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View Full Version : Double blades on Scag Turf Tiger


JLC
03-09-2001, 12:05 PM
Not to beat a dead horse but I would like to hear from someone who is currently running doubles on a Scag Turf Tiger with a 25 Kohler and 61 inch standard deck. My question is whether or not the machine can power doubles. The way it is now it slows big time on hills with just high lifts (big disappointment). Also has this setup allowed you to go to weekly cuts? Last year I was cutting most of the year on a 4 to 5 day cycle and while the money was good I would like to taper frequency back to weekly to facilitate seasonal contracts more easily. The only reason my cut frequency was so close was that with the Scag it would clump if the grass was of any length.

Eric ELM
03-09-2001, 12:14 PM
25 HP should be plenty of power for double blades. I ran doubles on 20 HP Kohlers for several years on 60 inch decks and I still use them on a 22 HP Kohler with a 60 inch deck and we mow weekly in some pretty thick lawns that grow like crazy in the spring. I do not use Scag, but what I am saying is, you have the HP to run the blades. If you are short on HP with the 25, you may have head gasket problems. You may want to do a compression check.

JLC
03-09-2001, 01:20 PM
Eric,

Are you able to cut weekly in the spring or are you forced into closer time intervals even with doubles. Since you are the "pioneer" of the doubles, what setup do you use for regular cutting. A lot has been mentioned as to whether to run gators, regulars, hi lifts and about which combination of these blades is best. What works well for regular, dry cutting since this is probably 95% of what all of us do. As far as power goes I've wondered if the reason the Scag is so weak is because the deck is shaft drive with a gearbox instead of mule driven.

Ben

Eric ELM
03-09-2001, 02:40 PM
I am not possitive on this, but it could be the blade tip speed on that shaft driven machine. I have a 430 JD with the shaft driven deck and it does not cut good at all compared to my Choppers with a much higher blade tip speed.

I use high lift blade and a Gator blade all season long, until fall. I then go to double Gators and a magic mulcher. That chews up the leaves big time. ;)

Try different combinations and see what works best for you. I know doubles did help the JD 430, but it still isn't a good cut, so it sits all summer now.

turfguy33
03-09-2001, 03:03 PM
I can't really say from my own experience, but I knew of a guy that decided to put the double's on his great dane, which is about the same machine, just painted yellow. He said that the doubles worked fine until he got into taller than normal grass, or wet grass, then the machine would try to bog down and stall. The spindles are not really designed to handle that extra weight I think....The dixie is the only machine I have seen( that is why I'm buying one) to handle this with no problem........As far as my mower, I put the gator blades on my mower, and had a small problem with clumping if the grass is wet.......There is a new gator blade out there now that is designed for mulching wet grass in abrasive cutting conditions........It's called the magnum Gator......It's 25% thicker, with 40% higher lift. It also has a faster discharge of grass clippings

eggy
03-09-2001, 06:37 PM
I emailed Scag about double blades and your warrenty is VOID if you use this set up..just thought I would pass that along.

awm
03-09-2001, 06:45 PM
Dont know much yet about doubles.The answer to high grass is high octane.YOU CANT TELL MUCH DIFFERENCE UNTIL YOU START ASKING FOR MAX POWER.THEN YOU CAN TELL.

Evan528
03-09-2001, 07:02 PM
If you ever have a problem with the spindles take the second blade off and take the mower to the dealer... theyll never know!

John DiMartino
03-09-2001, 07:10 PM
JLC,I have a 25Hp kohler too,i understand what you are saying,yes it will labor more ,and bog much more with doubles.My 25 is a pig,and probably is about 20hp most of the time If Im lucky,that engine is a real dissapointment as far as power,I still use doubles in spring and fall,but pull them off in summer,when lawns dry out,they make much more dust,due to pulling more air.My 25 runs literally up against the stop when doubles are on it,and up hills,you gotta slow down or lose to much RPm's and let it bog.You will burn at least .3 more GPH of fuel too,but the cut is great ,and clippings are chopped very fine.Try a reg lift and a gator on top,works best for me,Mine cant pull a hi-lift/gator,to much load.Good luck

JLC
03-09-2001, 07:31 PM
John,

Thanks for the input. I'll have to buy a set of Gators for the machine and see how it works. I'm hoping this will solve some of my clumping issues. I don't know if you have the standard deck or not but for some reason mine leaves a nice trail right along the right drive wheel when the grass is the slightest bit long or wet. Doesn't matter how clean the deck is. I swear the mower didn't do this when I demoed it or I would never have bought it. I also don't know what it is about the Scag that makes it run out of power sooo quickly when it encounters the slightest load. I've demoed others and they don't bog at all really. The only difference I can note is the mule drive on other brands compared with Scags driveshaft. Not happy with it, but have to live with it through at least the first part of this season. Scag dealer is local, but when it comes to a new machine I'd rather drive an hour to get an Exmark.

Just a little ranting, oh well,

Ben

Evan528
03-09-2001, 08:51 PM
I have noticed the same grass trail with scags I have used! Its almost like the grass is getting caught on the edge of the discharge opening and in result not dispercing it far. scag decks need some help!

Jerrys Lawn Service
03-09-2001, 10:03 PM
JLC, We ran doubles on our Scag TT last season with no power problems. One thing we did do is run 93 octane as AWM stated. We plan on running them this season also.If you have any questions feel free to E-MAIL us at jerryslawnservice@home.com
Good Luck!

John DiMartino
03-09-2001, 10:19 PM
JLC-i have a Dixie Chopper-the deck cuts pretty good when its dry,now that its pitched right.my biggest problem is clogging and blowout the from of the deck.Clumps never ever are a problem with the Dixie,unless you let the deck load up,but the motor will stall if you try to keep cutting,so you cant run with it plugged anyway.

rdh
03-09-2001, 11:08 PM
turfguy33
i have a dane and it was worse with one blade.it would clug up if you didnt go slow.the dbl blades help it .
i can go as fast as it will go now.
there seem to be more air coming out from under the deck
it trows the grass out farther never clugs like it used to
i would say if dbl blades didnt improve your freinds dane
he may have a blown head gasket or he just didnt put them in a cross or a x form.
iv used dbls and so has others and i dont think you can find any one has had spendle problems from dbls .
you dont have to buy a dixie to use dbls.

turfguy33
03-10-2001, 07:39 PM
I never had a problem really with my dane....Last season, I had the regular gators under it, and if the grass was tall or wet, it seemed like the grass wasn't discharging fast enough, so I would have to slow down, or I would stall. The new magnum gators that I mentioned earlier should solve this problem. 40% higher lift, 25%thicker and they are suppose to discharge faster.......When I can run them, I'll let ya'll know how they do.
I have a turf tiger with the advantage deck.......I really cant'see the advantage of it at all....I tried to order some gators for it last year, and found out that I couldn't put gators on it, or at least that's what my dealer said. But as far as the deck, I can't see any difference in the quality of cut between my dane or the scag.

Stonewall
03-10-2001, 11:50 PM
Does anybody have a chart that shows the different blade tip speeds for various mowers? My dealer said that most mowers approach about the same blade tip speed allowed by federal safety regulations.

turfguy33
03-11-2001, 02:01 PM
Stonewall, Just about all commercial mowers have the same or about the same blade tip speed. According to the federal regulations, the blade tip speed must be below 19,000. The dixie chopper is the only machine that I'm aware of that does not go by the rule.........They run at 19,800 standard,

Stonewall
03-12-2001, 11:01 AM
How does Dixie Chopper get by the federal regs?

John DiMartino
03-12-2001, 11:15 AM
I still wonder how Dixie chopper meets OSHA standards with the lack of a chute-they tell you to mow with the OCDC down-yeah right,Im not complaining ,but no one mows with it down.The seat safety is a joke too,by the time those blades spin down from that high speed(3800)&10+ mph you could have mowed another 50 ft,then it deisels and continues to run on compression igniton for another good 5 seconds when it s hot.If the operator fell off at 10 mph,he would get run over for sure,and those blades are still going fast by then.I dont like electric clutches much,but I think its time they put one on for safety ,and so you dont have to shut it off to pick up a piece of paper on the ground.

HOMER
03-12-2001, 12:46 PM
John,

All you ever do is complain about a decision YOU made in purchasing your Chopper. Why don.t you sell the machine and quit knocking it around. Every post concerning a Chopper that you make its just bash-bash-bash! There are other mowers out there, cut your losses and get rid of it!

Stinky
03-12-2001, 12:55 PM
anyone run doubles on Toro Z Master 62"? Never heard of doubles til I started looking here. You guys are a great source of info.

John DiMartino
03-12-2001, 01:06 PM
Homer-dont take your frustrations out on me-I guess you still didnt get paid from the deadbeats.Right in my post I wrote Im not complaining-if you didnt see it.I leased my DC for 3 yrs-It is not mine to sell until until 3 yrs-at that time i have the option of buing it for $1.Then i will buy it,and more than likely keep it,since that was my original intention.I have fixed almost all the problems on it,and I am for the most part happy with it.I bought it because I wanted it,and I keep things a long time.Im not cutting my losses ,the only way i will lose is if i sell it now-and pay the penalty.

HOMER
03-12-2001, 01:30 PM
By looking at your web site and seeing the quality of the work there I would say, if thats what you used, that your Chopper is doing an excellent job.............wouldn.t you?

Everything you buy will have its quirks, I know guys that have Lazers that replace spindle bearings all the time, knew one that had a deck he never could get adjusted, dealer nor Exmark would help him with it either. Know a guy with a John Deere that couldnt get his to cut Bermuda worth a shick. Point is: to continually bash a product, even if you own it, is counter-productive. If you can make a better mouse trap then by all means make it. If you have the bugs worked out then all is well in DiMartino ville!

P.S. No frustration here, not over the $100.00 anyway!:D

Eric ELM
03-12-2001, 02:28 PM
Originally posted by Stinky
anyone run doubles on Toro Z Master 62"? Never heard of doubles til I started looking here. You guys are a great source of info.

Stinky: Phewwww, Just kidding, neat name :D

I think most members here are running double blades. I think yours has a cradle for the blades. What Toro guys are doing is putting on a blade on top in the cradle then a big flat washer to get the bottom blade down below the cradle, put them in a + possition and then torque them down to specifications. You may need longer spindle bolts.

lawnguy ny
03-30-2001, 06:41 PM
CAN SOMEONE TELL ME IF MY DANE RUNS 16.5 5/8 HI LIFT REG BLADES .IF I COULD RUN GATORS THE SAME SIZE .THE LANDSCAPER SUPPLIES CATALOG SHOW REGULAR BLADRS BUIT SEAMS LIKE IT SHOULDT NOT GATORS. I GUESS WHAT I M ASKING IS IF THE BLADE IS THE SAME SIZE CAN I USE IT????//////

pfisdon
03-30-2001, 07:17 PM
I have run double blades on a Turf Tiger 61"/advantage deck/22hp liquid-cooled Kawasaki since day one last season and never had any problems. The Scag deck chute is too small to disperse wet or tall clippings,where the Dixie Chopper chute is completely open for better dispersal. The Dixie is not OSHA standard.
"SCAG DEALER" What price do you have on that 27hp Turf Tiger?
Yes,there are Gator Blades for the 61" deck.

Evan528
03-30-2001, 08:22 PM
How is Dixie chopper getting away with not following osha's guide lines?