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View Full Version : Primer Bulb Really Work?


HighGrass
08-19-2005, 06:20 PM
I have an Echo SRM 230 straight shaft trimmer that I really like....except for starting. It seems like no matter if If use the primer bulb or not, it still takes about 8 pulls to get it started for the first run of the day. If it's hot out, the rest of the day it will start on the first pull....usually.

Do primer bulbs really make that big of a difference?

Forest
08-19-2005, 06:29 PM
Primer bulbs do work if the carb isn't set too rich. It sounds to me like your jets need to be adjusted and or a whole carb cleaning. Does it smoke at all on start up, general usage. If so, what color smoke? All the primer bulb does, incase you were unsure, is squirts a little fuel in the throat of the carb.

HighGrass
08-19-2005, 06:35 PM
Primer bulbs do work if the carb isn't set too rich. It sounds to me like your jets need to be adjusted and or a whole carb cleaning. Does it smoke at all on start up, general usage. If so, what color smoke? All the primer bulb does, incase you were unsure, is squirts a little fuel in the throat of the carb.

Actually, it doesn't smoke at all at start up. The funny thing is, I have three Echo units (Blower and 2 trimmers) and none of them start as hard as the SRM. The unit has behaved this way since new. But lord knows how long it was hanging around in the store. (Home Depot) It sounds like it might be time for a little carb cleaning.

Forest
08-19-2005, 06:39 PM
It definently sounds like it's out of adjustment. Have you taken a look at the color of the plug recently. Is it Dark and wet looking, white looking or a tannish color? Sorry for all the questions to you question. Just trying to help. It definently sounds out of wack though. That's the reason I ask about plug condition. They tell a story.

HighGrass
08-19-2005, 06:49 PM
It definently sounds like it's out of adjustment. Have you taken a look at the color of the plug recently. Is it Dark and wet looking, white looking or a tannish color? Sorry for all the questions to you question. Just trying to help. It definently sounds out of wack though. That's the reason I ask about plug condition. They tell a story.

Don't worry about asking too many questions...keep asking.

I pulled the plug out last week and it looked sort of tan. Not wet or oily at all. So, I checked the gap it and was right where it was supposed to be according to the book. Just to be on the safe side, I changed it anyway and it still started the same.

jbell113
08-19-2005, 06:49 PM
It definently sounds like it's out of adjustment. Have you taken a look at the color of the plug recently. Is it Dark and wet looking, white looking or a tannish color? Sorry for all the questions to you question. Just trying to help. It definently sounds out of wack though. That's the reason I ask about plug condition. They tell a story.

Hey forest , if you have time explain those 3 plug conditions to me
..

Forest
08-19-2005, 06:59 PM
Don't worry about asking too many questions...keep asking.

I pulled the plug out last week and it looked sort of tan. Not wet or oily at all. So, I checked the gap it and was right where it was supposed to be according to the book. Just to be on the safe side, I changed it anyway and it still started the same.



For grins before you rip it apart or take it in, I'd personally try adjusting the air mixture screw in a 1/2 a turn or so. If you have the owners manual it might specify the carb setting. If it does reset them all to factory settings. The more you thread the fuel/air mixture screw in the richer it becomes and vice versa the farther out the leaner it becomes. If the plug is looking a really light tan then i suggest giving it a bit more fuel. Don't be afraid to play around with it. As long as you remember the original settings then you'll be in good shape.

Forest
08-19-2005, 07:16 PM
Hey forest , if you have time explain those 3 plug conditions to me
..


Jbell... There are three main shades of colors that can be read off of plugs that tell a lot about how an engine is running. If an engine is running rich the plug will show a really dark brown, almost black, color and is usually wet or smells richly of gas. The ground electrode won't usually display these symptoms as much as the center electrode will(the small piece of porceline with the metal center electrode protruding out). If it's running rich too you may see a little bit of wettness on the last thread or two. If it's running good(neither too rich or lean) the plug will show a light brown to tan color and may smell just a touch gaseous. This color or condition is usually a good middle ground to be in for plug color, assuming the engine starts properly, idles properly and revs through the powerband without hesitation. And lastly,
you know you got a lean engine when the plug looks extremely light tan to white in color. This condition is a non-desirable condition because if lean enough you Can burn a hole in the piston as well as do other damages to the eninge. The reason for this is because a lean engine is a very hot burning engine.

As a auto technition by trade, analyzing plug conditions is crutial for determining what's going on with a engine runability issue. I hope the info above helps you guys out. If you have any more questions just ask!-Forest

Richard Martin
08-20-2005, 07:19 AM
A couple of things.

The primer bulb on most modern small 2 stroke engine does not squirt a little gas in the throat of the carb. All it does is fill up the fuel lines and fuel pump with gas. You can pump the primer all day long and never get a drop of gas in the engine. When you close the choke all of the vacuum that is provided by pulling the starter actually pulls fuel out of the carb.

Most carbs today have no means of adjusting a fuel air mixture. The only mixture screw I've seen in the last 5 years is on the Stihl BR400/420 series of blowers and it is capped off. The air fuel misture is set via the jet. If you want to fatten the mixture up you must remove the jet and drill it out. If you want to lean the mixture out you must remove the jet, plug the opening and redrill it to a smaller size.

On carbs that do have a air fuel mixture screw turning the screw in leans the mixture and turning it out fattens the mixture. If you remove it you will see that the end tapers to a point. The pointed end can be moved into a jet in the carb. As the tapered point is screwed further into the jet it decreases the amount of fuel that can pass through the jet leaning the air fuel mixture out and visa-versa for when you turn the screw out.

If your trimmer has always been hard to start then there could be a problem with how you are trying to start it. If it got harder to start as it got older then there could be a problem with the carb or the compression.

HighGrass
08-20-2005, 11:28 AM
A couple of things.

The primer bulb on most modern small 2 stroke engine does not squirt a little gas in the throat of the carb. .....SNIP,SNIP...[B]If your trimmer has always been hard to start then there could be a problem with how you are trying to start it. If it got harder to start as it got older then there could be a problem with the carb or the compression.

If your trimmer has always been hard to start then there could be a problem with how you are trying to start it.

Okay, here's how I start it. I prime it by pressing the primer bulb 3 times. I set the choke, place start switch on and start pulling. About 5- pulls later it starts to pop and usually by the 8th pull, it will stay running. I let it warm up a bit and slide the choke halfway open and I can usually start using it without it stalling.

I also noticed that there is no mixture screw. The manual eludes to this as a emmisions issue. GO figure.

I use the same gas as in all my other echo pieces.

HighGrass
06-30-2006, 12:46 AM
Well it's been about a year. I'm up tp about 8-9 pulls now. I'm really thinking about making my own "real" primer. Today, every time I went to start it, it took about 7 pulls (avg.) each time! To me, that's a bunch of crap. It's starving for fuel!:hammerhead:

Lynden-Jeff
06-30-2006, 01:33 AM
I can usually start my srm 210 in 4-5 pulls in the morning. Often at the first job I will start both the 210 and 260 and just let them idle while I unload whatever mower(s) we are going to use. After that its Bob's your uncle all day when it comes to starting, first pull ever time.

Cheers
Jeff

tallimeca
06-30-2006, 12:12 PM
Here's a tip from an Echo Dealer.

This is how I start EVERY Echo engine, except for the CSG680 Cutoff saws.

Switch on.
Prime 3 times
Move to choke
SQUEEZE THROTTLE
Pull 2-3 times, may start on third time. If it does, move choke gradually to run.

If didn't start, move to run and fire up. Once it starts, some times if it's cold you can click it over to choke and back a couple times to help load up a little fuel on startup.

The trick is, SQUEEZE THE TRIGGER. If had experiences with all makes and models. Some will start when squeezing the trigger. Some won't. When we sold Maruyama, they would never start at wide open throttle. Unless it's already running, Echo's want to start under throttle.

Another tip. Stop buying equipment from Home Depot. They can't help you with your problems. Echo dealers sell the same product at the same price. It's on MAP pricing.

ed2hess
06-30-2006, 06:25 PM
I have used Echo stuff for 25 years and hardly ever use the primer bulb!! The only time I use it is if a unit has set for a couple months or if it has been run dry on fuel. None of the units start on the first pull but who cares, as long as they start.

TLS
07-01-2006, 12:39 AM
Maybe your primer bulb is dry rotted and your not getting a full squirt?

Every 5 years or so I have to replace a bulb on something. This newer gas is really starting to get to them.

Smithers
07-01-2006, 01:13 PM
For grins before you rip it apart or take it in, I'd personally try adjusting the air mixture screw in a 1/2 a turn or so. If you have the owners manual it might specify the carb setting. If it does reset them all to factory settings. The more you thread the fuel/air mixture screw in the richer it becomes and vice versa the farther out the leaner it becomes. If the plug is looking a really light tan then i suggest giving it a bit more fuel. Don't be afraid to play around with it. As long as you remember the original settings then you'll be in good shape.
forest, i have a 21" toro and every time i start, white smore comes out of it for about 1-2 seconds. then it's ok. that's after they almost rebuild the engine or carb (defitenely changed the gasket) last year at the dealer where i bought it.

also, when i am cutting with it, something sounds like i have hydro on it. squealing type of noise. doubt it's the lack of grease in the tires.

any ideas on the two?

thanks

HighGrass
07-01-2006, 03:40 PM
The primer is fine, though I think primer is a pretty strong word for what it actually does. Anyway, the best way to start this beast, is to prime 5 times, full choke with switch on and pull it with the throttle full open. Now I can start it within about 3 cranks.:weightlifter:

kmann
07-01-2006, 05:10 PM
I have an Echo SRM 230 straight shaft trimmer that I really like....except for starting. It seems like no matter if If use the primer bulb or not, it still takes about 8 pulls to get it started for the first run of the day. If it's hot out, the rest of the day it will start on the first pull....usually.

Do primer bulbs really make that big of a difference?
I have a Stihl trimmer that does the same thing. But at the beginning of the day if i prime it about 15 to 20 times, it starts right up.