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exandscag
08-25-2005, 08:53 AM
This 1996'ish 22hp kohler is killing me!!!
Has good compression(100+psi) , good spark , clean carb and is getting fuel.
I did a leak down test on both cylinders and both checked out good.
So WHY will it not start or even give me a spuder?
I even sprayed starter fluid down the carb just to get something and still nothing!
I have been working on motors for most of my life so I like to think I know what I am doing. But this machine wonts to just make a fool of me. lol
You name it I try'ed it.
What bothers me the most is when I do get it to start(we are talking just the rite combination of choke , throttle and lots and lots of cranking) It runs great! No misses , no backfires and cuts great.
Could it be something to do with the governor? I try'ed just about every thing els.
If you look at my other post(very hard starting 22hp kohler) http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=116835
I have the combination on how to start it and also some of the things I already try'ed .

Thanks for any input

MBDiagMan
08-25-2005, 09:41 AM
This is a problem much more common with the much smaller engines, but have you checked the crankshaft key? If you can get your hands on a manual and check ignition timing I think it would be a worthwhile step.

Best of luck,
Doc

Grass Man
08-25-2005, 10:11 AM
.... I think MBDiagMan is on the right track. I was going to suggest timing myself. Years ago I had an identical condition as you are having now, it does NOT take much. The “KEY” on the shaft had shifted do to hard use and a soft metal “KEY”. After realigning the shaft and replacing the “KEY” my problem disappeared.

.... Good luck and would like to hear your outcome :).


This is a problem much more common with the much smaller engines, but have you checked the crankshaft key? If you can get your hands on a manual and check ignition timing I think it would be a worthwhile step.

Best of luck,
Doc

exandscag
08-25-2005, 11:15 AM
Ok I am going to check the key and shaft tonight.
Also how would you check timing ? Do i need a special timing lite of some sort?

Grass Man
08-25-2005, 12:08 PM
.... Not trying to side step your question. I would need to know more about your engine. It's been a while for me. The manual should tell you. But, if you check the “KEY” and “KEY WAY” and it is aligned correctly, then most likely your timing is dead on. As I stated before, it doesn't take MUCH to be off. Not knowing your engine, while you have it apart check and make sure your electrical components are aligned and in there rightful places and are tight and secure. Of course, the best way to do this correctly is to read and fully understand the manual the same as I would have to do.

.... Good luck, keep us posted as to your progress :).


Ok I am going to check the key and shaft tonight.
Also how would you check timing ? Do i need a special timing lite of some sort?

exandscag
08-25-2005, 12:14 PM
It's a 22hp Kohler cv22
Thanks for the tips

a a green
08-25-2005, 03:19 PM
I had an identical problem with a kohler 20 it turned out to be a fusible link...go figure. I don't know what exactly it was controlling but, when you would get it started it would sputter and if you got the choke and fuel just right it would run but as soon as you put a load on the motor it would die out. I know it sounds funny but check the fuses and check the fusible links. If It has any. hope this helps, I also thought mine was a timing problem.

Grass Man
08-25-2005, 04:01 PM
.... Yes, I too have had those “go figure” problems or should I say opportunities also. Have a Tecumseh engine that would ONLY idle VERY slowly. If you touched the throttle it stopped dead, if you breathed on it it would stopped dead. Yes dead, that sensitive. Checked just about everything and everything looked good, scratched my head on that one. Come to find out there was a TINY hair line crack, right at the base of the spark plug (barely see it). Changed the plug, haven't had a problem with it since.

.... Sometimes another set of eyes and ears or two see things that one may overlook or NOT see completely, different point of view and or different frame of mind. I know you used the word funny but the truth of the matter is all those STRANGE circumstances need to be checked out.

.... Sharing your sentiments :).



I had an identical problem with a kohler 20 it turned out to be a fusible link...go figure. I don't know what exactly it was controlling but, when you would get it started it would sputter and if you got the choke and fuel just right it would run but as soon as you put a load on the motor it would die out. I know it sounds funny but check the fuses and check the fusible links. If It has any. hope this helps, I also thought mine was a timing problem.

a a green
08-25-2005, 04:30 PM
yes , I did use the word "Funny", thats only because I had to laugh at myself for not looking at the obvious things first. You are correct the better word in that case should be "Strange". It is one of those things you look at 100 times and still don't think that could be the problem. When you realize it is you just have to laugh at yourself.... :) otherwise you'll get :angry: :realmad:

exandscag
08-26-2005, 08:40 AM
Thanks for the input.
Had to much work to do yesterday so all i was able to do was disconnect the oil level switch to see if that would change anything. It did not .
Today if time permits I plan on going over the hole elc. system with a meter just to make sher all wires go and function like they should.
Also plan on pulling the fly weal to check the key.
I just have this funny feeling that it's going to be something small that I could have picked up on if I did a elc system check first instead of expecting the worst and jumping rite into that. Some times we make rookie mistakes just to keep us from thinking we know everything. :dizzy: :dizzy: LOL
Well anyway if it turns out to be something small like I now expect it to be I will expect and deserve razing from some of you's . ;)
Thanks every one this site really is the best out there.

Tvov
08-26-2005, 08:48 AM
I know you said it had good spark, but is the spark plug new? If not, replace it.

Also, are ALL "safety" switches/systems working correctly? Some mower have so many switches, it can be hard to check them all. I've had a similar situation (everything checks out, would pull and pull, after starting engine ran great) and it turned out to be a loose safety switch. The extended pulling would eventually jiggle the switch so it would work. Once started, the switch didn't affect operation.

exandscag
08-28-2005, 10:35 AM
Well I got time to work on the peace of !@#$ yesterday.
After going threw the hole elc. sys. and finding nothing. I decided to (even though the flywheel , key-way , coils , SAM box and the rest of the timing system checked out to be rite) take off the flywheel again , take out the key and replace the flywheel in a different location. Well after doing this a # of time's to find the best location it is dun!! The key-way fall's one key-way width next to were it should be.
So now we have the new Qua. Y!!!
Its off to far to say something moved. So I am leaning towards maybe the flywheel is not the rite one for the machine. Either way it rules out all other couldbe's .
What do you all think about this one. Its a first for me. LOL
Bye the way it is running very well and starts good . No i don't plan on running it like this. I wont it rite :cry:
Thanks again for any and all help :help:

a a green
08-28-2005, 11:22 AM
just wondering how it could be the wrong flywheel?... it is the original flywheel correct?

TURFLORD
08-28-2005, 01:31 PM
Is this engine really worth all this time. Maybe jusy go buy a new one for about $1200. All that time spent fixing could be time spent earning. :)

a a green
08-28-2005, 02:35 PM
Is this engine really worth all this time. Maybe jusy go buy a new one for about $1200. All that time spent fixing could be time spent earning. :)


That dont sound like a bad Idea. we actually have a spare motor for just that reason. when you have down time you can make the repairs...

Grass Man
08-28-2005, 02:44 PM
... #1, I am surprised you have more than one KEY way slot in that fly wheel. Usually it's just one. Unless of course it's used universally. #2, They may have intended for it to run in the ******ed mode. That way you can burn just about any kind of gas and then some, new, old, whatever. As I understand it, SCAG's Kawasaki engine is setup this way for just that reason. I do know they backfire from time to time. When you reset your fly wheel you didn't say whether it was advanced or ******ed by one KEY width? By the way, one KEY width is a lot of distance. I was looking for more like a 1/64, 1/32 or even a 1/16. You may very well have it set correctly NOW.

.... These are some of my thoughts off the top :), keep us posted.


Well I got time to work on the peace of !@#$ yesterday.
After going threw the hole elc. sys. and finding nothing. I decided to (even though the flywheel , key-way , coils , SAM box and the rest of the timing system checked out to be rite) take off the flywheel again , take out the key and replace the flywheel in a different location. Well after doing this a # of time's to find the best location it is dun!! The key-way fall's one key-way width next to were it should be.
So now we have the new Qua. Y!!!
Its off to far to say something moved. So I am leaning towards maybe the flywheel is not the rite one for the machine. Either way it rules out all other couldbe's .
What do you all think about this one. Its a first for me. LOL
Bye the way it is running very well and starts good . No i don't plan on running it like this. I wont it rite :cry:
Thanks again for any and all help :help:

exandscag
08-28-2005, 05:15 PM
OK first and for most this is not my machine. It belongs to my cousin and he got it from one of his clients because it was sitting in her yard for the last 2-3 years . It seems the person that did her lot be for him just left it there and vanished. Sounds funny but thats the truth.
Next we in CT have had little to no rain in the last mouth so I am very slow.
So this thing turned into more of an opposition more then anything els.
As for the flywheel having two key way's . Thats is not I what I met. I met was if it had another key way rite next to the one on the flywheel (advanced side) that is were the flywheel sits now. Remember I took the key out so I could try this test.
To bye a new motor just because I am having trouble finding the exact reason for it's problem makes no sense to me. Its not like it has a major rod knock or bad compression . All the rite things for a good running motor are there.
Thanks again

Grass Man
08-28-2005, 11:32 PM
.... I agree with you, it makes NO sense to me ether, there is nothing wrong with the present engine that can't be fixed :).


OK first and for most this is not my machine. It belongs to my cousin and he got it from one of his clients because it was sitting in her yard for the last 2-3 years . It seems the person that did her lot be for him just left it there and vanished. Sounds funny but thats the truth.
Next we in CT have had little to no rain in the last mouth so I am very slow.
So this thing turned into more of an opposition more then anything els.
As for the flywheel having two key way's . Thats is not I what I met. I met was if it had another key way rite next to the one on the flywheel (advanced side) that is were the flywheel sits now. Remember I took the key out so I could try this test.
To bye a new motor just because I am having trouble finding the exact reason for it's problem makes no sense to me. Its not like it has a major rod knock or bad compression . All the rite things for a good running motor are there.
Thanks again

a a green
08-31-2005, 06:17 PM
Ok the reason for the new motor would be, Because I was under the impression that you were using this machine for work purposes. now I understand that it isnt that urgent that you have it up and running right away. So with that being the case a new motor isnt the way to go. geez :dizzy: :dizzy: :dizzy: ;)

rick2752
08-31-2005, 06:28 PM
Have you posted this on the mechanic and repair forum? A couple of the guys there are really great. There are some links there if you search for the Kohler repair manual you can print for free. Where are you getting fuel at? Out of the filter or in the carb. The carb may have what mine does and it is an electronic selenoid that lets the fuel into the carb bowl. Check and see if you have voltage at the carb selenoid. I had a loose wire on the ignition key and wasnt getting juice to the carb selenoid. It would crank and crank and would run when I moved the throttle a little back and forth. Just my pennies.