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DFW Area Landscaper
08-13-2005, 04:47 PM
Is it just me, or are others perturbed by this as well?

There is no way in the world that after three years in the business anyone who lives within five houses of me in either direction wouldn't know that I'm in the business. They would have to be blind and stupid not to notice.

I am very deliberate about not keeping any signs or trailers or equipment parked around my house, so I know they are not upset becuase the "dirty contractor" lives a few houses down. If you drive down my street 99% of the time there is nothing around my house that would lead anyone to believe I'm a "dirty contractor". But the crews check in and out every morning and night and they are there enough for neighbors to know I'm in the business.

Yet, these people, with the exception of my next door neighbors and two homes directly across the street from me, are hiring competitors to mow their lawns. Out of the 10 homes across the street from me and 10 homes on my side of the street, I'd guess 12 are using a service and 8 are doing it themselves. Of the 12 who contract out, I've got two.

It just drives me nuts. I know I have lawns right down the street from one of my competitors. In fact, I have a bunch of lawns on his block. But I am perplexed by these people. I know if it were me, and if I were in the market to hire a contractor and I knew that someone just a few houses down from me was in the business, I would hire them. At least I think I would.

Are others as frustrated by this as me?

I just don't get it.

Later,
DFW Area Landscaper

RedWingsDet
08-13-2005, 05:00 PM
Well... There is 3 landscapers on my block. One landscaper doesnt cut anyhouses around here. I cut 7 on my block. And the other guy cuts ALOT. I think he has like 60 just in like 5 blocks. So if someone on the block doesnt get me, its the guy with 60 accounts. Hopefully I'll have more then the other guy in a few years. LOL

nobagger
08-13-2005, 05:03 PM
DFW I feel your pain (in the head) I lost a pretty big landscaping job (well big for us) by way of friends of the family thought I was too busy to do the job, can you bleive that! I asked them roughly how much $1450.00 for 5yrds of mulch and 2 shrubs planted and aprox 200ish feet of new edges around the beds. OUCH!! They asked me how much I would have done this for so I told them, about $800.00 tops with a friends and family discount. I loved his expression after that! I told him to call me next time.

My next door neighbor definetly I own a LCO but instead he has a guy who lives up the street 4 houses who has no insurance etc. do it for 20 bucks a pop and it turns out looking like a typical home owner job. Oh well. ;)

SHOWCASE LAWNS LLC
08-13-2005, 05:06 PM
some people are smart enough to know that doing business with a neighbor can be the worst thing you will ever do. if the situation goes bad you could end up with an enemy for life..........i think the old addage goes something like ...dont s**t where you eat vice versa dont eat where you s**t !!!! it may drive you nuts but at least you are on good terms with the neighbors

mcwlandscaping
08-13-2005, 05:28 PM
I wouldn't want to do business with a neighbor that i know really well. They will think that they deserve some special price or extra service just because we know each other well. And if they are close by, they are in a prime position to give me hell over some small thing i may have missed. Just my 2 cents!

DFW Area Landscaper
08-13-2005, 05:56 PM
No one on my street knows their neighbors. That's just the way it is in my neigborhood. Everyone knows the neighbors directly next door and across the street and that is pretty much where it stops in the DFW area. Once you get into the $300K homes people seem to know their neighbors a lot better. But in the middle class no one knows their neighbors.

As for relationships going south, I understand your point a litte bit. But the home owners do realize it's just lawn mowing. You don't have to be a brain surgeon to do this. Its either gonna be my hispanic laborers or someone elses. I just can't figure out why they won't do business with a nearby neighbor instead of a total stranger.

The thing that prompted this thread was I noticed the guy who lives two doors down from me across the street just hired a competitor. He came over and asked me how much to mow his lawn about a month ago. He was very clear that he only wanted it done one time. It had been fertilized heavy, very dark green and it hadn't been mowed in at least a month. He asked me how much and I said I would charge by the hour for that one and estimated $60 or $70 on a one time. He politely thanked me for the price and returned to his house. I saw him out there with his wife about five days later. The two of them worked for at least two hours and it looked like schit when they were finished. Then today one of my competitors shows up to mow his lawn. I assume he is on a regular schedule with them.

Oh well. The guy never asked me for a price to do it on a regular basis. I just think it would be "neighborly" to hire a contractor who lives just a few doors down if you are in the market for a service but it doesn't work that way at all in this area. I guess they want us to cold call them for their busines....something I refuse to consider.

Later,
DFW Area Landscaper

rodfather
08-13-2005, 06:02 PM
I wouldn't take it personally. People are just weird sometimes...neighbors, friends, family, you name it.

DFW Area Landscaper
08-13-2005, 06:07 PM
I just walked outside and inventoried the situation that I am aware of.

Of the 17 houses within four doors of my house in either direction, 13 of them hire a contractor for a service I offer...either weed control or mowing. My next door neighbor uses me for weed control and my neighbor across the street uses me for mowing. I have two of the 13.

Right or wrong, it frustrates the hell out of me. Really pisses me off. I understand if the home owner has been using the same contractor since before I entered the business. But that is not the case with any of them. Every competitor who is working on one of those 11 homes was hired long after I entered the business.

I just think these people are incosiderate azzholes. That's my opinion and I'm entitled to it.

Later,
DFW Area Landscaper

rodfather
08-13-2005, 06:11 PM
I just walked outside and inventoried the situation that I am aware of.

Of the 17 houses within four doors of my house in either direction, 13 of them hire a contractor for a service I offer...either weed control or mowing. My next door neighbor uses me for weed control and my neighbor across the street uses me for mowing. I have two of the 13.

Right or wrong, it frustrates the hell out of me. Really pisses me off.

Later,
DFW Area Landscaper

Are you absolutely 100% certain these 13 neighbors of your's know all about you and what you have to offer?

rodfather
08-13-2005, 06:14 PM
I'm in this 11 years full time and I still hear, "really, you do that do too?" Something doesn't add up for ya though IMO.

TLM
08-13-2005, 06:22 PM
As a rule, I do not work for ANY of my neighbors or for the 178 homeowners in my hood.
I give advice but, no more than that.

DFW Area Landscaper
08-13-2005, 06:29 PM
++++Are you absolutely 100% certain these 13 neighbors of your's know all about you and what you have to offer?++++

If they don't know I'm in the business they are blind and stupid. My personal truck has a GIANT sign on the side of it with my logo and phone number. I have a 50 gallon spray rig in the bed of it. There is no way they never see me as I am driving up and down the street or alley. Plus, I've got three crews who are constantly checking in twice a day M-F.

They'd have to be blind not to know I'm in the business.

How can they not notice this checking in at my house, twice a day, five days a week...three crews?

Later,
DFW Area Landscaper

HoffmanLawnCare
08-13-2005, 06:40 PM
who knows what get through some neigbors minds. i have a neighbor i had been cutting for a few years who always loved my work. this year she calls me saying that her cousin was going to do it and she didn't need me. a week later theres another lawn company over there cutting, i'm like WTF. the only thing i could think is shes like 90 and doesn't know any better....

DFW Area Landscaper
08-13-2005, 06:59 PM
I guess there are four possible reasons they are not hiring me.

1. They know I'm in the business and they decided not to hire me for fear that I would do schitty work (even though my lawn is the nicest one in the area) and they don't want to have to fire an acquaintance.

OR

2. They know I am in the business and they still hire a competitor because they just aren't very neighborly. In other words, they are a-holes.

OR

3. Somehow, depsite my crews checking in all week long and trailers being parked in front while they change oil and sharpen blades...despite the bilboard sized signs on the trucks and trailers....despite the spray rig in the back of my personal truck...despite all that...they just didn't realize I was in the business.

OR

4. They just don't like me, even though they have absolutely no reason to like or dislike me because I've never spoken to most of them.

I don't know. I think it's #2.

Later,
DFW Area Landscaper

trying 2b organic
08-13-2005, 07:20 PM
It usually comes down to this -- Some people want to hire someone they can treat like crap and fire at will. No leftover tension if its a stranger.

The nice folks will call you, the less nice will purposefully hire a stranger. I do work for a few on my street. I make it a point to make sure thier lawns are nicer than the ones who hire a competitor. :waving:

DFW Area Landscaper
08-13-2005, 07:31 PM
Maybe reason #1 is their reason.

From my perspective, and I'm entitled to an opinion, it's reason #2. They're a bunch of a-holes.

Later,
DFW Area Landscaper

mbella
08-13-2005, 07:49 PM
I'm suprised you're so upset by this. It sounds like you're taking it personally.

It could be that many of your neighbors, like me, don't like to mix personal relationships with business. I did it once, and I will never do it again.

HOOLIE
08-13-2005, 07:50 PM
Maybe you should hold a block party DFW, some burgers and dogs, meet the neighbors...

Most likely explanation, if I were a neighbor of an LCO, I'd be worried that IF something didn't go right, I'd have to fire the LCO and then constantly see them, day in and day out.

I have quite a few in my 'hood, but none on my own street.

DFW Area Landscaper
08-13-2005, 08:09 PM
Maybe I shouldn't be pizzed about it, but I am. Can't change it. That's just the way I'm programmed.

Maybe it's a "Larry David" thing with me. But I think its terrible manners to hire a competitor when you have a guy living just a few doors down who sells the same thing and you know it. I think it's just rude.

Later,
DFW Area Landscaper

DFW Area Landscaper
08-13-2005, 08:33 PM
Besides, if the neighbors are so worried about having to fire me because I might be incompetent at what I do for a living, and they don't want to have to see the guy they fired for the rest of their lives...

What about the guy they never even gave a chance who is living just a few doors down from them who is trying to feed his family who is even more pissed about not having been given a chance and all the while they are doing business with a competitor????

What about that angle on this????

I mean, they are worried about a bad relationship because they had to fire me. But what I guess they aren't realizing is that they are getting a bad relationship because they didn't hire me and they hired a competitor.

Again, I conclude, these people are simply a bunch of ass holes.

Later,
DFW Area Landscaper

topsites
08-13-2005, 08:48 PM
As a rule, I do not work for ANY of my neighbors or for the 178 homeowners in my hood.
I give advice but, no more than that.

I'm with you, I don't need hassle in my hood and around here, everybody pretty much keeps to themselves and that's fine by me. It IS funny from time to time another guy shows up and it will be someone I've met before and we'll end up talking, lol. But no, it don't frustrate me one bit, I am impartial about the fact they called someone else, it just don't matter to me and I like the anonimity factor behind it.

I had a friend it used to bother the crap out of him but then when someone WOULD hire him (because he'd get so mad he'd talk for DAYS about it), then of course they'd expect a slight discount (like 10%) but my friend wouldn't discount them not even 5 bucks and I thought that was just wrong, too ...

So I mean go figure all that hassle, I'm just as well the way it is.

Roger
08-13-2005, 09:51 PM
Again, I conclude, these people are simply a bunch of ass holes.



With this kind of attitude toward your neighbors, I think you've answered your own question why they don't hire you.

I doubt many of us would want to enter into a business relationship with another, such as a dealer, supplier, etc, if we knew they felt this way about us.

DFW Area Landscaper
08-13-2005, 10:01 PM
Roger,

There is no way in hell these people know how I feel.

Later,
DFW Area Landscaper

wbw
08-13-2005, 10:07 PM
If you just knock on their doors, introduce yourself and ask for it.

BTW I hope your plan is working for you this year. How about an update.



Right or wrong, it frustrates the hell out of me. Really pisses me off. I understand if the home owner has been using the same contractor since before I entered the business. But that is not the case with any of them. Every competitor who is working on one of those 11 homes was hired long after I entered the business.

I just think these people are incosiderate azzholes. That's my opinion and I'm entitled to it.

Later,
DFW Area Landscaper

DFW Area Landscaper
08-13-2005, 10:33 PM
wbw,

Thanks for asking. Since the first of the year, I've signed up 242 new customers, lost 59 and the total customer count currently stands at 238 on the year. I just hit break even last week. But a lot is dropping to the bottom line each week. I've just had a tremendous amount of operating expenses this year. You know, things like signs for trucks, uniforms, blowers, line trimmers, etc. Stuff like that. Operating expenses that I won't have to pay for every year (hopefully).

I won't make much this year and I am promising myself its a next year thing once again.

Later,
DFW Area Landscaper

wbw
08-13-2005, 11:07 PM
wbw,

Thanks for asking. Since the first of the year, I've signed up 242 new customers, lost 59 and the total customer count currently stands at 238 on the year. I just hit break even last week. But a lot is dropping to the bottom line each week. I've just had a tremendous amount of operating expenses this year. You know, things like signs for trucks, uniforms, blowers, line trimmers, etc. Stuff like that. Operating expenses that I won't have to pay for every year (hopefully).

I won't make much this year and I am promising myself its a next year thing once again.

Later,
DFW Area Landscaper

If you have hit break even and still have 3 months left you might be surprised at how well the year turns out. I'm guessing that with your level of equipment and staff you have excess capacity...sounds very promising for next year. Best of luck and keep us posted.

leadarrows
08-13-2005, 11:15 PM
I may have found the problem. How many other clients that you have can you say this about?
4. They just don't like me, even though they have absolutely no reason to like or dislike me because "I've never spoken to most of them."

RonB
08-13-2005, 11:36 PM
If you want the business from the neighbors .. while you are expecting something from them (their business), maybe they expect something from you, like a neighbors discount.

That would be the neighborly thing to do.

ALarsh
08-13-2005, 11:55 PM
There are 6 houses on my street. 4 of them are cut by a service. I do 2, one of my competitor does 2 and the other 2 are cut by homeowners. I'm not pissed. You take some and lose some. You don't have a right to do business with them just because you are neighbors.

Mancinioldhorse
08-14-2005, 12:06 AM
If I were your neighbor i wouldn't hire you either....I don't work for friends, relatives, or neighbors. I have in the past when I first started but learned fast...lost a good friend from it, and got stiffed by a shirtsleeve relative, (believe it or not) :dizzy: and just decided I have to live around my neigbors...I don't want to make any of em mad or have them make me mad...and it works out great!

Although I got a lot of help from some friends doing landscape construction/install jobs for them....The loss of a very good friend over paying for the job when finished, (even though he loved the end result he thought he could just pay as much/little and whenever he wanted) taught me a lesson...as previously posted....don't **** sh!# where you eat, and don't eat where you sh!#...!!!

topsites
08-14-2005, 12:09 AM
It usually comes down to this -- Some people want to hire someone they can treat like crap and fire at will. No leftover tension if its a stranger.

The nice folks will call you, the less nice will purposefully hire a stranger. I do work for a few on my street. I make it a point to make sure thier lawns are nicer than the ones who hire a competitor. :waving:

Now this also works for us, I prefer strangers as customers so if I have something to say and it isn't very nice or if I feel like walking off the job, I can do so without the neighbors getting down my throat about it.
It's not about being a-hole to me, but it is somewhat along the lines of working for friends / family --- It just doesn't always work out that well.

topsites
08-14-2005, 12:13 AM
wbw,

Thanks for asking. Since the first of the year, I've signed up 242 new customers, lost 59 and the total customer count currently stands at 238 on the year. I just hit break even last week. But a lot is dropping to the bottom line each week. I've just had a tremendous amount of operating expenses this year. You know, things like signs for trucks, uniforms, blowers, line trimmers, etc. Stuff like that. Operating expenses that I won't have to pay for every year (hopefully).

I won't make much this year and I am promising myself its a next year thing once again.

Later,
DFW Area Landscaper

LOL but of course, it will be better next year... I been saying that every year.

Shuter
08-14-2005, 05:42 AM
I do not service any of my neighbors. It is not worth the hassle if there are problems.

pcnservices
08-14-2005, 08:36 AM
I don't do business with neighbors, friends and family. If they need my advice, I'll give it to them - in a professional manner like I would for any of my clients. I also tell them to let me know if they need help. And that's it. I cannot work for love and charity and they will probably expect that. Love and charity dont pay my bills.

Further more we do the good neighbor thing - like share tamatoes out of the garden, cookies, and a beer from time to time.

It don't bother me one bit if they have a different LCO doing their lawn. It gives that LCO an oppurtunity to see what a lawn really should look like when he drives by mine.

DFW, get over it - go to the next neighborhood and take those clients away from the operator working in your neighborhood.

Lake Claire Lawn Ranger
08-14-2005, 08:55 AM
because I've never spoken to most of them.

they just aren't very neighborly. In other words, they are a-holes.
Try looking at this from their point of view. Maybe this is what they think of you.

Also, some of them may not be too crazy about a bunch of guys working on equipment out in the street.

DFW Area Landscaper
08-14-2005, 09:12 AM
I'm telling you, there is no reason for them to either like or dislike me.

As for the crews being a nuisance, that simply isn't the case at all. The trailers might be parked in front of my house for a total of 2 hours per week at the very most.

They have no reason to dislike me but I have good reason to dislike them. That's my opinion after 2.5 years of thought on the situation. And I'm entitled to it. My first year in the business, I was ok with it. But now that I try to see this from their perspective, they ought to expect that I would be a little pissed about it.

I'm actually a little surprised that no other LCO's are frustrated by this as well. I guess I'm the only one who thinks this way.

Later,
DFW Area Landscaper

Lake Claire Lawn Ranger
08-14-2005, 09:35 AM
I'm starting to think that your neighbors know you better than you think and that may be the problem.

MOturkey
08-14-2005, 11:42 AM
DFW, in my opinion, you are using the term "neighbor" in way too broad a sense. To me a real neighbor is someone you have had some contact with, call by name when you meet at Wally World, etc. The fact that you live in proximity to one another may define neighbor on one level, but there is no personal involvement. If it bothered me that people living in my neighborhood were calling competetitors instead of me, then I'd burn a bit of shoe leather, knock on some doors, and introduce myself. Ask their names, tell them where you live, and that if they were ever in need of a lawn service, you would be highly appreciative if they would at least give you a chance to give them a bid, giving them a good firm handshake and a big grin while you are doing so.

Now, it is easy for them to call someone else, because they don't know you at all. Even introducing yourself, and giving them a business card will in some way "put them on the spot" when they do call someone for service. You might even tell them you'd like to have as many properties nearby as possible, and would give some type of neighborhood discount just to get the business.

Now, this might, or might not work, dependent upon a lot of factors, but it is bound to beat sitting in the house and being P.O'd at the neighbors, who probably don't have a clue they have done anything to irritate you. Neill

NickN
08-14-2005, 11:55 AM
I don't think it's you.I think it has to do with "My yard looks the best and I'm using a different contractor than the neighbors".It's the same with landscaping.I've seen 4 different landscaping companies working in one neighborhood this year.All different homes.Honestly,nones work is better is than the other,but price differences are unbelievable.I know of one irrigation install that was over 10k.Price,to me,was becase of ineffeciancy using a walk behind trencher(non dedicated).It took 3 weeks to install this system.One week was for trenching only,that should have taken 2 days tops.Didn't even use sch 40 either.
I've seen areas seeded and landscaped by another company,then another landscape area done by yet another company.All took way too long to do for such small work.
IN the end,I think the homeowners just don't want to use the same landscaper as their neighbor.Just as a "I'm different" attitude.That's good though,because that's means if 5 homeowners want landscaping,5 landscaping companies get the business instead of one getting it all.
I had one neighbor compliment us on a sod install.FIlled in fast and was smooth.He then went on complaining about a sod job he had done this year and how bumpy it was.(He knew I did landscaping)I told him it was probably the sod itself and not the installer.I knew the installer rushed the job and didn't properly prep the base,but I don't like to hear a company badmouth a competitor and I'm not going to do it to what may be a future prospect.
SO,in the end,keep your head up and remember,all those different lcos means that another neighborhood isn't getting the service they need.Target those areas.

DFW Area Landscaper
08-14-2005, 12:00 PM
MoTurkey,

How can they not have a clue that they've done something to irritate me?

Think about it for just a minute. They live three doors down from me and they are hiring a competitor to perform a service that they know I offer.

I agree, outside of the fact that they live close to me, we have no relationship whatsoever.

I am not saying they owe me anything. They owe me nothing.

They'll tip the waiter in a restaurant. They owe him nothing. Yet, they elect to patronize a business they know nothing about as opposed to the small business owner who is right down the street. To me, that's totally classless.

Just my opinion. That's all.

Still intrigued that no one else sides with me on this issue.

Later,
DFW Area Landscaper

MTR
08-14-2005, 12:10 PM
I don't do lawn service in my hood. period. The relationship is very precarious if something goes wrong, they will talk **** about you when they sleep in bed that you did **** ****** job, will talk behind your back, no way in the world would I ask for payment or check about work done or suggested any extra required treatment on my neighbor's lawns....any comment put out understood as 2-edged sword, so uncomfortable, besides can't charge them full price, everything has to be "friendly , neighborly" price thing. It won't pay your bills!!!
Go find a subdivision outside your area is what works and always will.
Don't **** where you eat, don't eat where you **** is the best thing to explain.

MOturkey
08-14-2005, 07:00 PM
DFW, I don't think everyone disagrees with you, I think from most of the replies I've skimmed over, many just don't want to do business with relatives and friends. Heck, if you live in small town America, you do business with relatives and friends or you don't do business.

I am relatively new in this business, but understand the negatives of working with and for acquaintances, but personally, wouldn't turn down my next door neighbor if he asked me to mow for him. In fact just did for mine day before yesterday.

As for your situation, I do understand how you feel, but also believe you are asking others to take a certain action, without being willing to take any action yourself. If you truly want their business, then ask them for it. Just that simple.

The best of luck to you. Neill

HOOLIE
08-14-2005, 08:17 PM
DFW, just a thought, why don't you go talk to your neighbors, and sell your company? Maybe they're wondering why you haven't approached THEM...

Howard Roark
08-14-2005, 08:42 PM
For every moment you spend worrying about this issue, you COULD spend getting equal amounts of business elsewhere. Get over it.

lawnprosteveo
08-15-2005, 01:30 PM
Ive got 3 neighbors that use me on my street. And Ive got about four or five who use another guy...he's a $15/yard guy. Hey, more power to him...Ive got all I need...

sheshovel
08-15-2005, 02:18 PM
I can hear you neighbors now at a bar-B-Q " Hey ya know that guy who has that landscape business down the street?"
"Oh yea the guy who's running his business from his house with those strangers running in and out of the house all day?The one with that white truck that has the huge sign we have to look at no matter what? "Yea, you know the one".
"Well,ya know that guy has lived in this neigborhood for 2 years now and has not so much as waved at me?""
I need some work done but heck he's never even bothered to introduce himself to us".
"I'm not about to go knocking on his door either."
"He's just as much a stranger as calling cold from the phone book"
"Plus it irritates me how he allows all these employees to come into our neigborhood and 3 timed s day at that,those are the kinds of people who would never come around here otherwize.
"I think it's deplorable to have them doing lawnmower maintanence in our street"
."Can't the guy even afford to rent a shop?""He must not be that good if he cant afford a place to run his buainess out of .
"How do we know those employees aren't child molesters,or common criminals?."I think what he's doing is very unneighborly".
"I'm hiring someone else to do my work". "
"Same here I agree what he is doing is tacky and disrupts the peace and quiet we used to enjoy around here berfore HE moved in
".Now what with all those truck doors slamming all day and the grinding noises ,
weedeaters and engines running,and all,how can he NOT see it's disurbing to us?""He must be blind to anything and anybodys feelings but his own".
."He's never introduced himself to us either,he must be an azzzzhole."

sheshovel
08-15-2005, 02:20 PM
No offence intended just showing you the other side of the fence.

topsites
08-15-2005, 02:26 PM
No offence intended just showing you the other side of the fence.

Yeah well around here if you get on your neighbor's nerves too much, they call the county's zoning inspector and she comes out to your place and you got a serious problem due to keeping commercial equipment in a residential zone, you have 30 days to fix it or it's a 1,000 dollar fine.
Yet another reason to keep a LOW profile.

SellOut
08-15-2005, 04:37 PM
he's a $15/yard guy.

Scumbag. I wont be suprised if prices for mowing go WAY up, considering gas prices. These people are KILLING our market.

mbricker
08-15-2005, 04:37 PM
My guess is the main reason an lco is not getting his own neighbors' business: He just hasn't gone to the neighbor and chatted them up, and "By the way, if you ever want a professional lawn service, instead of sweating over the lawn yourself, I would be glad to take the job." Simple, huh.

But imho there are a lot of negatives to working for neighbors, as well as friends, relatives, fellow church members, etc. F'rinstance--you discover the neighbor/customer is a deadbeat slow-pay. Do you think if he's your neighbor, you can just send him the same blunt letter you send the other slow-pay customers?

Lake Claire Lawn Ranger
08-15-2005, 05:26 PM
I can hear you neighbors now at a bar-B-Q " ...
Dat's what I'm talkin' 'bout!

There are also the ones that have moved in and wonder why some people have never introduced themselves and welcomed them to the neighborhood and offered to help if they ever needed anything.

jbell113
08-15-2005, 06:49 PM
I have 52 houses in my hood. I have 4 props in there that I mow. There are 3 props in the back that have different LCOs working in each one......I could care less.