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steve in Pa.
08-19-2005, 08:14 PM
Here's some pics of a patio with small walkway, new steps and finished with sod. hopefully the pics will load up.

Rex Mann
08-19-2005, 09:34 PM
Steve,

Great looking project. I would recommend using a sailor course as opposed to a soldier course. The sailor will make it appear larger, especially the narrow walkway and, make it flow better. Keep up the great installs.

Peace,

Rex

PaversInstalled.Com (http://paversinstalled.com)

mbella
08-19-2005, 10:04 PM
Steve, looks pretty good. In the first pic, where the steps in the foreground meet the house, it looks like the pavers flare up. Either that or the steps are sinking.

steve in Pa.
08-20-2005, 12:02 AM
we had to start a little higher there for our drainage just wanted to make sure no water layed in the back corner. the whole project really annoying the house wasn't square any where, siding was off leve, porch where steps go up wasn't level or square. we always seem to use the soldier course maybe on another project we'll have to try the sailor course.

mbella
08-20-2005, 12:07 AM
I disagree with Rex's soldier course comment. It's personal opinion, but I don't think it would make any difference. What would have made a big diffenence is lowering those pavers along the steps.

steve in Pa.
08-20-2005, 08:35 AM
they are only around 3/4 - 1" up on the step. The steps had to start where they did due to the fact of comming up to existing doorways, keeping that we had 6" steps. If we had put the pavers in lower the patio would be below ground level? would you still lower them? wouldn't this cause certain problems if the patio was lower then the ground to exit water? Just asking questions mbella always thirsting for knowledge!!!

DVS Hardscaper
08-20-2005, 09:43 AM
Not a bad job. But I see something that really eats away at me: Suspected building code violations. (for the record I am not familiar with the codes for where the photos were taken)

I am currently involved in an ongoing court case as an expert witness for the homeowner. The homeowner had a patio and steps built by another contractor. the other contractor really and truely did poor work, and the homeowner was not happy with the end result, and refused final payment. Therefore the other contractor sued them for final payment...instead of correcting the flaws.

So once the can of worms was opened, I found that the first step was similar to the steps in the pictures in this thread. I double checked the local building code and the building code states, "the greatest riser height within any flight of stairs shall not exceed the smallest by more than 3/8 inch (9.5 mm).

Also I see the steps have four rises. Which in most counties the code reads "...shall be provided on at least one side of stairways of three or more risers."

Regardless of the variables, drainage, window wells, doors, etc, you still need to find a way to make the risers consistant in height. Whether its raise the grade with additional compacted aggregate, or finding a block to construct the steps that will offer a different riser height.

Also, a 6x6 border as suggested by another, is the way to go for small pavements. We usually only do a soldier course when the walk is no less than 4' wide, and or the patio is over 500 SF.

I'm not flamin ya, just offerin some pointers.

In the court case I'm involved with, the defense has an extremely motivated and agressive attorney. The attorney really backed the other contractor into a corner regarding the steps meeting building code. And on the stand the other contractor got flustered and responded in a loud tone "sir, I'm not a carpenter". Well, whether you're a carpenter, plumber, concrete finisher, brick / stone mason, patio builder - if you're building steps, you still NEED TO know and conform with the local building codes.

It protects you from gettin at call at 3:34 in the am because your client's drunk mother in law fell down the steps while attending a big party.

Again, not flamin you. I'm a bigg preacher when it comes to liability and building codes.


http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y212/ScapeItWS6360CJ7/27008cf1.jpg

DVS Hardscaper
08-20-2005, 10:10 AM
Block Steps With Handrails (http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y212/ScapeItWS6360CJ7/27008cf1.jpg)


Lets try this. I see pic posting doesn't work too well. Maybe a moderator can delete the pic in my previous thread?

kootoomootoo
08-20-2005, 11:39 AM
Continuing from above I was wondering why nobody picked up on the bottom step having a 4in rise and the rest 6in? The step into the house looks almost 8in+?

mbella
08-20-2005, 12:42 PM
Continuing from above I was wondering why nobody picked up on the bottom step having a 4in rise and the rest 6in? The step into the house looks almost 8in+?

I figured I'd leave the trip step for you (lol). I know you have an eye for it.

Drafto
08-20-2005, 10:38 PM
My $0.02.....I think everything looks clean and neat. I agree with the handrail liability totally. The other thing I have to critique it that I am not a fan of NOT have a landing (stoop) at a door. There is nothing more annoying than trying to pass someone at that entrance, or having to be on the second step, opne the door all the way and walk on the edge of the steps to get around the door and in. I might not be critisizing the contractor here, maybe the homeowners wanted it that way but it bothers me whrn I see that.

Dan

P.S. I am overweight so maybe the passing thing is just me! (LOL)

sheshovel
08-25-2005, 03:37 PM
I would have put a drain under to handle the downspout water.

SharperCut
08-25-2005, 10:11 PM
Also I see the steps have four rises. Which in most counties the code reads "...shall be provided on at least one side of stairways of three or more risers."


DVS

Where does it say that in the IBC? The only section on handrails I could find stated that a handrail needed in any stairways over one riser. Do you have the section number that is it? I could be and hopefully am wrong. I have heard the 3 or more risers before, and just want to make sure. Thanks.

Mike's Yard Services
08-27-2005, 12:19 AM
I agree.....I just finishing a job at inlaws new const home....every gutter has a 6 ft downspout extension out to a can you believe it..a cement splashblock.........$425,000 and apparently the drainage is not where the money is spent.........I drop into elbow/perf draintile and out to yard emitter....outside the new landscaping we are wrapping up on Mon or Tues.will post a few pics also..............besides eliminate the water issues and yo9u solve nearly all possible probs...and I only spent maybe $15.00 or so per downspout reroute for all material including emitter.......much cleaner and better all around. Mike

P.S. the landscape is now gorgeous...no nasty extended gutter crap to mess things up, and who the hell even uses splachblocks anymore?????????????

Boycea
08-27-2005, 01:31 AM
[QUOTE=Rex Mann]Steve,

Great looking project. I would recommend using a sailor course as opposed to a soldier course. The sailor will make it appear larger, especially the narrow walkway and, make it flow better. Keep up the great installs.

I don't do much hardscaping and was wondering what a sailor course was. Thanks.

marko
10-10-2005, 12:53 PM
[QUOTE=Rex Mann]Steve,

Great looking project. I would recommend using a sailor course as opposed to a soldier course. The sailor will make it appear larger, especially the narrow walkway and, make it flow better. Keep up the great installs.

I don't do much hardscaping and was wondering what a sailor course was. Thanks.



http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://na.hansonbrick.com/en/images/brickPositions/soldier_wall.gif&imgrefurl=http://na.hansonbrick.com/en/architect/positions.php&h=195&w=195&sz=8&tbnid=-nAUYA9u8kMJ:&tbnh=98&tbnw=98&hl=en&start=13&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dsoldier%2Bbrick%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DG

treedoc1
10-10-2005, 05:03 PM
Since we don't put pavers on edge , it's easier to remember

Soldiers stand at attention, Sailors lay in their hammocks.

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IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __

Same paver, just 90 degree rotated.