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bobbygedd
08-21-2005, 10:10 AM
if you start at 18, do fertilization/chemicals, mowing,etc- property maint, and small landscapes, staying completely solo, and within a couple years, pay a mortgage, support a wife +2 kids, pay for health benefits, etc........how long can you do this? CAN YOU even do this? assuming it's a seasonal area, where you work 9 months a year. how many years, before you either pack it in, or the elements beat the hell out of you, or kill you. OR, can you do it till your 60? that's 42 years, for those of you who are mathematically challenged. i say it can't be done. i don't care if you're superman, or even me. you would have to carry about 70 lawn mowing clients, mowing is the steadiest part of the business, you need this. even if you can squeeze out $30 a piece for these residentials, you'd get $2100 a week x 36 weeks=$75,600. even if, you got extras, that tallied up another $25,000 for the year, you'd be at 100k gross. your operating costs would be about $20,000 a year. you are now down to 80k. your health insurence would be about $14,000, now you are down to $66,000. uncle sam gets something, let's say 10 grand, now, you are left with 56k. your mortgage is 2 grand a month, or, 24k a year, now you're down to 32k. car payments 300 per month, or $3600 a year, leaves you $28,400. auto insurence, $1400, you are down to $27,000. utilities +phone= about $3000. now, you are down to $24,000. life insurence about $1740. now you are at $22260. this covers everything, except food, clothing, and entertainment, vacations, etc. you now have about $428 a week, left for food (about $200 a week) clothing, entertainment, baseball game, amusement park, whatever. this is cutting it real close. using the numbers i gave , it can be done, but i prefer a more pleasant lifestyle. oh yea, and get sick, get rained out, get beat on a few payments, those numbers crumble. tell me, can a solo man, make a carreer, as a solo op, and live a decent life? i say no, no way, never.

southlin
08-21-2005, 10:33 AM
it can be done. Dont know how it is in jersey but i get $55 a yard.
Dont drop my gate for less than $40. its kinda steep but its worth it. I have a few CPA offices they pay me $400 a month each year round. All depends on what you want to do in life.

Just my opinion

rodfather
08-21-2005, 10:53 AM
You need the other 1/2 bobby contributing somehow (groceries, health beenies, etc.). That...or be like me. :D

rodfather
08-21-2005, 10:55 AM
Almost forgot...if you're NOT clearing $500 per day, you DON"T belong on the bus. :rolleyes:

jtrice11
08-21-2005, 11:10 AM
Why are you asking, you don't seem to care much about what other people think anyway, correct?

TURFLORD
08-21-2005, 11:25 AM
A smart man knows how to work for money. A wise man gets his money to work for him.

gunner27
08-21-2005, 11:54 AM
Ten years ago, I would have said yes. Now, no way in hell unless you have your wife working and having bennifts. This buisness is way to easy to get into and with the rising costs of gas, not to mention the rising cost of equipment......... yeah you can make a living, but you could go to work for somebody else and have them pay for your health, retirement, etc, and have alot less headaches. There are people that can pull it off, but as a rule, NO!

6'7 330
08-21-2005, 12:14 PM
Without another source of income, wife-working etc,I would say 99.9 percent could not. And that is without taking in the consideration if health deteriorates.

burns60
08-21-2005, 12:29 PM
I didn't get into the business until I was 57 and retired with a pension. I have thought about your question a good bit. I haven't had the pressure to find out, so I can't say for sure, buy to answer the question I would say "no", not solo, but "yes", if you wanted to let the business grow (not solo then). I don't think I could handle 70 accounts solo. I have 38 (last count) and it is all I can do. I have about 3 that are too big and could do better if I didn't have these, and probably won't next year. Good question Gedd.

bobbygedd
08-21-2005, 12:37 PM
Why are you asking, you don't seem to care much about what other people think anyway, correct?
i'll tell you why. at 40.5 years old, i am just starting to realize my mortality. this year, the sun feels much hotter, the weedwacker feels alot heavier, and 60 minutes feels alot like 75. there is no way in hell, a man can do this alone, for 20 years, let alone 40, and generate any kind of an income suitable for raising a family. no way

lawnman_scott
08-21-2005, 12:43 PM
i'll tell you why. at 40.5 years old, i am just starting to realize my mortality. this year, the sun feels much hotter, the weedwacker feels alot heavier, and 60 minutes feels alot like 75. there is no way in hell, a man can do this alone, for 20 years, let alone 40, and generate any kind of an income suitable for raising a family. no way
Jtrice, you know how some people say there is a hidden message in bobbys posts? Well it was here also, but this time he spelled it out for you. The awnser is no, and I say that at just under 40. I am hoping for 2 more years of mowing till I can just supervise.

TWUllc
08-21-2005, 12:57 PM
Theres a guy around here that I've seen mowing since I was a litte. Same truck,trailer, just different/newer equipment. I ran into him while at 7 Eleven when I was grabbing a bag of ice, and talked for a bit. Long story short, he said he went at it for 24 years solo, then had to hire a helper due to his health. He said money was never a big issue, it was just his health. Now, I don't know what his standard of living is, never seen his house or anything, but from what he told me, it could be done up to a point, that point being your health. Then again, he could be just pullin' my leg. Just thought I'd share that.

robby
08-21-2005, 01:11 PM
You bring up a great topic. I'm same age as you and have been doing this work solo for 12 years. The last couple of years ive really started to notice that the ole body doesnt recover as fast as it used to. Going out to do back to back days of putting down 12 yards of mulch each day is no longer so easy. I've decided to start passing on the mulching jobs and sticking more to just mowing. I think my body could easily handle just mowing for another 10-20 years, but cutting back to maybe 40 yards or less after age 50.
As far as surviving on just a mowing income, it really highly depends on your lifestyle. If you grew up a saver and planned early for retirement and lived within your means, surviving comfortably on even $30,000 a year isnt so hard. Health insurance is one of the bigger obstacles to be able to handle once you start aging if youre paying it yourself. But keeping your overall expenses under control makes life a whole lot easier. Not having the expense of raising kids tends to help too!

Envy Lawn Service
08-21-2005, 01:47 PM
i'll tell you why. at 40.5 years old, i am just starting to realize my mortality. this year, the sun feels much hotter, the weedwacker feels alot heavier, and 60 minutes feels alot like 75. there is no way in hell, a man can do this alone, for 20 years, let alone 40, and generate any kind of an income suitable for raising a family. no way

The Green Industry is no different than any other industry.
It's wise to plan a realistic standard of living and plan an exit strategy.

It other words, you need to live a bit below your means and position yourself to where you don't REQUIRE a great deal of income all of your life. In other words, although you may charge what an attorney charges per hour, you certainly can't expect to live like one. You have to have a more modest approach to material things and achieve major life goals in a shorter period of time.

This way you can get while the getting is good, aquire and pay for what you need, and then put some of your money to work for you in other ways, and work your exit plan strategy along the way.

But, it is also important to understand that in today's economy, rather you and I like it or not, it's very hard to get where you want to be in life without the husband and wife both being wage earners.

But anyways Bobby, as I read more and more of your posts, I really hope you have an exit strategy already in place for the near future.

bobbygedd
08-21-2005, 02:16 PM
why do you say that?

6'7 330
08-21-2005, 02:21 PM
I would have pursued a different career choice then the landscaping industry, if I wanted to do all the work alone.

webfoot
08-21-2005, 03:28 PM
Health insurance is the killer.I mow alone on my stuff,about 10 yards.Help another guy for one very full day.I also work in a factory 4 twelve hour days a week.The factory job pays some of my health-life insurance policy(company provided).But the kicker is I've already paid over 2600 dollars out of my pay checks this year in medical ins.When I first started working here everything was paid for.Now it goes up next year agin.
I used to work overtime all the time but more duductions,more taxes and I said I have got to do something different.Started helping this guy then got my own mower.My job at the factory is easy.Way easier than mowing.The mowing pays alot beter tho.
I have two kids and awife and there is no way I would want to pay for a medical insurance policy on all off us.My boss heard about me mowing and asked if I was going to quit and I said for what I'm doing now I would almost just work for the insurance.In the next few years it will be medical insurances/expenses that put a lot of small buisniess's out,mowing or other wise.
So after going on and on and everybody out there noding off twice I don't feel like I could make it solo.

bobbygedd
08-21-2005, 03:34 PM
most employers, if they are providing health coverage, they are only paying half. this means, if your health coverage is $14,000 a year, you, are paying 7k of that. so, is the fact that your employer is giving you 7 k, enough to make you stay there? it wasn't for me

webfoot
08-21-2005, 03:40 PM
It is for me because I have to have it and my job is really good here.Mow in the summer and duck hunt three to four days a week in the winter.I would love to get big enough in mowing to be able to hunt the whole 60 day season but 15,000 for health ins.I can't even consider it.Pretty much no stress here and I like it.

bobbygedd
08-21-2005, 04:01 PM
It is for me because I have to have it and my job is really good here.Mow in the summer and duck hunt three to four days a week in the winter.I would love to get big enough in mowing to be able to hunt the whole 60 day season but 15,000 for health ins.I can't even consider it.Pretty much no stress here and I like it.
not $15,000, only $7500. remember, your boss only pays half. alot of people don't realize this.

LwnmwrMan22
08-21-2005, 04:02 PM
Without a spouse working, there's no way you could run a family if you didn't want to live below poverty level.

But that's the case in just about any other blue collar job.

I do okay, I can net around 30k, with $1800 in vehicle payments / month, an $900 / month house payment, about $6500 / month going to taxes and other equipment payments, gas, yada yada.

I'm okay with that.

I own 2 houses and just under 20 acres of land between the two of them. Right now they're valued at just under $300k each, and the other one, next door, we rent.

My wife works as a nurse for the state of MN, so we get all the health ins. there, along with other benefits.

Plus, the job she's in, she's making more working part time for the state, than she would working full time for something in the private sector.

Her money is the spending money.

Without that income, there's no way we could live like we do though.

I suppose if you really really wanted to budget, a family could live on that 30k net, but I wouldn't want to. What would be even worse would be having to pay child support out of that as well.

webfoot
08-21-2005, 04:54 PM
And I do on my oldest.500 a month so the factory takes care of that to.

lawnworker
08-21-2005, 08:39 PM
Bobby, your post is a good one. Another factor to look at is job enjoyment. Many on this board love cutting, planting, and applications. I am really burned out on solo Lawn Care. I am forty, like you, and I feel a little slower then before, but mostly, I feel like I was meant for something more then this mowing business. physically I think I can do this tell I am old and Grey,which reminds me of a man I saw on Friday mowing beside me, He was doing pretty good, but I don't wan't to end up like that at 60. I am going to try real estate next year and continue going to college part time toward my teaching degree. Both chancy career moves in my opinion, but nothing is sure of any more. The day to day contact with people looking to buy would be cool. Teaching, well lets just say it would not be boring.
In your area the housing costs are so high, even 70,000 per year net is a median income, right. That would be something I would really think about work- versus reward.
The real truth about this mowing is this - prices are not much better then in the 80s. I know I was cutting then. Back then there was not as many people doing this. The people with walk behinds were rare. See, you could make a living then- easy- hardly anyone was cutting. Now, every one- and to beat it all they are doing it for about the same wages as the 80s. They just have slightly more productive equipment. Equipment that carries a much higher price tag.
To me Solo mowing has become like a step up from working a wage, slave job, but it does not compare with a professional type job, and in some areas with the influx of illegals things are going to get worse each year, once they learn English well. This is a fact.
I will be exiting some time in the future.

Lake Claire Lawn Ranger
08-21-2005, 10:19 PM
Just a single guy, small house, nothing fancy. Don't buy the newest vehicles, always something with just a few years on it. I think if you just live within your means it can be done. At least I hope so. Health issues are my biggest concern. That may be the show stopper.

topsites
08-21-2005, 10:30 PM
i'll tell you why. at 40.5 years old, i am just starting to realize my mortality. this year, the sun feels much hotter, the weedwacker feels alot heavier, and 60 minutes feels alot like 75. there is no way in hell, a man can do this alone, for 20 years, let alone 40, and generate any kind of an income suitable for raising a family. no way

I won't entirely disagree with you thou it does depend on people's standards and how they do their finances. But even watching your p's and q's every step of the way, I find it challenging to support myself at times but not at others... Would I be able to carry someone else on this?
The real question is am I willing?
The simple answer is no, I am not willing, not for most of them anyhow.
So she can work, too.

bobbygedd
08-21-2005, 10:33 PM
yes, but a man should not lower his lifestyle, to match his income, he should instead, raise his income, to meet his desired lifestyle.

Lake Claire Lawn Ranger
08-21-2005, 10:37 PM
I haven't lowered my lifestyle. I've always been poor :D

topsites
08-21-2005, 10:40 PM
Jtrice, you know how some people say there is a hidden message in bobbys posts? Well it was here also, but this time he spelled it out for you. The awnser is no, and I say that at just under 40. I am hoping for 2 more years of mowing till I can just supervise.

Don't be so fast to blame the HEAT on old age, this has been one of the HOTTEST summers in the United States for some time and there is this thing called global warming but all that is another story.
...

Is there really THAT much a change from 38.5 to 40.5 ??? Because I hurt from it too, but that's standard fare comes with age, no pain no gain and it's going to hurt worse next year so I get used to it and eat lots of motrin when the pain gets so bad I can't MOVE or get out of bed without screaming in agony, but other than that I get up every day and go to work.
...
Would I still do it had I started when I was 18? Not likely because I would never have experienced the sad state of affairs involved when working WITH or FOR other people, something which today I can honestly say I do not see myself going back to, I don't think my mind can take another dose of that kind of psychosis (and it IS psychosis, I can't believe most people tolerate that $h!7 day in and day out). So faced with the option of dealing with their psychosis or taking on more physical pain, bring it on baby, give me real physical pain anytime, it actually feels good once you learn to like it.
...
Besides, I know the work is hard but it's only hard when there IS work, so I work my tail off for 3 months in spring, then it's half-days for Jul-Aug, then it stays pretty busy september-december but not as bad as spring and by mid-january I get to take off until March! 45+ days vacation / year, I just got back from a 10-day trip to Switzerland, honestly I don't think it gets much better than this in some ways.

topsites
08-21-2005, 10:42 PM
You bring up a great topic. I'm same age as you and have been doing this work solo for 12 years. The last couple of years ive really started to notice that the ole body doesnt recover as fast as it used to. Going out to do back to back days of putting down 12 yards of mulch each day is no longer so easy. I've decided to start passing on the mulching jobs and sticking more to just mowing. I think my body could easily handle just mowing for another 10-20 years, but cutting back to maybe 40 yards or less after age 50.
As far as surviving on just a mowing income, it really highly depends on your lifestyle. If you grew up a saver and planned early for retirement and lived within your means, surviving comfortably on even $30,000 a year isnt so hard. Health insurance is one of the bigger obstacles to be able to handle once you start aging if youre paying it yourself. But keeping your overall expenses under control makes life a whole lot easier. Not having the expense of raising kids tends to help too!

uhhh, 30,000/year is my gross what the hell you mean surviving, I can survive on less than 10,000 / year but no, no kids, no thanks.

bobbygedd
08-21-2005, 10:46 PM
it isn't that much of a change from 38 to 40, no. but, for the first time in my life, i feel it. mildly, yes, but i'm wise enough to know, it only gets worse. i am not solo. a solo income could never satisfy my desires. and again, a solo could never keep the pace, he needs to keep, for 40 yrs. i've never seen it yet. i know one guy who's at it, completely solo, for 20 yrs now. he only makes about 55k a year. works long hrs, and looks like he's gonna die any minute

Envy Lawn Service
08-21-2005, 10:46 PM
yes, but a man should not lower his lifestyle, to match his income, he should instead, raise his income, to meet his desired lifestyle.

Yes, but you also have to remain realistic, which may mean a change in business plans, a change in business and personal lifestyle to meet those plans or in this case, a change in fields.

What I mean is, it can be a challenge to provide a certain higher level of lifestyle while working part-time hours as you please in a seasonal business... Not without making some good plans and some real changes.

topsites
08-21-2005, 10:48 PM
Health insurance is the killer.I mow alone on my stuff,about 10 yards.Help another guy for one very full day.I also work in a factory 4 twelve hour days a week.The factory job pays some of my health-life insurance policy(company provided).But the kicker is I've already paid over 2600 dollars out of my pay checks this year in medical ins.When I first started working here everything was paid for.Now it goes up next year agin.
I used to work overtime all the time but more duductions,more taxes and I said I have got to do something different.Started helping this guy then got my own mower.My job at the factory is easy.Way easier than mowing.The mowing pays alot beter tho.
I have two kids and awife and there is no way I would want to pay for a medical insurance policy on all off us.My boss heard about me mowing and asked if I was going to quit and I said for what I'm doing now I would almost just work for the insurance.In the next few years it will be medical insurances/expenses that put a lot of small buisniess's out,mowing or other wise.
So after going on and on and everybody out there noding off twice I don't feel like I could make it solo.

See this is what I don't understand, why do you need health insurance?
The United States and its healthcare facilities are a scandalous lot of thieves intent on ripping everyone off with their outrageous rates but you see, for a thousand dollars you can get a 2-way airplane ticket to germany or switzerland and there you walk into any hospital and it's a LOT cheaper and if you're smart and put your money aside instead of paying the paper pushers to give you 'insurance,' I believe you'll come out ahead, especially at the tune of 3-4 thousand dollars/ year.
It is 4-6 times cheaper to get medical attention in Europe, you can buy the airplane ticket AND have money left over when compared to doing the insurance bit so f*k the USA on this one.

Envy Lawn Service
08-21-2005, 10:49 PM
The Green Industry is no different than any other industry.
It's wise to plan a realistic standard of living and plan an exit strategy.

It other words, you need to live a bit below your means and position yourself to where you don't REQUIRE a great deal of income all of your life. In other words, although you may charge what an attorney charges per hour, you certainly can't expect to live like one. You have to have a more modest approach to material things and achieve major life goals in a shorter period of time.

This way you can get while the getting is good, aquire and pay for what you need, and then put some of your money to work for you in other ways, and work your exit plan strategy along the way.

But, it is also important to understand that in today's economy, rather you and I like it or not, it's very hard to get where you want to be in life without the husband and wife both being wage earners.

But anyways Bobby, as I read more and more of your posts, I really hope you have an exit strategy already in place for the near future.

why do you say that?

I assume you were asking me that question from the quoted post?

So which part are you asking me about?

fourseasonlawns
08-22-2005, 02:03 AM
Subject: The Cost of Raising a Child


The government recently calculated the cost of raising a child from birth to 18 and came up with $160,140 for a middle-income family. Talk about sticker shock! That doesn't even touch college tuition. But $160,140 isn't so bad if you break it down.

It translates into:
* $8,896.66 a year,
* $741.38 a month, or
* $171.08 a week.
* That's a mere $24.24 a day!
* Just over a dollar an hour.
Still, you might think the best financial advice is don't have children if you want to be "rich."


I didn't get into this business to do it by myself the rest of my life. The old schoolers I see around have said they retired from something else. THis is all side money to them.
My wife's employment covers our health insurance. Family insurance is too expensive to pay by yourself.

I think there is a lot easier and better ways to produce income solo than laboring in the weather. Very few things last over 40 years in the weather, just sitting there, much less being used. How's that old fence gate you put up 12 years ago? I bet it's a little weathered!

someone said income hasn't increased in this business "much" in the last 20 years. What were gasoline prices 20 years ago?
A few dimes or a couple quarters?

I'm not trying to discourage anyone, but one person? Superman, maybe.

Mr.Mow-It-All
08-22-2005, 04:37 AM
I haven't lowered my lifestyle. I've always been poor :D


Poor is just a state of mind. I have never been poor. I have been B.R.O.K.E. before, but never poor! :cool2:

Turf Dancer
08-22-2005, 05:28 AM
It would be possible here if we were able to get $30 for a minimum, that is not even close to being the case here. So I would say that a solo guy could not make a living with a wife and a couple kids here. I barely make it through the winter with the accounts I have as a single guy.

Evergreenpros
08-22-2005, 05:54 AM
Actually the average household income is about 42,000 a year in America. Can you make it at a job without your wife working nowadays? And still have all the things you want? I doubt it.

Not sure where you get your health insurance but for 14000 a year, you're getting ripped off.

A person can work in landscaping until they die. Maybe you can't do the same things as when you were 20, nor as much, you just have to work smart. You also have to improve your accounts every year. It's hard to believe a guy who has been in landscape maintenance for 30 years is still getting the same price for his services as a guy who just started. If you are, you're wrong, big time. Time to brush up on basic marketing, take some classes or get some books.

By my best guesstamates, I average 1 good customer for every 5 that I sign. A good customer are those that are classified as:
1. Paying above the normal rate because they are not only purchasing landscape maintenance, they are buying YOU!!!!!
2. Loyal
3. Trustworthy (professionally)

So if you pick up 50 customers and only have 10 good ones out of the bunch, what does that mean?

Here is the fork in the road many business owners come to. You either keep all your customers and go through hell and high water to keep them (remember 40 of 50 are NOT good customer) OR you build in a customer turnover.

This takes basic elements:
1. CONSTANT advertising (5-10% of projected gross)
2. Identify your good customers, and be honest. Heck you might not have any.
3. Determine what your customer turnover will be and track it.

Remember, since you're by yourself, you have to turn over clients to get the good ones. Keep the good ones and rollover the not good ones.

I would rather sit in a truck doing estimates and talking with potential customers than beating myself into the ground to do umpteen million $20 lawns a day just to pay some bills. Don't compete against the illegals with stolen equipment, or the businesses who employ people and can make a living doing umpteen $20 lawns everday. You have to market something that is unique, something only you have, and that is YOU!!!

bobbygedd
08-22-2005, 06:28 AM
I assume you were asking me that question from the quoted post?

So which part are you asking me about?
the part about me having an exit strategy in the near future

Remsen1
08-22-2005, 11:47 AM
if you start at 18, do fertilization/chemicals, mowing,etc- property maint, and small landscapes, staying completely solo, and within a couple years, pay a mortgage, support a wife +2 kids, pay for health benefits, etc........how long can you do this? CAN YOU even do this? assuming it's a seasonal area, where you work 9 months a year. how many years, before you either pack it in, or the elements beat the hell out of you, or kill you. OR, can you do it till your 60? that's 42 years, for those of you who are mathematically challenged. i say it can't be done. i don't care if you're superman, or even me. you would have to carry about 70 lawn mowing clients, mowing is the steadiest part of the business, you need this. even if you can squeeze out $30 a piece for these residentials, you'd get $2100 a week x 36 weeks=$75,600. even if, you got extras, that tallied up another $25,000 for the year, you'd be at 100k gross. your operating costs would be about $20,000 a year. you are now down to 80k. your health insurence would be about $14,000, now you are down to $66,000. uncle sam gets something, let's say 10 grand, now, you are left with 56k. your mortgage is 2 grand a month, or, 24k a year, now you're down to 32k. car payments 300 per month, or $3600 a year, leaves you $28,400. auto insurence, $1400, you are down to $27,000. utilities +phone= about $3000. now, you are down to $24,000. life insurence about $1740. now you are at $22260. this covers everything, except food, clothing, and entertainment, vacations, etc. you now have about $428 a week, left for food (about $200 a week) clothing, entertainment, baseball game, amusement park, whatever. this is cutting it real close. using the numbers i gave , it can be done, but i prefer a more pleasant lifestyle. oh yea, and get sick, get rained out, get beat on a few payments, those numbers crumble. tell me, can a solo man, make a carreer, as a solo op, and live a decent life? i say no, no way, never.


With $20,000 in business expenses + $24,000 per year mortage + 4 excemptions, you oughta be getting a decent tax return.

A $24,000 mortage would be unheard of for an average 3 bedroom 2 bath house in my region. Mortage would be more like $900/mo or $10,800/year. But along with lower housing costs comes lower income and lower labor rate so this may very well wash out.

With all that said, I still tend to agree with you. In this day and age the wife needs to work too, or you need to be more than solo, or you have found some niche somewhere where mowing is much more profitable than most areas. With your scenario above if the wife clears $2,000 month then that could be your fun money.

Shuter
08-22-2005, 11:53 AM
I have been doing it for 5 years now. I hope by the time my youngest (10 now) is in college then I will change to a less physical business.

Envy Lawn Service
08-22-2005, 10:27 PM
the part about me having an exit strategy in the near future

:angry: I just WASTED a good chunk of my life typing an explaination :angry:

But lately it seems that every friggin time I type more than three sentences or so, it friggin hangs up the second I click 'Submit Reply' and all is lost.

Is anyone else having excessive trouble with this lately?

LwnmwrMan22
08-22-2005, 10:31 PM
:angry: I just WASTED a good chunk of my life typing an explaination :angry:

But lately it seems that every friggin time I type more than three sentences or so, it friggin hangs up the second I click 'Submit Reply' and all is lost.

Is anyone else having excessive trouble with this lately?

My responses have taken a little longer than normal, about 4-5-6 seconds longer, usually if I've brought it up through Outlook Express.

Envy Lawn Service
08-22-2005, 10:42 PM
My responses have taken a little longer than normal, about 4-5-6 seconds longer, usually if I've brought it up through Outlook Express.

In my case it often just locks up this window completely.

I just got through posting in a thread started about this over in the support forum.

http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?p=1115000#post1115000

:realmad: