PDA

View Full Version : Diesel Walk Behinds


Varsity L&G
08-15-2005, 11:51 PM
Is there such a thing and what are the brands?

Wondering if this would be a good purchase in order to use bio-diesel in the units to cut overhead cost.

Mix a batch over the weekend and be ready to go come Monday.

mcwlandscaping
08-15-2005, 11:54 PM
I have never seen or heard of that in my life. I am interested though. Sounds neat.

FrankenScagMachines
08-16-2005, 01:39 AM
so far as i know, none are made or being planned/discussed. Yeah the bio is sweet. The trouble is, one of the key advantages of a walk behind is low cost, simplicity and light weight. A diesel requires more components, cost alot more, and weighs a good bit more.....

Itsgottobegreen
08-16-2005, 01:43 AM
Well Eric. Guess you should swing by my shop. I bet between the two of us. We can figure out how to mount a diesel motor to a hydro walkbehind. :D

Varsity L&G
08-16-2005, 02:06 AM
so far as i know, none are made or being planned/discussed. Yeah the bio is sweet. The trouble is, one of the key advantages of a walk behind is low cost, simplicity and light weight. A diesel requires more components, cost alot more, and weighs a good bit more.....

and last ALOT longer

FrankenScagMachines
08-16-2005, 02:57 AM
itsgottobegreen- yeah lets do that sometime, only lets put it on my Lazer instead ;)

IMHO if you're going to have something that heavy and expensive with that much power, it may as well have a seat.... why would you pay $10k for a machine you still have to walk behind, and instead of the normal 2k hrs now you have to suffer for 10k hrs! LOL... even with a sulky its still a beating compared to a rider......

iluvscag
08-16-2005, 08:52 AM
I once thought about putting seperate hydro pumps and wheel motors on a 3 wheel SCAG. I then would take the wheel in the back off and use the platform as a proslide sort of thing.Because in 1996 they made a 26 hp Yanmar Diesel unit. :)

Itsgottobegreen
08-16-2005, 01:17 PM
itsgottobegreen- yeah lets do that sometime, only lets put it on my Lazer instead ;)...
Well eXmark makes a diesel lazer. But it sucks on hills and weights too much. I plan on buying a few 60" 322d diesel grasshoppers for next year.

Bunton Guy
08-16-2005, 10:36 PM
I had a Gravely 150 that I mounted a 11hp yanmar diesel on the 36" walk behind.

Albemarle Lawn
08-16-2005, 10:50 PM
Its a 2cyl found in a JD 735 front mower.

Vertical engine, radiator on top. Still, must be a bit heavy, although it is an aluminum block. (prob about 140-150 lbs complete motor).

This would be a good option for a 50" plus walk-behind.


Seems like walk behinds really don't burn much fuel. My 17HP 1cyl gas JD HD75 uses a lot less fuel than my 27 HP air cooled 60" Z.

If you want to burn the diesel to save fuel, I say the trucks, bigger mowers, and your personal car are where to go to save fuel. I bought a diesel E320 CDI and it is a phenomal car.

KB

South Florida Lawns
08-17-2005, 12:31 AM
All my buddies at Caterpillar say that its not good to use in many applications. The owners manual on the new Cummins engines found in Dodges tell you to stay away from that stuff. This is just what I have been told by diesel mechanics, I like to run red diesel in my Chevy anyways.

lwcmattlifter
08-17-2005, 12:39 AM
By red diesel are you referring to off road diesel?

South Florida Lawns
08-17-2005, 12:44 AM
The same stuff in heavy equipment.

S man
08-17-2005, 12:51 AM
I heard they were going to put small 2 cycle diesel engines on 21" lawnboys. I forgot the name but a engine company wanted to make them for mowers. They would be effient and epa certified over other 2 cycles that have been taken out of production.

FrankenScagMachines
08-17-2005, 01:08 AM
Maybe the NEW Cummins don't like bio, but the old diesels do. Bio is proven to be better for an engine because it lubricates better.... I currently run bio from the pump (soybean bio, 100% American crude and refined). Its only 2% soy though. I am going to be looking into the vegetable oil stuff... for that cheap you can't beat it. I have a friend that runs only that in his 1st generation Cummins and that truck will flat roll out (well its been modified but his fuel is not slowing him down any).

sdwally
08-17-2005, 09:59 AM
Interesting thought. However here diesel is $3.09 and Bio-diesel is $3.09. Until bio-diesel is about a $1 less then reg. diesel, I will not even consider. FYI fuel mileage is lower with bio-diesel.

South Florida Lawns
08-17-2005, 11:52 AM
That you would not notice it at all. I have run this in my trucks for a while and its not much better or worse on millage.

Itsgottobegreen
08-17-2005, 01:16 PM
I like to run red diesel in my Chevy anyways.
Do you know thats illegal. :realmad: Red fuel is for off road diesel engines because they don't use the road. So no road taxes. Regular diesel has road taxes. Getting caught with red fuel in your truck is anywhere from $500 to $5000 or impoundment of your truck and anything its towing. Depends on where you are.

FrankenScagMachines
08-17-2005, 05:41 PM
Interesting thought.
FYI fuel mileage is lower with bio-diesel.

FYI, my fuel mileage stays exactly the same with bio as regular. I've been told it will slightly increase it. Maybe it does in certain vehicles. In mine it stayed the same. I keep a fuel mileage log on my laptop. I fill up every tank and always record: date, gallons input, miles on trip odometer, miles on regular odometer, resulting MPG figure, price per gallon, total price of the fillup, which station I bought the fuel at (and if it was regular or bio) and even my form of payment. Sounds a little bit more than you need to do to keep track of your fuel but I wouldn't do it any other way. I don't run bio in every tank, mostly because its an inconvenience to go across town to the place that sells it. however I have run it several tanks in a row and switched back and forth between bio and regular. I've noticed no difference in fuel mileage at all....

I hope you did real-life testing before posting your comments on that "fuel mileage is lower" thing...... I did my homework... Actually i don't think you've ever even tried it, because you had said you wouldn't even consider using it until it was $1 cheaper.... Since you don't know what you're talking about shut up and learn... Sorry to sound rude but I can't stand when others get confused because ignorant people spout off their mouth when they have no clue.

"I won't buy bio until its a dollar cheaper"- why do you say that? Bio is worth a dollar more (at least the stuff I buy) because its 100% American crude oil and refined in the states. We don't need no towel-heads controlling our fuel anymore than they already do. This is one simple easy step you can take to vote independance from foreign oil terrorists. Plus, bio lubricates your engine better. Sometimes I don't buy it because the price difference is significant (other times its cheaper here, depends when the regular price changes, the bio remains constant). But truly it is worth more to any half way patriotic and level headed American.
Bio will not be cheaper for a long time. It costs more to make as the process is much more involved. The government is working to reduce the cost of it, by donating money to the efforts of producing bio fuel. I understand that they are going to keep funding the project until bio is a little cheaper than regular fuel, so everyone switches to bio, then cut off regular diesel all together. Whether that plan works out or not we have yet to see. I hope it works. Of course our price probably will increase when the government drops the funding after bio is king, but we shall see..... Maybe with that much bio being sold the prices can be decreased as they make it up in volume.

HK45Mark23
08-17-2005, 06:35 PM
The red is a dye there is nothing different about the fuel other than the color. Well and the fact you will get in trouble if caught with it in your tank if on the road.

lwcmattlifter
08-17-2005, 06:52 PM
Do you know thats illegal.
That's what I was hinting at.


There is a fuel station near me that sells a bio diesel. I have run many tanks of that stuff through my engine and it gets the same mileage as 100% diesel. Frankenscagmachines is dead on about bio being the better fuel for engines. Do some research and you will see. In this area bio is about 10 cents cheaper than regular diesel. If i'm not mistaken, the first diesel designed to run on peanut oil.

sdwally
08-18-2005, 01:45 PM
I able to admit, when I make a mistake. I went back and researched again, as previously done a few years back when became first available. You are correct that performance is about the same, however, fosil diesel still has a higher energy content then bio diesel. Diesel rated at 42.6-45.0MJ/kg Bio-Diesel rated at 39.6-41.8MJ/kg Which in the case results in vary little difference since the C-tane rating for bio-diesel is slightly higher by about 4 points.
One negative point is that the bio-diesel does create considerable higher particulate pollution that promotes ozone formation, more waste, and cause more eutrophication(type of water pollution). Also with vehicle manufactured pre mid 1990s, bio-diesel can dissolve certain types of rubber parts such as fuel lines and seals.
And I also found sites where they offer supplies and information on producing your own bio-diesel fuel in your garage. Thought it was quite interesting that home brew bio-diesel can cost as little as $0.50/gallon to brew. However they did mention that you will have to file paperwork to pay for road taxes on the fuel you brew yourself if using for on road vehicles.
And yes I agree we should buy american fuels that do not rely on other countries to supply us with crude oil. However until the US quits shipping most of the crude produced in Alaska to other countries, there is not much the US can do to reduce the dependency of foriegn oil.

FLD
08-18-2005, 11:03 PM
We have thought about putting a diesel engine on a WB mower too. Yanmar makes a 20HP vertical shaft water cooled engine that weighs 122 lbs (base engine only), but we have never priced the engine. Off road doesel will save you 10% on fuel and the diesel should be better on fuel, so who knows, it might pay back the cost of the engine. Rudolf Diesel invented the diesel engine and it ran on "localy avaible fuels". I read somewhere before that it ran off veg oil, and then after he died it was converted to diesel fuel, but I could not find the article tosay what kind of veg oil. I have read several articles on processing used veg oil (cooking oil waste) to run it in diesel engines.

lwcmattlifter
08-19-2005, 12:09 AM
From what I understand, and I could be wrong... You don't have to pay a road tax on home made bio that you will burn in your own vehicle because it's still considered a cooking oil, not a fuel.