since you are so new that you are not even in a situation were you have employees so were are you getting your info to back up your attitude? Immigrant workers are the back bone of AMerica and they always have been. Starting with the Puritans, then the slaves, then the chinese, then the Southern Europeans, followed by the Irish and now the South and Central Americans. People use this site for actual business uses (at least that is the impression I get from SEAN), I admit the term Whitey could be construed as racist, but non the less keep your name calling in the forums at the bottom of the page where you can speak off topic.

larz
01-22-2006, 11:35 AM
Let me get this straight you have been in this business for 0 years and you are giving out advice? I am guessing since you are so new that you are not even in a situation were you have employees so were are you getting your info to back up your attitude? Immigrant workers are the back bone of America and they always have been. Starting with the Puritans, then the slaves, then the chinese, then the Southern Europeans, followed by the Irish and now the South and Central Americans. People use this site for actual business uses (at least that is the impression I get from SEAN), I admit the term Whitey could be construed as racist, but non the less keep your name calling in the forums at the bottom of the page where you can speak off topic.

wrong - 1. I have been in horticulture for many years (15-20). 2. I have been a business owner for 6-7 years 3. I am stating my opinion of hiring & extorting illegal immigrants, not giving out advice (do as you please) 4. you are guessing, yes you are 5. I have had employees, never illegal (though I have worked for companies that do) 6. Immigrant workers are great in my book too, as long as they are here legally 7. My name calling was in direct response to Brian of Brianslawn, who referred to me as a 'redneck idiot' 8. I fully endorse hiring any legal person, the act of hiring illegal workers harms this country, none of what I believe or stand for is anti American or racist in any way, it is political & I believe fiscally responsible for the long term benefit of this great country 9. when you ASSUME anything about me or any topic, you will most likely be mistaken
OK Ripper? I'm not looking for a damn fight here. When I first jumped into this topic, months ago, I realised that Marcus was referring to legal immigrant hiring practices & told him 'great, my bad'. Everything else has been in somewhat self defense. If you practice hiring ILLEGAL workers, I feel you are screwing this country & even yourself in the long run. Sure, you may make a bundle of extra cash in the short term, but eventually it will bite us all in the ass. Have a nice day.

The Ripper
01-22-2006, 01:00 PM
If you have been in business for such a long time you should update your profile on here to show that information. It currently says zero years. That profile was created by you and therefore led me to my conclusions. I did not know that you were denouncing ILLEGAL workers only. I thought you were mainly addressing all non-American born workers. I do not believe you are an idiot redneck, and no one should ever result to such name calling on this site.

I like this site a lot and I keep seeing all of these malicious posts on here. It is immature and can really effect people.

Brianslawn
01-22-2006, 03:49 PM
wrong - 1. I have been in horticulture for many years (15-20). 2. I have been a business owner for 6-7 years 3. I am stating my opinion of hiring & extorting illegal immigrants, not giving out advice (do as you please) 4. you are guessing, yes you are 5. I have had employees, never illegal (though I have worked for companies that do) 6. Immigrant workers are great in my book too, as long as they are here legally 7. My name calling was in direct response to Brian of Brianslawn, who referred to me as a 'redneck idiot' 8. I fully endorse hiring any legal person, the act of hiring illegal workers harms this country, none of what I believe or stand for is anti American or racist in any way, it is political & I believe fiscally responsible for the long term benefit of this great country 9. when you ASSUME anything about me or any topic, you will most likely be mistaken
OK Ripper? I'm not looking for a damn fight here. When I first jumped into this topic, months ago, I realised that Marcus was referring to legal immigrant hiring practices & told him 'great, my bad'. Everything else has been in somewhat self defense. If you practice hiring ILLEGAL workers, I feel you are screwing this country & even yourself in the long run. Sure, you may make a bundle of extra cash in the short term, but eventually it will bite us all in the ass. Have a nice day.


if you been in the biz for so many years, then you should know that h2bs are LEGAL immigrant workers. the fact you brought up ILLEGAL workers in a topic of LEGAL workers lead me to believe you were an idiot. i to believe that criminals should not be hired... whether they are illegal imigrants or drug using white boys. now, subtract those two groups from the local workforce and you will see why i need to find legal workers outside the area. im not anti american.... just anti whiney, lazy, drug using americans. unfortunately, in some parts of the country, that type of american is becoming the majority.

my appologies for hurting your feelings, i didnt realize you were so sensetive. :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

:O==8

Brianslawn
01-22-2006, 03:53 PM
further more... everyone is offered the same pay reguardless of race or gender. the hispanics are able to make more, though, from increased productivity.

allprogreens
02-03-2006, 08:47 AM
We are in the process of hiring a Customer Service Rep and a Marketing Assistant

Alot of people in the US just don't want to work anymore....I wish I could find a couple good Mexicans

I have worked w/ Mexicans on several occasions and they will work from Eight til faint.

Chris
All Pro Greens
Visit the "Contractor Section" of our website:
https://www.allprogreens.com/magazine/spring05-home.html

http://www.allprogreens.com/gallery/landscape/big025.jpg

mbella
02-04-2006, 09:43 PM
further more... everyone is offered the same pay reguardless of race or gender. the hispanics are able to make more, though, from increased productivity.

Where in the hell did you attend college? Your spelling and grammatical errors are so distracting.

Brianslawn
02-04-2006, 11:03 PM
Where in the hell did you attend college? Your spelling and grammatical errors are so distracting.


whats spelled wrong????

im used to typing code, which is all lowercase. thats why i dont use caps or most punctuation. do you know what code is? as for college... it was somewhere in the homeland. go hawks. how bout you? or did you?