Online Sprinkler Supply House

[drmiller100]

Hello,

The nearest sprinkler supply house to us is 100 miles away. I'm really sick and tired of getting shipped the wrong parts. I don't think I'm using weird stuff.
I'd like to find a supply house that can second day ship me supplies. Preferably the supplies I ordered.

I require consistent pricing.
A buck a sprinkler ain't gonna kill me, but starting at 10 bucks a head, then sneaking up to 16 a head tends to piss me off.

Ability to accept credit cards and keep them on file, or allow me to set up a 2500 dollar account.
A supplier that will EDUCATE me about better ways to do things.
A supplier that will help teach me to become more efficient.

Typically, at one time, I am ordering 50 MP rotors
OR
25 I20 stainless steels
along with saddles, L's, funny pipe, wire nuts, wire, etc.
Double check valves (optional, but for the right price.....)
Email/ or website would be nice, but I MUST be able to call on a phone and order stuff for second day delivery.

I use poly pipe, but I figure I'm just going to order 5k from someone somewhere and have it trucked in.

I'm a small player. This year I'll do 350 or so mp's, and a couple of hundred i20's...... The odd zone......

suggestions welcome!
drmiller100 at hotmail dot com
mccall idaho

[Dirty Water]

Set up an account with the nearest John Deere Landscapes. They do an excellent job and have good pricing. Our other supplier is H.G. Fowler, they provide most of our fittings and pipe.

We have a large shop with a large amount of inventory in it, so we recieve our 'freight' by the truckload once a week.

[turfman59]

You need to concentrate your purchasing to one supplier. You will get support through consistent purchasing and build relationships that will get you out of a jam in the future. It seems to me you are a newer contractor like me. My business would have not been able to grow without a succesful supplier/contractor relationship.

Why are you using SS heads and I -20's why not PGPS.

[drmiller100]

i'd love to buy from only one supplier. in fact, i only buy from one supplier at a time. when the one supplier can't get my mp rotors for a week, or can't get me my i20's for a week, or can't deliver swing pipe for 5 days, i switch.
i'm not shy. If a salesperson were to tell me "we're out of i20's, won't have them for a week", then I'd figure out how to survive a week, or order them from someone else, then go back to the HONEST salesperson.

i'm trying to be "high end" quality systems. I sell my systems as using high quality parts, with a 3 year guarantee. I guarantee the complete installation, including sod, water drainage, programming adjustments, the whole deal. For instance, I include first year's fertilizing, fall blowouts, and spring turn ons with installation price of sprinklers, grading, and sod.

I have been selling the I20 SS as being a quality, industrial strength part. I sell steel shafted sprinklers, so it isn't fair to compare my prices to those selling plastic sprinklers.
For a 25 head system, that ends up being a differential in price of 75 bucks. If I can sell my customer on my quality, and service, I have been able to up my rates on a complete system a lot more then that.

being new, cash is thin. I can't afford to carry 3 months supply of everything. I can carry 2 weeks worth, but stuff happens, and sometimes I run low. Right now I have a 17,000 dollar commercial invoice awaiting 9 mprotator 2000's and 6 mp 3000's. I ordered them July 28, and dad brought them up last night.
75 bucks in parts, and i get to invoice the builder 17k AFTER the final 15 heads are installed.

-doug

[Dirty Water]

We are the same way about installing high quality systems DRMiller, and our reputation for it lands us most of our jobs (no advertising needed).

I think what gets us the most jobs is when somebody walks by and notices that we use SCH40 pipe. We are the only company in this area (or the world???) that does not use any class pipe (SCH 40 pipe and 160+ PSI Poly only) and because of that we get the majority of the jobs.

We also sell I-20's as an optional upgrade to PGP's, but we don't try to make them sound too good, or people will think PGP's are junk, which they most definitly are not. I think we do 1 I-20 install for every 15 PGP install.

As time goes by, continue to build up your inventory. Our is HUGE yet would only last us two weeks or so.

[Wet_Boots]

Uhhh, you might want to drop the phrase 'steel-shafted' from your description, in favor of something that doesn't imply any steel beyond what can be seen on the popped-up head. The I-20's I've replaced had the same plastic joint (between the stationary and rotating parts of the head) as do the PGP's.

[drmiller100]

hi Wet Boots. Lets pretend we are both bidding a system. You give your schpiel.

I give mine. In mine, I say "here are the sprinklers I use. See, they have a steel shaft. They cost me a little more up front, but I don't make money by doing warrantee work, and I don't want plastic sprinklers of mine going bad.
The sprinklers I use are similar to my competitor's, but mine are a higher end, industrial version, with a steel shaft. My bid might be a little higher, but I don't think is fair to compare costs of bids directly. Here is how the system will work for you.

If you commit today, I can have it started by xx date, and fully expect to be done by yy. I don't take ANY money from you until I am done with the job, and you are happy.

[Wet_Boots]

It's just the English language that's the concern here. What you are describing as a 'stainless steel shaft' is actually a stainless steel sheath that covers a sprinkler that does not materially differ from a PGP. I really doubt that any customer is going to look into a head that's lost it's top, and discover that there is no steel shaft inside the head, and start screaming bloody murder.

As for not taking any money before a job is completed, this could be vividly foolish, depending upon the laws of the state in which you are working. Where I work, there is no contract whatsoever, despite whatever you may have on paper, unless actual money changes hands. Now, the odds of a satisfied customer blowing you off, may be slim, but if the law supports them in doing so, you'd better allow for the possibility.

[turfman59]

hi Wet Boots. Lets pretend we are both bidding a system. You give your schpiel.

I don't take ANY money from you until I am done with the job, and you are happy. what happens if they are still not happy. do you walk away with your hat in your hand. I have never heard of this kind of salesmanship, it must be tough to be so hungry

[drmiller100]

I work on it until they ARE happy.

i'm pretty hungry.

i'm bidding 600 a tap, plus 120 a head.

is that too low???

[turfman59]

You wouldnt be able to get any work in the market I compete in. I started out with that pricing structure ( by the head) the phone was pretty quiet, I had a great gross profit, but time will tell you, you cant carry a gross to the Bank. 600 a tap is very unrealistic, and a licensed plumber could do it for 1/2 that depending on how much copper is necessary. DO you own a cable plow or do you use a trencher

[drmiller100]

so how do you do it? what do you charge?
am i too high????

[bicmudpuppy]

so how do you do it? what do you charge?
am i too high????
To high is a very realitive term. I'm getting $450-500 for tap, I bid main and controller seperately ($185 for controller, and $1.85 for main+wire+$200 machine fee). I then get $38 for sprays and $58 for rotors w/ a $65/valve multiplier. I don't like the "happy" term. My final billing does say upon customer "satisfaction". This has bit me on the A$$ twice. In both cases, I shut off the backflow and removed the top from the MV and one other 2400 in the system. I (very politely) ask "what are you not satisfied with?" I then remind them that if they still want a working sprinkler system confirming ownership and paying for it is very important. If I don't get a check at this point, I immediately go down to county court and file a lein. It has never gotten to that point on an installation. I have had to file leins on commercial work and repairs more times than I would like.

I can't attach a spreadsheet, or I don't know how anyway. Board doesn't like those formats for files. I hope this helps some w/o the worksheet.

[jerryrwm]

The only people that can tell you if you are consistently too high is the customers. If they do not buy your services or system then you might be too high for your locality. If you are consistently closing over 80-90% then you might be leaving money on the table.

But for another contractor from another area not even close to where you are doing business to tell you that you are too high on your price and that you are ripping people off is just ludicrous. True the prices may be high for their area and the clientele that they are dealing with. Pricing is an area specific effort. That's why when someone charges $450 per zone or $40/spray and $75/rotor, someone is always going to say "You're way to low" or "You would never get any work around here" and then be smug in their response.

First they have no idea how I run my business. They have no idea what my overhead is, what my cost of doing business is, or what my profit motive is. They don't know what I pay for materials. (Hell I might have bought a pallet of heads from a junkie for $100.00) They have no idea what equipment costs are, or what my labor costs are. They have no idea what the demographics of my area are, so how in the hell can they say "You are too high or too low?"

Second they are trying to put their business practices into a foreign area. Just because they can't sell stainless risers, or a complete SAM system, or brass valves, or even a TUCOR system in their area, doesn't't mean someone is ripping off the customer. Some people like paying for the extras. I mean if a Proctor Silex coffee maker will brew a cup of coffee why would anyone buy a Bunn? To follow that logic into the sprinkler world, why would anyone have to buy a PGP or 5004 or CR-500 since the Orbit does the same thing? Why would you buy any other clock than a Watermiser from Orbit? It turns on the system and shuts it off. Why? Because we have been educated as to the benefits of using reputable equipment from reputable manufacturers, And we pass those benefits on to the consumer at a price they are willing to pay.

I am for getting all the money I can in good conscience. I will charge a fair price and if that's what the customer is willing to pay then I have a deal.

Now if another contractor comes into my area and start bringing their pricing structure in here and lowering the price, then, to take a term from the Lawn Care Ops, "They are a Lowballing Scrub!!"

And don't tell me that you can't get the higher price. It is all dependent on how you sell the system. If there are people buying HUMMERs in your area, then there are people that are willing to spend money. You just have to sell them on the features and benefits of doing business with you.

Just figure out what it costs you to be in business and price accordingly, and then be flexible enough to adjust accordingly.

Jerry R

[Critical Care]

By the way Bryan, if I remember correctly, you can attach spreadsheets to these messages by putting them into a ZIP file first. I believe this is how I posted a spreadsheet in the past... for whatever its worth department.

[bicmudpuppy]

I really like Jerry's response. That's why I said "to high" is relative. Remember, you can go broke sitting at home and it's a lot less work. That being said, remember that the customer still has to find value in what you do. If your out of their range, they will let you know. I'm comfortable selling about 25% of my bids. If the rate were higher than that, I would wonder if I had reached one of those stages of "cheap". My reason for showing prices was to illustrate the x factor in my pricing setup. Breaking the install down into conroller,tap, main, zone valves and heads is the best solution I've found to make sure I'm not crossing that line I don't want to venture into. It has to be profitable to work this hard. Bidding by zone works for a lot of guys out there. If your market is consistent for water supply, soil type, etc. Then as long as your multiplier is good, you should be good to go. Personally, I feel like seperating out the tap, controller and mainline make my systems more realistic for those larger 8-16+ zone systems. Tap, controller, and main means a system (to me anyway) is front loaded by $1000. I just can't start for less than that in most yards. If it is a 2 zone townhome, the fixed cost of tap and controller and getting the machine on site is still there. You still end up with up to 100' of mainline and wire. The customer with the 2 acre lot and good water pressure has the same front end cost. They have to water for 2 or 3 days in the AM to get we what that town house waters in 30min, but it was still only $1000 for the fixed costs with a slightly increased mainline (an extra 100' is still less than $200). Anyone who has enough computer skills to be here, should be able to build a simple spreadsheet to multiply costs this way. That's my nickels worth. Like all it advice, its free and it's worth just that much.

[AceSprinkleRx]

(Hell I might have bought a pallet of heads from a junkie for $100.00)

Jerry R

Got a link to this junkie's web site?

~

[Dirty Water]

Got a link to this junkie's web site?

~

www.crackheadsrus.com

:)

[Wet_Boots]

Hell I might have bought a pallet of heads from a junkie for $100.00
Ever see the episode of C.O.P.S. where the police show up and get a storage garage opened, and there happens to be a stolen tow-behind compressor in it? And how the contractor happened to pay a bargain price of five hundred dollars for the thing, from some guy who just happened by the construction site, and the compressor just happened to have a Lo-Jack unit in it?

[turfman59]

Now if another contractor comes into my area and start bringing their pricing structure in here and lowering the price, then, to take a term from the Lawn Care Ops, "They are a Lowballing Scrub!!"


Jerry RHow can you say that you dont know what there profit motives are or there overhead, so you can concur that if there cheaper than you they are a lowballing scrub. Maybe you dont know there efficiencies there experience levels or there helps expertise. My motive this year was to wear a competitor down, he does this for a living and I have 40 hour a week job, but my help has been with me over 3 years and they want to work, I slammed the door on there year I left a few hundred bucks on the table until I figured out his pricing strategies and then moved in for the kill. call me a lowballer but I will still eat if I dont work irrigation, LEAD FOLLOW OR GET OUT OF THE WAY.

[jerryrwm]

How can you say that you dont know what there profit motives are or there overhead, so you can concur that if there cheaper than you they are a lowballing scrub. Maybe you dont know there efficiencies there experience levels or there helps expertise. My motive this year was to wear a competitor down, he does this for a living and I have 40 hour a week job, but my help has been with me over 3 years and they want to work, I slammed the door on there year I left a few hundred bucks on the table until I figured out his pricing strategies and then moved in for the kill. call me a lowballer but I will still eat if I dont work irrigation, LEAD FOLLOW OR GET OUT OF THE WAY.

My friend, you need to read the post again to understand that I was talking about two different scenarios.

One was the fact that someone from say, Michigan, had made a comment that someone from say, Idaho, couldn't get work in his area because he was too high, and that he could get a plumber to do the work for about half. My point there was that it was impossible to compare two areas that far apart without knowing the demographics and the business practices of the area in question. It never ceases to amaze me how people can make a wild-assed statement without knowing the facts.

And yes anyone that bids lower than I do is a Low-baller in my eyes. I say that because I know what the cost of materials are in this area, I know what the cost of equipment rental or purchase is, I know what the going rate for labor is, and I know what the labor force is in my area. So that leaves the only variables in the equation - overhead, and profit motive. Overhead varies from individual to individual as does profit motive. So if I have figured my costs correctly, and determined my overhead correctly and then added in my desired profit, then in my eyes, anyone who prices lower than I do is a "Low-Baller" Conversely, if I am lower than they are, then I would be a "Low-Baller" in their eyes, and that's fair enough.

Now as to the 'wearing a competitor down' and 'slamming the door on their (that's the correct spelling for that particular pronoun by the way) year' by leaving several hundred dollars on the table, what did you accomplish? Did they go out of business? Did they lower their prices to match yours? Did they just move on and find other customers and leave the spoils to the victor? I'm not sure what your intentions were. But what I have seen you do from afar is drive the price of irrigation system installs lower in your market. Have you ever sat down and figured what a 5% reduction in price does to your bottom line profit? It's a helluva lot more than the 5%. And also figure out how much more work you have to do over the course of the year to make the same money you were making before the price cut.

There are several low-baller price cutters in our area. Some have even went as far as to tell customers that they will beat the lowest price by $400.00. Well the are ways of "breaking them of suckin' eggs." There are a couple of contractors, myself included, that will withdraw from the bid process once we find out that XYZ or DEF is bidding on a particular job. And I ask up front who they have bidding on the job. Kinda opens the homeowner's eyes when two or three refuse to give a price because of the competition, and then explain to the then the reason why. Poor quality of work and follow-up for any kind of warranty are some of the reasons the price is lower. I do enjoy the benefits of their crappy work on the repair calls I get, but on the other hand they are giving the industry a black-eye.

So, maybe things are different in your neck of the woods, but around here the idea is normally not to be the lowest priced contractor in town, but to be the best. And I don't think the two positions are mutually compatible.

Just my take on it.

Jerry R

[Grassmechanic]

Hello,

The nearest sprinkler supply house to us is 100 miles away. I'm really sick and tired of getting shipped the wrong parts. I don't think I'm using weird stuff.
I'd like to find a supply house that can second day ship me supplies. Preferably the supplies I ordered.

I require consistent pricing.
A buck a sprinkler ain't gonna kill me, but starting at 10 bucks a head, then sneaking up to 16 a head tends to piss me off.

Ability to accept credit cards and keep them on file, or allow me to set up a 2500 dollar account.
A supplier that will EDUCATE me about better ways to do things.
A supplier that will help teach me to become more efficient.

Typically, at one time, I am ordering 50 MP rotors
OR
25 I20 stainless steels
along with saddles, L's, funny pipe, wire nuts, wire, etc.
Double check valves (optional, but for the right price.....)
Email/ or website would be nice, but I MUST be able to call on a phone and order stuff for second day delivery.

I use poly pipe, but I figure I'm just going to order 5k from someone somewhere and have it trucked in.

I'm a small player. This year I'll do 350 or so mp's, and a couple of hundred i20's...... The odd zone......

suggestions welcome!
drmiller100 at hotmail dot com
mccall idaho
Back to the original question. I'll put a plug in for MTI (Marsan Turf & Irrigation) as an on-line supplier. www.sprinklers4less.com or 1-800-600-8873. Great prices, fast shipping, and good customer service.

On a side note...I also use JDlandscapes, but they price similiarily to Lesco - the more you buy, the more you pay. For a small guy, MTI will usually beat JD. Boy, do I miss Century Rain-Aid....

[Mdirrigation]

And irrigation distributor will ship you supplies , just call them . Aquarious irrigation in millersville maryland will . Tesco in Jessup Maryland will also.

Jerry , very well said .

[YardPro]

as for your origional question....

i also say set up an account with jond deere. they run a truck here tues and thurs.

they will deliver to my office or jobsite.

i only have to stock at the most a four day supply of material

the jobsite delivery is awesome.....

they also have green stores in some areas where you can buy plants, sod, etc... also delivered to the job.....

[turfman59]

Now as to the 'wearing a competitor down' and 'slamming the door on their (that's the correct spelling for that particular pronoun by the way) year' by leaving several hundred dollars on the table, what did you accomplish? Did they go out of business? Did they lower their prices to match yours? Did they just move on and find other customers and leave the spoils to the victor? I'm not sure what your intentions were.

Just my take on it.

Jerry RMy intentions were to postion myself as a contractor that will day in and day out exceed customer expectations for service and value. My competitors have been at this game a long time and have had there run,( or in lay terms reached the end of there growth curve) My primary intent is to develop an organization of highly trained individuals that have a sincere interest in improving peoples propertys through landscape, design and build, irrigation and turf management. Like I said earlier I have worked with the public for 27 years and am motivated to get my fair share of the pie in my market, which is all of it.

[turfman59]

One last thing, To gain market share, I may need to employ a few predatorial tactics, if necessary discounting is always an option or adding value or service. If I lose a little money along the way, so be it. My other job will still allow me to live comfortably. If I can stay on this double digit growth curve 3 more years I possibly can go full time with it. For now its just fun.

[bicmudpuppy]

One last thing, To gain market share, I may need to employ a few predatorial tactics, if necessary discounting is always an option or adding value or service. If I lose a little money along the way, so be it. My other job will still allow me to live comfortably. If I can stay on this double digit growth curve 3 more years I possibly can go full time with it. For now its just fun.

Since there are no cheap hobbies, I guess we can all be glad yours isn't near us. There are one or two similar outfits around here. most of my customers realize the risk that a part-timer who promises glorious pricing poses to the stability of the service they receive. Being a small competitive contractor, I may be at risk of extinction due to economy/market, but I won't dissappear because my "other job" became more important.

I had a guy two springs back advertising a $10 turn on that included backflow testing. Want to know what being cheap did for him? He is still working his full time job. Last I heard, that great pricing didn't net him a full score of customers, and the ones he got aren't the ones anybody else wanted. I do know that 4 of 5 of those he picked up wouldn't have been turned back on because they hadn't paid thier winterizations.

[turfman59]

I guess I am still a part timer with doing irrigation 35-40 hours a week. and a full time job 40 hours a week two employees working 40 hour a weeks. This is a real part time enterprise. I barely have enough time to stay in St, Maarten anymore. LOLOL