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rscritch
08-17-2005, 08:21 PM
ive been reading different ways to install flagstone patios, the company that i work for uses Oak select flagstone and lays it in a 3-4" mortar base over and 8" sub base, ive been reading that your supose to use a concrete sub base and was wondering which way was correct, also im wanting to install one for my girl friends parents and they want to pay me but im not sure how to charge, ive installed tons of them but never bothered to find out how much they cost

MarcusLndscp
08-17-2005, 10:57 PM
Anything mortared needs to be on a slab, otherwise a good gravel base with the flagging set in stonedust is more than adequate.
Here's one with a natural look we just finished. Gravel base, stonedust, all hammered joints (no saws), with a rough uncut edge to stay with the natural theme of the house
The walkway took about 1 1/2 days with 2 guys. That includes base prep through to sweeping the joints when all flagging was laid

rscritch
08-17-2005, 11:50 PM
how did you get the joints to match up so nice like that, that is very impressive, the way i was taught was to have a mortar joint some where around 1/2-3/4" thats amazing

MarcusLndscp
08-18-2005, 07:41 AM
I just start in an area with the larger slabs, in this case close to the stairs off the house then continue to match pieces to the ones already laid. If they need to be cut down in size I scribe the stone with my hammer where I want it to be cut and then start chipping the excess off. With this stone it doesn't take too long, maybe a couple minutes. I then set it back to the stone it's going against and make any fine adjustments to each rock. If I get a weak piece of stone that breaks totally in the wrong spot I don't sweat it too much as long as the piece that broke off is still the size of a piece of paper or so. I'll just hammer the joint where it broke off the main piece and use it in the same spot it broke from. The smaller pieces actually break up the monotony of the larger ones quite well. You can see a few of these "broken" pieces in the pics. All you need to do this job is a 3 lb. sledge and the 'ol Estwing.
Good luck

rscritch
08-18-2005, 06:03 PM
what type of stone is that?

MarcusLndscp
08-18-2005, 06:44 PM
irregular bluestone

CrewCutEnterprises
08-18-2005, 10:21 PM
Similar question.

Im working on a 56 linear ft walkway that is going to be irregular blue stone.

How thick of gravel base do i need, Also for under the stone dust, do i use gravel or cr6(gravel and fines)
1) gravel
2)landscape fabric
3)2 inches of blue dust
4)lay stone

sound about right?? any pointers would be greatly appreciated

MarcusLndscp
08-19-2005, 04:34 PM
I use 8-12 inches of gravel (stone and fines). Excavate to your proper depth given your existing soil conditions. Compact your subgrade, lay fabric, add gravel in approx. 3 inch lifts compacting each time, add stone dust, then lay flagging. Good luck

mbella
08-20-2005, 08:01 AM
Looks good Marc.

cgland
08-21-2005, 01:39 PM
Marcus - What methods do you use to restrain the flagging? compact soil against the edge? concrete? edge restraint? just curious as to how you keep everything tight>
BTW - The project looks great!

Chris

MarcusLndscp
08-22-2005, 06:06 PM
Hey Chris
All we do in these applications is pack the sides in with gravel. Using an edge restraint is next to impossible given the rough edges and we've had very good success with this method. Do you guys do anything different when laying flagging dry? Thank you for the compliments.
Mark

cgland
08-22-2005, 06:38 PM
We usually pack with soil....same difference. In rare cases where you have beds on both sides, we will do a concrete edge, but not very often. I don't do a ton of the irregulars, most of my stuff is either pavers or rectangular flagg. I'll be honest, it takes a true craftsman to accomplish the look you achieved.....Great Job! I don't have the time (or patience) :) to do that, so I tend to sell away from it.

Chris

MarcusLndscp
08-22-2005, 09:22 PM
When I teach people I work with the way to lay stone like that I try to tell them to go against what they would normally do when laying dimensional stone or pavers. You just have to let the stone be itself and not try to force it to fit somewhere or worry about this edge or that edge. Once you get the hang of it it's actually alot easier than dimensional stone. I'm sure you know that sometimes you get a load of dimensional bluestone or granite and they aren't always cut a true 24"x24" or 12"x 12" etc. Sometimes they vary by 1/4" or so and that can throw your lines off quite a bit, atleast to the trained eye. When laying irregular flagging you just kind of have to go with the way the stone breaks and not worry too much about "perfection". I enjoy doing these walkways more than I do any other because you never have one walkway look like another, there's always a bit of difference in each one. Did any of that make sense??? :dizzy:
Thanks again for your compliments

cgland
08-22-2005, 11:37 PM
Total sense! Thanks for the tips. See.......I'm willing to learn!

Chris

PowerPlay
08-22-2005, 11:50 PM
Those joints and the overall project are outstanding. I know how much work is involved in setting those pieces that tight. It is not easy. Great craftsmanship.

sheshovel
08-23-2005, 04:05 PM
Did you hand pic your stone?

MarcusLndscp
08-23-2005, 06:38 PM
No, we did not hand pick the stone. We were given 2 pallets (stand up) of the flagging to use and we used 1 1/2 pallets to complete the walkway and a few stepping stones in another part of the property. Of course we selected the better and larger stones off the pallets but with these walkways you can make most stone work.

GreenMonster
08-24-2005, 08:30 PM
Hey Mark -- nice job hijacking the guys thread. Show off.

sheshovel
08-25-2005, 03:46 PM
Gee now I feel bad leaving space between my flagstone!!I usually leave about an inch or two,sometimes more in between cuz it makes it easier to place and adjust the stones.I just finished small patio in AZ flag but now I don't want to post it up cuz Marcus's work makes mine pale in comparison.BoooHOOO :cry: :cry:And I handpicked my stone! :cry:

MarcusLndscp
08-25-2005, 07:11 PM
Hey there's no right or wrong here. I don't do all my walkways like that because it's not always called for or that style may not fit with the style of the house. In fact I just did a similar walkway today like the one I posted on here it's layout is obviously different but the joints are the same. On the same site we did a small landing in a less used area that we did not want to highlight and make as tight so the joints on it were anywhere from 1-3". It still looks good it's just a secondary area as compared to the front walk area. Post away sheshovel every style has a purpose and if done creatively still can look like gold.

mbella
08-25-2005, 07:23 PM
Marc, did you use polymer for the joints? We're in the process of installing an irregular, dry lay walkway. I'll post pics when we finish.

MarcusLndscp
08-25-2005, 07:32 PM
Hey Mike, how's the year going?
On occasion yes we will use it but typically (99% of the time) we just use stone dust, it really does a good job, it matches the stone color well, and binds up pretty good so we don't worry too much about it. Definitely post a pic when you're done as I always enjoy seeing your work.
Take it easy
Mark

sheshovel
08-26-2005, 08:39 PM
I gotta take the pics tommorrow then I will post um up.Have you seen this one yet?It was my first attempt at AZ flag sitting area plus the garden pathways.I did the whole garden for a freind of mine but my 1st time with a larger area.This was about 3 years ago

sheshovel
08-27-2005, 04:32 AM
I was $$ limited with this job or I would have used more stone and not filed in with plain gravel that's for sure..You can see where I messed up on the bed edges,but it's holding great and is solid as a rock.
This whole area was a parking dirt spot when I started the job.

buffalo bill
08-29-2005, 09:31 PM
ive been reading different ways to install flagstone patios, the company that i work for uses Oak select flagstone and lays it in a 3-4" mortar base over and 8" sub base, ive been reading that your supose to use a concrete sub base and was wondering which way was correct, also im wanting to install one for my girl friends parents and they want to pay me but im not sure how to charge, ive installed tons of them but never bothered to find out how much they cost
Figure out all your materials and labor costs and then add what you want
to net in profit. Yes, for mortar jointing it has to be on a slab. If your
girls parents are trying to save a buck, grass seams look great and laying
the flag for that is much easier.http://pkggardens.com/images/full-landscapes-8.jpg
Here is a stoop and walk on a slab with crushed blue mixed in the mortar.
Larger seams are ok on a slab.
http://pkggardens.com/images/full-wallsandwalks-2.jpg
Marcus: Really nice joint lines. Great work!