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Jason Rose
08-17-2005, 11:32 PM
I'm at a loss guys... The turf is fescue and is healthy and has been fertilized, we even have had rain in the last week! BUT. There are patches, some nearly 15 to 20 feet around that are this floruesent yellow color. I tried to take some pics with my camera but none of them really turned out well enough to hsow what I'm talking about. The last 3 apps of fert have been Lesco's 24-0-11 that has 2% Fe. Most of the lawns this happens in are in sandy soil. Is this simply an Iron problem??? I am actually getting complaints, plus it makes me sick to see this... Some of it I know is due to too much water, but there's not much that can be done about that. You either over water some spots or other spots dry up and die...

I'm really thinking aobut buying some iron and spreading it over the yellow areas and hoping it helps...

HELP!

Eclipse
08-18-2005, 01:53 AM
Sounds like it may be rust?

Is there a orange dust that will collect on your boots when you walk though it?

Jason Rose
08-18-2005, 09:05 AM
Sounds like it may be rust?

Is there a orange dust that will collect on your boots when you walk though it?

Humm, no there is no orange dust, or anything orange at all that I can see. The grass appears perfect in growth and everything, it's just BRIGHT yellow in spots.

garydale
08-18-2005, 09:35 AM
Jason,

The last service call I had for flourescent grass turned out to be crabgrass?

Are you sure the yellow areas are not a different grass variety?

I would use a soil probe to determine soil depth. ie hard pan,compaction etc.

Would like to hear the outcome.

Good luck,

Gary

Rwise10230
08-18-2005, 09:49 AM
Look up Poa Trivialis....I believe you will find what your looking for!

Eclipse
08-18-2005, 10:08 AM
Look up Poa Trivialis....I believe you will find what your looking for!

Why do Pao and flourescent yellow not seem to go together for me?

bobbygedd
08-18-2005, 10:12 AM
i've seen the same thing, but not on my own lawns, just some neighbors of my clients. i thought it was bad fertilizer or something. these are strands of it, not neccesarily patches

GreenUtah
08-18-2005, 11:36 AM
I actually would not overlook nitrogen induced chlorosis. You pointed out the product you used, but not the rate or whether any of it was sulfur/poly coated. Coupled with overwatering, if you applied over, say, 1.5 lbs of actual N per 1000, you may be forcing vegetative growth that is outstripping the roots ability to provide for the increased leaf blade. Would you say that the areas that are discolored are very long each week?

teeca
08-18-2005, 07:33 PM
sounds like it might be yellow nut sage, do a search at www.weedalert.com

teeca
08-18-2005, 07:49 PM
the picture on weedalert was not very good, try this http://www.agf.gov.bc.ca/cropprot/weedguid/yellownt.htm alot better picture

Jason Rose
08-18-2005, 07:54 PM
I actually would not overlook nitrogen induced chlorosis. You pointed out the product you used, but not the rate or whether any of it was sulfur/poly coated. Coupled with overwatering, if you applied over, say, 1.5 lbs of actual N per 1000, you may be forcing vegetative growth that is outstripping the roots ability to provide for the increased leaf blade. Would you say that the areas that are discolored are very long each week?

I thing greenUtah is hitting on what i'm looking at. The fert applied was Lesco's 24-0-11. 50% poly sulfer coat with 2% Fe and Trace. It was applied at 4 lbs per K to give roughly 1 Lb. of N per K. Actually the last app I did was the week of the 4th of July. I actually put it down closer to 3.5 Lbs. per K. (a little lean).

I was really looking hard at some of today while mowing. It's not every blade of grass that's yellow, it's aobut 1/3 of the blades dispursed evenly throughout. It seems that maybe one variety of the fescue blend is doing this??? The blades that are yellow are the thinner (not as wide) as most of the ones in the area. IT IS FESCUE. I know that... I know what Poa looks like as well as nutsedge.

One lawn it's particularly bad in has been recently added on to, about 25 feet wider by 75 feet or so. the new sod (laid about 2 months ago) has none of the yellow blades whereas the older turf (that was also sod installed about 10 yrs ago) is riddled with the yellow grass. I REALLY lean towards the too much water theory. I see it a lot directly around sprinkler heads.

Ok, so I narrow it down to too much water, too wet... I know the obvious is don't water so damn much, but the catch is that one zone covers some wet parts and some dry parts. you will either wean the water down to correct the wettness and then inturn you will fry the other areas.

What's the correction for this? am I on the right track with the Iron? The rest of the lawn, and the blades of grass that aren't yellow in the spots are really a nice dark green. Not to mention growing plenty fast... Thanks for the advice, if anyone thinks of any good idears I'd love to hear 'em!

ThreeWide
08-18-2005, 10:20 PM
Since the fertilizer you have used contains 2% Fe, that would lead me to eliminate the thought of an Iron deficiency. You normally get a decent response from that seemingly small amount of Fe. But if your soil is alkaline, the Iron response is less pronounced.

What is the climate like in the Summer in your area? I assume Kansas is pretty hot right now. I ask that because with Fescue in GA we normally do not apply N at all during the Summer. The Fescue undergoes a huge amount of stress due to heat and humidity. A July application of N here would be death sentence to the Fescue. Not that this would be the cause of your problem, but just to throw that in.

I would suggest doing a soil test to verify that the nutrients are adequate. You could be facing a weak root system from low Phoshorous.

Jason Rose
08-18-2005, 11:41 PM
What is the climate like in the Summer in your area? I assume Kansas is pretty hot right now. I ask that because with Fescue in GA we normally do not apply N at all during the Summer. The Fescue undergoes a huge amount of stress due to heat and humidity. A July application of N here would be death sentence to the Fescue. Not that this would be the cause of your problem, but just to throw that in.


Hot Hot Hot... Had a pretty long dryspell but that was broken last week with a couple inches of rain and some much cooler temps for a few days. back up around 100 now!

I have always been wary of summer apps of fert as well. However I noticied all my lawns looked like s*** during the summer and would barely grow, wheras the competition's lawns looked awesome all year round. Why? because they were applying 25-5-11 mid April, again, the first of July. I'm seeing these same people out applying 24-0-11 AGAIN this past 2 weeks. that's hardly 5 or 6 weeks between apps in the heat of the summer. No burnout, however the topgrowth is just horrible. Need to trade the mower for a swather.

Is it a conspricay that Lesco does not offer a fert with phophorus in it around here anymore??? 24-5-11 is now 24-0-11. A couple years back Lesco offered a fert for summer that had something like 12 or 14% phosphorus. It was only around that year and isn't offered here now.

ThreeWide
08-19-2005, 08:38 AM
Phosphorus is only an issue if the soil naturally doesn't have enough. Once present, Phosphorus does not go away through leaching like other nutrients

Let's say you did a soil test and found the P to be 50-100 lbs/Acre. If that was the case, you should never need to apply P in your fertilizers for that property. If it was 10 lbs/Acre, you would need to apply P until it reached a satisfactory level.

My point is that ongoing applications of P are normally not needed. It is only an issue when a deficiency is present.

If you want a Fescue lawn better than your competition, apply liquid iron plus potassium a couple of times during the Summer months. The granular equivalent of that is 5-10-31 at Lesco. Very little topgrowth, but keeps it green.

GreenUtah
08-19-2005, 03:05 PM
I agree with the phosphorus issue and turf conditions, but I also wonder why local conditions are calling for so much potassium? In most of the west, with our high alkalinity, potassium requirements against N generally only run 1/4 to 1/8 the amount to stay in balance. Iron is also plentiful in our soils, but ph imbalance ties it up, requiring supplemental iron feedings. The nice part about doing a liquid iron treatment is that you get some foliar uptake instead of purely relying on it making it to the roots in soil conditions that may be tying up available iron. As far as addressing uneven watering, moving/adding/subtracting heads, changing gallonage throats for rotors, changing distance/angle or pressure for popups are all methods for adding water or subtracting water to even things out. Not everything has to happen at the clock. If you don't offer that service, find someone who does, preferrably with some sort of certified irrigation auditor designation if it's available in your area. I don't think it's the heat(I've had cool season grasses stay in fine shape during 110 degree plus stretches of days) and at the rates you stated, it's not likely nitrogen nor iron imbalances. Get the water in check and maybe ask why potassium needs are so high in your area.

grassworks
08-19-2005, 08:04 PM
This is sometimes a sign of pending white grub damage -- check the soil asap.

Jason Rose
08-19-2005, 08:07 PM
This is sometimes a sign of pending white grub damage -- check the soil asap.

BETTER NOT BE!!! I spent a fortune on Mach II this season! Well, ok, my customers did...

Killswitch
08-19-2005, 09:18 PM
Did you cut this lawn wet any time recently?

Do you keep your blades sharp?

Are their lesions on the yellowing blades?

Is the soil the same makeup in these areas?

Septic field?

Anthracnose?

Spreader/equipment malfunction?

Sod webworm infestation?

Early grubs? Its been hot and life cycles have changed folks.

Ive seen laws turn very light green and almost yellow because they were cut wet and I believe all the Nutrients and chlorophyl in the blades bled out in patches.

Theres just not enough information to even make a good guess, but everyone thinks its a nutrient deficiency and wants to fert it out of its condition.



:dizzy:

SHOWCASE LAWNS LLC
08-19-2005, 09:26 PM
any chance of someone doing a MSMA/acclaim OR OTHER CRABRGASS TREATMENT WITHOUT YOUR KNOWLEDGE ?

kcchiefs58
08-22-2005, 10:56 AM
Just because you put on 2% fe doesn't mean it is enough. Bright yellow spots sounds more like iron cholorsis. Iron can be there but the problem is that the grass is not taking it up, it may be getting bound up in the soil. Since it is not mobile like nitrogen you need to try some chelated iron. Also some sulfur (Like ammoium sulfate) will help the grass take in iron. Not too much at this time of year as burning could be your result.

nblucy
09-16-2005, 08:12 PM
Jason,

One other post touches on this topic, and i just found this post so sorry for the late reply but hopes this helps...

Poa Trivialis (Roughstalk Bluegrass) is a very common weed in Tall fescue lawns. It can be quite prevelant after periods of rain as well as moist cool conditions. Seeds for the Poa Triv are commonly found in the soil and since Poa reproduces from Rhizhomes like standard KBG will continue to come back year after year. The best form of control that i have found is spraying with Roundup @ 2% Solution, scalping down with a weedeater and re-seeding. I switched seed blend to Trigold from Lesco due to the bluetag certification after killing these areas with roundup and was able to eliminate the problem.


Hope this helps.

nblucy

lawnguy26
09-16-2005, 09:31 PM
Yellowing of turf or chlorosis could be caused by several things. Excessive N applications, escessive moisture, improper pH or nutrient deficiences in the soil causing uptake to be difficult. First get a soil test done to check pH and micronutrient levels such as Magnesium and Manganese. Deficiencies of either of these could cause poor uptake of Iron. Apply a liquid Iron app. for foliar intake for the time being. Iron sulfate, Manganese sulfate and Ammonium sulfate applied as a liquid always works for me.

Jason Rose
09-16-2005, 10:52 PM
Thanks for all the replies! I'm actually leaning towards this being a chlorosis problem, even though it's obviously only yellowing one or perhaps 2 of the turfgrass blend varities. Even tho I say chlorosis, I can't say that Iron had any effect. I applied a product called Ionate, a granular iron, that I have used on my own lawn and had tremendous greening, It had little to no effect on these areas on the lawns I'm having the problems in. Pretty soon I started to have fungus problems, mostly in the lawns that had the yellowing. It was bad enough that I had to drop everything and load up the tank sprayer and mixed up some manicure 6 and threw in liquid iron too. I only sprayed certian areas, the places that were bad, so you would think that the fungicied would have helped and the iron would have made those areas greener than the rest of the lawn... Didn't do much of anything.

That was about 3 weeks ago. Since then the temperatures have dropped and we received some rain from mother nature. The fungus (not brown patch, more severe...) has subsided and the yellow grass is a bit greener, tho still not right. I'm hoping to do my next fert. app in the next week or so (Lesco 32-3-8 30% + 2%Fe)

I'm seriously thinking about throwing in the towel on the fertilizing and chemical side of the business. I know another guy that is really good and am contemplating just subing him out all year to do my lawns. Being solo it's just too much to keep up with when I need to fill my schedule with mowing to stay busy, but then every 4 to 8 weeks I need to have a large window of time open to devote to doing my apps properly.

garydale
09-17-2005, 10:11 AM
Jason,

Years ago I had a lawn where not all grass plants were yellow, but mixed into green plants.

Like you I tried everything, about to give up I call my college professor for turf management.

After crawling on our hands and knees for 30 minutes, he decided to cut a plant stem open.

He found "Billbug" larva in each yellow plant tested.

It was so long ago I don't remember how we treated it.

I don't know if you have "Billbug" in your area.

Gary

GreenUtah
09-18-2005, 04:10 PM
granular irons are not quickly available for upatake. Since our plants do not have mouths, those prills need to break down into a solution the plant can use first before you will see anything from it. I would not be adding more fertilizer to this until you have an answer as well, since you may already be on the verge of burining it already with levels of any of the 16 macro or micronutrients. Cooler weather is helping, so you may need to let it grow out of the imbalance, if that is what it is.