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sniggly
08-11-2005, 10:21 PM
Need some help on this one folks. Attached are some pics, the first being of the backyard (mostly). It was taken to show how much canopy exists above the turf. The pics following in succession are merely closer, closer closer....you get the idea. Please take notice of the location of the damaged area in relation to the rest of the turf and canopy. Lack of sunlight?

I am at a loss here. The area in question is not visually symptomatic of any turf harming event, other than a very small amount of grey leaf spot. Certainly not enough to cause this kind of damage. Soil test's (2) don't reveal anything that would be contributory to this either. Latest fert app was on 7/12/05, 8-2-16 50%PPSCU 6FE 2MN 1MG W/TALSTAR.

Turf type is Palmetto (an improved variety of St. Augustine that is supposed to be shade tolerant). Per the customer installation was done approximately 7 months ago (I took a contract on it last month).

Turf does not pull up, indicating to me the install was done half way decently.

sniggly
08-12-2005, 07:35 AM
Oh COME ON guys!.........no takers yet?

ProLawns
08-12-2005, 08:32 AM
Its a fungus. I can see spots on some of the blades that are being attacked. We have that problem with fescue but not our St. Augustine.

Ric
08-12-2005, 10:56 AM
Sniggly

I think you need to contact Cheryl. :D


Just want to check, but is what I am seeing a straight line in the turf??? I know of no fungus that spreads in a narrow straight line. Chemical damage or burn can in fact look very much like fungus. My thinking is that this is some kind of spill. Could in fact a mower, of dropped something as it drove over it in that straight line.

Ric
08-12-2005, 11:13 AM
Sniggly

I think you need to contact Cheryl. :D


Just want to check, but is what I am seeing a straight line in the turf??? I know of no fungus that spreads in a narrow straight line. Chemical damage or burn can in fact look very much like fungus. My thinking is that this is some kind of spill. Could in fact a mower, of dropped something as it drove over it in that straight line.


Sniggly

I talked to Cheryl and she suggests that some thing long a slender might of been Layed on the turf for several days.:D

Greg Amann
08-12-2005, 05:21 PM
You didn't apply any Speedzone did you?

We had problems with it when it first came out when the label said safe to apply up to 90 degrees.

Looks alot like that.

I don't see enough gray leafspot on the blades that would justify that amount of melted off blades.

We had several customers call last week with brown areas with streaks in the turf. When you get rain every afternoon and then go a week with none and temps. in the mid 90's, drought stressed areas show up. And then run a heavy mower over it and it causes mechanical damage that then stripes the turf.
They think they have a disease that is being dragged by the mower.

FYI The sago in the bottom right of the first picture has a manganese deficiency.

sniggly
08-12-2005, 06:16 PM
Yeah...people chimed in. That's what I'm looking for....but we are still missing the mark.

No post emergent selective's labeled for turf (or otherwise) have been applied. I have had a solid week to think about this....and am stumped. Like I said before in the original post, this area isn't really visually symptomatic of any turf destroying event I am familiar with.

It's been slow happening and my guess, and I emphasis guess, is there is simply not enough sunlight hitting this spot to support growth rates like you see on the rest of the turf in that area. I attached another picture.

There may have been a fungus of some sort there prior to my taking the account but not now.

Tell me what you think of this: I am not in the habit of making everyone think I know everything, consequently I have told the customer I am not sure I can diagnose this. I think I am going to get out the pole hedger and cut the canopy out of that bamboo (first pic up at top of thread) you see hanging over that part of the turf and see what happens.

Whattayathink?

Where's tremor and some of the other older posters that used to be here?

Hey Ric - Tell Cheryl if she has been laying on my lawns I'm gonna start carrying around a camera!!! That'll be fun! Tell ol girl I said hey and hope she is doing good. :waving:

lawnservice
08-12-2005, 06:49 PM
Turf type is Palmetto (an improved variety of St. Augustine that is supposed to be shade tolerant). Per the customer installation was done approximately 7 months ago (I took a contract on it last month).

Turf does not pull up, indicating to me the install was done half way decently.
excuse this ignorant yankee...but was this installation of palmetto (which i know nothing about) sod??

that last picture definately shows straight lines as Ric had mentioned

sniggly
08-12-2005, 07:10 PM
Yup...it's sod. Down here you can get several different varieties of St. Augustine grasses, often referred to as 'improved' varieties. The problem, or atleast rumored problem, with some of the shade tolerant varities is they are no longer shade tolerant becuase they are cultivated/grown in full sun. :dizzy:

Here's the kicker though, the leaf blades on the shade tolerant varieties, for the most part, are thinner (not as wide), as a full sun variety (like Floratam).

Who knows - certainly not me.

sniggly
08-12-2005, 07:12 PM
By the way - the line you see in the last pic posted is the edge of the sod install. My one beef with the person or company that installed it is that they just layed it on top of the ground without any effort being given to leveling with the rest of the turf. It's not that bad, the mower doesn't scalp it if you make the pass with one side on and one side off.

RedEarthLab
08-12-2005, 07:13 PM
It would be helpful to see the results of tissue and soil test from good areas and bad areas but I'll give my input from just the pictures. It looks like the sod may have been cut to thin along the necrotic strips. This would mean the roots were cut away as well and would show a definite line like we see hear. It seems to just now be recovering by looking at the green shoots. I am assuming this was a sob installation around 7 months ago.

Ric
08-12-2005, 09:40 PM
Sniggly

Ah, a little more information is coming to light. How long ago was this sod layed?? The fact you feel it was a bad installation, leads me to believe this section's roots didn't take real good and may be in decline, because of a bad install. If this is the case it will fill back in given enough time and care.

Pictures are great and help. but they don't tell the whole story. Milorganite will help a grow in more than any thing else I have found. However it lacks the P & K and I supplement those elements.

RedEarthLab
08-12-2005, 09:51 PM
I agree, get some phosphate on there to enhance root growth and speed up establishment. You may even consider cutting out that patch and put down a new strip of sod with about 1/2 cup of 10-20-10.

grassguy_
08-12-2005, 09:58 PM
I would have to agree that it seems the sodding was done rather poorly to establish itself, but i'm more familiar with the cool season varieties than most warm season grasses. I also know that if you don't boost with the phosphorus when trying to initially install then you're looking at a fight for the root system to get established. Your first pic seems as though the dying strip is nearly in direct line with the dripline of the shrubbery along the back, is this the case? Were any applications done to the shrubbery recently? just a thought! Seems from the close ups that the grass is fighting to stay established and as Ric indicated would be a good opportunity for working some milorganite into the area to give a good slow feeding along with adding some potassium.

lawnservice
08-13-2005, 12:27 PM
excuse this ignorant yankee...but was this installation of palmetto (which i know nothing about) sod??

that last picture definately shows straight lines as Ric had mentioned
in new england we deal with k. blue grass sod. here we would aerate, feed and water and that should fix the situation (probably would braodcast some seed after the aeration as well)

anyway, your turf does seem to be recovering

sheshovel
08-13-2005, 02:05 PM
I think somebody laid something on the lawn and won't reveal that fact to you.Somebody laid something on the lawn to clean it or dry it out or look at it or whatever.
and left it there a few days in the heat.Now they won't cop to it.

teeca
08-13-2005, 04:21 PM
have you ruled out insect damage?

ThreeWide
08-14-2005, 10:01 AM
Just agreeing with some of the other opinions here....

It appears that you have a few pieces of sod that didn't root properly.

Greg Amann
08-14-2005, 10:30 AM
After rereading the original post and seeing the sod was laid 7 months ago, I would rule out the sod not taking. Even if it was in poor shape to begin with, seven months is more than enough time to grow that small of an area in.
I think sheshovel in on track in thinking something was laid on the area for an excessive amount of time.

Ric
08-14-2005, 11:35 AM
Sniggly

I talked to Cheryl and she suggests that some thing long a slender might of been Layed on the turf for several days.:D


Greg

Somehow I missed the fact the sod was down for 7 months. BTW Cheryl is an inside joke between Sniggly and myself.

Pictures can not make up 100% for actually seeing the problem and collecting as much information as possible. Therefore I say it is still up for grabs and can be anyones guess. I have posted a few of my guesses.

Green Dreams
08-14-2005, 01:09 PM
Whatever it was...its got new growth and looks like its coming back. Whatever it was is gone. Grey leaf spot can cause that melting out. Pics maake it difficult, but we could argue old chinchie damage too.

sniggly
08-14-2005, 11:35 PM
Just got back from Maggie Valley tonight and see that the fine folks of Lawnsite kicked it up a notch.

A hearty Thank You and handshake to each of you. I appreciate the input. Oh...don't forget the beer!... :p

Looks like we need to move from the diagnosing stage to the fix it stage. Thanks again. If something crazy happens or I discover something not previously known I'll post a follow up.

:waving:

goforgreen2
08-15-2005, 12:07 AM
it looks like a fungus melt back

Ric
08-15-2005, 10:31 AM
it looks like a fungus melt back


Goforgreen

It looks like it could be any number of things. But I think if it is not spreading, the question now is recovery.

I have had cases where I never knew what the reason for a decline was. The Turf recovered and all is well now. On our Florida Calcareous sandy soil, Milorganite has worked well for me on grow in. But I supplement it with P & K as well.

olive123
08-15-2005, 07:54 PM
in south fla i have seen a lot of problems with palmetto initiall taking then months later petering out. I know palmetto needs a lot of water for establishment. It seems like there is something it doesnt like such as alkeline soils or something.

Ric
08-15-2005, 08:55 PM
in south fla i have seen a lot of problems with palmetto initiall taking then months later petering out. I know palmetto needs a lot of water for establishment. It seems like there is something it doesnt like such as alkeline soils or something.


Olive

I have very little experience with Palmetto and Like Bitter Blue for it deep color and great cold and shade tolerant. I find It is extremely hard to tell the difference between Bitter Blue and Floratan. I will use both in the same yard and install Bitter Blue in shade areas. BTW Bitter Blue does cost more.

However I beleive in the older sections of Ft Liquiordale you have a lot of Seville and I really like Seville. Seville went out of favor when Floratan became the big Chinch Bug resistant turf. However Floratan is no longer chinch bug resistant. I am not sure which reverted the chinch or the turf. But I do believe it was the Floratan.

sniggly
08-16-2005, 08:14 AM
How long will Milorganite last?

Ric
08-16-2005, 08:51 AM
How long will Milorganite last?


Sniggly

6 to 8 weeks is about all for grow in.

sniggly
08-16-2005, 08:57 PM
Listen to this..... :angry: :angry: :angry:

Today I met with the client and explained that any number is things could have caused the damage seen in the photos. At this point the only thing gleaned from continued conversation is only theory at best, so we might as well move to solving the problem.

I explained that to best tackle the problem we needed more sunlight (trim the canopy of that bamboo away $$), and supplement the feeding with more specific nutrients (didn't get into the specifics because she didn't ask).

She then asked what some of the theory's were and the first thing I hit her with was she layed something on the turf and left it there for a while. Of course she denied it vehemently. I then relayed all the others....

THEN SHE HITS ME WITH IT......"You know...there used to be a huge deck here....and when they layed the sod it was on the ground for about a month...and these holes started showing up....so they came back out and pulled the sod up...filled in the holes....and put the sod back over it"

:angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:

I swear on my mother's grave, and she ain't dead yet, I asked this woman every question in the book, saving the circumference of her big toe, that could have had anything to do with what happened to the sod before I took the contract.

Holes under the sod? Gimme a break! All sorts of things like WARM, DARK, HUMID places.....

I had to vent here.....not in front of her. Not professional. She may very well have truly just forgotten it.

Oh well......I get to charge her to fix it! payup payup payup

Ric
08-16-2005, 09:33 PM
Sniggly

Ah, a little more information is coming to light. How long ago was this sod layed?? The fact you feel it was a bad installation, leads me to believe this section's roots didn't take real good and may be in decline, because of a bad install. If this is the case it will fill back in given enough time and care.

Pictures are great and help. but they don't tell the whole story. Milorganite will help a grow in more than any thing else I have found. However it lacks the P & K and I supplement those elements.

Sniggly

Might not of been my FIRST guess, But it was one of many of my guesses. Glad you found out it wasn't anything you did. I now want to believe she didn't water enough after the sod was re-installed.