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View Full Version : One more Drive 75 Question.....


GREENITUP
08-23-2005, 12:09 PM
I've done a few searches and come up with some conflicting advise on what adjuvant to use with Drive 75. Yes - I know the label reads MSO.... but it can be hard to find. Some use Lesco spreader sticker (non-ionic) and say they have good results with it. Other posts say it doesn't work and only MSO will deliver results. Which is true? I already have Lesco sticker and am only concerned with post-emergent crab grass control. Thanks. :confused:

tngreen
08-23-2005, 01:59 PM
I have used Lesco's spreader sticker with drive and not had any problems, just make sure you are mixing the drive at the correct rates.

cemars
08-23-2005, 05:15 PM
I've done a few searches and come up with some conflicting advise on what adjuvant to use with Drive 75. Yes - I know the label reads MSO.... but it can be hard to find. Some use Lesco spreader sticker (non-ionic) and say they have good results with it. Other posts say it doesn't work and only MSO will deliver results. Which is true? I already have Lesco sticker and am only concerned with post-emergent crab grass control. Thanks. :confused:

I talked with a rep from BASF at one time about this and he said that MSO is recommended if you are trying to get both pre and post control or pre control only. For post only, spreader sticker is fine. The difference is the MSO allows the active to more easily reach the soil level as opposed to keeping it stuck to the blade.

LonniesLawns
08-24-2005, 12:59 AM
MSO is reccommended because it spreads the AI on the lef while laos allowing it to go into the soil. Just as Cemars said.

MSO can be found though.

PSUturf
08-24-2005, 11:51 PM
I've had good results using Lesco Spreader/ Sticker at 2 pints per 100 gallons of water with a boom sprayer (Toro MultiPro)

Jason Rose
08-25-2005, 01:00 AM
Ok, I don't mean to pick on you and hijack your thread... But why is everyone on the bandwagon to kill crabgrass in late august (almost september now)??? Crabgrass should have been dealt with via a preemergent in the early spring/late winter (technically) I understand that if you started on a property late and there was no pre-emerge applied then you need to look into post emergent control such as drive, acclaim, ect. in may or june when it's appearing/ waiting till nearly fall to kill it is waaay past time to try, and heck, in a few weeks (even less in the north) things are cooling off and the crab will be slowing and dying on it's own.

If I take on a lawn mid season and there's crab present I just tell them that it's there and that's all there is too it, It will have to be addressed and taken care of the following season. I have yet to run into anyone that couldn't grasp that. Grassy weeds are just too commonly related to GRASS, thus making selective control, expecially later in the season, next to impossible. Broadleaf weeds are simple in comparison, other than violet...

Sorry if I have ranted... Like I said, I have seen about 6 posts here in the last 2 weeks about killing crabgrass... I guess hindsight is always 20/20.

MOW ED
08-25-2005, 07:32 AM
Jason,
I am up north and there is still a good amount of growing to do. Fall is the biggest and most important growth time for our lawns. Some crab infestations can be rather large and also unsightly. Pre emerg up here lasts for a month and a few weeks in spring. There is a major resurgence in the fall. I don't have many people who care about controlling crab but the ones that do have high profile lawns.

Back to the thread, I have found MSO at a farmers co-op but have not purchased it yet. I have had pretty good luck with non-ionic surfactant. Interesting stuff about the difference in the two for crab control. Has anyone noticed pre-em control from Drive when using MSO? I know its kind of a difficult thing to measure. Lets keep talking grass I need to recover from the drought before the leaves fall.

PSUturf
08-25-2005, 07:46 PM
Just a comment on the pre vs. post emerge control for crabgrass. Pre emergent control would definitely be my first choice for a high quality residential or commercial property. Sometimes it is more economically feasible to use post emergent control on large properties such as a golf course. I spend about $800 on Drive to control crabgrass on a golf course. If I had gone with Dimension as a pre / early post emerge it would have cost several thousand dollars to treat the same area.

Yes it is getting late in the season to kill crabgrass. I might be inclined to kill it now if it hasn't put out seedheads yet just to prevent adding to the seed bank.

GREENITUP
08-26-2005, 08:07 AM
Thanks for the insight. I was only concerned with post emergent control because 1] that is one of the grassy-weeds still going strong in my area and 2] I do split apps. of Dimension between late Feb. and May to head off as much as possible. They say an ounce of prevention = a pound of cure (or Drive in this case)..... :drinkup:

GREENITUP
08-31-2005, 08:28 AM
What do you guys use to measure this product in the field for spot apps? I think the cap is incremented every 2 oz. - or is it 1 oz.. Either way - I like to only mix as much as needed at any given time and @ .367 oz. / 1000, if you are only treating 2000k - how do you measure .734 oz.??? I'd like to use one of those old metal cooking measuring spoons, but not sure which size or how accurate that would be.

MrBarefoot
08-31-2005, 08:35 AM
What do you guys use to measure this product in the field for spot apps? I think the cap is incremented every 2 oz. - or is it 1 oz.. Either way - I like to only mix as much as needed at any given time and @ .367 oz. / 1000, if you are only treating 2000k - how do you measure .734 oz.??? I'd like to use one of those old metal cooking measuring spoons, but not sure which size or how accurate that would be.

The 1.5 oz bottle comes with a measuring cup with .367 oz graduations. I bought one 1.5 oz bottle just to get the measuring cup.

Funny they don't sell the cups you need with the larger bottles....

timturf
08-31-2005, 04:51 PM
Just a comment on the pre vs. post emerge control for crabgrass. Pre emergent control would definitely be my first choice for a high quality residential or commercial property. Sometimes it is more economically feasible to use post emergent control on large properties such as a golf course. I spend about $800 on Drive to control crabgrass on a golf course. If I had gone with Dimension as a pre / early post emerge it would have cost several thousand dollars to treat the same area.

Yes it is getting late in the season to kill crabgrass. I might be inclined to kill it now if it hasn't put out seedheads yet just to prevent adding to the seed bank. very excellent point

DUSTYCEDAR
08-31-2005, 05:12 PM
never looked at it that way as only a post app

westwind
09-01-2005, 08:43 AM
Ok, I don't mean to pick on you and hijack your thread... But why is everyone on the bandwagon to kill crabgrass in late august (almost september now)??? Crabgrass should have been dealt with via a preemergent in the early spring/late winter (technically) I understand that if you started on a property late and there was no pre-emerge applied then you need to look into post emergent control such as drive, acclaim, ect. in may or june when it's appearing/ waiting till nearly fall to kill it is waaay past time to try, and heck, in a few weeks (even less in the north) things are cooling off and the crab will be slowing and dying on it's own.

If I take on a lawn mid season and there's crab present I just tell them that it's there and that's all there is too it, It will have to be addressed and taken care of the following season. I have yet to run into anyone that couldn't grasp that. Grassy weeds are just too commonly related to GRASS, thus making selective control, expecially later in the season, next to impossible. Broadleaf weeds are simple in comparison, other than violet...

Sorry if I have ranted... Like I said, I have seen about 6 posts here in the last 2 weeks about killing crabgrass... I guess hindsight is always 20/20.
extremely wet spring up here, even with pre-m down early, my best lawns have crabgrass in them. Plus why would'nt you spray drive if you can charge a ton. 100.00 per app. for a small average yard is what were getting.

timturf
09-01-2005, 10:01 AM
extremely wet spring up here, even with pre-m down early, my best lawns have crabgrass in them. Plus why would'nt you spray drive if you can charge a ton. 100.00 per app. for a small average yard is what were getting.

Try to put pre emerge down just before crab/goose germinates

Don't use chemical unless necessary!!!!!!!!!!!!

DUSTYCEDAR
09-01-2005, 10:02 AM
i did 2 apps of dim this year and have had great results with no crabgrass
a little arounds the edges but nothing bad

timturf
09-01-2005, 10:25 AM
I applied one application of dimension ~ 4/20/05 at, or when I saw first signs of crab germination in area's I NORMALLY DON'T TREAT.

Saw very, very, little crabgrass in area's I treat.
My rate was .26ai/acre carrier was 50% bio solids, rest of n from methylene urea, k from sop

I question why people do two applications, I believe many people apply too soon! I wouldn't start until crab is about to germinat, especially using a product that does limitive post. Again, you need to know how long it will take to apply the pre emerge.

crabgrass germinates when soil hits 55 degress at sunrise, at a 3" depth, 3 consecutive days, while goose germinates at 60 degrees.

DUSTYCEDAR
09-01-2005, 10:52 AM
i go out in april with my first app of dim it was the last 2 weeks in april
then again in the last 2 weeks of june
if i dont do 2apps i have crab bad and lose people and i have a friend that treats next to some of my lawns he only did 1 app and he has a mess now so ill do 2 and not have to spray

topsites
09-01-2005, 11:17 AM
Jason,
I am up north and there is still a good amount of growing to do. Fall is the biggest and most important growth time for our lawns. Some crab infestations can be rather large and also unsightly. Pre emerg up here lasts for a month and a few weeks in spring. There is a major resurgence in the fall. I don't have many people who care about controlling crab but the ones that do have high profile lawns.

Back to the thread, I have found MSO at a farmers co-op but have not purchased it yet. I have had pretty good luck with non-ionic surfactant. Interesting stuff about the difference in the two for crab control. Has anyone noticed pre-em control from Drive when using MSO? I know its kind of a difficult thing to measure. Lets keep talking grass I need to recover from the drought before the leaves fall.

It's the same here, first you waste time and money applying pre-em in Spring but it doesn't last that long so then you waste more time and money fighting crabgrass in August... Sorry, the stuff is stubborn enough it FEELS like a waste to fight it somedays.

timturf
09-01-2005, 11:18 AM
dusty,

what was the ai/a of the april application? On fert carrier? What anaylsis? Lbs of fert/m?

I assume the june application is on a fert carrier, what is the anaylsis? Lbs of fert/m? % ai/a of dimension in this application?


Your friend who does one app When did he make the app, and what was the % ai/a of dimension in that application?

tim

timturf
09-01-2005, 11:20 AM
It's the same here, first you waste time and money applying pre-em in Spring but it doesn't last that long so then you waste more time and money fighting crabgrass in August... Sorry, the stuff is stubborn enough it FEELS like a waste to fight it somedays.

I think I would re evalueate my pre emerge material, rate, and application timing? Probly should look over the total fert program!

DUSTYCEDAR
09-01-2005, 11:50 AM
i used lesco 13-2-5
DIMENSION .15% PLUS FERT
went at the 3.82 lbs per 1000 rate both times
last year i got lots of rain and had failer at the lower rate
this year less rain and much better control
my friend used the same stuff at the same rate but only 1 app and is now spraying lots of acclaim :cry: