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lawn_jockey
08-26-2005, 02:31 AM
Short Story. New guy telling me the HOA fired his Biz because they didn't like his workers. Right about the time I was telling him about Lawnsite... around the corner came his 9 and 10 year old boys pushing honda residential 21's. I gave him the evil eye, did an about face and walked away shakin my head in disbelief.
This is Texas 103 degree heat at about 3pm.

JimLewis
08-26-2005, 03:07 AM
I was reading and re-reading your post trying to figure out what the big deal is. I didn't understand what your problem with this guy was. But then I finally figured it out. And you're right! I can't believe it! That's just stupid.

Two kids born within a year of one another? That's just asking for trouble. The sleepless nights alone in those early years would do most people in. Obviously this guy shows questionable judgement. I wouldn't want him working for me either. Everyone knows if you wanna keep your sanity you should space kids out by at least 2-3 years.

:p

lawn_jockey
08-26-2005, 03:15 AM
When you see a sign that says father and Sons mowing, you would think the sons were adults too. The Dad was like 30. He said this was his third year.

MBDiagMan
08-26-2005, 04:32 AM
I'm sorry, but I still don't get it. When I was 9 I was mowing lawns with a push, rotary mower in the DFW area heat, and did quite a few yards some of them being blocks away and yes I did plenty of them at 3PM. It didn't do me any harm.

I do think that the guy should have been truthful in the reason he was firing the LCO instead of saying that it was because he didn't like the workers.

Have a great day,
Doc

geogunn
08-26-2005, 06:32 AM
Right about the time I was telling him about Lawnsite...

you question that guys judgment yet you tell your competion about LAWNSITE? interesting.

GEO :dizzy:

z_clark
08-26-2005, 10:08 AM
That is terrible. I agree w/ the HOA for getting rid of this guy. You can't have young kids out pushing mowers in this heat! I was out with my two man crew yesterday, the three of us went thought the 5 gallon watter jug, plus a few Gatorade.

They are calling for another 100 + day again....just a week till September though!

GrassBustersLawn
08-26-2005, 11:31 AM
HELLO...I know Texas WAS the WILD WILD WEST...but PLEASE! Don't you have CHILD LABOR LAWS THERE????? In Indiana, you can't have anyone under 16 running POWER EQUIPMENT. Man, you'd get put in jail here for that crap! I could see possibly trying to get away with on residentials, but it is pretty ballsy of him to try using them on a HOA or commercial sites. I guess HOA was just interested in LOW DOLLAR BID when they hired him. Doesn't sound like they bothered checking INSURANCE, because NO ONE would write insurance on someone using kids!

Mike

Sharp Services
08-26-2005, 11:56 AM
Like I have said many times before. I have six kids, four of which are boys. There is no way I would use them on a paid job, just to save money. I have five acres at the house if they want to run a mower. But please, don't take the kids to work with you, they have plenty of time for that. Also ... I am a cop and could arrest some one for using kids under 16, especially using heavy equipment.

Just my 2 cents worth,

GreenUtah
08-26-2005, 12:17 PM
HELLO...I know Texas WAS the WILD WILD WEST...but PLEASE! Don't you have CHILD LABOR LAWS THERE????? In Indiana, you can't have anyone under 16 running POWER EQUIPMENT.

ding ding ding....we have a winner...no power equipment for children..period...real nice when you send em back to school missing a finger or an eye...they DO go to school, right?!

wbw
08-26-2005, 12:59 PM
HELLO...I know Texas WAS the WILD WILD WEST...but PLEASE! Don't you have CHILD LABOR LAWS THERE????? In Indiana, you can't have anyone under 16 running POWER EQUIPMENT. Man, you'd get put in jail here for that crap!

Mike


These laws typically do not apply to farmers or family businesses.

MBDiagMan
08-26-2005, 02:09 PM
I guess I must be a freak of nature. How could I have been so lucky? I mowed hundreds of yards when I was 10 through about 15. I never lost a finger or an arm, and never died of heat prostration. What's even more amazing is that in the fifties and sixties there were NO safety devices WHATSOEVER, at least on the mowers that I ran.

What, are you afraid that a little sweat might hurt a kid. I propose that the opposite is true. Show me someone that worked hard when they were a kid, and I'll most likely show you someone who is not afraid of work as an adult.

Now. I do agree that if these kids are used for labor in someone elses business that is a crime and maybe the way the Dad is going about this is not good. But, a kid working hard and making a few bucks. What's wrong with that? They're using a lawn mower, not playing with dynamite.

Have a great day,
Doc

leadarrows
08-26-2005, 02:31 PM
Been working on the farm since I was 7. Drove my first Johny Popper by myself then as well. Kid should be put to work as soon as possible. Gives then something to do besides being couch potatoes.

betterlawn
08-26-2005, 02:47 PM
Any homeowner or business owner would have to be an utter moron to hire a 10 year old child (other than their own) to mow their lawn.

Its not necessary. If you want to make a 10 year old sweat, there are plenty of other ways to do it.

You have to be pretty damned sure the kid isn't going to lose a finger or a toe (on your insurance).

trying 2b organic
08-26-2005, 03:24 PM
There is a big difference in standards for HOA. Here they expect a pro. i.e. insurance, uniforms, workmans comp, and umm. adults workers. That is an incredible story.

And yes I started mowing my neighbours when i was 15, big big difference.

fga
08-26-2005, 03:28 PM
i started pretty young. when my dad would throw a belt on his tractor blades, i'd give him a hand..

DUSTYCEDAR
08-26-2005, 03:46 PM
i started mowing when i was 11 my grandpop let me loose with a pushmower
i think he had a few beers in him and was tired of mowing

Brianslawn
08-26-2005, 04:51 PM
whats really sad is a lot of customers will hire a couple kids that age to do there lawn without the dad present just to save some money

tjgray
08-26-2005, 05:00 PM
Were they doing the HOA on a Saturday *very unprofessional imho* Kids around here started back to school a couple of weeks ago....

We have let our son work for us this year but he is 17 and his dad still doesn't let him work un-supervised or handle any power equipment alone. Even at 17 he made several mistakes this year that his dad was able to catch because he was watching him so closely.

HometownLawn
08-26-2005, 05:05 PM
I'm sorry, I dont see the issue here. Its not like he was hiring some random 9-10 year old kid, they were his sons. Maybe its just because i grew up on a farm or something. At 9, i was running a case 450 crawler front end loader for my grandfather on the farm, at 10 i was driving tractors on the road with full loads of hay and a crew on the trailer, when i was 12 I couldnt wait until summer time because that meant it was time to bale hay

I dont see an issue as long as he's not like working them 10 hours with no water or breaks or anything.

People wonder why there are so many fat little kids and then everyone goes nuts when kids are doing something other than playing xbox where they actually break a sweat

ALarsh
08-26-2005, 05:21 PM
I started mowing the neighbors lawn at 10-11... and I just counted 10 fingers!! Still got em all

Dashunde
08-26-2005, 05:59 PM
This is America... our young children should not be considered viable industrial labor.

Conversly... If a kid at any age takes the initiative and starts mowing the neighbors yards and the kid pockets the $ for himself it all suddenly makes sense.
Same goes for family farm & land work.


But... if those two boys were 14 & 15... I say work their a$$'s off, but they still have very little [no] business working on Common Ground or commercial property.

twindiddy
08-26-2005, 07:43 PM
I was reading and re-reading your post trying to figure out what the big deal is. I didn't understand what your problem with this guy was. But then I finally figured it out. And you're right! I can't believe it! That's just stupid.

Two kids born within a year of one another? That's just asking for trouble. The sleepless nights alone in those early years would do most people in. Obviously this guy shows questionable judgement. I wouldn't want him working for me either. Everyone knows if you wanna keep your sanity you should space kids out by at least 2-3 years.

:p



Amen! I have two that were born on the same day. It's by far the hardest thing I've ever done.

What is sanity? :dizzy:

Joe721
08-26-2005, 08:05 PM
I started mowing when I was 10 with a 21" craftsman mower. You'll be okay as long as you have supervision and common sense, its not that hard.

JimLewis
08-26-2005, 09:24 PM
I'm sorry, I dont see the issue here. Its not like he was hiring some random 9-10 year old kid, they were his sons. Maybe its just because i grew up on a farm or something. At 9, i was running a case 450 crawler front end loader for my grandfather on the farm, at 10 i was driving tractors on the road with full loads of hay and a crew on the trailer, when i was 12 I couldnt wait until summer time because that meant it was time to bale hay

I dont see an issue as long as he's not like working them 10 hours with no water or breaks or anything.

People wonder why there are so many fat little kids and then everyone goes nuts when kids are doing something other than playing xbox where they actually break a sweat

AMEN!

Now I am not saying my kids are going to be out working 10 hour days mowing lawns at age 10. But there ain't nothing wrong with teaching kids some good work ethic. In fact, I think I'd rather someone teach their kids what good hard work is like - even at a young age - than have then pamper and spoil their little brat so that they never have to do any hard work at all.

At age 14, I was out at my family's nursery during the summers, on my knees pulling weeds in between the rows of tree seedlings for 8 hours per day, 40 hours per week. Of course, I also made more money than any of my other 14 year old friends were making. I didn't have as much free time in the summer. But I had a lot more money, and more importantly, it taught me a really good work ethic that about .002% of kids get these days.

grassmanvt
08-26-2005, 09:37 PM
AMEN!

Now I am not saying my kids are going to be out working 10 hour days mowing lawns at age 10. But there ain't nothing wrong with teaching kids some good work ethic. In fact, I think I'd rather someone teach their kids what good hard work is like - even at a young age - than have then pamper and spoil their little brat so that they never have to do any hard work at all.

At age 14, I was out at my family's nursery during the summers, on my knees pulling weeds in between the rows of tree seedlings for 8 hours per day, 40 hours per week. Of course, I also made more money than any of my other 14 year old friends were making. I didn't have as much free time in the summer. But I had a lot more money, and more importantly, it taught me a really good work ethic that about .002% of kids get these days.

I gotta agree with you guys. This guy might not of gone about it the right way but I see so many young and some not so young kids that wouldn't know what work was if it bit'em in the azz. It always amazes me when I get another residential were they "just don't have the time" anymore. They have all the equipment in the garage, and a 12-18 year old in the house doing nothing. We are embarking on generation lazy. Good for business, bad for being able to find decent workers.

MBDiagMan
08-26-2005, 09:56 PM
THANK GOODNESS!!! There are indeed some people here who don't see the problem with kids out working. After the first posts in this thread I thought I must really be a dinosaur.

THANKS,
Doc

yrdandgardenhandyman
08-26-2005, 10:09 PM
I gotta agree with you guys. This guy might not of gone about it the right way but I see so many young and some not so young kids that wouldn't know what work was if it bit'em in the azz. It always amazes me when I get another residential were they "just don't have the time" anymore. They have all the equipment in the garage, and a 12-18 year old in the house doing nothing. We are embarking on generation lazy. Good for business, bad for being able to find decent workers.


Yes, but don't put them out in the field on power equipment on someone else's property. Isn't their plenty of work back in the shop? If I had kids at home, I'd have the shiniest cleanest equipment around. My 6 year old grandson can't wait to help out so he helps in the shop. When he's 11 or 12 he ought to be able to tear a ztr down and put it back together. But not on customers property.

lawn_jockey
08-26-2005, 11:58 PM
The fella we are talking about was mowing the yard just 2 doors down from one of my clients. So being friendly I was gonna see if we could share a few trade tips and welcome him to the neighborhood.

I could tell he was a little off his rocker from the things he was saying . (Like BobbyGedd's Crossbread cousin)

There is nothing wrong with a kid this small getting some money from chores to buy a candybar or something, but first of all I bet he wasn't earning a wage more than 10bucks a day from dear old dad. And secondly just let kids be kids.. They have plenty of time to earn a paycheck when they are teenagers and want money for dates or CD's or whatever. But using a kid as permanent labor in a business is wrong.

PS. Driving a tractor at age 7 is not such a good idea.

MOlawnman
08-27-2005, 12:18 AM
I have personally put my 12 year old son to work in my business doing a variety of things. I have no reserves taking him on a commercial property with me as he is responsible and takes pride in his work. He does exactly what he is told and is always in sight. I pay him $6.50 per hour. I require him to save half of his wages from me in the bank and he may do whatever he wants with the rest.

The problem with parents and kids today is that they think that the kids should be babied and not made to do anything except what they want to do. I feel that I am giving him a VERY valuable life lesson that he will be able to put to use in the future. My wife and I believe that work ethic is somehow forgotten today.

Teach your kids responsibility, respect and right from wrong and they will be your best employees. Just think............at least you know that your kids are going to show up for work everyday and not have a myriad of personal problems that will keep them from not coming to work!!!!!

twj721
08-27-2005, 07:11 AM
[QUOTE=twindiddy]Amen! I have two that were born on the same day. It's by far the hardest thing I've ever done.




DON'T YOU MEAN HARDEST THING YOUR WIFE HAS DONE AFTER ALL SHE WAS THE ONE IN LABOR AND GIVING BIRTH COME ON GIVE HER THE CREDIT SHE WORKED HARDER THAN YOU DID THAT DAY. YES OR NO ?


LOL

twj721
08-27-2005, 07:22 AM
NEVER HURT ME we had a small truck farm and I was always helping out my Grandad either mowing or plowing then when winter time come around we cut firewood dad didnot let me use chain saw till I was 15 years old but that was about the only thing that was off limits to me of coarse back then most of us kids all had a father figure in the house and really tried to do right 1st out of respect but 2nd because you knew he would beat the crap out of you in a heart beat if you sassed him or was disrespectvile something that some kids now days do not understand the mean of RESPECT !!!!!!!!
I did not always agree with mu dad but he did teach me not to be afarid to work something that is like a foreign lanuage to kids now days you say work to one today and they just look at you like you are total out of your mind

MBDiagMan
08-27-2005, 07:30 AM
lawn jockey said: "PS. Driving a tractor at age 7 is not such a good idea."

No one told my Grand Dad that. I drove a John Deere A when I was eight to rake hay. I was so small that I couldn't handle the hand clutch but I knew how to kill the tractor if necessary, which it never was. My Grand Dad handled the clutch to get it going and then I took over. It might sound like fun and it was at first, but after several hours it was a real challenge to stay with it, but I learned to stay with it. I think that it was a great lesson of life that I learned on that ol' poppin' Johnny, and I appreciate my Grand Dad very much for having me do it.

It was HOT when we baled hay and baling hay has to be done in the heat of the day, and just like the old rotary mowers that I used as a kid, there was not one single thing on that old tractor that could be considered by any stretch of the imagination to be a safety device. The safety devices we had then were PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY and common sense.

My Grand Dad also had me shooting a .410 shotgun and a twenty two by that age, but just like learning to run the tractor, he taught me how to do it all safely and responsibly. To this day I believe that I have the best gun safety and machinery safety habits that one can have. Had I not been taught such things at an early impressionable age such habits might not be so deeply ingrained in my reflexes.

Isn't it amazing that I'm still alive?

Have a great day,
Doc

twj721
08-27-2005, 07:46 AM
Had I not been taught such things at an early impressionable age such habits might not be so deeply ingrained in my reflexes.

Isn't it amazing that I'm still alive?

Have a great day,
Doc9QUOTE


DO you think that common sense has a lot to do with the reason we are still alive beside the GRACE OF THE GOOD LORD
We as kids did some crazy stuff but kids now days some of them do not have a clue as to what commonsense is.
I know I deal with about 35-40 of them 180 days out of a years not just once a day but twice a day morning and afternoon

fcl01
08-27-2005, 08:53 AM
before people get the wrong idea, im all for putting kids to work. kids need to learn responsibility and basic life skills.

however, make them work at home. a client who is paying you good money to do a proffessional job for them does not want to see a 10 yr. old kid doing the work. i sure as he11 wouldnt! :angry:

yes, kids these days are increasingly lazy, they do need to be taught good work ethics.

but, if i was a client of this guy, i would certainly tell him that he can teach his little kids on his own dime, im paying for a proffessional!!!!!!! :waving:

MBDiagMan
08-27-2005, 10:27 AM
fc101,

I do agree that if you are paying full, professional LCO price, your yard should not be done by 10 year olds.

My point throughout this thread has been more toward the fact that hot, sweaty work is good for kids. Those that think it is horrible to see a 10 year old sweat is headed for some tough years while their kids are teenagers and young adults.

Have a great day,
Doc

topsites
08-27-2005, 10:41 AM
I was reading and re-reading your post trying to figure out what the big deal is. I didn't understand what your problem with this guy was. But then I finally figured it out. And you're right! I can't believe it! That's just stupid.

Two kids born within a year of one another? That's just asking for trouble. The sleepless nights alone in those early years would do most people in. Obviously this guy shows questionable judgement. I wouldn't want him working for me either. Everyone knows if you wanna keep your sanity you should space kids out by at least 2-3 years.

:p

You're sick, LOL !

topsites
08-27-2005, 10:43 AM
I'm sorry, but I still don't get it. When I was 9 I was mowing lawns with a push, rotary mower in the DFW area heat, and did quite a few yards some of them being blocks away and yes I did plenty of them at 3PM. It didn't do me any harm.

I do think that the guy should have been truthful in the reason he was firing the LCO instead of saying that it was because he didn't like the workers.

Have a great day,
Doc

It's AGAINST THE LAW lol omg...

It's one thing if you take it upon yourself to do it OR if your parents get you to cut THEIR yard then I think is no prob but you can NOT hire your sons to work for you in your own business, that violates child labor laws.

topsites
08-27-2005, 10:46 AM
These laws typically do not apply to farmers or family businesses.

Family businesses YES because otherwise we'd have pandemonium and THIS is the reason child labor laws were enacted just as much as hiring ANY kid it pertains specifically to your OWN.

But you brought up a good point, grass-cutting falls under agricultural and is thus somewhat the same as farming and in THAT case the law may not apply for child labor still there is the issue of a minor running power equipment.

topsites
08-27-2005, 10:48 AM
Any homeowner or business owner would have to be an utter moron to hire a 10 year old child (other than their own) to mow their lawn.

Its not necessary. If you want to make a 10 year old sweat, there are plenty of other ways to do it.

You have to be pretty damned sure the kid isn't going to lose a finger or a toe (on your insurance).

Excuse me, but how is it any BETTER to hire your OWN rather than someone else's? To be honest I think it's downright CRUEL that people think it's ok to do it so long they're your kids.

topsites
08-27-2005, 10:51 AM
Yes, but don't put them out in the field on power equipment on someone else's property. Isn't their plenty of work back in the shop? If I had kids at home, I'd have the shiniest cleanest equipment around. My 6 year old grandson can't wait to help out so he helps in the shop. When he's 11 or 12 he ought to be able to tear a ztr down and put it back together. But not on customers property.

Now I'm cool with that, also if the kids WANT to work, heck...

DUSTYCEDAR
08-27-2005, 11:22 AM
a tired kid is a good kid they tend to not give u as much trouble.
a kid that sleeps till noon and plays games all day will be a real pain in the azz always gettin in trouble due to haveing to much engery.
we have lots of day camps in my area and they r full of the little ones so mommy dont have to deal with them.
when i was little i had to mow the family land and take care of the garden and such did i get pain no it was part of haveing a roof over my head.
most of the kids today dont even know how to start a lawn mower and the only weed they know how to pull goes in a bowl.

sildoc
08-27-2005, 12:12 PM
These laws typically do not apply to farmers or family businesses.
Very true. Many of mom and pop restaurants use their kids in some form, from age 6 and up.

mowmasteruk
08-27-2005, 12:44 PM
If you had kids using machinery in your business here in England you would very quickly find yourself in big trouble, firstly with the Health & Safety Executive who would have your business closed down, and secondly you would probably be accused of child abuse and exploitation and they would try and take your kids away. Employing kids to mow other people's lawns for money are a big no-no here.

MBDiagMan
08-27-2005, 01:18 PM
This is the most educational thread that I have monitored in a very long time. I am now learning that I was an abused child. I had very loving parents and Grandparents so I never knew that I was abused.

It's really difficult for me to understand how work is abuse so I'm also learning that I'm too dumb to understand that work is abuse. I guess I've been abused most every day of my life since I was about 7 or 8. and I just didn't know it. Does this mean that now I can take my parents to court for abuse. Since my wife wouldn't put up with me not working, maybe I can sue her for abuse also.

Unbelievable.

Have a great day,
Doc

Kelly's Landscaping
08-27-2005, 02:12 PM
Scared me for a sec there the title had my name I was like now whose firing me and what did I do this time. :D

JimLewis
08-27-2005, 03:13 PM
You're sick, LOL !


Hehe. I am glad someone got it. I think the humor of my post went right by most people here. I don't think most people understood I was being funny.

poudre_lawn
08-27-2005, 05:51 PM
If you had kids using machinery in your business here in England you would very quickly find yourself in big trouble, firstly with the Health & Safety Executive who would have your business closed down, and secondly you would probably be accused of child abuse and exploitation and they would try and take your kids away. Employing kids to mow other people's lawns for money are a big no-no here.

All I can say is that I sure am glad I dont live in England !

JimLewis
08-27-2005, 06:51 PM
If you had kids using machinery in your business here in England you would very quickly find yourself in big trouble, firstly with the Health & Safety Executive who would have your business closed down, and secondly you would probably be accused of child abuse and exploitation and they would try and take your kids away. Employing kids to mow other people's lawns for money are a big no-no here.

Riiiiiiiight. And how's that over-restrictive bureaucratic economic system working for you guys over there? I'm just trying to think of the last time I purchased or even saw something that said "Made in the U.K."......hmmm.....yah..... Nothing coming to mind.

fcl01
08-27-2005, 06:58 PM
Riiiiiiiight. And how's that over-restrictive bureaucratic economic system working for you guys over there? I'm just trying to think of the last time I purchased or even saw something that said "Made in the U.K."......hmmm.....yah..... Nothing coming to mind.



LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!

fcl01
08-27-2005, 07:10 PM
This is the most educational thread that I have monitored in a very long time. I am now learning that I was an abused child. I had very loving parents and Grandparents so I never knew that I was abused.

It's really difficult for me to understand how work is abuse so I'm also learning that I'm too dumb to understand that work is abuse. I guess I've been abused most every day of my life since I was about 7 or 8. and I just didn't know it. Does this mean that now I can take my parents to court for abuse. Since my wife wouldn't put up with me not working, maybe I can sue her for abuse also.

Unbelievable.

Have a great day,
Doc

Doc
LOL! maybe abused people like us should call up Dr. Phil and see if he can help us.

NAH, all we need to do is gain 100 lbs., lose our good work ethic, and play video games and that should make us better!!!!

i feel so violated!!!!!!!!!! :p

mcclureandson
08-27-2005, 08:16 PM
I have a son (still just 2 1/2 years old) and you can bet he'll be doing plenty of work around MY house and yard when he's older...but I would never slap a company shirt on him to do maintenance stops. IMO it's important kids learn the value of hard work...but's it's also ridiculous to run a legitimate business with children as 'employees'...do these homeowners know their LCO is using under-age workers? Does their homeowner's insurance know? I would lose alot of customers very quickly if I showed up with anything other than uniformed, ADULT workers...

stumper1620
08-27-2005, 08:51 PM
My 14 year old mows a couple of my largest lawns with me, he cuts the rough areas that I don't want my Z in, does a great job, has learned pattern mowing, watches for disease, informs me about dry areas, and my customers like him very much, we weed together & he gets spending money for his paint ball habit, 10% gets invested every month & I'm proud of him. He is catching on to the business very well, studies my books & I believe he will be able to take over the business when the time comes.
If you don't like this, try telling him he can't do that.

Evergreenpros
08-27-2005, 09:14 PM
I don't see what the big deal it. His kids will probably grow up with an awesome work ethic. What else are they supposed to do? Sit around and play playstation and get fat? Get in trouble?

I started driving grain trucks on our family farm when I was 9 and did all the truck driving when I was 11 and beyond. I worked all the time in the summer but also had time to play. A hard day's work? It's the norm since I was a kid. Playtime? Absolutely, when the work is done.

And everyone wonders why they can't find anyone willing to work, they were never taught how!!!!!!! LOL

Those 2 kids will probably be extremely successful in life. Better than the pantywaist playstation wimps people are raising now!!!!

Evergreenpros
08-27-2005, 09:20 PM
This is the most educational thread that I have monitored in a very long time. I am now learning that I was an abused child. I had very loving parents and Grandparents so I never knew that I was abused.

It's really difficult for me to understand how work is abuse so I'm also learning that I'm too dumb to understand that work is abuse. I guess I've been abused most every day of my life since I was about 7 or 8. and I just didn't know it. Does this mean that now I can take my parents to court for abuse. Since my wife wouldn't put up with me not working, maybe I can sue her for abuse also.

Unbelievable.

Have a great day,
Doc


Actually they should have taught you how to sit around all day and do nothing and wait for your government check. THAT is the way they want you to raise your kids!!

Remember, we exist in SPITE of government and laws, not because of them.

Scotts' Yard Care
08-27-2005, 09:26 PM
I don't understand this constant bad mouthing of young people. Most of them I know are hardworking, considerate and courteous folks. In fact, I'd say I see a lot more inexcusable behavior from some so called adults.

mowmasteruk
08-28-2005, 05:46 AM
Riiiiiiiight. And how's that over-restrictive bureaucratic economic system working for you guys over there? I'm just trying to think of the last time I purchased or even saw something that said "Made in the U.K."......hmmm.....yah..... Nothing coming to mind.

You've got it in one Jim, we're totally tied up with 'red tape' and bureacracy in Britain by the European Union and a government that claims it wants to encourage small business. Like hell they do.

Precision
08-28-2005, 01:48 PM
HELLO...I know Texas WAS the WILD WILD WEST...but PLEASE! Don't you have CHILD LABOR LAWS THERE????? In Indiana, you can't have anyone under 16 running POWER EQUIPMENT. Man, you'd get put in jail here for that crap! I could see possibly trying to get away with on residentials, but it is pretty ballsy of him to try using them on a HOA or commercial sites. I guess HOA was just interested in LOW DOLLAR BID when they hired him. Doesn't sound like they bothered checking INSURANCE, because NO ONE would write insurance on someone using kids!

Mike
Child labor laws don't stop family from abusing familial slave labor, I mean using your kids to do the work.

If he was using his kids on the property I seriously doubt he had insurance. The guy doesn't seem to bright or knowledgable.

Precision
08-28-2005, 01:56 PM
Riiiiiiiight. And how's that over-restrictive bureaucratic economic system working for you guys over there? I'm just trying to think of the last time I purchased or even saw something that said "Made in the U.K."......hmmm.....yah..... Nothing coming to mind.
Jaguar, oh yeah that is owned by Ford. sorry please disregard.

Precision
08-28-2005, 02:00 PM
Kids should be made to earn their keep. Kids should be taught discipline and the discipline of working is a good step in that direction.

I use my ( (9year old)nephew to help me deliver flyers. Putting him behind a mower or other power equipment in my business. I seriously doubt I would ever be that crazy or drunk. If for no other reasons, the clients would drop me like a bad habit and the kid would never make it through an 8 hour day in Florida summer.

JimLewis
08-29-2005, 04:55 PM
Precision,

I am with you. I definitely want kids to learn the value or good hard work and get a good work ethic. By far, the vast majority of kids from 10-25 I meet have almost NO work ethich whatsoever. Would I send a 9 or 10 year old loose with a mower, no way. But I would let them do a few hours of good hard work if it was something that required a little less responsibility. You bet! And as they get older, the more hours they can handle and the more responsibility they can handle. But nothing wrong with good hard work. Looking back, I am glad I did it when I was young.

Precision
08-29-2005, 10:00 PM
Kinda strange that we have this thread and today, our school system had a holiday for teacher planning. All the kids are off and what do I see. Some guy (LCO) riding his hustler around a retention pond and his 11-13 year old son riding a walker around the top of the pond and the other flat areas of the common areas.

He was doing a good job, had on ear plugs, no eye protection or hat. But both times I went by all I could do was cringe. I couldn't even imagine what the residents were thinking as they drove past. Perhaps the kid was invisible like we so often are while working. But the drama and the insurance alone would keep me from being that LCO.

Precision
08-29-2005, 10:06 PM
Precision,

I am with you. I definitely want kids to learn the value or good hard work and get a good work ethic. By far, the vast majority of kids from 10-25 I meet have almost NO work ethich whatsoever. Would I send a 9 or 10 year old loose with a mower, no way. But I would let them do a few hours of good hard work if it was something that required a little less responsibility. You bet! And as they get older, the more hours they can handle and the more responsibility they can handle. But nothing wrong with good hard work. Looking back, I am glad I did it when I was young.
Jim,

now that isn't fair. They have work ethic, they asked for a job and showed up on time (well more or less) what else can you ask for.

I started working when I was 9-10. Paper route. Later mowed lawns in the neighborhood. When I was old enough to work for someone, I bagged groceries for $3.45 an hour with no tips allowed. I bought my own first car and paid my own insurance. I STILL own that car, '66 mustang, 20 years later (and yes for the wiseguys I have had many others and have 2 others now and a motorcycle).

There is something to be said for earning what you have and the only way to do that is to develop discipline and a work ethic early. BUT not with power tools.

Joe721
08-29-2005, 10:15 PM
If your a professional company no way you should let your son cut grass with you. Its very unprofessional and the customers are looking for professional adults, but on your own house sure you should let your 11-12 yr old mow your grass if he wants to. Or help you with landscaping around your OWN house. As long as the 10 11 12 year old has common sense and your supervising him he can't really get hurt by mowing your yard with a 21" WB. Im not saying let him use a 48" Rider just a small 21" mower. I started mowing lawns when I was 10 with a 21" and never got hurt. Supervision and common sense.

daveintoledo
08-29-2005, 10:35 PM
now im not being a smart guy, but that is a very mature thing for you to say, so how should the customer fell when you (at your age) come aroung the corner...

just an observation not bashing you

Brianslawn
08-29-2005, 11:32 PM
few weeks ago saw mexican with trimmer along worst intersection in town, had 4 year old running hand blower. blower was bigger than kid. kid was few feet from hwy. :nono:

ive known 10 year olds that were better workers than all the 20+ boys ive had! :dizzy: